Cuba Confronts US at UN Debates

[Mika]

Source: Presna Latina

United Nations, Nov 15 (Prensa Latina) Cuba and US had a confrontation at the debates of UN Commission in charge of finances, when the Caribbean island accused Washington of obstructing its payments to the organization.

Cuban acting ambassador Ileana Nunez reiterated the difficulties of her country to pay to the corresponding payments to this organism due to the reinforcing of US economic, commercial and financial blockade against her nation.

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She denounced that once again the administration of Washington "shows its complete disregard regarding UN, without minding to affect this organization as to continue with their political criminal policy of blockade against Cuba".

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The positions presented by the ambassador caused protests from the US representative, who affirmed that the blockade is a bilateral subject.

Read more: here

[Rabo Karabekian]

1. Come On Please

Don't you know Cuba, our double standards don't count. As long as us and Israeli are for it, it's gospel.

[Lex1775]

2. Doesn't Cuba trade with the rest of the world?

What's the problem here? A sovereign nation (US) decides to embargo another sovereign nation (Cuba). If the Cuban government really wanted to piss off Washington they should sign some fat trade agreements with the Russians, Chinese and any other country that we are currently at odds against (real or imaginary). Using the US as a scapegoat when you have access to the entire rest of the "global economy" makes them look foolish.

[Mika]

3. Not really. The US sanctions are extra territorial.

Meaning that any company, foreign or domestic, cannot do business with/in Cuba and the US at the same time. One or the other.

Companies and corporations make products, goods, and services - not countries.

Of course, most all companies choose the vastly larger and wealthier market in the US.

Still, it is one or the other, not both.

Yes, technically, Cuba can trade with countries, just not the companies in those countries that do biz w/the US (which is most all).



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[coalition_unwilling]

20. Thank you for that. Note that the recently "enhanced" sanctions

against Iran do not (yet!) carry the same stricture. In other words, foreign companies that do business with Iran can continue to do business with the U.S. And to think that Cuba offered 1,200 doctors with hurricane kits after Katrina (an offer abruptly and rudely refused), and one must only conclude that the U.S. is rapidly approaching Nazi Germany for the record of the most boorish nation in history. 14 more months of Bush and we may well surpass Nazi Germany.

[Judi Lynn]

5. The ones who look foolish are the ones who don't understand what they're discussing.

Do your homework first, then discuss, so you have something real to work from.

[defendandprotect]

4. The sanctions are immoral and petty --- and should be lifted ----

[davidinalameda]

6. and maybe Cuba should stop locking up political prisoners

see it cuts both ways

[Progressive Friend]

8. And Washington should stop torturing prisoners on Cuban territory

And stop meddling in Cuba's internal affairs. If a political party in the US would have accepted money from a foreign government (especially a hostile one), the individuals involved would be imprisoned for at least 10 years. The so-called "political prisoners" who are in jail in Cuba are guilty of the same crime: being funded by a foreign (and hostile) government. If they want to stay out of jail in the future, they should consider saying "no thanks" to the paychecks from Washington.

[Peace Patriot]

9. Indefinite detention without charges or trial, torturing prisoners including

thousands of innocent people, slaughtering a million innocent people to get their oil, pervasive domestic spying by the military on all our phone calls, all our emails, and all our personal information, even spying on what books we check out of the library, and gagging librarians from talking about it, secret torture prisons in eastern Europe, secret torture flights, rendition to other countries for even more horrible torture...

How dare the U.S., with its history of horrendous violence and repression in Latin America, and the Bush Junta, with its ties to the rightwing regimes in Latin America where torture, murder of union organizers, peasant farmers and political leftists and other oppression are on-going, and its war crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, CUBA, lecture anybody else, or sanction anybody else, or demonize anybody else!?

I'm sure the Bush Junta can out-do Cuba, a thousand to one, on political prisoners--and we don't even know the half of what these Bushite fuckers are doing.

