Cop: Teens Beheaded, Burned Man For Thrill

[rodeodance]

Source: ap


Cop: Teens Beheaded, Burned Man For Thrill
2 Detroit-Area Youths Accused Of Mutilating Sex Offender, Burning Corpse With Blowtorch

DETROIT, Nov. 12, 2007



(AP) A high school senior and another teenager were charged Monday in the slaying and mutilation of an adult acquaintance, whose burned torso was found last week, and severed head discovered this weekend in a local river. Prosecutors say the teens killed the man for the thrill of it.

Canton High School student Jean Pierre Orlewicz, 17, of Plymouth, and Alexander James Letkemann, 18, of Westland, are charged with one count each of first-degree premeditated murder, felony murder and mutilation of a corpse.

They are accused in the planning, ambush and slaying of 26-year-old Daniel Sorenson last Wednesday in a Canton Township garage owned by Orlewicz's grandfather, Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said.

"They lured him in the garage where they prepared a space to kill him," Worthy said at a news conference.

A tarp had been spread on the garage floor, and Sorenson was stabbed multiple times in the back. His head was sawed off and his body wrapped in the tarp, authorities said.

No link yet.

[Atman]

1. Is this a "HATE CRIME?"

Tell me...is it? Would this fall under the Hate Crimes legislation because the man was targeted because he was a sex offender? Just curious.

:popcorn:

Or does it all depend upon hating the "right people?"

Things that (should) make you go "hmmmmmm."

.

[Dinger]

2. Excellent, Excellent Point

Thank you for making it.

[Dinger]

3. Yeah Right, I'm Sure This Is True

"Canton police confirmed earlier reports that Sorensen was a registered sex offender, but police and Worthy emphasized that investigators have found no connection between the victim's sex offender status and his murder."


http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14562826/detail.html

[MNDemNY]

5. Eek...Good point, but away from this one.

taint worth the grief.

[rodeodance]

14. I do not know. but good question

[gratuitous]

18. Apparently, the killers didn't have the man's rap sheet in hand

So it could have apparently been anyone they immolated and decapitated; just so happens the guy they nabbed was a registered sex offender. My reading of the story is that it could just as easily have been Desmond Tutu or Pauly Shore.

The crime committed was not apparently due to the victim's status as anything except a convenient target. No larger fear was played upon, no victimized minority segment of the community was targeted. Or are these concepts too subtle? We have "enhanced" penalties for all sorts of crimes; why not the deliberate terrorizing of an identifiably oppressed segment of the community?

[treestar]

73. Not every such crime is a hate crime, so that the prosecution has

to prove something. I'd be very surprised if the mere status was enough, the prosecutor probably has to prove a connection, along with guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Though thinking of it, killing someone just for the "thrill" should be its own class of enhanced crime. If proven here, it ought to apply, no matter who the victim is.

[Occulus]

79. The authorities need to check their computers, if any

because MI has the registry online. They wouldn't have a "rap sheet", but their computers definitely would remember pulling up his records.

[ohio2007]

25. wrong people so it won't get the hate crime stamp

Detroit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXDKURYoBos

[Harper_is_Bush]

35. I read the article, and found no mention that he was targetted for that reason.

If he was, I would say it's the expected result of a death penalty culture.

When people "deserve to die", and are subsequently killed by the state, people become associate lethal vengence with acceptable behavior.

[Zhade]

56. Wait, what? This guy wasn't born a sex offender.

How can you compare him with a GLBT person, or a member of a minority group - victims actually targeted for who they are?

"Sex offender" isn't an inborn trait, it's a criminal choice.

[Atman]

70. Another poster said this wasn't a "class of people"

Except for that it is. There is a very large "class of people" who are on these offender lists for such things as being caught peeing in public or 18 yo having sex with a 16 yo. And once on the list, when they move into any neighborhood in American, they get hunted down and taunted and run out of town, because they are "a sex offender," despite having legally "repaid their debt to society."

This is my entire point, and why I've been so offended by the whole idea of hate crimes. Many people immediately want to jump on me and claim I don't understand, but I do, completely, and I am not at all insensitive to the argument posed by the GLBT community. I also understand that these laws create "special classes" of people, and this case and this thread a perfect examples. Many seem to feel it was okay to target this guy simply because he was "a dirtbag." Is that any different than the kids who target bums for killing? They're disposable, apparently, not worth our time to defend. Human garbage.

