Climate change blamed as thousands of walruses die in stampedes

[Barrett808]

Source: Associated Press

Climate change blamed as thousands of walruses die in stampedes
By DAN JOLING
The Associated Press

ANCHORAGE, Alaska — In what some scientists see as another alarming consequence of global warming, thousands of Pacific walruses above the Arctic Circle were killed in stampedes earlier this year after the disappearance of sea ice caused them to crowd onto the shoreline in extraordinary numbers.

The deaths took place during the late summer and fall on the Russian side of the Bering Strait, which separates Alaska from Russia.

"It was a pretty sobering year — tough on walruses," said Joel Garlach-Miller, a walrus expert for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Unlike seals, walruses cannot swim indefinitely. The giant, tusked mammals typically clamber onto the sea ice to rest, or haul themselves onto land for just a few weeks at a time.

But ice disappeared in the Chukchi Sea this year because of warm summer weather, ocean currents and persistent eastern winds, Garlach-Miller said.

Read more: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004073403_webwalrus14.html

[aquart]

1. Now the walruses? The walruses????

[Rene]

62. What's the effect of the increase in ocean cruise liners and cargo ships....?

Do they cause excessive heat/discharge that affects the oceans temperature significantly; and nuclear plants output that discharge to the ocean....ours in CT appear to discharge water that's too hot.

All this polar melting seemed to start as the Alaskan cruise ships move in closer and closer to these ice fields...tourists 'had' to see the calving up close and now it's occurring significantly faster. I just saw a film about an adventure cruise that was cutting thru and breaking open lanes in the ice....how good can that be for the integrity of the ice cap.

Most communities now channel their sewer treatment thru the fastest water route that makes it to the ocean...water warmer than it should be.

All this can't be good for overall ocean temperatures.

I think the ice is melting from the temp of the water underneath and around....rather that the air above.

[Toots]

65. That is funny

There used to be ice there and no ships could go there. The ice melts and the ships start going there and now you blame the ships for melting the ice...:rofl: This is pretty close to Republican Logic..

[IndyOp]

2. 5-7 years until polar ice disappears in summer = extinction in the wildnerness

for walruses, polar bears, and many more...

FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS UNTIL POLAR ICE CAP DISAPPEARS IN SUMMER

[Barrett808]

4. Yes, these kinds of stories make me glad I don't have any children

I'd hate to have to explain these things to them.

[kestrel91316]

11. Me, too. It's sad enough and difficult enough discussing it with my

age 20 and 23 nephew and niece.

When I was their age, the world seemed like it was only gonna get better. Now they have a world that seems like it's only gonna get worse.

[defendandprotect]

20. Are they aware of Global Warming --- ??

[kestrel91316]

66. Very much so. Very socially and environmentally aware, and

good left-leaning Dems all the way. My sis and BIL are the same, and raised them right.

[defendandprotect]

75. Here's the thing . . ..

I realized what was happening 20 years ago and my kids grew up knowing what was going on--
but now I think they resent it ---

[Lorien]

81. You and me both. I would have loved to have had kids, but I couldn't

bear knowing what kinds of hell awaited them as they grew older. Sometimes I wonder if children born today will live to see 30. :cry:

[Gman]

16. About the only way to avoid this is if we 100% stopped carbon emissions today

which will not happen. The destiny of those species that need polar ice to survive is now sealed. Realistically, nothing can change that at this late date.

[defendandprotect]

23. The only way to do it is to nationalize oil and put all ELECTRIC CARS on the roads in 5 yrs....

We could subsidize both ends of this -- the manufacture of the cars and
the purchase of them ---

And in 5 years have all gas-guzzlers off the roads --

The thing you have to remember is that there's a 50 year delay in GW...
So we're now only up to feeling the effects of our behavior up to 1957 . . .

People are again quesitoning what effect nuclear testing and bombing may also have
had in creating GW . . .

