Huckabee Questions Mormons' Belief

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Source: The Huffington Post

WASHINGTON — Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee, an ordained Southern Baptist minister, asks in an upcoming article, "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?"

The article, to be published in Sunday's New York Times Magazine, says Huckabee asked the question after saying he believes Mormonism is a religion but doesn't know much about it. His rival Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, is a member of the Mormon church, which is known officially as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The authoritative Encyclopedia of Mormonism, published in 1992, does not refer to Jesus and Satan as brothers. It speaks of Jesus as the son of God and of Satan as a fallen angel, which is a Biblical account.

A spokeswoman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said Huckabee's question is usually raised by those who wish to smear the Mormon faith rather than clarify doctrine.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071211/huckabee-mormons/

[terisan]

1. Are these sects going to have a religious war? Will there violence? nt

[grytpype]

4. God, I hope so.

I don't like it when the religious wackos band together and gang up on the seculars. I'd much rather watch them attack each other over their made-up bullshit.

:popcorn:

[YDogg]

7. Agreed. Let the holy wars begin.

:popcorn:

[terisan]

10. I would really like to see them duke it out (metaphorically). Tossing crazy doctrines at each other.

[WileEcoyote]

15. Let 'em eat their own young

Stand back to avoid the splatter. Better yet don't bother watching.

[insanad]

21. Buddy Jesus and Baddy Lucifer, blood brothers to the end

One only needs to look under the Mormon covers a little to find bizarre and silly doctrine. Here's just one of their kooky theories posed as scripture from none other than that big joker, GOD....(he speaks exclusively to Mormon men, especially the really horny pedophile ones)

http://ldsdoctrine.blogspot.com/2006/12/mormon-doctrine-on-adversary.html

There is pre-exile-OT teaching that supports the NT concept of Satan. Isaiah prophesies of the future destruction of Babylon by comparing it’s fall to the Fall of Lucifer from the heavenly council to Earth (who became Satan) and the eventual fall of Satan from Earth to Outer Darkness. Satan and the angels that follow him will not be joined with their mortal followers because through Christ, even the wicked will be resurrected (resurrection of just and unjust of those who kept their first estate). (See Isa. 14: 12-16).

John the Revelator continues the vision of Lucifer fall from Heaven during the Great War in Heaven, which continues on the Earth in which he draws “a third part” of our brothers and sisters with him. (See Rev. 12: 4).

I recognize that all this may be difficult to follow because there are quite a number of new concepts for non-LDS including: anti-mortal existence, heavenly council, Lucifer->Satan, War in Heaven, literal physical resurrection, ect.
Mormon Doctrine on Lucifer/Devil/Satan/Adversary:
1. He existed at the creation in the pre-mortal existance
2. He is a spirit son of God known as Lucifer "light bearer" or "son of the morning."
3. He was a member of the heavenly council
4. He opposed God's plan, the agency of Man, and the role of a Messiah
5. He wanted to take God's place
6. He drew "a third part" of our spirit brothers and sisters to his side
7. He instigated the "war in heaven"
8. He was overcome by the testimony of Jesus Christ
9. He was cast out of heaven to Earth with his angels and continues to attempt to frustrate the plan of God.
10. He is permitted by God to have some power which, in the end, serves God's purposes.
11. He is a personage of spirit, in the appearance of a man without a physical body.
12. He and his followers can place thoughts into our minds and exibits some ability to manipulate physical objects as we permit them.
13. Satan and his angels can possess us, or exibit control over us as we permit them.

[Acadia Blue]

28. This is why Romney did not get specific about his LDS. lol

[coalition_unwilling]

34. It has made my autumn and winter watching the lunatic fringes of

American theology at one another's throats. If Jesus has (had?) a sense of humor, I'm sure he's giggling hysterically. My wife has to tell me to stop my cackling while watching the news or reading the newspaper.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

6. Huckabee and Romney are like a gas can and a match...

...when the battle's taken to the area of faith, both of these guys hide behind it and neither of them will stand still while the other tosses mud.

And they are BOTH tossin'...

:popcorn:

[jwirr]

11. I hope so, it will be the biggest circus we have seen in years and

they will help us out in 08.

[TwilightGardener]

2. This is just a mean smear. I'm pretty sure Hucky knows all about Mormonism,

(having a theology degree and all), but probably asked this question with wide, innocent eyes. What a jerk.

[Critters2]

14. I have a theology degree, but I don't know all about Mormonism

In three short years, you can't become an expert on every religion.

[insanad]

22. Mormon Curtain.com will give you a good peek under the covers

Be careful, it's creepy but fairly harmless unless you're one of the devout trying to get out, then they will make your life a living hell and ostracize you, separate your children, and shut your business down.