The problem comes when you have to choose who gets the "human garbage" nameplate and who gets official protection from The State because they're a "special class." And who gets to decide.

.

[Occulus]

80. It's a felony in MI, as I understand it,

to utilize the registry in any way that would allow you to perpetrate a criminal act against someone ON the registry.

Yeah, I know... some shield.

[leaninglib]

68. That depends on whether or not the victim is one of the "preferred classes."

[Duncan Grant]

89. Was this crime meant to cause fear and intimidation for an entire group or class of people?

If you can answer that you'll understand if it's a hate crime or not.

It's a hideous crime, on that we can all agree, but I don't think this is a random act meant to cause fear or intimidate people who may be either gay, Jewish, black, hispanic, etc.

This isn't about hating -- as you put it -- the "right people" and while heinous, it's not a hate crime.

[fujiyama]

4. Holy shit!

These two went to my alma mater...well, sort of. I went to Plymouth Salem, but the three schools are part of one giant entity - PCEP.

[saigon68]

42. They need a medal for bravery and an invitation

To join the "New Action Army"

After all they are "Army Strong"

[Danger Mouse]

6. Looks like the guy they killed was a dirtbag.

I don't feel any sympathy for him, but the two knuckleheads that killed him deserve punishment to the fullest extent of the law.

[Atman]

7. So since he was "a dirtbag," it wasn't a hate crime?

Again...I guess it just has to do with hating the correct people.

.

[Danger Mouse]

8. It looks like a thrill kill.

Rather than killing him because he was a sex offender.
Regardless, would you also think it a 'hate crime' if someone is killed because they're a junkie? A murderer? How is it any different?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. You are kidding, right?

Because they once committed a crime, that excuses their murder? Is that your premise?

[Danger Mouse]

20. Not in the least. I said I don't feel bad for him...

although people can get stuck with sex offender status for stupid reasons.
Just because I'm not sympathetic doesn't mean I think it's okay that he was killed. I can think of a lot of people that I wouldn't mourn if they were murdered. However, I'd still expect that the murderer would face the consequences of their actions.

[dansolo]

91. Do you know what he was a sex offender for?

He had sex with a 14 year old girl when he was 17. Does that change your lack of sympathy? You seem to be assuming that because he is a "sex offender", that he must have done some heinous acts. The problem is that there are people who are branded for life for teenage sexual experimentation.

[Danger Mouse]

97. Read other comments in the thread for more info.

[Atman]

12. Maybe you're missing my point

I've been against "hate crime" bills since the get-go. I murder is a murder. I don't like the idea of placing specific values on certain lives based upon whether or not we think they're "dirt bags" or not.

And, I don't see where you get that it was a "thrill kill," other than the police trying to steer it that way. The man's sex-offender status is mentioned right off the bat, so it obviously was an issue to someone. So again, why wouldn't this count as a "hate crime?" Why it is a "better" crime merely because it was a "thrill kill" against a sex offender?

Do you get where I'm coming from? Are you really ready to be sitting in judgement? Thumbs up, thumbs down on who should be allowed to be killed for what reasons? Just curious. Very curious.

.

[gratuitous]

38. Except murder isn't murder

We have all sorts of gradations of murder, from killing in self defense, to accidentally running over a kid when you back out of your driveway, to the premeditated killing by an individual or even the state. As a society, we've decided to treat these different killings with differing degrees of severity.

We seem to agree that we don't have enough information about this incident to make any sort of judgment as to whether it might be a thrill kill or not. Why are you pushing for an adjudication, then, as to whether it could be typed as a hate crime?

[DLnyc]

39. No one life is more valuable than any other, true.

But when a person murders another person AS A WAY OF INTIMIDATING, TERRIFYING, HARRASSING a specific class of persons, then it doesn't seem unreasonable to say that person is guilty of a hate crime IN ADDITION to murder.

I agree a crime should not be judged worse because of who the victim is. The point, I think, is that if the murderer can be shown to have intended to intimidate a whole class of people by his (or her) act, that could be construed as an act against that class, in ADDITION to the obvious crime of murder.

[Zhade]

57. Exactly. "Sex offender" isn't an inborn trait that murderers target.

Equating this with crimes against, say, GLBT folk is despicable.