Protests, if there are to be any meaningful ones, have to center on our consumer products --- use the car to protest --- pull it over --- everyone together for a period of time --
15 mins/half hour --- by curb or parking lot --- tap signal, everone moves on again.

Same way with other products --- stop buying bottled water --
keep $ out of the hands of corporations as much as possible.
Of course, the war is a big $$ maker for many warprofiteering corps.

Also, Australia has a "lights out" campaign for environment ---
Everyone puts their lights out for a period of time as a demonstration --

There has to be a "click" --- that requires a bit of leadership and a few voices ---

[losthills]

37. Your thinking is right on target.

[defendandprotect]

49. And . . .

you keep moving that concept from product to product to see what you can do with it ---

Let me also recommend something that does harm to the planet and would be a very effective
move on the culture, on violence, and on corporates --

Vegetarianism

would make a huge impact --- a huge statement --

and be a tremendous help to the planet.

[and-justice-for-all]

38. the EV-1 would have been the life saver...nt

[defendandprotect]

50. That's . . . "Who Killed The Electric Car?" .. . right? GREAT MOVIE ---

Everyone should see it --
Are you from California?

[and-justice-for-all]

60. Nope...

Im in/from Indiana...That film shows that the auto/oil industry, along with fuckhead bush..FUCKED US ALL.

[defendandprotect]

71. You know, FDR was going to nationalize our oil --- but he asked LBJ what he thought --- !!!

[leaninglib]

63. An electric F-150 or SUV...? Yeah, that ought to work.

[piedmont]

84. Yes, it would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV#Performance

[leaninglib]

85. That link is for a Ranger, not an F-150.

And the range is only 65 miles to a charge; then you must wait 6-8 hours for a re-charge. Moreover, at cost of $50,000, this little truck is very expensive golf cart.

[piedmont]

87. The difference is only a matter of size. Making a bigger motor is no problem...

and with some investment in r&d, the battery technology will improve.

[0007]

64. I agree and will make one addendum on the time frame. Three years

instead of five.

We are now at that point!

[defendandprotect]

72. Wow!! Someone ahead of me --- and I agree on the time ....

We'd probably have to raise a corp to do this because I kinda get the idea that Detroit is actually not working to make cars but working for the oil industry to make gas-guzzlers!!

[IndyOp]

25. We have to suck the carbon out of the atmosphere...

and you are probably right that the fate of such species is already sealed. Still we must react as if we have half a chance of saving them in order to have any chance of saving enough ecological diversity to keep this planet recognizable.

[Barrett808]

27. One estimate says we have to remove 350 gigatons of carbon...

...to return to 1950s levels of radiative forcing.

[defendandprotect]

74. There was a lot of talk in Britian about petro and airplanes . . .

don't think that discussion reached here ---
but unless it was on KO, I don't see it.

[defendandprotect]

76. Gigaton = 1 BILLION TONS ---

X350 -

350 Billion tons . . .

hmmm.....

[Barrett808]

80. Yup. That's a lot of carbon

Probably a mountain range worth. We'd better get on it...

[defendandprotect]

73. Obviously, even up to just 1957, we had already created an immense problem . . .

and I say that cause there is a 50 year delay in the effects we feel ---
so you can imagine where we'll be shortly as we hit post-1957!!!

Unfortunately, the carbon isn't simply in the atmosphere --- it's in our trees,
in our soil -- and it's presence distorts nature. Trees are dying because of the
industrial revolution --- they knew this is the mid-1880's and possibly before that.

Mother Nature didn't intend for us to be industrious --- !!!

Life is about pleasure ---

but not for almost 7 billion of us!!

[defendandprotect]

19. Yeah . . . but look at all we've gotten for that trade off of nature --- !!!

We've gotten to run around in cars -- keep gas stations and mechanics in business --
go to malls and shop ---
Live in suburbs ---

Fill houses with all kinds of goodies --

:sarcasm:

What we lost was immense ---
true freedom --
probably soon death of our own species ---
and the planet . .. possibly!

