Six people shot in Las Vegas

[trashcanistanista]

Source: KOVR (CBS )4PM News-Sacramento

Six people were shot at a bus stop in Las Vegas. Three of the victims appear to be juveniles. Breaking now.

No link yet.

[Bicoastal]

1. JESUS CHRIST!!!

What the hell is going on in this country?

[Bluebear]

3. I just got back from supermarket, there was this teenager in camoflauge pants...

kind of sullen looking as teens are wont to be...

I actually thought "please don't gun us all down". It's truly not the "islamofascists" I fear most.

[NickB79]

25. It could be that the camo pants were cheap surplus clothes

Maybe he was wearing camo because he couldn't afford to pay $30 per pair of jeans? Where I grew up (rural, central Minnesota), a lot of kids wore camo because we were all poor farm kids, and the local Army surplus store had cheap-yet-warm military clothes.

[theredpen]

89. Bus service in Vegas is pretty crappy.

Las Vegas is one of those cities where you only take the bus when you absolutely have to.

Edit: it appears that this was a SCHOOL bus stop, which changes the dynamic considerably.

[insanad]

46. This was 1/2 mile from my home. Vegas has all the same problems other large cities have.

LAS VEGAS -- Hospital officials said that only one teen remains in critical condition after six were shot during a bus stop shooting. One is still in serious condition while three have been upgraded to good condition and one male has been discharged from University Medical Center.

The shooting happened just before 2 p.m. Tuesday near Walnut and Alexander roads.

Students said they were exiting a school bus from Mojave High School when two teens shot six to 10 rounds at fellow riders. One girl and five boys were injured, two of whom were shot in the stomach and the rest in extremities.

The two students who were shot in the torso have been listed in critical condition, paramedics said. They did not say how the other four teens were doing, but all of them were receiving treatment at UMC within 30 minutes of the shooting, emergency crews said.


Police are still searching for the two shooters, but they have lifted lockdown orders on Cox Elementary.

Unconfirmed reports from students said the shooting may have resulted from a gang-related argument Monday on the same bus route.

Details in this story are still developing. Stay with FOX5 News or refresh fox5vegas.com for continual updates to this story.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. honestly, this is simply a start of our near future.

forget the bullshit employment figures. there is a hard class of totally unemployed, off the "official" record who also happen to have guns. Far larger than 4.7% of the population. FAR LARGER.

As society begins to collapse, mainly from Bush policies, the victims will begin to take things into their own hands.

[Brrrp]

16. This is the lumpenproletariat--the traditional shock troops of fascism.

[pokercat999]

72. Actually it's appears to be a continuation of the

neo-con policies laid down by ray gun and continued by every prez thereafter including our own savior billy boy clinton. Electing mrs clinton will just continue along the same path, imo. To be sure, there would be a LOT of rhetoric and maybe even a small pittance from the treasury siphoned off toward solving our real problems as stated in your post. But the real bucks, those lost billions turning into trillions will continue pouring into traitorous corporations coffers unabated.

[emilyg]

14. It's gone to hell.

[thepurpose]

2. WTF. Is this country just completely insane.

[thepurpose]

7. 6 students MSNBC is reporting no link yet.

[kestrel91316]

4. Drive-by? Gang related? In Los Angeles that's what it would be......

[Bluebear]

5. All the info I can find >>>>>

Six people were shot near a bus stop along Alexander Road at Walnut Road about 1:55 p.m. today. The victims were taken to University Medical Center. Two are believed to be in their late teens and the others are believed to be juveniles. One of the victims was a girl. Two of the male victims were reported to have been shot in the torso and the other victims were reported to have suffered less serious wounds.

http://www.lvrj.com/

[kestrel91316]

11. Kids. Wonder if they are black......

[slackmaster]

23. Which ones?

The shooters or the victims?

[kestrel91316]

42. If the victims are, I'm betting the shooters are too. Here in LA black-on-black

crime among juveniles is a problem. Happened just down the street from me at the local HS a few years ago, IIRC. Bunch of kids shot at while waiting for a bus after school.

[trashcanistanista]

6. Not sure.

Happened in broad daylight in a public place during commuter hours. Not a typical drive-by if that's what it was.

