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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 06:46 AM
Original message
Burma: Thousands dead in massacre of the monks dumped in the jungle
Source: Daily Mail

Thousands of protesters are dead and the bodies of hundreds of executed monks have been dumped in the jungle, a former intelligence officer for Burma's ruling junta has revealed.

The most senior official to defect so far, Hla Win, said: "Many more people have been killed in recent days than you've heard about. The bodies can be counted in several thousand."

Mr Win, who spoke out as a Swedish diplomat predicted that the revolt has failed, said he fled when he was ordered to take part in a massacre of holy men. He has now reached the border with Thailand.

A Swedish diplomat who visited Burma during the protests said last night that in her opinion the revolution has failed. "The military regime won and a new generation has been violently repressed and violently denied democracy. The people in the street were young people, monks and civilians who were not participating during the 1988 revolt."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/wor...
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. So that's where Cheney is?
I knew he would give us a clue!
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. taking lessons, no doubt.
or there for more target practice?
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
33. Hey, Dick can hit a face at 50 paces
does he really need the pratice? Maybe for being a fascist junta leader but he seems to have that down too.
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GOPNotForMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. That last paragraph breaks my heart. nt
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
41. Systematic repression...the Chinese do that too...n/t
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. just like what they did in China, they are fighting for democracy
and we are throwing ours away, rude to say but true.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. This needs to get wide, wide coverage.
I hope that the leaders will at least meet with the UN, but I fear that when you start slaughtering Buddhist monks you've already jumped the tracks.

K&R
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. So Awful. So Sad.
There's so much violence in the world - and it only seems to be racheting up.
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. Would Obama meet with the junta without preconditions?
When Obama made the remark he would meet with anyone without preconditions, I thought of Burma. It's a sick government that even before this latest crackdown has been accused of every kind of abuse imaginable. While of the leading candidates, I probably like Obama most, that comment of his really annoyed me, and now annoys me even more.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Your post smacks of bloody opportunism. Give Obama a break, will you. nt
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
82. Why?
How can you influence people if you don't meet with them?

If you shun your enemies, how do you ever change them?
I don't understand why you should be annoyed because someone will meet "anyone" without preconditions.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
83. Why not?
I don't understand why he shouldn't.
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. Oh my god...
They were monks... BUDDHIST MONKS!!!!!!!!!
I'm horrified, truly horrified by this.
If there EVER was a reason for the UN to go in, gun s blazing it's NOW!!!!!
This is beyond unforgivable.
This can not be forgiven and swept under the rug.
This is a fucking JUNTA... Even the scraps left of the US army can wipe them off the face of the planet... and should!
I will loose all faith in humanity if nothing is done.
fucking Buddhist monks... some of the most peaceful people out there... slaughtered like dogs.
They had no need to put their lives on the line like this, but did because it was the right thing to do.
They lost their lives, peaceably demonstrating a cruel regime. Lost for people they can never know because it was RIGHT!
I weep because I know, that there will be no justice, because they are all cowards at the UN, and the US has no leadership, no morals.. punt out!
We are a lost lot. May god have pity on us, for I doubt anyone else will.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. OMFG
China is responsible for supplying all the weapons that keeps their puppets in power and oil flowing to the communist state.


...yet somehow certain people are trying to find angles that we, the US is at fault.

boycott China
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. This is a dreadful reminiscence of cold war politics...
...where undermining foreign governments to make sure they stayed friendly to either the USA or the USSR was the norm. New century, new superpower.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. By Chimpy McFlightsuit's logic, doesn't this mean we invade China?
They're supplying arms to terrorists, after all.
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Means we invade Bolivia
(makes as much sense as what he did in Iraq to avenge 9/11)
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
43. No, no, no, bunkerbuster1, pay attention..
China=Good
Saudi Arabia=Good
Iran=Bad
Venezuela=Bad
Cuba=Bad

:crazy:
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
90. "boycott China" -- good luck...
Actually it CAN be done if one avoids most chains (especially that f*ckin' wal-mart) buys used or doesn't buy at all unless you REALLY REALLY need something...
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Myanmar has no oil. Do not expect US intervention
Our own Junta has made it very clear: We will topple tyrannies ONLY if the country has resources worth stealing, which makes the cost of installing a puppet anti-democratic tyranny worth the investment.

I would use a sarcasm tag, but alas.... :cry:
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Danieljay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Exactly what I was thinking. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. But the vampires wanted a natural gas pipeline there. Look at this:
The Associated Press

By JIM DRINKARD
WASHINGTON (AP) - When four senior House Republicans landed in
Burma three months ago as guests of the country's military
dictators, their official mission was to inspect drug interdiction
efforts. But that was not the only agenda.