You're problem, dwickham, is that you are using a cliche--"it cuts both ways"--and so you don't need to think much, and ask yourself what "it" is. What is the "it" that "cuts both ways"? U.S. moral superiority? Don't make me laugh. Sanctions? Did Cuba place an embargo on the U.S. and I didn't hear about it?

The truth is that U.S. sanctions against this tiny country, which has invaded no one, and which poses no threat to us whatsoever, and which, in fact, is doing some good in the world--sending doctors, without charge, to the poorest areas of Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador, and providing free medical educations to its own people and to many visiting students, among other good works--is immoral, belligerent and war-like. Why don't we make peace with this island? They had a violent revolution--forty years ago. So what? We, too, had a bloody revolution. So did the French--both of them a lot bloodier than Cuba's. And the U.S. is supporting much, much worse governments all over the world--Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Uzbekistan, Colombia. It seems that, wherever there is truly heinous tyranny, there we are with billions of dollars in aid--often military aid used for further repression. Cuba is a MILD case of political repression, by comparison, and has some reason to be fearful of dissent, considering U.S. destabilization efforts and "black ops," and support of fascist groups and coup plotters throughout Latin American history, to this day.

It "cuts both ways." It being the truth.

[Mika]

15. Great post!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Revolution is the profound conviction that there
is no force in the world capable of destroying
the force of truth and ideas.

[coalition_unwilling]

22. Thank you. You've captured far more eloquently than I ever could

my rage at the hypocrisy and double-standards.

[defendandprotect]

10. Yeah, Guantanamo is full of Cuba's political prisoners + they're TORTURING them, I hear --- !!!!

[davidinalameda]

11. so that makes it okay for the Cuban government to torture their citizens?

if you're going to condemn the American government for torture, you need to condemn ALL governments for torture

[defendandprotect]

12. You can't be for Human Rights and for TORTURE . ..

Line up the victims --- more than 2 MILLION Iraqis dead ---

More than 40,000 or perhaps even more TORTURED ---

Now what's Castro's count?

And, take your own advice --- if you're going to condemn Cuba, then you need to condemn America as well for TORTURE --

[davidinalameda]

18. I have condemned the Bushies for torture

and their needless invasion of Iraq

and let's not forget the 300 plus American men and women who have died as well

plus the other coalition troops whose governments have caused their deaths as well

[Mika]

14. How about some links.

I am sick and tired of this "everybody knows" tactic of discussion. Its similar to the RWMSM's use of "some people say" when dispensing propaganda.

Please post some links about Cuba's "torture" of its citizens from a reputable source that has actual first hand documentation of Cuba's current "torture" tactics,

Thanks.

[davidinalameda]

19. you want to play this game fine

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/

and imprisonment of political prisioners

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinaldo_Arenas

he was imprisoned for not toeing the party line

[Mika]

24. First..

.. Its not a game to me, I have near and dear family and friends in Cuba. I have spent a great deal of time there, including over a year living there - during an entire election season.

==

Second.. How about some actual unbiased information. The 1st source you cite is relying on heresay from the family of those imprisoned for being agents of a foreign declared enemy (the US) of Cuba. They and their families are on the payroll of the US interests section in Cuba.

I prefer (just as I do re: global warming science) information from unbiased academics, not cronies on the payroll or with a vested interest.

Here's an example..

THE CUBAN PRISON SYSTEM 2000

by Prof. Soffiyah Elijah
Clinical Instructor
Criminal Justice Institute
Harvard Law School

Since the island nation of Cuba experienced its successful revolution in 1959 its prison system has been evolving. Despite accusations of harsh human rights abuses from its neighbors to the North, Cuba today maintains a prison system that is in many respects far more humane than Western propaganda would have the uninformed public believe.