[trashcanistanista]

10. Update.

Gang task force is there. Police are swarming the North Las Vegas area now. 2 schools were put in lockdown. Six shot, 2 critically injured. They are either junior high or high school aged. All have been taken to the hospital. The gunman got away. They don't know if he was in a vehical or on foot.

[reggie the dog]

49. sounds typical to me

In Chicago people arrive in cars with no plates and shoot the fuck out of folks in broad daylight. I had students shot walking to school in the morning in broad daylight. The most cunning roll up on mountain bikes, shoot up a bunch of folks and take off down the alley way, no plates, bandana over face, but once they turn the corner they take off the bandana and they are just a "regular" kid on a bike. These shootings usually involve battles for lucrative turf to sell drugs (the closer to the expressway exit the better). Gangs and drugs are the biggest income source in many parts of the USA.

[Toots]

55. Typical in America only...

He could have just as easily used knives cause they kill too...

[reggie the dog]

58. classic

All in the Family line from Archie Bunker talking to his son in law the meathead about gun control. In response to figures about gun related deaths he says "would it make ya feel better if dey was all pushed outta winders...."

Knives do kill a lot of people too. In the UK most killings are knifings, not shootings.

[slackmaster]

15. It doesn't sound random

Probably gang-related.

[Bluebear]

18. 'Metro gang detectives are on the scene and investigating.'

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7482701

[kestrel91316]

43. I must be psychic.

[judaspriestess]

8. here is a link from one of the local stations

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7482701

[RamboLiberal]

12. From Fox5 News

Paramedics said that two of the six teens shot in a at a school bust stop shooting are in critical condition at University Medical Center.

The shooting happened just before 2 p.m. Tuesday near Walnut and Alexander roads.

Students said they were exiting a school bus from Mojave High School when two teens shot six to 10 rounds at fellow riders. One girl and five boys were injured, two of whom were shot the stomach and the rest in extremities.

The two students who were shot in the torso have been listed in critical condition, paramedics said. They did not say how the other four teens were doing, but all of them were receiving treatment at UMC within 30 minutes of the shooting, emergency crews said.

Police are still searching for the two shooters, but they have lifted lockdown orders on Cox Elementary.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/14825477/detail.html

[Arugula Latte]

13. This country is so fucked. Mass shootings are practically a daily occurence.

What a sick, sick country.

[superconnected]

21. Practically?

[coalition_unwilling]

64. Violence is as American as apple pie . . . and torture -n/t

[OKthatsIT]

86. MK-ULTRA/DARPA is releasing them, too.

Please research the projects used on abducted children, as well as cildren volunteered by their very dysfunctional families.

[theredpen]

90. Maybe we'll get to be like Iraq. Don't forget, Bush illegally seized power here, too. n/t

[crim son]

17. Kill the enemy. That's the shrub's message and it's getting through

loud and clear.

[onehandle]

19. Guns are cool! nt

[Junkdrawer]

26. Let's have MORE so every nut case can get a few at a moment's notice...

Can't have too many Guns!

[reggie the dog]

50. What do you propose???

Making guns illegal???? The drugs the gangs sell are illegal too but it is easier in many neighborhoods to buy crack, heroin, weed, and black market guns than it is to buy milk (you have to walk farther to get to the supermarket).

[progressivebydesign]

20. this is the result of a generation or two of kids that have no meaning in their lives..

on the whole they are not asked to help out at home, no family business to help out in, no elderly relatives to care for, no government to believe in, no parents at home, being driven thru fast-food places for dinner from an early age, teachers left incapable of disciplining them for fear of their inattentive yet ready-to-blame-everyone-but-their-children parents having them fired. A generation of kids that interact mostly on the internet and phones, not in person. A few generations raised on a steady diet of violent "entertainment" consisting of shocking news, violent tv and movies, violent music, violent games, and the complete lack of "entertainment" that actually instructs and uplifts. A generation raised in the time of anger and hopelessness and cynicism and powerlessness. Kids who are instructed that their worth is tied up with the things they buy and how they look, not who they are and more importantly how they can serve others. A country that has all but demoted the middle class into minimum wage or 3 job earners, as families are stretched further and further.. and kids are left to raise themselves.