[boilinmad]

71. Altman...

...with his hate crime obsession, seems to be quieted down now, thanks to a few concise, intelligent responses......nice

[qwlauren35]

93. Actually, it sounds like a hate crime under your definition.

when a person murders another person AS A WAY OF INTIMIDATING, TERRIFYING, HARRASSING a specific class of persons...

Trust me, "Sex offenders" are a class of people. Like the woman in A Scarlet Letter. Even if you don't know why the label is there, it's a license to humiliate and isolate a person for the rest of their lives.

If I was a Sex Offender, I'd be pretty unnerved by this murder. Sex Offenders are the most visibly labeled members of our society. You can go on a website and look them up. Even if you never meet them in life, you can find out exactly where they live and what they look like. You can organize a neighborhood committee to drive them out of their homes. You can hold demonstrations in front of their houses.

There is no other American citizen CLASS I know of who is more vilified than a sex offender, no matter what that person may have done to get the label. So yes, in my book, it's a hate crime. But it will never be politically correct to say so.

But tell me, if everyone in your town knew that you were a sex offender, even if your only crime was having sex with some girl you met at a bar, only to find out that she was underage, I bet you'd be REALLY scared about this crime.

Heck, if she was young enough, people will even label you a pedophile, even though you had absolutely NO IDEA. It's sad enough to have to do time for such a thing. But to be slapped with the label for life and then, WORSE STILL, find out that some kids think its a great kick to kill you...

Maybe this will call some attention to the problems that Jessica's Law has created in terms of violating civil liberties.

[DLnyc]

94. Half-right, I think.

True you can establish 'sex offenders' as a 'class', I guess. I agree with you that the vitriol and stigmatisation is over the top sometimes, or even often, and one can be strongly opposed to rape and other horrendous crimes without buying into the 'special evil', neverending punishment and preventive incarceration ideas that are often thrown around.

False, though, I think, that there is any evidence (so far) that this crime was AIMED AT intimdating or harrassing that class. It could be that the perpetrators had published anti-sex offender literature, shouted anti-sex offender epithets or scrawled anti-sex offender grafitti, but I didn't see any evidence of that yet, and suspect no such things occurred.

Two other points: 1) the class of 'sex offenders' is somewhat different then 'GBLT' or 'religious or racial minorities', in that it is, in theory, based on an injurious act committed by the responsible person, not determined by birth. Also, 2) Laws are on the books in various states specifiying hate-crimes agains specific groups that have experienced a great degree of harassment historically, and certainly not including 'sex offenders' as far as I know.

However, I really do support your basic point in the following sense (my take on the issue, don't mean to put words in your mouth):
Demonizing sex-offenders does very little to prevent sex crimes and in fact probably distracts us from effective measures. For example, in thinking we are looking for unbelievably evil horrible monsters, we easily fail to see that our friendly priest or congressman is molesting kids. In addition, as you point out, labeling a kid who has consensual sex with a girl two years younger than he is with the same label we use for someone who visciously rapes, mutilates and murders small children is not only wrong, but a sort of sexual crime of its own sort.

All that said though, I do see the logic for hate-crime laws in this country concerning specific, birth-determined, groups which have been repeatedly and violently harrassed and intimidated over decades, especially GBLT, African-Americans and Jews. But, even though I think a lot of the sex-offender laws and rhetoric currently running around in this country is over the top, counter productive and even dangerous, I would say trying to enact hate-crime legislation to protect sex offenders is a)impossible, b)not justified and c)a bad idea.

But I do salute and admire your willingness to stand up for the rights of an unpopular group, I also find a lot of the extreme rhetoric about sex offenders spooky, and, especially, I agree that it's not going to be politically correct to say these things anytime soon.

Peace.

[NoGodsNoMasters]

41. Rediculous.

The lack of understanding of hate crime laws seems almost deliberate. Hate crime laws do not apply to all minorities, like dentists, or cab drivers, nor SHOULD they. Hate crime laws apply to sexual orientation, race, and religion. There is an ENORMOUS difference. Take two sentences "These republicans are ruining this country!!!" (Probably spoken or thought in some form by everyone on this forum.) then replace the word republicans with "jews", theres' a WORLD of difference.

[angstlessk]

9. the guy was 17 and had sex with a 14 year old...(he thought was 16??)

that is debatable, but a 17 year old with a 14 year old is NOT PEDOPHILIA! HE WAS A SEX OFFENDER ONLY BECUASE HE WAS OF THE AGE OF CONSENT AND HIS WILLING SEX PARTNER WAS NOT! Does not make him a dirtbag!

http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/11/mi-dad-begs-help-find-who-killed-my-son.html

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

11. So, as some would advocate:

This makes him deserve a beheading.

