Gunman kills five in US Midwest

[Jackpine Radical]

Source: BBC News

At least five young people have died after a gunman opened fire at a house in the Midwestern US state of Wisconsin early on Sunday.

The shootings took place in the town of Crandon, in the north of the state.

"It's a pretty tragic situation here," said Forest County Supervisor Tom Vollmar, who lives just outside Crandon, a community of 2,000 people.

Unconfirmed reports say that police have shot dead the suspected killer, a local law enforcement officer.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7032971.stm

---

This is pretty close to the area where an American hunter killed a Hmong in an unprovoked murder last year. There must be something in the water in that corner of the state/

[flamingyouth]

1. The AP says the shooter is dead.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071007/ap_on_re_us/wisconsin_shooting;_ylt=ArmszD0LC3gcBCRGwxf81WOs0NUE

CRANDON, Wis. - A local law enforcement employee went on a shooting rampage early Sunday in remote northern Wisconsin, killing at least five people before authorities fatally shot him, officials said.

A dispatcher for the State Patrol who declined to give his full name as a matter of department practice said the suspect is an employee of the Forest County Sheriff's Department and a part-time officer for the Crandon Police Department.

County Supervisor Tom Vollmar said five or six people were dead, and a church official said police reported that seven people were dead. And Gary Bradley, mayor of the city of about 2,000, said Sunday afternoon that the suspect was also dead.

"He was brought down by a sniper," Bradley said

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzteris]

3. this is the 2nd feeble and failing

attempt at humour -

I don't know if you're juvenile or on the wrong forum but you need to change your tone.

[LaStrega]

4. update ... six dead 7th injured

http://www.startribune.com/484/story/1469746.html

[dylanfan]

6. 20 year old Sheriff

The shooter who was a full time Forest County Sheriff and part time Crandon Police officer was 20 years old. How much schooling or training does it take to become a "Officer of the Law"?
GUN CONTROL?? How about SELF CONTROL?

[Jackpine Radical]

7. 20 year old sheriff?

Well, not hardly. This guy was a deputy. For those who get their knowledge of civics from TV, that would be Barney Fife, not Andy Griffith.

Some of them have 4-year degrees, but most graduate from 2-year tech-college Police Science programs.

[dylanfan]

5. Gunman kills 5 in Midwest

Yes please everyone in this country should check their water.
I believe water is the cause for many issues peopl have.

[Irreverend IX]

8. 6 Killed In Wisconsin Shooting: Off-Duty Police Deputy Kills 6, Injures 1

Source: AP

An off-duty sheriff's deputy went on a shooting rampage early Sunday at a home where seven young people had gathered for pizza and movies, killing six and critically injuring the other before authorities fatally shot him, officials said.

The gunman, Tyler Peterson, was 20 years old and worked full-time as a Forest County deputy sheriff and part-time as a Crandon police officer, said Police Chief John Dennee.

Three of the victims were students at the small town's high school, and three were recent graduates, a school official said. The gunman may have graduated from the same high school.

The circumstances of the shooting were hazy Sunday and it wasn't immediately clear what the gunman's motive was, but the mother of a 14-year-old victim said the suspect may have been a jealous boyfriend. The shooting occurred in a white, two-story duplex about a block from downtown Crandon.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/07/national/main3340055.shtml?source=mostpop_story

---

And remember, only the police can be trusted with guns.

[RamboLiberal]

9. Not that it would make a difference

But at 20 he was too young to own a handgun. Age for that is 21. Guess cops get special dispensation. I'm sick of men thinking the only way to settle their jealousies and rivalries is with a gun.

[RantinRavin]

21. Not quite correct.

The age to OWN a handgun is 18.

The age to BUY a handgun from a federal licensed dealer is 21.

[JeanGrey]

33. I was also going to say "a twenty year old policeman?" Isn't

that absurd? But of course, we have them younger than that in Iraq......................

[saigon68]

10. Only about 70 miles from me

He should have gone to Iraq-Nam

He'd now be a hero

[coalition_unwilling]

35. Would you call this "Bringing the war home"? This town in

Wisconsin had sponsored an Iraqi child in need of a corneal transplant just a week ago, according to ABC News. The justaposition is so close in time that I couldn't help making the connection.

[minnesota_liberal]

11. Sheriff's Deputy at age 20?

How the hell does someone get a position as a law enforcement officer at that age?

[saigon68]

12. In Forest County WI

Land Area 1,014.05 sq miles
Water Area 32.34 sq miles
Elevation 1,629 ft at Crandon. 1,938 ft at Sugarbush Hill (third highest point in Wisconsin). 1,875 ft at East Hill.
Number of Lakes 824
Area in Lakes 22,531 acres (35.2 sq miles)
Rivers Lily, Oconto, Peshtigo, Rat, Wolf
Major Watershed Lake Michigan (East), Wisconsin River (West)
Geographical Province Northern Highland
Natural Vegetation Maple, basswood, and yellow birch. North-central, and east-central: conifer swamp.