It's tragic, but I'm not surprised. My daughters are jealous that I grew up at a time when life was nicer, simpler, and more meaningful. They can see the difference.

[Karenina]

22. YUP.

[theHandpuppet]

44. Great post.

Sums it up better than anything I've ever read on this forum.

[Mojorabbit]

45. wonderful post eom

[KoKo]

56. Great Post....sad as it is... n/t

[llmart]

62. Truer words were never spoken.....

and my grown children think I was lucky to grow up in the 50's.

[SoCalDem]

66. My boys have all thanked us for having me stay home with them

Our kids were probably the LAST batch of kids who grew up in a neighborhood where ALL the Moms were "watching them".. They hated it at the time:evilgrin:..

They got up, had breakfast and went bike-riding and exploring..came home for lunch and did it all over again..just so they were in by dark.. (summer schedule)

We had ONE tv and ONE phone, and ONE bathroom..and even though they all had their own rooms, they did have to share and they did chores too..

We never let them have pagers (they hated us for that decision)..and would not let them get driver's licenses or even have jobs while they were under 18

[reggie the dog]

82. economic reality

The middle class is being squeezed, they have to live like the working class. That means 2 parents working just to have a house where 2 kids share a bedroom. I am trying to convince my wife to move to the middle of nowhere so we can afford a house with shared bedrooms on one salary.(Ideally at the town nearest to the middle of nowhere).

[Chovexani]

67. Those "good old days" were just as fucked up in a lot of ways.

Are we worse off as a society now as we were then? Certainly. Your post is about 90% true. Where I beg to differ is here:

A generation of kids that interact mostly on the internet and phones, not in person. A few generations raised on a steady diet of violent "entertainment" consisting of shocking news, violent tv and movies, violent music, violent games, and the complete lack of "entertainment" that actually instructs and uplifts.

Entertainment is entertainment is entertainment and I am beyond sick and tired of people who ought to know better shaking their canes at us damn kids and our hobbies (I say "us", because I'm 26 and have been hearing the same bullshit my entire life). These things only become a problem when parents leave their kids to be raised by them. Kids that are already fucked up for a variety of reasons will find any excuse to go off. Also, we've got a mental health epidemic is this country, and a bullying epidemic that no one wants to acknowledge. It's a miracle I didn't turn into another statistic, with the zero emotional support I got at home (and, at times, family that were actively hostile towards me for being different). No, actually it's not, because that "evil" internet and phone interaction saved my life. For kids whom mainstream society casts off--the nerds, the outcasts, the GLBT, subcultural kids who don't look like Abercromie & Fitch models--this is how we create community. The people I saw during that vaunted face-to-face interaction made my life a living hell. They were the ones who kicked mine and my friends' asses after Columbine happened, because we were goths.

You may not understand it. But I say the problem is not with music, movies and video games, the problem is with ignorant people who don't give their kids enough credit, with parents who don't open lines of communication and who refuse to just BE THERE for their kids. If you banned every film above a G rating, banned gangsta rap and death metal, completely eliminated every bit of pop culture besides Barney and allowed game developers to only make fishing simulators and Hello Kitty puzzle games, there would still be violence in the world.

[KoKo]

68. What you say is a good point...but I remember living in Neighborhoods where kids

used to "rake leaves and mow lawns" to make some pocket money. Where I live if you can't as a Parent keep up your lawn you pay someone else to do it. There aren't any kids knocking on our doors to make a few bucks doing what "we kids" used to do before we could go out and legally work but wanted money to buy records and record players and to go to the movies. We weren't poor but what was considered Middle Class at the time and we were always looking for ways to make money to buy the techie toys that were available to us at that time.

I live in a neighborhood where the "techie toys" of this time are provided...and no kid I've ever seen in my massive Suburban Sprawl Neighborhood of probably a thousand families has EVER COME KNOCKING ON MY DOOR looking for any kind of work.

Our society has changed ...and since most of us live in Urban, Suburban, Ex-Urban neighborhoods...I can't figure it's different for any of us who don't live in rural areas.

What's gone wrong with America? We must be pretty rich if few kids have to work for "pocket money" when they are 10 years and older just doing chores like "cat/dog sitting" and leaf raking and lawn mowing.