Is this DU? Am I on the wrong forum?

[superconnected]

19. Welcome to DU.

My problem with the sex offender trigger word is how it brings up such hostile emotions where people on this site believe someone "deserves" to be murdered violently. It shows they are not in control of their reason, the press is.

The easiest way for the gov to remove people from this society right now would be to label them as sex offender. I could see that being a weapon used against political dissenters in the future. I'm surprised the Bush administration didn't try in on Michael Moore since he was a vocal opponent that scared them. I can tell by the reaction to the trigger word(Ped - triggers hate felt justified without knowing more), that it will be the most effective thing to call someone even when they have nothing to do with children or porn. It's too easy of an accusation. They'd gain vehemence of both dems and repukes against the targeted person, immediately.

[izquierdista]

69. Ding! ding! ding! You win the prize!

"The easiest way for the gov to remove people from this society right now would be to label them as sex offender. I could see that being a weapon used against political dissenters in the future."

The only mistake you made was to use the hypothetical "would be" instead of the present, happening right now verb "is". There is a booming business of disappearing people while the authorities cough out "found child pornography on his computer". After the arrest, the local district attorney is assured of a slam dunk conviction which will advance his political career and make up for all the tough cases he has botched. After the conviction, the privatized prison industry is assured of another production unit that they can bill the state for. If the poor shlub ever gets released, he will be tagged forever as a "sex offender" and watched closer than a slave who had been a runaway, which turns out to be an apt metaphor, because he will live a pre 14th amendment existence. All of this with the approval of so-called liberals who can't distinguish between a baby rapist and someone who snapped a picture at the beach when a 17 year old lost the top to her bikini.

Another news item today is about the woman in jail for having a frank discussion with her teenage boys about sex. She has been started down this long road, one from which she will never be able to return. The United States has finally succeeded in getting children to denounce their parents, so they can lock them up as undesirables. The fact that occasionally one of their own, like Bob Allen or Larry Craig gets nabbed is a minor inconvenience compared to the amount of fear they can stir up, the ability to detain anyone indefinitely, the presumption of guilt that follows, and the lifelong stigma they can attach.

When the Nazis Came
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me
-Rev. Martin Niemoller

[Danger Mouse]

24. i did NOT say he deserved it.

please don't put words in my mouth.

[superconnected]

27. I didn't cite you specifically, I cited your mentality which is common

on du.

I didn't put words in anyones mouth. If you're feeling like what I said refers directly to you then you have issues to deal with.

[Danger Mouse]

29. 'my mentality'?

my mentality is, i have a hard time feeling bad for a bad person when they are murdered, but that doesn't mean i think they deserved it, either.

[Divine Discontent]

30. wow...

I think DU'ers would feel bad to hear if you were murdered by two warped teens, sorry to see you don't have the emotion in you at this point. I think it's gruesomely disgusting a man was stabbed repeatedly in the back, had his head cut off and was thrown away like trash and I feel sorry for him and those who may have cared for him. Some people lack an emotional gene to care about others they don't know who are brutally murdered, I feel sorry for them.

And to see he had sex as a child, with another teen, does not make him a criminal in very many people's eyes, or that he should be held to that 10 years after the fact.

[Danger Mouse]

44. I said that oftentimes the sex offender status is kind of arbitrary.

In this case, I think the term 'dirtbag' doesn't seem applicable.
And the way in which he was murdered is disgusting.
Pointing out that he was a sex offender in the first place is kind of silly. It's not even like he molested a kid or something.
Anyway, I still have a hard time feeling all that bad for him. I think I'm kind of spent emotionally? I don't know.

[Divine Discontent]

63. yes, I understand...

so much crap goin on in the world nowadays, thanks for the further discussion.

[Danger Mouse]

64. thanks for actually listening to what i was trying to say.

i appreciate that.