Population

2000: 11,118

[Bobbieo]

13. Probably because all of the other eligible people are in the miitary.

The US is getting short changed when it comes to law enforcement as a result of this damn Iraq war.

[noamnety]

14. The responses in this thread so far raise a good point.

If the age of gun ownership is 21, one would presume that's because younger adults don't all have the judgment yet or maturity or whatever to be trusted to use them responsibly.

We ship 18 year olds to Iraq, with more powerful weapons, and no/less legal consequences for misusing those weapons.

Why is it okay for Iraqi citizens to be surrounded by US 18 year olds with weapons, but we don't want our own citizens to run that risk?

[Irreverend IX]

15. The handgun ownership age is 21, you can get long guns at 18...

Just clearing that up. Also, military issue weapons are not "more powerful" than civilian-purchasable weapons in the US, but many military weapons do have full-auto and burst fire modes, which are not available in the US without a massive background check and a ton of disposable income.

That said, the idea of a 20-year-old cop is really weird to me, but I guess it's a small town thing.

[noamnety]

19. Thanks for the corrections on the handgun law

However, I will stand by my other. I'm gonna have to consider grenades, TOWs, howitzers, DU rounds, etc. more powerful than civilian purchase weapons in the US.

[Irreverend IX]

24. I thought you were talking about weapons...

That individual troops are able to use at their discretion. Rockets, artillery shells and DU rounds are fired by crew-operated weapons. The military doesn't let 18-20 year old kids fire that stuff whenever they feel like it. The assault rifles and machine guns that most individual troops carry and fire use rounds that are relatively weak by the standards of rifle ammunition.

[noamnety]

25. I'm not really interested in the argument you're making.

The point is, 18 year olds over there have more firepower at their disposal, less restrictions on using it, and less oversight or consequences when it's used indiscriminately.

Yet we don't trust people of the same age to have the same - or weaker - weapons over here, because we don't believe they are mature enough to handle the responsibility.

[Psephos]

16. Soldiers do not face "no/less legal consequences"

To the contrary, after extensive training unavailable to the local constabulary, US soldiers operate under strictly regimented conditions and chains of command, subject to strongly-enforced codes of conduct. Every organization has its miscreants, but unfavorably comparing professional US Army and Marine soldiers to berserk small-town sheriffs is ridiculous, and a slur.

[saigon68]

17. Yup

Now what did I do with the Lynndie leash link ?

[Psephos]

18. It's right there, next to where you misplaced the line in my post where I said

"Every organization has its miscreants..."

[0007]

23. 'Tis wavering in the wind and has become old, worn and tattered

Ya know that description of land in Wisconsin you just posted? This would be a swell place for one to open a one star hotel for scum bags like Scooter Libby, Alberto Gonzales, Henry Kissinger and the normal Neocons.

"Top Security
Holiday Hotel

Luxury without Fear!

Fun without Suspicion!

Relax in a Panic Free
Atmosphere!

[tabasco]

44. She's still in prison. n/t

[saigon68]

53. Nope she's out and strutting

And the thugs in the military are still doing war crimes and Killing children

[noamnety]

20. I wasn't aware that sheriffs had free fire zones.

These are the facts.

When they spray fire to cover an area, there is nothing like the level of investigation that happens when a sheriff does the same thing. Generally there is no investigation. One bullet comes in, lay down fire. Kill everything that moves.

If they perceive that a car is approaching them too quickly, they can (and do) open fire.

Search warrants? No need at all.

Grounds for arrest? Not necessary.

Little or no legal consequences, because they are operating outside of what we would consider any sort of reasonable law, if it were happening here.

[Psephos]

46. Umm, you do understand that civil law does not apply in war, right?

A separate body of military law is used instead. If you're not up to speed on what those codes involve, hit the Google button.

[noamnety]

49. I'm a former SGT.

If I feel like I need to get up to speed on the military, though, I will certainly take your suggestion to google it. :)

The point stands - either men and women are or aren't adult enough to be using weapons at a given age. There shouldn't be one standard of maturity we accept within our own society, and a lesser standard for them to be in other people's countries with weapons.

[Psephos]

54. I agree with your point in this post

but not with your point in the previous post. Maybe I read it differently from what you intended, but I disagree that rules don't apply very much in military operations, and that there are few legal consequences for breaking them.

Sorry, my previous google comment sounds snarkier than intended.

Meanwhile, we can't say that the actions of young individual civilians and those of young soldiers in war can be judged on equal terms. The soldier is under tighter control in most cases. His/her freedoms are severely curtailed compared to a similar civilian. That assessment's based on my own experience.