During part of the trip, Rep. Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., and an
aide flew by helicopter over the remote area where a U.S. oil
company, Unocal, and its French partner, Total, are building a
natural gas pipeline.

That $1.2 billion project, Burma's largest foreign investment
deal, could be in jeopardy because of possible U.S. sanctions
against the southeast Asian country.

The trip by Hastert, House Majority Whip Tom DeLay of Texas, New
York Rep. Bill Paxon and Ohio Rep. Deborah Pryce was paid for by
the Asia Pacific Exchange Foundation, a tax-exempt organization in
Washington.

The group's president, Richard G. Quick, declines to say where
its money comes from. But Unocal acknowledged it is among the
foundation's sponsors.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/reg.burma/archives/199703/ms...
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. They DO have oil.
And Shell has been bankrolling and colluding with the junta for years.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I sit corrected. Maybe something will be done after all. n/t
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. China is the problem
As you can see above, Burma has oil. China has pipelines though Burma and a military presence. China has prevented the UN from doing anything.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. And Shell Oil has never been bothered by murderous regimes..n/t
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Patriot Abroad Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #47
96. Yes, on the worldwide Risk board, Southeast Asia's pieces are China Red
I don't see the US getting involved more than making token gestures of econonmic sanctions (many of which are already in place to protest their long history of abuses). China's the one with the leash on these guys, but their own treatment of people that don't agree with the government makes it a bit doubtful and hypocritical for them to condemn others for the same sorts of abuses . . . I expect a whole lot of nothing to come out of this, which is incredibly sad for those whom have been punished and lost their lives for it.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
61. Thank you, the last three administration have colluded with this regime,
and it is looking like the next one will continue the tradition.

I'm so proud to be an Amerikan.




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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
45. wrong answer, China has it's oil sucking fangs dug in deep
they will not risk doing whats moral and just if it risks an interruption of exploited natural resourses.
Big Red junta is responsible for tryants on their border.
Maybe Viet Nam will do the right thing but don't count on China or Arab states to sabre rattle. Words from India? maybe. Pakistan? not a peep imo


The UN will proove once again how useless their toothless words are since the junta supported by China won't even meet with the delegation.
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roxnev Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #45
66. Are you saying
Our president is a coward
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I don't know of anyone saying the opposite
:shrug:

he had his opportunity to serve, supposedly support war but went AWOL = cowardice.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
78. I'm saying the 800 pound gorilla in the room is China
you can't handle the truth that China is an 800 pound gorilla and you would prefer to find some tin foil hat reason to excuse them from what is going on.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
79. I am Beyond Disgusted at the Apathy of the American People
Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 08:28 PM by bushmeat
Every one I have told about this acted like they could care less.

Seething is more like it. I wish I could just get up and move to someplace like Scandanavia. Americans are among the sickest insensitive breed there is.

This is the same callous attitude people had about the Jews before WWII. Americans cared little of their plight.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. Is this televised? Do people actually know?
I don't watch television, but my guess is that you won't see this on the news. If people don't know much, they are less likely to care.
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. This is beyond heartbreaking.
Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 09:04 AM by Kajsa
What can we do?

Will diplomatic pressure even register with this regime?

How can we help the people of Burma?
( I still call it Burma)


;(
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Summer93 Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. Failure is with dictator/military in Burma
They have failed to engage in talks with the monks and the people. It is so very sad to see what has happened there. Peaceful people murdered for their peaceful ways. Who would have suspected that peaceful monks could be such a monumental threat to a dictator that the dictator would use guns and violence toward unarmed people.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
52. story behind the story. the government removed artificially low prices on gas
prices soared and the population revolted. ( wonder why the MSM isn't connecting the cause and effect dots ? )
So
pay attantion to what you may have to do in the future mullahs of Iran ;)
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
11. Myanmar = Burma, right? This AP article says Monks "detained" and 138 people killed:
Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 09:14 AM by cyberpj
I was looking for coverage in our local paper and found only this (what's up with that?):

Oct 1, 9:22 AM EDT
YANGON, Myanmar (AP) -- Myanmar's junta leader stalled a U.N. envoy for yet another day Monday, delaying his chance to present international demands for an end to the crackdown on the largest protests in two decades.

A Norway-based dissident news organization estimated that 138 people were killed - more than 10 times the government figure - and 6,000 detained.