[Acadia Blue]

29. Huck does, but most dumb Americans do not. lol

[LeftyMom]

35. As a general rule, more fundamentalist schools focus less on comparative religion and more on

conversion strategies. So he likely knows a few lines of attack every Mormon's heard eleventy billion times, and little else. Maybe not even that if he was trained someplace that doesn't have a lot of Mormons.

[journalist3072]

3. There's an occupation in Iraq to end, a mass murderer named Osama to be found, a housing crisis to

solve, health care to give to those without it, and people to feed. And he's talking about Mitt Romney's Mormom religion?

I love those kind of priorities in a presidential candidate. (insert sarcasim here)

Really, Romney's religion is no one's business but his own. I don't understand the hoopla over a Mormom running for President.

[Acadia Blue]

30. He is trying to take votes away from Rom, It could help us because

He won't win nationally. Lets cheer him on.

[customerserviceguy]

45. Agreed

Huckster is the weakest of the top tier of Repukes, any Democratic candidate (well, maybe not Mike Gravel) could beat him. In between the third of America that goes "Hallelujah" at every possible moment, and a third of American that doesn't give a fuck about religion, there is the middle third that does not want to be lectured by a preacher from the "bully pulpit".

[Spinzonner]

5. This could be interesting

:popcorn:

[madrchsod]

8. wow! old hucka is going old time religion on the mormon

i can see the fire and brimestone is a fallin`from the sky......:rofl:

[Skittles]

9. hilarious when one group starts questioning the beliefs of another

virgin birth and rising from the dead aren't kooky are they?

[gauguin57]

12. Just gimme that Old Time Religion...

It's good enough for me.

[daleo]

13. I would love to see a candidate's debate focus on these matters

What a hoot that would be.

[TrogL]

16. I checked with a Mormon

Jesus and the Devil being brothers was an early teaching that they have since backed away from.

[insanad]

23. Dang, I've been gone long enough the whole thing has changed

In my 37 years as a Morbot McMormon I remember that doctrine being preached from the pulpit all the time. NOw they've gone and changed it!! I wonder if it's like the rest of the LDS doctrine and history that seems to be quite fluid and changing as long as the public and members are pointing out the inconsistancies and fallacies and outright lies. Next thing you know they won't be "mormons" at all but members of a "Judeo Christian Sect". Oh yeah, Mitt Romney allready claimed that one. Well, mainstream or not, the people are nice, the doctrine is bullshit, and the mormon funeral potatoes are fabulous. You haven't lived till you've had those nice cheesy potatoes and ham and green jello with pears or shredded carrots in it. And Near-Beer. They know how to party!!!

[coalition_unwilling]

36. I actually like the idea of Jesus and Satan being 'brothers'. It has an

eastern yin-yang flavor to it. Too bad orthodox Christianity did not go for it, actually. The Oedipal implications between two brothers (one good, the other evil) in relation to pleasing or angering the ur-Father would give the religion some extra zing, imho.

[hedgehog]

40. I'm not certain that wasn't the belief of some Gnostic sects way back.

There is a reason some of the alternative gospels didn't make it into the big time.

[insanad]

48. Holy Joe and his Fabulous Comic Book Characters

If I was going to start my own religion based on a cavalcade of comic book style hero's and villains I'd do a little more research and plot work before I wrote a book, even with a seer stone or God whispering in my ear. The story is full of holes and inconsistencies, dead ends, and lots of other baloney, but if one reads it as a form of Saturday Morning Cartoon material, it works. This you tube cartoon displays what USED to be commonly taught when I was active. It simplifies and parodies it a bit, but isn't that far off of the actual doctrine or teachings in the church. Silly, Weird, Unbelievable??? Yes, but most Mormons are pretty harmless. They come at you like a bunch of toothless piranhas, gumming you to death but no real harm done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo&feature=related

[NoodleyAppendage]

17. A smarter question would be, "what's up with those Kinderhook Plates?"

For those curious, the Kinderhook Plates are the best prima facie evidence that Joseph Smith was a fraud. For more info, see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderhook_plates

[momster]

25. How Vigorously They Twist and Turn

trying so hard to justify Smith's erroneous (or completely pulled from thin air) translations of the Egyptian papryi Book of Abraham. They search for archeological references to their ancient American city and find zilch, coming up with a hundred reasons why they can't find any evidence. They claim Smith's 'revelations' are all real, but the people who claimed to have seen the 'golden plates' saw them in a vision while under Smith's influence. Once people accept b.s. as truth, there's not a thing you can do for 'em. They can only wake themselves up from their fantasies...