There are plenty of people who think that because incidents where US soldiers were clearly out of control happened, our army is a lawless or reckless bunch. Actually, that these incidents were newsworthy shows they're not the rule, they're the exception. Every army has its losers. One need only think what's been done by UN peacekeepers (of all things) in Congo, Burundi, Liberia....on and on...to calibrate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30286-2005Mar12.html

I'm embarrassed at some of the ugly comments about US soldiers I saw upthread here. The nastiest comments always come from those who know the least.

That of course doesn't include you, lwfern...nice to exchange views with you.

[Progressive Friend]

48. Does anyone know if the AR-15 he used was his own private weapon or a police weapon?

I do not think that ordinary police officers should have or need AR-15s.

[benEzra]

50. Department issue.

Does anyone know if the AR-15 he used was his own private weapon or a police weapon?

Department issue.

I do not think that ordinary police officers should have or need AR-15s.

I disagree. They are no more lethal than the traditional .729 caliber shotgun, but are much more precise, less likely to injure bystanders, and less prone to ricochet. And, shotguns are pretty useless beyond 100 yards (or considerably closer if bystanders are around), whereas a small-caliber carbine offers much greater effective range.

I don't think general patrol officers need automatic weapons, but I have no problem at all issuing them civilian AR-15's or other small-caliber non-automatic carbines.

In this case, the point is moot; a traditional 12-gauge police shotgun would have been just as lethal at the across-the-apartment distances here.

[saigon68]

51. He used the Fully automatic M-16 he was issued

He fired a full 30 round magazine INTO THE CROWD, and used a second magazine to shoot up another squad.

someone from Swat winged him in the arm with a 7.62 X51 (.308) and then the perp pulled out his pistol and did the old russian roulette trick with a semi auto handgun

GAME OVER

[Solon]

22. Yes they do...

I thought that was obvious, we have had soldiers confess to some horrendous crimes, most involving either murder, rape, or torture, and yet they get a fraction of the sentence a civilian would get in a civilian court, even with plea deals.

[coalition_unwilling]

36. The same "professional US Army and Marine soldiers" who

leveled the town of Fallujah in November 2004? The same "professional US Army and Marine soldiers" who managed to severely wound Giuliana Sgrena and kill head of Italy's secret xservice Nicola Calipari on the airport road, subsequently ruled justified use of force? Or are these all your "miscreants"? If so, then the US Army and USMC seem chock-full of miscreants.

[saigon68]

42. This Nutcase used his fully auto Police AR-15 A-4 carbine

Bought with Grant money from Homeland Security to make forest County Safe from Islamic terrists

He was killed by a Swat Sniper.

[Psephos]

47. Your post is more eloquent about what's in your head than anything I could say n/t

[rodeodance]

26. its basically a small town-conservative types. I know the area.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

32. Not uncommon in rural areas...

It's one of those "college degree preferred" jobs where they like somebody with a degree in law enforcement, but the reality is that with only 11,000 residents in the whole county, that's not likely.

[rodeodance]

27. .jealous boyfriend and he went berserk. He took them all out."

Bradley expressed anger and frustration at the state's handling of the case, complaining about a lack of information for officials and families and the length of time being taken in removing the bodies from the home, reports the Sentinel.

"Man, they paralyzed this town," he said.

The gunman's motive was unclear, but the mother of a 14-year-old victim, Lindsey Stahl, said the suspect may have been a jealous boyfriend.

"I'm waiting for somebody to wake me up right now. This is a bad, bad dream," said Jenny Stahl. "All I heard it was a jealous boyfriend and he went berserk. He took them all out."

[davsand]

28. Does the age difference not register here?

He was 20 and might have been the jealous boyfriend of a 14 year old?

:puke:

Folks, I got a serious problem with THAT situation on a whole lotta levels, not JUST the fact that he was a cop at the age of 20...


Laura

[LisaL]

29. Hmm.

The mother did not say the 14 year old was actually his girlfriend. Considering there are other victims, his girlfriend could have been someone else.

[never cry wolf]

30. The ex-girlfriend was 18, there was also a 14 year old victim

The victims include Peterson's reported former longtime sweetheart Jordanne Murray, 18, Katrina McCorkle, 18, Leanna Thomas, 18, Bradley Schultz, 20, Aaron Smith, (age not available)and Lindsey Stahl, 14, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

[Scairp]

41. No no no

This is what happens when people read something and fail to fully comprehend. The 14 year old is the only victim who has been named. The article clearly says that the party was attended by current students and grads of the local high school. This little shit was only 20 years old himself. I'm sure the former girlfriend he was after and got was 18-20 herself.

[maxsolomon]

31. i propose a mandatory class for 9th - 12th grade males entitled:

testosterone: an owner's guide.