After days of intimidation that snuffed out the public demonstrations led by Buddhist monks, soldiers and riot police redeployed from Yangon's center to the outskirts Monday, but were still checking cars and buses, and monitoring the city by helicopter.

Traffic was light and most shops remained closed. Some monks were allowed to leave monasteries to collect food donations, watched by soldiers lounging under trees.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MYANMAR?SITE=DEW...


Ibrahim Gambari, the U.N.'s special envoy to Myanmar, was given an appointment to meet with Senior Gen. Than Shwe on Tuesday in the junta's remote bunker-like capital, Naypyitaw, an Asian diplomat said.

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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Correct. It has been Myanmar since 1987
Some history can be read at the Wikipedia article for Myanmar.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Myanmar is the name used by the brutal tyrants.
We should not use that word. The people of Burma are in despair.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
39. Yep, There's no agreement on the countries proper name.
The military government changed the name of the country from Burma to Myanmar many years ago, but most people point out that the government is illegitimate, and therefore has no legal right to rename the nation. If you use the name Myanmar, you're acknowledging the legitimacy of this brutal monk slaughtering government.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
92. Isn't Burma the name used by colonizers?
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. There is someplace that justifies
US military action. However their is no money to be made. nor Do we actually defend Democracy anymore.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
62. No, we are on the side of the murderers, we gave them the go ahead
for the initial coup. One of our early partnerships with our good friends the Chinese.



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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
88. Thanks to bush*...we have no money or troops to spread Democracy
anywhere. They're all tied up protecting BIG OIL. Our soldiers are nothing but hired guns protecting all the Oil Companies. They are NOT defending America or our Freedoms or protecting us from terrorists. Unfortunately our good patriotic soldiers don't know this. They've been hoodwinked!
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BRLIB Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
17. How come Bush doesn't carpet bomb their military and
knock out their leadership? Seems like a nobrainer to get a quick UN resolution on this.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
44. His Chinese masters probably told him not to...n/t
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. I didn't think they'd do it again...
*sigh*
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. I know redqueen... I was really hoping THIS time....
THIS TIME would be different.

It just saddens me beyond words.....

I don't expect the US to really do much...we have too many candidates and an idiot (idiots) running our country into the toilet...or was that off the cliff. I get confused.


:cry:
DR
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. Invade.
Hey, Bush. People being oppressed and murdered.

Are you going to invade?

No?

Pussy.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. When have we ever invaded to stop oppression and murder?
Certainly not in Cambodia (the Vietnamese eventually did invade and clean up the mess there. I wonder if Thailand, Burma's neighbor, has a military sufficient to help the Burmese people.); didn't happen in Rwanda; obviously Iraq wasn't invaded because of oppression and murder; Hungary in '56; Czechoslovakia in '68; Yugoslavia - well we did get NATO to conduct bombing to eventually stop genocide; Somalia - we know how that worked out; Darfur has been going on for many years.

One thing is that the Burmese military, though fairly large at 400,000, has only fought monks and civilians for the past 40 years, so I doubt they would put up much actual resistance.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
49. I think you're a little off base.
Intervening in the Soviet invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia would have put the entire world at risk of nuclear conflict--not to mention the fact that the Soviets would have kicked the shit out of us conventionally.

Burma is largely comprised of mountainous jungle and was the scene of the slowest moving and most bitter fighting of World War II. For example, the battle of Imphal (actually just on the Indian side of the border, but in identical terrain) lasted for four months with no net transfer of ground to either the Commonwealth or the Japanese, at the cost of 70,000 casualties. The investment of Mandalay in 1945, considered a highly successful operation by the Allies, took the 19th Indian Division almost ten weeks to advance 40 miles against weak opposition. It is worthy of mention that the Japanese, on the defensive everywhere else in 1944, still considered Burma (and Imphal) to be viable offensive territory.

According to General Slim's book, Defeat Into Victory, it was not uncommon for Japanese forces to "retreat" into the jungle only two to three hundred feet away from Commonwealth forces and remain undetected for days or even weeks.

The fierce Kachin people of northern Burma held out against the junta forces while totally surrounded and with no outside help for nearly five years, from 1989 to 1994, before agreeing to a ceasefire. We should expect junta forces, which are much larger and better supplied, to hold out against any external invasion for considerably longer than that.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I wouldn't support the use of the US armed forces against the regime even if it was flat desert land
If people want to stop the massacre there, then set up a modern day Lincoln Brigade and volunteer and go fight. The US military is designed to defend American shores and defend the Bill of Rights. It's not for the purpose of slaying every dragon out there in the world.
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roxnev Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #50
67. I need an explanation
Have you heard of Iraq
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #67
97. Gee, uh, why do you think I hold such a position if I've never heard of Iraq?
Can you guess what my position is on the Iraq war? :eyes:
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Mrs. Overall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. This is absolutely heartbreaking. I hope this is being coverered in the mainstream US media.
K & R
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
29. A few days ago there were reports of Military defections sadly they did not come true
This needs to be posted on all of the major news outlets..