My study of the Cuban prison system began in 1987 when I first visited the country to attend a conference co-sponsored by the American Association of Jurists and the Cuban Association of Jurists. I was pleasantly surprised during the trip when the opportunity arose to visit a men's prison. A group of conference attendees traveled by bus to the prison and when we arrived we were not searched and our belongings were not checked. We did not sign in or out. Nobody asked to check our identification. Having visited numerous prisons in the U.S. I have never entered any of them without a thorough search of my person and my belongings. Government issued photo identification is always required.

Although we were given a tour of the prison we were free to wander off and talk with the prisoners unmonitored. We walked all around the facility and were allowed to go into cells, work areas, the cafeteria, hospital, classrooms, recreation area and any other space we chose. This we were allowed to do unaccompanied. The prisoners wore street clothing.

Although one might think that this must have been a minimum or medium security prison, there are no such institutional classifications. Prison institutions are not characterized by security level. Rather prisoners of varying security levels are all housed in the same facility. The four levels of security classification for prisoners are maximum, high, moderate and minimum. The distinction in their security classification is borne out in the frequency with which they are allowed family and conjugal visits, mail, phone privileges and furlough availability. All prisoners, regardless of security level, are afforded at least four family and conjugal visits a year. Prisoners with the lowest security classifications are afforded more frequent family and conjugal visits than higher security classified prisoners.

Needless to say I was a bit taken aback at this very different approach. For the next thirteen years I built on this experience and conducted further research on the Cuban prison system.

In 1988 I returned to Cuba to attend the International Women¹s Conference hosted by the Federation of Cuban Women (FMC). Another opportunity arose to visit a prison, this time it was a women’s facility. My impressions were very similar to those I had when I visited the men’s facility. In a nutshell, the Cuban system still impressed me as being more humane than what I had observed in the United States.

Prisoners in Cuba are incarcerated in the province in which they live. A province is the geographic equivalent to a county as we know it in the United States. This is done to facilitate regular contact between prisoners and their families. This contact is seen as an integral part of the prisoner¹s rehabilitation. Families are incorporated through joint counseling into the rehabilitation process. Each prison is staffed with professionals who are trained to assist the family and the prisoner plan for his or her re-entry into the community. The focus is on rehabilitation as opposed to retribution and punishment.

Prisoners or their families may request conditional liberty passes. These are similar to furloughs and are granted to allow the prisoner to tend to his or a family member’s health. The furlough time is counted as part of the sentence.

Prisoners are not obligated to work. Work is considered a right of the prisoner so that he can earn an income. Prisoners are allowed to work in the same sort of employment as they held prior to their incarceration if it is available at the facility where they are being held. They are compensated for their labor at the same wage that free workers are compensated. They are not charged room and board no matter how much they earn. Similarly, they do not have to pay for their education, medical, dental or hospital care or any other activities they experience. Social security benefits and pensions are available to all prison laborers. In the event of a prisoner’s death, his family will receive his pension. A portion of the prisoner’s earnings is sent to his family. Even if a prisoner does not work, his family will be cared for by the State.

Once a prisoner has served at least half of his sentence he can request a conditional release if he is a first offender. A positive conduct record is the primary factor considered in granting the request for relief. The request for conditional release is made to the sentencing tribunal. The district attorney is given an opportunity to be heard with respect to the request. All prisoners are released after serving two thirds of their sentences.

In 1997 the availability of alternatives to incarceration was expanded to cover all defendants sentenced to up to five years incarceration. Previously these alternatives were only available to defendants sentenced to up to three years. The expansion of the availability of alternatives to incarceration to all defendants facing up to five years’ incarceration covered almost 95% of Cuba¹s prisoners. The recidivism rate for those prisoners released pursuant to the use of alternatives to incarceration is less than 15%. These alternatives include a form of probation, conditional release (similar to parole) and suspended sentences.