[davidinalameda]

18. Huckabee best be careful

he wouldn't want to piss off the Mormons

can you imagine him being the first Repug to lose Utah in modern times?

[comradebillyboy]

20. Mormonism is a wierd ass cult

but still no worse than those biblical literalist southern baptists. One reason I shed no tears when the holier than thou, bible thumping, Harold Ford jr lost his congressional race. I never saw how Ford was in any way superior to his putrid repuke opponent.

[PassingFair]

31. My eyes were dry as well.

:hi:

I DO like to see them (believers/worshippers in/of the supernatural) argue
about whose unprovable beliefs are crazier, though.

:crazy:

[L. Coyote]

19. If all the wingnut religious factions start dueling.....

[trashcanistanista]

24. This will not sit well with

the Morman flock and may, I say may, inadvertantly turn Utah blue!

[truthisfreedom]

26. Is someone making popcorn?

I was sure I smelled popcorn.

[OneBlueSky]

27. oh, goody . . . an internecine war in the Christian right . . .

I'll buy the beer, you bring the snacks . . .

[boricua79]

32. that's what I thought

that the Devil was simply a fallen angel who had tried to rebel against God, and was cast down to hell as his punishment, along with other fallen angels.

Romney can easily hammer Huckabee on his "women are supposed to submit to their husbands" beliefs.

[cliss]

33. (rubs hands together)

This oughta be good.

I hope each side drags out some REAL dirty laundry. I don't want mealy-mouthed stuff. Bring out the real damaging news.

[AlinPA]

37. Huckabee will get another move up in the polls. Religion is the republicans' main issue.

Being a "Christian" is a requirement.

[superconnected]

38. He needs to cite where Jesus and Satan are brothers.

I don't think that exists in the OT or the NT.

I have a feeling this is going to be fundy lore like the antichrist coming with 666 on him and the armageddon.

Edit: Revelations is usually interpreted as on of the apostles(or someone else attributed to him's) dream about the fall of Rome. Everything else is 20th century movie and fundy folklore.

[pegleg]

39. What this means is that Huckabee has no tolerance for those

who don't share his beliefs and that he would not be a president for all the people.

[Zynx]

46. Romney said something to the effect "If you are secular, you are un-American"

These guys are all nuts.

[hatrack]

41. Let the internecine war begin!

This was inevitable, and it will be messy.

[JBoy]

42. Huckabee's gonna say some things in the next few weeks

that will come back to bite him in the general, if he gets the nod. Get a camera and microphone on him 24/7.

[Justitia]

43. I still want clarification on whether the Garden of Eden is in Missouri....

I've been to Missouri, it sure didn't seem that idyllic.

And I am just waiting for the video of Huckster speaking in tongues or juggling some snakes.

I hope these two take it to the mat, LOL.

[insanad]

49. Backwater Swamp where Jesus will hold his big Second Coming Concert and book signing

The Mormons believe this little spit of land in NE Central Missouri will be the place where Jesus will come back for his second show. It's a pretty little hilly valley with some ratty old houses and a marker on the side of the road. If you're so inclined to make a buck, set up a booth in the summer when the bus loads of devout believers come by in big air conditioned busses to gaze and speculate about the various development possibilities of this place.

They're buying up property by the hectare in Missouri and marketing housing, condos, investment etc. to the Mc Mormons in preparation for the big shindig. Apparently it's going to happen soon so you'd better call the Church HQ for tickets.

The women have to grow their hair long because it was scripturally suggested that they'll get to wash his feet with their long flowing hair. I can just see it now, a line 20 miles long of Mc Mormon Morbot women with placid bowel movement faces and long stringy hair in funky little house on the prairie braids and funky frumpy dresses, all waiting their turn to wash Jesus's feet. He's sitting there with the General Authority Decietpuls lined up like Santa's Elves. The frumpy ladies come up one by one, swipe his water logged pruney feet with their long hair and he hands them a candy cane or Book of Mormon and says, "thank you for washing my feet with your long hair", NEXT,"thank you for washing my feet with your long hair", NEXT....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_times

http://www.ldspro.com/ldsgetaway/docs/ft/030509adam.asp

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/gardenofeden.htm

[bemildred]

44. Gee, I wonder what he thinks about Scientology? nt

[olddad56]

47. What about the notion that a person can be in touch with his/her...

spirituality without being a member of some nutcase religion like mormonism or christianity. A persons spirituality is and should be a very private matter, not unlike their sexuality.

In AA thy have a saying, "Religion is for people who don't want to go to hell, spirituality is for people who have been there".