:shrug:

[reggie the dog]

81. I'm 28

And I used to rake leaves, and shovel snow for pocket money when I was in the 10 to 15 range. I lived in the middle class suburbs though. In the neighborhood I taught in on the west side of Chicago it was much MUCH more lucrative for 10 or 11 year olds to sell drugs (even with the shit profit margins given to them by the older gang members) to the many suburbanites that came to their neighborhood looking for heorin or crack.

[SoCalDem]

85. My boys washed cars on weekends, delivered papers, and even started a little business

cleaning garages.. Odd thing though? they never cleaned OUR garage or even their own rooms :rofl:

They mowed lawns too, until they left the lawnmower out and someone stole it :(..We replaced it, but they were not allowed to take it off OUR property after that.:)

Our youngest tutored calculus & trig for money during high school..

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. Oh, you know the perpetrators, did you?

[JVS]

88. our purity of essence is gone, they polluted our precious bodily fluids

[superconnected]

24. Junior H.S. Kids

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071212/ap_on_re_us/bus_stop_shooting

[flashl]

27. Police: 6 shot after exiting Vegas school bus

Source: USA Today

Six junior high or high school students were shot Tuesday after they got off a school bus, and two were critically hurt, police said.
Gunshots rang out in northeast Las Vegas just before 2 p.m., Officer Bill Cassell said.

Six young people were transported to area hospitals. Four had minor gunshot injuries and two were in critical condition, Cassell said.

At least two people are believed to have taken part in the shootings, he said. Police were not saying whether the shooting suspects were on foot or in a vehicle.

The shooting occurred less than a mile from two elementary schools, Woolley and Clyde Cox Elementary Schools. A Clark County School District official said the schools were not closed.



Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-11-bus-stop-shooting_N.htm

[Mojambo]

28. I was going to make a craps joke, but I really don't want to be flamed to death today. n/t

[qanda]

29. What in the world is going on?

All these shootings are just ridiculous.

[superconnected]

30. Look who's running america.

I know, I know.. I should have said "what is running amerika".

[AndyTiedye]

39. Mad Cowboy Disease

[lonestarnot]

31. Too many to keep track of this week, so it looks like this one has been entirely skipped.

[eleny]

32. This just happened within the past few hours?

k&r

[trashcanistanista]

33. It happenend around 2:00 PM PST.

They were coming home from school and getting off the school bus. I posted about it earlier. This is not getting very much media attention.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3098330

[eleny]

34. It could be covered on Anderson Cooper

Odd that it isn't breaking news on the tv.

[flashl]

35. More details

Hospital officials said that only one teen remains in critical condition after six were shot during a bus stop shooting. One is still in serious condition while three have been upgraded to good condition and one male has been discharged from University Medical Center.

The shooting happened just before 2 p.m. Tuesday near Walnut and Alexander roads.

Students said they were exiting a school bus from Mojave High School when two teens shot six to 10 rounds at fellow riders. One girl and five boys were injured, two of whom were shot in the stomach and the rest in extremities.

The two students who were shot in the torso have been listed in critical condition, paramedics said. They did not say how the other four teens were doing, but all of them were receiving treatment at UMC within 30 minutes of the shooting, emergency crews said.

Police are still searching for the two shooters, but they have lifted lockdown orders on Cox Elementary.

Unconfirmed reports from students said the shooting may have resulted from a gang-related argument Monday on the same bus route.

Details in this story are still developing.

Source

[yodermon]

36. Jeezus.. have all the Manchurian operatives been given a signal or something? n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

59. I had that same thought.

I know it's part and parcel of our violent culture...but damn.

[elfin]

37. "Tis the Season for

misfits, angry depressives etc. to flame out when the atmophere is filled with phony hope and generosity and endless messages of the joys of the family.

Add sappy specials on love, forgiveness etc. to exaerbate their misery with hokey songs ALL OVER the airwaves to drive them to the gun closets and make others join them in despair.

[Plucketeer]

38. I'm glad

that any guns involved will be held innocent! I feel BAD, 'cause you just KNOW someone's gonna make a case against those poor, innocent sporting implements. This is just one more argument for every citizen having a piece strapped to their hip!

:grr:

[-..__...]

41. God forbid we should do anything that would violate...

gang members 1st amendment rights to "peaceably to assemble"... oh wait there's that term militia "peaceably".