[elocs]

30. Driving our cars whenever we want, going wherever we want,

that's the whole point of things like ethanol. We're hooked on our drug of choice, oil, and we want any drug that will allow us to maintain our current type of lifestyle and high with a minimum of changes instead of altering the whole dynamic. We'll do anything, anything, as long as it allows us to continue driving, driving, driving.

[wundermaus]

42. Global Warming "Tipping Points" Reached, Scientist Says

"Earth has already crossed a number of climate change "tipping points" at which today's levels of greenhouse gases will cause additional large and rapid changes, a leading climate scientist said yesterday."

- http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/071214-tipping-points.html

[AllieB]

3. Sigh.

:cry:

How can the US continue to do nothing?

[lonestarnot]

5. ahhh poor things.

Look what we've done.

[Kurovski]

6. K&R. (nt)

[scarletwoman]

7. This is just heartbreaking...

I never expected to be alive for planetary mass deaths. It used to be the stuff of science fiction -- imaginings of dystopia, sometime in the far future.

What have we wrought?

:cry:
sw

[Barrett808]

13. Yup, looks like Soylent Green was the most prescient dystopian prediction in cinema

"The oceans -- they're dying!" -- Charlton Heston

[Barrett808]

15. Get used to it -- this is just the beginning

Wait until the real mass deaths get going...including mass migrations of millions of humans fleeing climate change...

Ooh, I'm feeling particularly gloomy today!

[balantz]

8. Here's a mantra we should chant from someone who cared:

Everybody now!

"I am the walrus"

[immoderate]

9. We're all walruses...

--IMM

[nam78_two]

10. K&R :-(.nt

[laylah]

12. What can I say...

so very, very sad :cry: I remember platypus's went extinct in my time. A sad thing for all living things.

[geomon666]

14. Platypus' went extinct?

That's news to me. I thought it was a protected species and not under immediate threat.

[DRoseDARs]

22. Platypus extinct? Er, not so much...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platypus

Conservation status

Except for its loss from the state of South Australia, the Platypus occupies the same general distribution as it did prior to European settlement of Australia. However, local changes and fragmentation of distribution due to human modification of its habitat are documented. Its current and historical abundance, however, is less well known and it has probably declined in numbers, although still being considered as common over most of its current range.

[humbled_opinion]

33. Platypus, Platypi... It doesn't matter... I total understand your

Frustration maybe you meant the Baiji (Chinese Freshwater Dolphin) the point is things are becoming extinct because Man is killing the planet.

[laylah]

59. I stand corrected...

I have always been under the impression it was the platypus but obviously, that childhood impression was wrong :blush:

[katty]

17. very sad

[TomInTib]

18. My girlfriend's family lives North of the Circle (Norway)

They are a nomadic family of reindeer herders, living in skin huts and living the same life they have led for countless generations, very traditional. But this is the end of that kind of life.

The stories they tell will make you weep.

[IndyOp]

36. Tom - Can you write the stories down & post them?

It is so, so important for us to hear the indigenous people right now.

:(

[TomInTib]

39. I will try to get Torrild to write some of them.

Problem is, she cannot spell worth a shit.

"Torrild", in Laplander, means Goddess of Thunder. And she is every bit of that.

You would just not believe the history of these people and the hardships that they are suffering. And they are totally unprepared.

[IndyOp]

41. She could talk and you could type - or - videotape her telling her stories

and post them on Youtube. The only way that people will take the necessary action is when we feel as if we intimately know the people whose lives are being devastated now. I think it was Gandhi who said that the world will truly be one when we feel the death of a child in India as acutely as we feel the death of a child in our own town - we've got to make the people's of the world more interconnected, quickly!

[peacetalksforall]

21. We lost seven years on the future of the walruses and us because

of the profiteers who get deniers and politicians to do their bidding. Weren't the first two acts of Cheney-Bush related to canceling environmental agreements? And the third was setting up plans to own Iraq and its oil with their energy folks?