The conditional release program is very interesting. The defendant lives for twelve days in a residence located near a farm or industrial center. He works at the farm or industrial center during these twelve days. Then he has three days off where he can leave the residence and go home to his family. On the fourth day, the defendant returns to the work site and the residence. The defendant works side by side with non-incarcerated workers who are not informed of his status. He is paid the same wage as his co-workers and is afforded the same benefits and privileges. He works the same shifts and wears civilian clothing. Work alternatives can be revoked if the defendant fails to adhere to the rules and conditions of the program. The sentencing tribunal is informed if the defendant fails to meet the conditions and it can decide to return the defendant to prison.

The goal of the Cuban prison system is to return people to the community as productive contributors as soon as possible. Therefore the focus is not on punishment, but rather on rehabilitation and re-education. Perhaps this goal would be a useful addition to the prison system that has evolved in the United States.

(c) 2000 by Soffiyah Elijah. May not be reprinted without premission.
(Permission granted to me by author.)

==

Third.. Wikipedia? Reinaldo Arenas? A drug addicted alcoholic with financial incentive to gin-up his stories? Sorry, not exactly a neutral source of unbiased info. Sill, no torture evidence.

War of words: website can't define Cuba
http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y06/may06/10e4.htm

What's a neutral point of view? The Cuba entry in the online reference site Wikipedia shows just how difficult it is for the volunteer-run website to tackle politically charged subjects.

By Pablo Bachelet, [email protected]. Posted on Wed, May. 03, 2006.

WASHINGTON - One editor complained that Havana sympathizers were transforming a scholarly enterprise into ''their own private Fidel Castro fan page.'' A user was tossed out after threatening to sue another for libel.

The fuss is over the Cuba entry in Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia created, edited and administered entirely by volunteers with the altruistic purpose of becoming a Web-based knowledge repository for humanity.

But the Cuba entry, like those on President Bush and abortion, has been snared in intense political divisions over everything from the impact of U.S. sanctions on the communist-ruled island to whether it should have a separate section on its human rights record. Russia and North Korea do not.

There have been so many dueling edits -- 30 entries on April 27 alone -- that the article has been placed off-limits to first-time or unregistered users. The article has notices alerting readers that the neutrality of four sections is under dispute.

A central tenet of Wikipedia is that articles must be written in a neutral point of view. But, as the debate on the talk page attached to the Cuba article demonstrates, neutrality is often in the eye of the beholder.

The debate over Cuba turned intense after Adam Carr, who identifies himself as having a Ph.D. in history from the University of Melbourne in Australia and a gay rights activist, introduced this sentence high in the article: "Cuba is a socialist republic, in which the Communist Party of Cuba is the sole legal political party, and is the only state in the western hemisphere that is not a democracy.''

SPIRITED DEBATE

This prompted responses that went from scholarly citations of political scientists with definitions of democracy, to accusations of not-so-hidden political agendas.

Bruce Hallman wrote that calling Cuba undemocratic is a ''logical fallacy'' because it applies ''capitalistic values'' in the context of a socialist society. 'Might it be possible to write the article without using the word 'democracy' at all?'' he suggested.

''Sorry, comrade, no dice,'' answered Carr, one of the few writers who posts a description of himself. "These comments show quite clearly that you are a communist, or at least someone who actively supports the Castro dictatorship, not just . . . someone who is naïve about the realities of Cuba.''

With neither side giving in, on April 15 a ''mediation cabal'' -- an informal mediator -- joined the discussion. The cabal suggested citing reputable sources to back the Cuba-is-not-a-democracy sentence.

''If we need a citation that Cuba is not a democracy, then maybe we need citation that Cuba is in Latin America,'' retorts CJK, another user.

''Cuba is a dictatorship, plain and simple,'' says Carr, calling Castro's foreign supporters "gullible idiots.''

Failing to produce an agreement, the cabal departed after complaining that several editors were being rude.

Others argued that if the article discusses human rights in Cuba, then it should also point out U.S. human rights abuses. ''We will not be distracted by the well-known communist diversionary tactic of playing bogus moral equivalence games,'' Carr responded.

