Feds Strike ID Deal Over NY Licenses

[Eugene]

Source: Associated Press

Feds Strike ID Deal Over NY Licenses

Saturday October 27, 2007 7:31 PM

By DEVLIN BARRETT

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Bush administration and New York agreed
Saturday on a compromise creating a more secure driver's license
for U.S. citizens and allowing illegal immigrants to get a version.

New York is the fourth state to reach such an agreement, after
Arizona, Vermont and Washington. The issue is pressing for border
states, where new and tighter rules are soon to go into effect for
crossings.

The deal comes about one month after New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer
announced a plan whereby illegal immigrants with a valid foreign
passport could obtain a license.

The agreement with the Homeland Security Department will create a
three-tier license system in New York, the largest state to sign on
so far to the government's post-Sept. 11 effort to make identification
cards more secure.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-7029219,00.html

[MADem]

1. WOW. What a CONCEPT!! Slap yer forehead...who EVER would have thought of such a thing!!!

My, there musta been a boatload of head and ass scratching to come up with THAT idea!!

I've been saying this for fucking years. Hell, they manage in some states to distinguish between underaged and over-21 licenses simply by changing the backdrop, or photographing the younger people at an angle, surely they could come up with a way to give someone who can't prove citizenship (for whatever reason--say you're a college student on a visa) a license so that you can show you know how to drive in-state, and obviate this absurd BS.

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. You'll need this to get into federal buildings and it will have an

embedded chip. The citizen version will also be required for airplane access ... the other won't do. Not a great day for civil libertarians.

[aquart]

3. Anything I want to say about this

is so alarmingly filled with screeching vituperation, it's best not.

[MADem]

4. Privacy's been dead for years. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

If you use any kind of plastic, have a bank account, own a home, use a telephone, use the computer, have a new car with ONSTAR capability...you're trackable.

I used to work in federal buildings in Washington DC. To get in, I had to swipe my picture ID card. To leave, I did the same. If I brought in a guest, I had to stop, have my guest hand over acceptable ID, have the identity of the guest logged, and the guest would be provided with a temporary pass to swipe in/out of the facility. And this entire transaction, as well as my progress through the buildings (at least the secure ends of them) were caught on tape.

Having a license that does the same thing really doesn't change anything in that regard. What it does do, though, is bring us one step closer to a national ID card.

[Gormy Cuss]

5. Being trackable and condoning tracking are two different things.

Privacy laws could limit data mining and other tracking except in specific circumstances. It's one thing to agree to have your movements tracked explicitly and yet another to allow anyone at anytime to do so without fetters.

I used to visit federal buildings too and I remember when access to even the HQ buildings in DC was easy without too much effort. That changed after the Murrah building attack.

[MADem]

6. It's not a question of "condoning." That's like shaking your fist at model T's and demanding

that people go back to horses and buggies.

It's just not going to happen. Even if no one is looking at your records, if they WANT to, even in the most democratic society, the capability to do that is only a quick probable cause hearing/subpeona away.

If you don't want to be trackable, you have to eschew certain societal conveniences. That's, of course, entirely up to you. But unless you want to live like the Atlanta bomber, you're going to be tracked, to some degree, in this society.

Pre-Murrah, you just showed a pass to a half-awake guard and breezed on through. There was a sign in 'sheet' at most places for guests--who knows if they even kept the thing.

It got more onerous after that, and in the run-up to 911, before the event, all of the DC buildings were switched over to the keycards and the video surveillance was stepped up as well.

[Gormy Cuss]

8. Your positioning sounds like you're advocating that we should just smile and accept it.

Needing a probable cause hearing or subpoena is exactly what I'm talking about for public tracking access. The federal government agencies that I have dealt with all have procedures for handling of confidential data. Changing technology and data storage capabilities have made the old procedures obsolete. That can be solved with a few pen strokes. All that is needed on the government side is to ramp up the existing standards to real privacy guarantees.

I know how the federal building procedures changed. The irony of it is that the Murrah building incident had nothing to do with people accessing the building on foot through the front door, and there's nothing to prove that all the new tracking of staff and employees has made a difference either. I do know that right after Murrah nearly all of the federal employees that I worked with were willing to go along with with the entry point changes but many privately questioned the procedures as they became more and more Big Brother-like. Security, yes. Tracking? Not so much.

I'm far more concerned about private data mining and tracking and the use of that data by private and public entities to track us individually. Again, legislation could address that issue, if consumers flexed their collective muscle and forced it. The federal Do-Not-Call list is an indication that most people want to be left alone. I'm thinking that if consumers were told that credit card companies and retailers are storing purchase and spending data in order to send them more junk mail, a national Do-Not-Mine list would be wildly popular.

[MADem]

10. Who said anything about smiling?

But here's the truth. If that information exists, privacy guarantees or no privacy guarantees, then the capability to get at that info also exists. There's an element of "trust" that has to exist between the government and the governed that this info will not be misused. But at the end of the day, that's all you have as a barrier--trust.

Look at BushCo. He doesn't like a law? He signs it, smiles for the camera, hands out pens, and then writes himself a note: "Ah don't LAHK this law, an' ah ain't followin' it. So there."

So much for trust.

[SoCalDem]

16. And if a national health care plan is to EVER work, it HAS to

have a uniform ID system that proves you are a citizen..that would also help to prove citizenship for voting..and any number of other requirements.

Just issue every US citizen a damned passport and be done with it.. :grr:

They always have to layer things and end up making them more costly..

Passports are for leaving too, y'know:evilgrin:

Some of the most adamant people against ID's are also the ones who would LOVE to have a national health care system..:eyes:

[Fredda Weinberg]

7. We're past swipes ... these are proximity readers

I didn't mind RFID when I worked @ FDNY ... made sense cause I did sensitive work. But the general public? Nope, this is half-baked @ best.

[MADem]

9. The only option is to eschew driving, or take a chance on getting caught

driving without a license. OR, if you plan on going anywhere that you don't want to be tracked, leave the license at home and wear a chadieri.

They're going to start putting RFID in clothing, if they haven't already. They already use it to track shipments of stuff and in stores as well to do inventory.

It's unfortunate, but it's the new reality. There's no unringing this bell, either.

[Fredda Weinberg]

11. It's a new notion ... let's see how it plays n/t

[humbled_opinion]

12. Enemy of the state? n/t

[tesla78]

13. All part of the NAU agenda

North American Union

[AndyTiedye]

14. How do RFID's Like Being Cooked in a Microwave Oven?

[Fredda Weinberg]

15. I predicted there'd be stage 2 ...

Real ID That Spitzer Now Embraces Has Been Widely Criticized

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/nyregion/29real.html