[Peregrine Took]

24. We need photos - that's the only way to communicate with the non-reading

public. Tons of photos and the more graphic the better. Ordinary people won't believe this is happening until they see it with their own eyes.

[Catherine Vincent]

29. I agree.

That's the only thing that would get their attention.

[Maestro]

26. Very disheartening

We must protect these animals. To those lurking freepers and global warming apologists who are saying they are just animals, we must show our children that we respect all life, especially the life of such mammals as the walrus. And to those that say mass extinctions are a normal cyclical event that has occurred for millenia, I agree but the difference is how responsible we are for this because of our unbridled use of fossil fuels! There is a huge difference. We must act!

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

28. I just rented and watched "Arctic Tale" from Blockbuster tonight...

... and it's terribly sad what global warming is doing to arctic wildlife. Polar bears and walrus are going to face massive die offs.

[defendandprotect]

51. Was that recently in movie theaters --- ?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

58. It probably was...

...I don't see movies at theaters much anymore -- I'm not sure how widely it was distributed:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0488508/

Here's the trailer:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-xNclqD6Br4&feature=related

It was well done.

[defendandprotect]

77. Thanks -- I probably go to two movies a year --- sometimes one if there's no MM movie!!!

[navarth]

31. The Fucking Horror of it

Once again,

I experience an overwhelming feeling of utter shame. We sin against nature so horribly; I ask myself on a regular basis: does humanity even deserve to survive anymore? If we still do, how far do we go until we don't deserve to survive? Are we there already? If not, how close are we?

It's a question that I have to answer for myself over and over. Shame on us. All of us. Shame. Our unsustainable lifestyle makes murderers of us all.

The Polar Bears, Walruses, the disappearing wilderness, the dead deer on the side of the freeway...they all feel to me like Man has committed one more sin against nature.

What's America's responsibility in all this? We should be setting an example of ingenuity, courage, sacrifice, foresightedness....what are the chances us doing that?

[humbled_opinion]

34. NONE...

With our current batch of inept politicians running this country and the world into corporate chaos... Facism eists as expansion of the corporate world and its dominance on pepople it cares little about its effect on the environment and then someday they wake to realize that the damage that has been done cannot be undone and the earth begins to rot and humanity follows like a necrosis of our souls...

I too want no part of that kind of future..

[defendandprotect]

52. Yes, it is us -- however, people knew about this when JF K was president . . .

we began to move and could have responded ---

And, what followed was really, IMO, an oil industry led conspiracy to keep the public in the dark -- so that those few could continue to profit from what is our natural resource.

We should nationalize oil now --

Btw, the Democratic Platform which JFK ran on called for the nationalizing of the
US oil industry ---


And, ExxonMobil --- still now alone, mainly --- but over decades coupled with BP and others ran a propaganda campaign --- of tens of millions of dollars --- in order to deny, lie,
distort GW information and keep public dumb --- and govt non-responding.

[jeff30997]

32. We're hooked on oil man...We're hooked on oil man...

We kill the walrus,
goo goo g'joob, goo goo goo g'joob, goo goo g'joob, goo goo goo g'joob, goo goo

I'm crying.
I'm cry------------ing, I'm crying....

:puke:

[zonkers]

35. We have to constuct giant floats for them to rest. It's the only thing to do, right?

[NYC]

40. Sounds like an excellent idea.

I hope you are right.

[defendandprotect]

53. It's so obvious what you're saying . . . yet, is anyone even trying to help them?

[Aviation Pro]

43. Farewell, Goo-Goo-Gajoob....

....hopefully this walrus was part of the stampede.

[defendandprotect]

54. There's a sociopath if I ever saw one ---

[ihavenobias]

44. I was debating a conservative today

on global warming. He managed to rip on Al Gore (for not going far enough) and at the time rip on those who want to go too far.

This was my response:

That's another fictional lose-lose situation I've seen presented by those that deny man-made global warming.