[Divine Discontent]

65. you're welcome bro n/t

[superconnected]

34. You nailed the mentaility.

"i have a hard time feeling bad for a bad person when they are murdered"

[Danger Mouse]

45. looks like this guy got stuck with the sex offender status unfairly.

if he had been a child molester though, i wouldn't have had any sympathy. i wouldn't have been happy, but i wouldn't have had any sympathy. child molestors are scum. period.
do they deserve to be murdered? hell no, and i expect their killers to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. but it doesn't mean i have to shed any tears for a fucking scumbag.
what about all the people on DU that danced on the graves of jerry falwell or ronald reagan? are they any worse?

[Harper_is_Bush]

54. Ah. You're OK with the state killing people...

Don't complain, then, when individuals take that right upon themselves.

[Danger Mouse]

60. Excuse me? When did I say that?

And that argument is absurd. The state can do it, so can I?
Go ahead and try that and see where it gets you.

[superconnected]

81. Ronnie died of old age

Is jerry dead now?

Dancing on their graves is a bit different. Dancing on someones who is murdered violently is an aquiesment of murder. IT's saying some people deserve to die that way. For higher civilization sake, no human deserves to die that way no matter what they've done. There's a reason there's no DP in Europe.

[rodeodance]

15. no,

[Danger Mouse]

21. yeah, above i had said...

sex offender status can be stuck on people for stupid reasons.

[AuntPatsy]

66. Some strange people post on "Du these days, very strange.

[Danger Mouse]

84. care to elaborate?

[AuntPatsy]

88. Yes I should I guess, I find it a bit unsettling that some here view a seventeen year old

should be accused of rape in this instance.

[Danger Mouse]

98. i don't support that.

he was stuck with the label for a stupid reason.
i'd like to know who DOES support that, for that matter.

[treestar]

74. IA, that ought not to go on the sex offender registry

It's hard to say what the ages or circumstances should be, grant it that isn't simple, but two teens are different from adult/child. Maybe there should be an intermediate category for teens. In my state, there is a four year difference that applies, so here, the guy wouldn't get stuck with that since he was 3 years older.

[Danger Mouse]

85. just another example of our 'justice' system at work...

a 17-year-old having sex with a 14-year-old is as bad as someone raping a baby.
:crazy:

[NeoConsSuck]

17. knuckleheads?

That's the term you use to describe two murderers who decapitated and burned their victim?

[Danger Mouse]

23. or 'disgusting human refuse' if you prefer.

i guess that does sound more accurate.

[Harper_is_Bush]

36. And that death penalty attitude you exhibit is exactly why America has a violence problem

The state kills people who deserve to die for their actions, and some individuals take their lead from that.

Who decides who should live and who should die? According the the US government, that is our domain.

According to the articles there's no evidence this man was targeted for his status as a sex offender, but your response to it is symptematic of a very sick society.

[Danger Mouse]

46. Excuse me?

Did I say it was a good thing he got killed?
No.
Did I say he deserved to die?
No.
I said I had no sympathy.
Big fucking difference.

[Harper_is_Bush]

49. Excuse me?

Did I say you said any of those things?

No.

You made a point about how the victim was a "dirtbag", or something to that effect, and how you have no sympathy for him.

I stand by my assessment that you exhibit a death penalty attitude, which is problamatic for your nation in terms of preserving the cycle of violence you suffer.

[cali]

58. Whoa there, bucko. I don't live in a death penalty culture

in fact, lots of Americans don't really live in a death penalty culture. I live in Vermont, whic I'll wager is every bit as enlightened as anyplace in Canada. And Vermont is hardly the only state in the Union that doesn't have the death penalty.

[DrZeeLit]

37. Whoa... I'm speechless with your regard for human life. Since when

do you get to decide who is a dirtbag and who isn't?
Did you know this man?
Do you know what type of crime he committed?
Do you know if he paid his dues to society?
Do you know if he has family, loved ones, a life?

On what cogent information are you basing your rather broad assumption?
Why are you no different than those killers?
Is life that cheap to you?

I guess I fail to realize how much ignorance and kneejerk reaction still lives in the hearts of people.

Wow...

[Danger Mouse]

47. I admit I did have a kneejerk response to the words 'sex offender'

I keep forgetting that 'sex offender' means all kinds of things, some of them stupid and unfair. Not all 'sex offenders' are child molesters.
If he HAD been a child molester, then yes, he would've been a dirtbag. A fucking dirtbag.
And again, how many times do I have to say this? I DIDN'T SAY HE DESERVED TO DIE OR THAT HIS DEATH WAS A GOOD THING. ONLY THAT I HAD NO SYMPATHY FOR HIM.
Jeez.