That being the case... I'm all for rounding up each and every one little rat bastard associated with any gang affiliation.

[joshcryer]

48. Here are some gangs with guns:

http://www.jou.ufl.edu/documentary/negroeswithguns/

[reggie the dog]

52. 3 questions

1. If you round up all gang members who would feed their parents/families??

2. Where would the money come from to feed these people?

3. Where would people buy their drugs? (I am pretty sure the grass I smoke had touched the hands of gangsters, surely the imported stuff , the homegrown no, but the imported yes.)


Gangs are VERY important for the economies of the neighborhoods they are in. They often offer more jobs than any other industry.

[Plucketeer]

63. Undertakers

...love guns and gangs!

Another point to the lunacy of focusing on Islamo-terrorists... Gangs are ORGANIZED terrorist outfits - WELL entrenched across this country. Just because the thousands of deaths they cause each year aren't all concentrated in ONE bunch - at ONE time, the federal government shines the problem on!

BLAM! BLAM BLAM! "Move along people, no terrorists here! Go on about your business as if nothing's happened."

Guns are tools of death. That's what they were concieved as being, that's what they'll always be. So, who really needs tools to kill with? Are we starving so bad that we HAVE to count on killing wildlife to survive? Are we gonna regress to Wild West times, where we kill others to settle the score and then check to see if we did right?

I have trouble with the scenario where someone invented these things because there was an epidemic of targets that sprung up overnite!

[reggie the dog]

74. Guns are tools of death.

I cannot argue with that. I just like having guns in my house in the USA because we never know when the government will come to herd us up. (Much the same way the black panthers suggested arming themselves).

Also I think that gangs are so violent because they have no legal redress in court when someone does not pay them for drugs and they have no advertising wars, just gun battles, to try to get market share. Of course if drugs and prostitution were legal they would not have a lot of products to sell.

[coalition_unwilling]

65. Would you be willing to round up members of the Los Angeles Police Department?

They're a "gang" with uniforms and guns and they behave almost as poorly as the "gangs" you decry. (See for example what happened during the police riot in MacArthur Park on May 1, 2007 or check out the shooting death a couple years ago in LA of a little baby of color being held in the arms of her mentally deranged father. LAPD fired many rounds and the white media said squat\zero\zilch about it. The only reason MacArthur Park got any significant air time is that the LAPD attacked and injured several members of the Latino media.)

[-..__...]

69. There are good cops... and there are bad cops.

How many good gang members are you aware of?

Do you really believe that the LAPDs behavior and activities rival that of the Crips, MS-13, Latin Kings. Mexican Mafia, etc?

How many inner city deaths can be attributed to the cops... how many to the gangs?

I'm not defending or condoning any improper, illegal or unconstitutional police activities, but your implied comparison of the two is
way out of proportion.

And FWIW... this is coming from someone who is against the armor piercing ammo ban (I'll leave that one to you to figure out).:smoke:

[reggie the dog]

75. I had students

that were good gang members. They sold drugs so their mother no longer had to prostitute herself towards the end of each month in order to feed the family. Very few gang members carry guns (most gangs have strict rules about who can carry guns). Even fewer ever use them. The vast majority of gang members are lowly paid drug runners, street level sellers, and never carry guns.

[coalition_unwilling]

79. Have you followed LAPD history since Rodney King?

If so, you are no doubt familiar with the so-called "Ramparts Scandal" which was, for the most part, hushed up and whitewashed by the various governmental and media organizationas (LA Times) responsible for oversight. Member of LAPD's Ramparts Division shot alleged gang members, then planted firearms on them in an effort to prove the shooting "justified." LAPD officers planted evidence (mainly drug) on alleged gang members they wished to take down. I could go on but, at least in the Ramparts Division, LAPD behavior equalled if not surpassed that of the very gang members they were ostensibly fighting.

I do not know any gang members and I have interacted favorably with two LAPD officers whom I consider 'excellent'. I was simply taking issue with your proposal to "round up" anyone with a gang affiliation. That tactic is ill-suited to a constitutional democracy governed by due process and the rule of law. Last time I checked, freedom of association was still operative in the U.S. Constitution.