Let's see...on the one hand you have that damn hypocrite Al Gore, who *talks* tough about global warming but lives in a BIG house, sometimes eats meat, and flies in planes.

We should ignore the science he presents because he hasn't transformed into a luddite hermit.

On the OTHER hand, we should also ignore global warming promoters because they apparently want all of us to eliminate any and all modern conveniences to become cave dwellers that ride around on horses (aka, luddites).

In other words, yet another false dichotomty, i.e. we either do NOTHING about global warming OR we go all out and live in caves and eat grubs and berries.

[MilesColtrane]

45. On the plus side...

...we won't have Dennis Hastert around anymore.

[Kool Kitty]

46. Isn't it bad enough that

the walruses are facing extinction, must they also be insulted? ;)

[danhan]

47. The problem

I am going to get flamed here for this especially because I don't often post and people think you must not care if you don't post all the time. However, I have been on here almost every day for a year and a half. I just choose not to engage so much.

That being said, I believe that Al Gore is the biggest fucking hypocrite that ever walked the planet. When he starts showing up on a horse for his $100,000 speaking engagements I might start taking him seriously.

If we all stopped driving cars or every country followed the Kyoto treaty to reduce carbon emmissions it would make no measurable difference in global warming. All it would take is one belch from a volcano, (not even an eruption) to negate anything that humans could do to reduce carbon emmisions.

We need real fucking solutions to this. Not all this jack jawed political "oh my god we're gonna die" crap.

[ihavenobias]

48. We're all gonna die crap?

I missed that part, but then again I saw Inconvenient Truth in the theater. I guess the crap you're referring to is on the director's cut DVD.

As for action: http://www.climatecrisis.net/takeaction/

If your nutritionist/doctor was grossly obese (but had a PhD in nutrition and biochemistry) and admitted he didn't follow his own advice, would you ignore him if he told you how to eat and exercise to look and feel better and live longer (assuming you wanted to achieve those goals)?

In other words, I care about the quality of the information in this case, not the personal habits of the messenger. I realize the quality of the messenger IS more important in some cases, like if you're a church leader preaching about homosexuality or something (because he/she is a *moral* authority rather than a scientific authority).

But this is about science, and you can look past the messenger (and read the message for yourself, as written by scientists). If the scientists drive giant SUV's and ride around in private jets, so what, maybe they're lazy and selfish (a lot of people know how they *should* behave but choose not to)...does that really give me an excuse to contribute to potentially screwing the planet for myself and future generations?

Don't get me wrong, blatant hypocrisy is a bad thing and people should expect to take their lumps for it.

But *unless* these people move into caves, they won't meet the ridiculous, luddite-like requirements that would satisfy the incredibly (and often intentionally) unrealistic expectations of some.

[defendandprotect]

56. What Gore needs to do is suggest we nationalize oil and put all ELECTRIC CARS on our roads --- !!

lightbulbs ain't gonna do it, folks!

We can subsidize both ends --- mfg and purchase ---

THAT would make a difference ---

And if you truly care about the planet --- go Veggie --- Vegan if you can ---

[defendandprotect]

57. What Gore needs to do is suggest we nationalize oil and put all ELECTRIC CARS on our roads --- !!

lightbulbs ain't gonna do it, folks!

We can subsidize both ends --- mfg and purchase ---

THAT would make a difference ---

And if you truly care about the planet --- go Veggie --- Vegan if you can ---

[ohio2007]

68. electric cars run on nationalized oil ?

how about nationalize the auto industry and build electric cars for export to China?

lol

[defendandprotect]

78. How about nationalizing ALL our natural resources and taking them back from the few who profit?

Who have propagandized over decades lying about GW ---

and heavens knows what else they've done --

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. No, volcanic carbon dioxide is dwarfed by human emissions

Carbon dioxide is abundant in volcanic gases, but not enough to significantly contribute to the greenhouse effect. Volcanoes contribute about 110 million tons of carbon dioxide per year while man's activities contribute about 10 billion tons per year.

http://volcanology.geol.ucsb.edu/gas.htm

[NickB79]

69. Not only that, but volcanic dust and soot usuually COOLS the atmosphere

The warming effects of the relatively small amount of CO2 released by volcanoes is outweighed by the cooling effects associated with the injection of dust into the atmosphere, blocking solar radiation from reaching the ground.