[Harper_is_Bush]

51. It really doesn't matter that you didn't know all the details, you still have little value for human

life.

The details (ex. 17 year old w/ 14 year old vs. something more disturbing) mean nothing in light of your comments. You've essentially expressed the belief that you favor death for those guilty of criminal behavior.

[Danger Mouse]

61. How and where did I express that?

And who are you to judge how much value I place on human life?

[qwlauren35]

92. Once again, be careful.

A 17 year old having sex with a 14 year old could be called a child molester.

Worse still, a 14 year old boy having sex with a 12 year old girl would probably be called a child molester.

When I was in 8th grade (12-13), I knew a girl who went around having sex with boys in high school because she needed the attention. Were those guys child molesters? NOT AT ALL. But Gawd forbid if her parents were so embarrassed with her behavior that they turned it around and put it on the boys who had sex with her.

These days, there are far too many 12 year old girls getting pregnant ON PURPOSE. They think it would be fun to have a baby. And it's not hard to convince some lust crazed teenager to sleep with them.

But it's quite likely that the girl's parents might try to slap the child molester label on such a boy.

Just another reason why BOYS need to be taught to abstain.

[Harper_is_Bush]

50. I think you mean "disregard". n/t

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Danger Mouse]

62. Wow. You called me psychotic.

This is amazing.
I can, I guess, imagine it to some degree. Doesn't mean I would much feel bad for the guy if he were a rapist or child molestor or something.

[qwlauren35]

72. Are you sure?

I hate the label sex offender. You never have any idea of what "crime" the person committed. It could be that he touched someone BY ACCIDENT and the parents were overzealous. It could be that he slept with someone he met in a nightclub (or a prostitute - who would know!) and she turned out to be underage. It could be that his girlfriend was angry with him. Or worse still, his "girlfriend's" daughter doesn't approve of him! It could be that he was a kid of the wrong color, who was sleeping with his girlfriend, but her parents didn't like him.

Do you KNOW that he was a dirtbag? Or are you assuming because the law labeled him?

If the kids even remotely knew, I'd call it a hate crime. But our society has decided to vilify ALL people based on a label. "Sex offenders are ALL recidivists! Bullsh*t.

I know too many people who have this label slapped on them injustly and their lives are made into a living hell, just because they don't have enough money to get a good lawyer... or they have broken a "taboo" such as interracial dating.

We are too quick to judge, and too quick to hate.

[Danger Mouse]

82. Read my other responses in the thread.

I admit that 'sex offender' is a trigger for me.
I keep forgetting that 'sex offender' is a broad and stupid term.
This guy did not deserve the label 'sex offender,' imho.

[treestar]

75. Why feel no sympathy when death was not what he deserved?

Not in society's terms, anyway.

You may disagree that the penalty against sex offenders is not high enough, but this guy had as much right to live as you or I.

And to top it off, apparently he ended up on the registry for having sex with another teen.

You could be defining a lot of people as "dirtbags" by that standard.

Even dirtbags deserve some sympathy when they've been killed for the thrill of it. The intent in the murderer's minds is just as evil whether they happen by chance to have killed a dirtbag or Mother Theresa.

[Danger Mouse]

83. Read my other responses in the thread...I judged too quickly.

The guy didn't deserve the label 'sex offender.'
Again, I have a hard time feeling much sympathy for a wicked person when they die...it doesn't mean I condone their death or think of it as a good thing. Too many innocent people die the world over, it's hard to spare many tears for the wicked when the violence comes back to them. Violent and brutal people often end up the way they lived their life. Jeffrey Dahmer, for instance, earned zero sympathy from me when he was murdered. He was a brutal, unrepentent cold blooded killer...so was the guy who killed him. Neither of them angels.
The world is too dark and sordid a place for me to bleed myself a little for every drop of blood. I mourn for battered women and children, innocents slaughtered in Iraq, starving and dying people the world over, victims of sex crimes...it's hard for me to spare any tears for the dregs of society when they shuffle off the mortal coil.
This guy was deserving of some sympathy...I feel bad that he got stuck with the sex offender label for such a stupid reason, and then these assholes kill him on top of that. What a life.
As far as I'm concerned the guys who killed him are scum. Lower than scum. Thrill killers are just about the lowest form of trash. I'd feel that way if the guy had been a baby rapist - the guys who killed him still would've been scum.