[iverglas]

34. misogyny, the root of so much evil

http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2007/04/virginia_tech_women.html

Mass Murderers and Women: What We're Still Not Getting About Virginia Tech

News: Evidence shows that many mass murderers begin and end their rampages with violence against women. With over 30 dead in Virginia, can we finally begin to take the issue seriously?

By James Ridgeway
April 20, 2007

Of all the lessons contained in the horror at Virginia Tech, the one least likely to be learned has to do with the deadly danger posed by the dismissive way we still view violence against women.

The first person killed by Cho Seung-Ho, a freshman named Emily Hilscher, was initially rumored to be Cho's current or former girlfriend – the subject of his obsession or jealous rage. It now appears that she never had a relationship with Cho, but the rumors were spread quickly, especially by blogs and by the international tabloid press. The UK's Daily Mail headlined the "Massacre Gunman's Deadly Infatuation with Emily," while Australia's Daily Telegraph published a photo of a smiling Hilscher with the line "THIS is the face of the girl who may have sparked the worst school shooting in US history." (The page is still up.) Some accounts stooped to suggesting, with zero evidence, that the victim had jilted Cho, cheated on him, or led him on.

More significantly, local police and university administrators appear to have initially bought this motive, and acted accordingly. In the two hours between the murders of Hilscher and her dorm neighbor Ryan Clark, and Cho's mass killings at another university building, they chose not to cancel classes or lock down the campus. (They did choose to do so, however, in August 2006, when a man shot a security guard and a sheriff's deputy and escaped from a hospital two miles away.) Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said authorities believed the first shooting was a "domestic dispute" and thought the gunman had fled the campus, so "We had no reason to suspect any other incident was going to occur." The assumption, apparently, is that men who kill their cheating girlfriends are criminals, but they are not crazy, not psychopaths, and not a danger to anyone other than the woman in question. (Or, as one reader commented at Feministe sarcastically, "Like killing your girlfriend is no big deal.")

In fact, these attitudes ignore past evidence of both "domestic disputes" and a more generalized misogyny as motives in mass killings. Multiple murders in homes and workplaces often begin with a man killing his wife or girlfriend. Mark Barton, who in 1999 shot nine people in an Atlanta office building, began the day by bludgeoning to death his children and his wife; six years earlier he had been a suspect in the death of his first wife and her mother, who were also beaten to death. In another high-profile case, the December 1989 mass shooting at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique, Marc Lepine was after women, whom he hated, and had a list of feminists he wanted to kill. He murdered four men and 14 women, and wounded 10 more women. <In fact, the 14 people he killed were all women. The 14 people he injured included 4 men.> In September 2006, Duane Roger Morrison walked into Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colo., and took six female students hostage, killing one. And last October, Charles Carl Roberts IV took over an Amish schoolhouse, let the boys go, and killed five girls.

...

And there it blew again.


And remember, no one whom I know suggests that the police be any more "trusted with guns" than anyone else, otherwise than in the course of their employment. I don't believe that going to a party with a firearm to settle some personal score qualfies.

[superconnected]

39. Thanks for posting that.

I'm always amazed how many women they shoot and often in the face...

I'm also amazed at how rare a female going on a rampage is. Okay, nearly unheard of.

[Sukie1941]

37. No curfew in Crandon, WI?

What is a fourteen-year-old girl doing at an unchaperoned party at 2;00 A.M.?

I will bet others were underage if they are still in high school.

HAD they been home, this tragedy would not have happened.

[Tansy_Gold]

38. Ah, yes, let's blame the victim(s) again.

"What was she doing in a bar in a pair of shorts and halter top? She was just asking for it!"

"If he had just kept the fact that he was gay a secret, no one would have bothered him."

"But, your honor, I would never have thought about robbing the jewelry store if they didn't have all those diamonds just sitting there in display cases tempting me beyond my power to resist. It's their fault."

[superconnected]

40. I don't think it's really blaming the victim.

It's certianly not the victims fault.

I think the point is more like wouldn't the parents feel a bit guilty that their kid is out at a party the night they got killed instead of in bed where the shooting didn't take place. Especially if the kid is only 14 and it's 2am. I would feel guilty if I were a parent. And yeah, I know it's the gun mans fault.

I'd also expect the girl to come home pregnant if she's out at parties at 2am and she's only 14. But, that's just me. It's sad she ended up dead.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benEzra]

45. Eating pizza, drinking Coke, and watching DVD's with friends.

What is a fourteen-year-old girl doing at an unchaperoned party at 2;00 A.M.?

Eating pizza, drinking Coke, and watching DVD's with her friends.

For the 14-year-old, it sounded like a sleepover, according to her mom.

[Divine Discontent]

52. it was a sleepover with trusted friends...

they didn't expect a 20 year officer to come in and slaughter them all. I agree with you, the mom had no reason to be overly worried from what it sounds like.

just sickening...