[hatrack]

86. I can see why you "choose not to engage so much"

Here's a clue-bus ticket especially for you!

http://www.realclimate.org

[defendandprotect]

55. What it takes to get the news to them that their not-man-made issue is dead is hard to figure!!!

I just had a go round with a really weird new relative by marriage!!!

[Lorien]

82. That's the kind of B.S. you get from anyone who doesn't want to

seriously deal with an issue. They try to kill the debate with extremes, making the debate itself look absurd. Look at the Edwards big house debate; many people engaged in that one stated that the choice was between living in a 28,000 sq ft. mansion OR living in a one room shack with an outhouse. No middle ground. We all need to do what we CAN do, and Gore is doing that as well.His home is now one of the greenest in TN. Asking people to live in caves and eat berries is completely illogical and thus he's trying to make the other side look like utter fools. We need to keep hammering away at these people with the facts: giving tax breaks to people who buy Hummers and corporations who send our jobs to eco-unfriendly countries like China is killing us faster.Real solutions exist, but the political will to implement them is still lacking. The sick part of it all is that making the necessary changes would help every American to live better in the end, but the big corporations aren't willing to sacrifice short term profits for them.

[ohio2007]

67. (meanwhile) Passenger jet lands on ice runway in Antarctica

one small step for scientists

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=979_1197616395

One giant leap to make it a profitable venture......

oh, but they will only be "eco tourists" ;)

[MilesColtrane]

70. Santa's relocating before his workshop melts into the sea. n/t

[cloudythescribbler]

79. So WHO is going to push for net NEGATIVE CO2 emissions????

In addition to curbing virtually all industrial based CO2 emissions, humanity needs to INCREASE the total forestation of the planet and build a huge number of giant filters to filter out greenhouse gases from the atmosphere

And we need to do this LONG before 2050!

HMMMMM????

[humus]

83. Bring It All Back Home

"A few years ago, in the mail-order catalog Seeds of Change, Peter
Bahouth provided an ecological accounting of the typical North
American supermarket-bought tomato. Here's an abbreviated version:
The tomato was grown in Mexico from a hybrid seed patented by a
genetic-engineering firm. The farm was fumigated with methyl-
bromide, one of the most ozone-depleting chemicals in existence, the
doused with toxic pesticides; the toxic byproducts of manufacturing
the pesticide ended up in the world's largest toxic waste dump, in
Alabama. The tomato was packaged in a plastic tray covered with
plastic wrap, and placed on a cardboard box. The plastic was
manufactured with chlorine, a process that produces extremely toxic
byproducts, in Point Comfort, Texas, while the cardboard originated
in an old-growth forest in British Columbia, was manufactured in the
Great Lakes, and was then shipped to the Mexican farm. The entire
process was fueled by oil from the Gulf of Campeche, Mexico. The
packed tomatoes were artificially ripened through the application of
ethylene, then transported in refrigerated trucks cooled by ozone-
depleting hydrochlorofluorocarbons to consumers throughout North
America. At several points in the process, workers and nearby
residents risked potentially harmful health effects through exposure
to various toxins. And needless to say, a tomato thus produced
doesn't offer much in the way of flavor, especially when compared to
a mouth-watering `Brandywine' tomato grown organically in the
backyard."

To forget how to dig the earth and to tend the soil is to forget ourselves
-Mahatma Gandhi

[Rosie1223]

88. 'Walrus' and 'Stampede' -- 2 words I never thought I'd hear in the same sentence.

Global warming has all kinds of unexpected consequences.

[Uncle Joe]

89. Kicked, too late to recommend.

Thanks for the thread, Barrett.