[Danger Mouse]

86. I wrote an OP about sex offenders, for anyone interested in hearing what I had to say.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2274314

As for this guy...
sorry I judged you too quickly. You got a raw deal in life.
Rest in peace.

[MadHound]

13. It is because of shit like this that all those "scarlet letter" laws

Concerning sex offender are so much bullshit. You're putting targets on the backs of people who simply don't deserve it.

[rodeodance]

16. and they will live with it-the rest of their lives. not fair.

[cstanleytech]

31. Exactly.

If the intent is to protect children then the laws are failing.
If people really wanted to protect children then they should just require the violent offenders to wear RFID tracking bracelets or something that sends an alarm if removed or if an offender approaches a place they should not be at.
We have the tech to do it after all but the politicans dont want to because they use people convicted of such crimes to rile up the voters and get elected.

[gratuitous]

22. I have a link - sorry it's Fox

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,310578,00.html

Head Found, Teens Arrested in 'Thrill Kill' Death of Decapitated Sex Offender
Monday, November 12, 2007

DETROIT — Two teens have been charged in the brutal decapitation death of a registered sex offender in Michigan whose headless body was left to burn in a subdivision in what prosecutors are calling a "thrill kill."

* * *

Sorenson {the victim} was convicted in Tazewell County, Ill., when he was 17 of having sex with a 14-year-old girl, said Northville Township police Lt. Greg Rhodes. His troubled past had nothing to do with the murder, Worthy said.

[superconnected]

26. Their pics

Letkemann



Orlewicz



Sorenson - The victim

[KayLaw]

28. They look insane

I hope they're locked up for a very long time. It would be nice if they could get a lot of psychiatric care while incarcerated. Frankly, that Letkemann looks pretty damned evil. I feel a great deal of sympathy for the victim, for God's sake!

[karlrschneider]

32. Someone peed in that guy's gene pool for sure.

:scared:

[superconnected]

33. No, that's an emotional response without reason.

I thought the same thing you did, for a moment.

Then I turned it around in my head and said, what if the first two were innocent and murdered by the third. Suddenly the first two look angelic and the thrid looks bad.

Anyway, that said, they were insane. The third looks angelic with the knowlege of what was done. God bless his family in this terrible time.

[Blue Diadem]

43. That is exactly what I thought. But it was the other kid, Orlewicz

that did the gruesome killing and beheading. According to this article, Letkemann was called to help dispose of the body when it was too heavy for Orlewicz. Strange how the craziest looking one isn't the one that did all the gruesome stuff.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14562826/detail.html

snip:Worthy said in a news conference Monday that neither money nor drugs appeared to be the motive when Orlewicz allegedly lured Sorensen, 26, to Orlewicz's grandfather's home on November 7 "for the purpose of killing him."

Orlewicz then allegedly attacked Sorensen from behind, cutting his throat with a kitchen knife. Sorensen was killed by "multiple stab wounds to the back." Orlewicz then allegedly beheaded Sorensen's body with a hacksaw and burned the body with a blowtorch in an attempt to conceal his fingerprints.

The body was wrapped into a tarp that had been laid out in the garage ahead of time. Orlewicz then placed the head into a Rubbermaid container.

According to testimony at the arraignment, Orlewicz had trouble lifting the body into his pickup truck. So he asked Letkemann, a graduate of Livonia Public Schools, to come over and help him.

[girl gone mad]

67. That guy should..

never, ever get out of prison.

He's a baby-faced sociopath.

[DS1]

87. Tattoo is BACK! And he's REALLY PISSED!

[NoGodsNoMasters]