Scott Grayban, a talk page writer who claims to be a U.S. Air Force veteran, calls Carr ''nothing more than a pro-Bush hate-Cuba type person'' and in a separate e-mail threatened to sue Carr for libel. An administrator promptly banned Grayban for life from editing Wikipedia.

Other users also have been banned, including ''Comandante,'' who has changed the Cuba article more than 700 times. Another participant wrote that Comandante's Internet address suggests he lives in Cuba.

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I'm not seeking confrontation. Just some actual academic info, or at least something from reliable unbiased sources/persons/organizations that don't have a vested interest nor regurgitate stories from those that do.



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[davidinalameda]

25. Cuba doesn't torture?

is that what you're claiming?

you're also claiming that Soffiyah Elijah is a-what the word I'm looking for-disinterested party for lack of a better word

she's not an apologist for the Cuban government?

the first few links from google using the term Cuban torture

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y03/nov03/10e8.htm

http://www.aiipowmia.com/testimony/cubanews1.html

http://www.aiipowmia.com/testimony/cuban_hrng1.html

http://www.capmag.com/articlePrint.asp?ID=625

and the HRW link I previously posted

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/


and anyone who claims that Cuba is a democracy needs to either look up the term or have their heads examined

it's a communist dictatorship and has been since Castro took over

[Mika]

26. .. or they don't know anything about Cuba now.

"everybody knows" "some people say".



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[davidinalameda]

27. now they don't

I guess if that's true, that makes everything that happened in the past just peachy keen then

[EstimatedProphet]

29. Then why don't you?

Where do you clamor for a trade embargo against China?

[Unvanguard]

16. Absolutely. So should we. n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

21. Like the U.S. doesn't lock up political prisoners? Please, give me

a break . . . ever heard of the "San Francisco 8"? If not, go ahead and check it out then get back to me on whether Cuba or the US locks up more political prisoners.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. So you think the embargo is right because Cuba is an evil dictatorship?

Let me look for your righteous indignation against China and Saudi Arabia...

Odd, for some reason I couldn't find any. Only could find it against other countries the US govt. doesn't like, e.g. Venezuela and Iran.

[Judi Lynn]

7. Brazilian President to Visit Cuba

Brazilian President to Visit Cuba
According to the program, the Brazilian Head of State will sign several cooperation agreements and will meet with government officials.

Brazilian President Luiz Ignacio Lula da Silva is scheduled to carry out a working visit to Cuba on November 22nd, according to that country's Foreign Ministry.

According to the program, the Brazilian Head of State will sign several cooperation agreements and will meet with government officials.

The Brazilian President expressed his desire to visit Cuba during meetings with Cuban Vice President Carlos Lage and Foreign Minister Felipe Perez Roque in Santiago de Chile where they attended the recently concluded Ibero-American Summit.

http://www.cubaheadlines.com/2007/11/14/7060/brazilian_president_to_visit_cuba.html

[boricua79]

13. "the blockade is a bilateral subject."

Hey, Principal, my beating up this nerd here is a bilateral subject" - A bully

'nuff said.

[Judi Lynn]

17. Isn't that ODD? "....affirmed that the blockade is a bilateral subject."

It's not bilateral when everyone in the world knows it's wrong.

The morally sound people of the world would agree it's 100% wrong, in every conceivable way.

This country is never going to be clean, and healthy until ALL the people who believe it's acceptable to bully, bribe, threaten or slaughter people anywhere are simply all gone, dead from old age, and not replaced.

They've fouled and sickened the entire world for too long. Here's hoping they will eventually stop attracting greedy, lazy followers who'd rather bully and bluff their way to success than earn it by their own disciplined hard work.

Strong people have no need for the right-wing.

Welcome to D.U., boricua79. :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

[boricua79]

23. thanks for the welcome

I've often read your posts on Latin america and it's good to know there are DUers who are actually informed.