[reggie the dog]

51. how is this the fault of guns?

It is the attitude in the head of people, the attitude that says human life has no value (Reagan did a lot to put this into our popular mode of thinking). I grew up in a house that had over a dozen guns and apart from the soldiers, babies, kids, and old people my father was make to kill in Vietnam (yes he was orderd to kill children because they had to "get rid of" communist villages, including everyone inside them) we never shot any human.

[knitter4democracy]

40. I feel so bad for everyone involved.

How sad. The parents and loved ones scared for their children, the scared children who watched that, the two gunmen running for their lives (hopefully wishing they'd never done it), the scared kids at the elementary, the bus driver, everyone. *shudder* There will be ripples from this throughout the community for years to come.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

47. A follow-up to this LBN story

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/12/wshooter212.xml

Investigators initially looked into the possibility of gang involvement, but police now say it appears the shootings were the second stage of a confrontation over a girl.

WTF?

[reggie the dog]

53. well

If they shot the girl I don't see how that will get them a date with her. Dating must be really difficut today. You never know if the guy you refuse will shoot you for it.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

54. So the next time I get asked out in the States

I'm risking being shot?

[Lilith Velkor]

61. Yes. n/t

[slackmaster]

57. I think the same thing about guys who spend thousands of dollars customizing their cars

Most females really are not impressed.

[Lilith Velkor]

60. Yup. n/t

[rocktivity]

73. Two girls were suspended from my nephew's school for fighting

It turns out they were fighting over my nephew's affections. And did I mention they were only ten years old?

:crazy:
rocknation

[IronLionZion]

77. A 10 year old girl in Australia had sex with 9 men at the same time

6 of them got off with nothing. Sick....

[flashl]

70. Update

An 18-year-old man was arrested in a shooting at a school bus stop that injured six young people, police said.

more stories like thisNicco Tatum was arrested Wednesday in Denver after authorities received a tip that he was headed to Chicago on a bus, police Capt. Kirk Primas said. Tatum is expected to be booked on six counts of attempted murder with a deadly weapon and six counts of battery with a deadly weapon.

Police were still searching for a second suspect.

Six people were wounded Tuesday at a bus stop a few miles from Mojave High School in North Las Vegas. At least one teen remained hospitalized Wednesday.

Alejandro Rios, 18, who was shot in the torso, was upgraded from critical to serious condition, University Medical Center spokeswoman Cheryl Persinger said. A 17-year-old male also hospitalized had been listed in serious condition late Tuesday, but an update was not available because he has chosen to keep his information private, Persinger said.

A 21-year-old man and three other teens were treated for less severe wounds and released soon after the shooting, authorities said.

Police have said they believed the shooting stemmed from a fight at school over a girl earlier Tuesday. The brawl was contained by school police, who arrested three male students, all about 16, officials said.

Read More ...

[Diamond Dave]

71. Anarchy - here it comes......... Gated compounds, middle class wipe out,

road rage, more "postal" events, ordinary people pushed over an edge. Families in crisis..........

Hang on everyone, just wait till after Christmas. I really hate to say it, but just wait, we have not seen anything yet.

The Great Depression was nothing compared to what is coming down this pike. I hope I'm wrong.

We have a tiny window to make it not be so. Are we up for it? Yes we are. Can we make it happen? I give it 50-50. The jury is out till after Christmas. January is going to be a whole hell of a lot of fun for us all.

[conspirator]

78. Anarchy is not that bad. What you should fear is FASCISM. nt

[Xenotime]

80. Take the guns away from these assholes

[reggie the dog]

83. lates take odds

I say there is a 90% probability that these guns were purchased ILLEGALLY in the first place. Gangsters that carry guns and shoot them (a small minority of gangsters) generally do not give a shit if they risk jail time, hence their not caring that they illegally buy and carry guns.

[OKthatsIT]

87. Who are the assholes?

As long as we have a NATIONAL SECURITY ACT (1947) we will have no disclosure on the PROJECTS done by MK-ULTRA and DARPA.

Do your research.

[Make7]

84. I sometimes wonder what it would feel like to be an Iraqi...

There must be multiple incidents with multiple deaths almost every single day in Iraq. I think I would be almost completely numb to the news by now if I actually lived there....

- Make7