40. Lot of particulars...

It seems to me theres' a lot of little subtleties to this case. The guys' crime, sex between a 17 and a 14 year old is HIGHLY questionable, but, from what it sounds like it was consensual. The merits of how much of a penalty he deserves for that are complex, he looks fairly young, probably didn't serve too much time. Slapping him with the sex offender tag is a bit harsh given the circumstances, perhaps sex offenses could be more clearly seperated into degrees? like murder 1, murder 2, manslaughter, etc. Also, stabbing and beheading someone is excessively violent and ghoulish and suggests psychosis, these kids clearly belong somewhere other than civilized society. That said, I support the death penalty. However, I have many qualms with the application, such as in cases where people who are accessories, but not participants. I believe the death penalty should be utilized only in particular cases , ex: Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, etc, and performed in the quickest, least painful way possible. However, I would also suggest, and I don't think I'm alone here, that we NEED harsher penalties for REAL sex offenders, many of whom get off with counseling. Jeffrey Dahmer for example, sexually assaulted a boy went through a rehabilitation program and was released shortly, where he began his murder spree.Also, individuals who take such great pleasure in making others suffer purely for enjoyment don't change. I could even support the death penalty be extended to cover serial rapists and child molesters (Unlike the victim in this current case.) as these crimes require a marked, inherent sadism. Sexual assault is, and should be seen as, a form of TORTURE. One could argue that sexual assault is worse than murder as most murderers kill they're victims very quickly, while molesters or rapists draw out they're violence, and may repeat it over and over on the same person, moreover the psychological harm they inflict lasts a lifetime.

[Danger Mouse]

48. I agree, this shows the arbitrary nature of 'sex offender' status.

I don't this guy deserves to be lumped in with pedophiles and rapists.

[Harper_is_Bush]

52. His past convictions are completely irrelevant to the story.

I'm not sure why they're even mentioned.

This is about murder, not sex.

[whistle]

53. Shadows of "A Clockwork Orange" but even more brutal than the 1971 film

...I only saw the film and did not read the actual novel that the film had been based on, so I don't really know if the speculative fiction novel by Anthony Burgess, published in 1962 had more graph and violent descriptions of hoodlum acts in it than Stanley Kubrick chose to put into his very graph film.

[Feral Libertarian]

55. Their parents must be so proud.........

[Javaman]

76. Read my sig line. nt

[Corgigal]

77. They wanted to do a "Dexter"

Pick out a sick/bad guy in the neighborhood and then kill them. The serial murderer on the Showtime TV show never gets caught. Neither can we..

[The Animator]

78. I've heard you can get "sex offender" status for mooning someone.

Some of the laws, especially in Florida are arbitrary as hell. One of my close friends, in his early 20s was dating a seventeen year old. He was in clear because their age difference was minimal. He looked up the law just to make sure. He could have sex with her all day long and the law wouldn't have a problem with it. However according to the law, he couldn't have any playboys on the coffee table while she was over at his place because exposing her to pornography would be corrupting a minor. Okay, so having all kinds of crazy sex with her isn't corrupting her, but if she sees a dirty picture your ass is going to jail.

It is too easy for someone to get the Sex Offender label in this society. I know how quick I am to judge based on that label. My mind automatically jumps to child molester, and I'm sure many others jump to that conclusion as well. There needs to be like a rating system or something. If there can be a First, Second and Third Degree of Murder followed by Manslaughter, and Wrongful Death, there can be a First Degree Sex Offense for child molestation, through to like Tenth Degree Showing your seventeen year old girlfriend the dirty birthday card your brother gave you for turning 18.

[qwlauren35]

90. There ARE ratings.

But its too easy to ignore them and just label everyone as bad.

I didn't know about mooning. That's just plain sad. What about peeing on the side of the road. Does that make someone a flasher? Or an exhibitionist?
And if a CHILD sees it, is one then a JUVENILE sex offender? Yipes.

Oh.... and if your kid walks in on you having sex, and freaks out, and tells a teacher. Goodness, that could land parents in ALL KINDS of trouble.

The legal rating system for sex offenders is extremely detailed and thorough. However, there is a belief that the worst sex offenders start small, so anyone with that label "needs watching".

The saddest thing is that this major erosion of civil liberties has the support of most Americans.

My personal opinion is that the serious sex offenders should just be permanently jailed. And those judged to be one-time offenders shouldn't be labeled. It probably takes as much money to permanently jail them as it takes to track them all over the country.

[humbled_opinion]

95. Come on People they sawed his head off..... Torture... torture

What are we teaching society today... Please top the spinning so I can get off....

[kurth]

96. Rx: Waterboarding q 3 h, then

hang them.

Letkemann’s father, Peter, briefly addressed the news media. “We’re behind him all the way — one hundred percent,” he said... “We’re all behind Alex one hundred percent,” he said, repeating his court statement... “He was always a great kid,” said Michael Hodges, 51, etc. etc.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Dato=20071112&Kategori=NEWS02&Lopenr=71112021&Ref=AR&Show=0&&imw=Y

[knight_of_the_star]

99. Sounds like Murder 1

If nothing else for the sheer brutality of what was done.