Maybe then they will report what is going on!
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
32. Unspeakable horror
:cry: :cry:
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
34. this is so sad - I feel like humanity lost a little something today.
that they will never get back.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
35. BLOGGER: Pleading for contacts to PM Gordon Brown and Foreign Secretary to take action.
From the blog ko-htike:

(Warning, graphic photos follow the text.)


Monday, 1 October 2007

Please Help Monks!!!!!!!!!!

Reports emerging from Rangoon indicate that the temporary detention
centres based in Yangon Institute of Technology and General Institute
of Technology (GTI) is currently detaining 500 hundred monks.

The monks are refusing to accept Sune (Alms food.....food offering given to monk
by layperson just before 12 noon as main meal of the day) from the
military junta. The local population approached these detention
centres to offer food and they have been turned away by the
authorities. Technically, the monks are unintentionally on huger
strike.

We contacted the International Red Cross's (ICRC) office and UNHCR in
Rangoon. The UN's office refused to help and ICRC bucked the
responsibility on their head office in Geneva.

Please write or Phone to ICRC, e-mail Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister
Gordon Brown. Every governments contribute funds in the running of
the UN bodies and therefore you persuade the PM and the Foreign
Secretary to pressure the UN organisations to take action on or least
ask them if they provide value for money service to the world
humanity.

Please be professional when writing to PM Gordon Brown and Secreatarty
. You can thank the British Government for their efforts so on Burma
and persuade them succinctly with sound arguments. Contact details
are:



ICRC headquarters in Geneva

Postal address
International Committee of the Red Cross
19 avenue de la Paix
CH 1202 Geneva

Fax
ICRC general: ++ 41 (22) 733 20 57
Production, Multimedia, Distribution Division: ++ 41 (22) 730 27 68

Phone
++ 41 (22) 734 60 01


UK prime minister office

10 Downing Street,
London,
SW1A 2AA

Fax
+442079250918
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Patriot Abroad Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
36. Please take the Daily Mail with a grain of salt . . .
Their stories can err to the sensational side. Even so, this is a worrying report;

As Democratic Underground members we should appreciate the fact that we are still allowed to have the freedoms which we do have and use on this site; for all its flaws and recent disturbing moves towards a less free society, America is still a shining example to people that live in countries like Burma.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
76. yabut....
for the city on the hill, the usa sure is down in the valley!. i mean youngster bush has been prez of the usa for 7 fricking years. the bullyboys in burma have kept the leader lady of the burma opposition in house arrest situation for years! meanwhile, the usa, before the youngster even showed up, was applying murderous sanctions against the Iraqi people, which strengthened the Iraqi tyrant, if anything. yes our freedoms are nice etc, but try to ask a dem candidate a question, or try carry some dynamite onto a jet (say you're a coal miner) or try kick junyer's fat arse!
we're free to obey, as 'walker, texas ranger' once told a friend's kid who was rebelling and stealing cars etc. If you want to be free, he told the boy, you'll obey the law....
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Patriot Abroad Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #76
95.  .. . . and that's why I'm happy to be in Ireland
We've got government scandals and problems galore, but at least when the government tried to bring in electronic voting, the courts threw the machines out before there was the opportunity to rig an election. (and if any country ever needed electronic voting . . . each district elects 5 representatives out of approximately 10 candidates, and they recount the votes as each loser is eliminated and apply the votes to the voter's second choice, third choice etc. Even more confusing than it sounds. 6 major parties and lots of independents with a current coalition of Greens and FF conservatives in power and punters taking bets on how long it's all going to last)
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
37. A world of authoritarians and guns isn't a world worth living in.
They're getting their way. They can have it. But I know that the heart of the real human being is not alive in a world like that. I wish we could rid the world of authoritarians. But if I did that I'd be one.
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The Blue Flower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
38. Perhaps pressure on the International Olympic Committee?
If China is bankrolling this murderous government and they want the world to attend the Olympics, then they may respond to pressure from the IOC--if enough people and governments pressure the IOC.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Good idea..
and we can add this to a long list of reasons why China should not be hosting the Olympics in the first place.
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
57. That's where the pressure WOULD work.
China does not want to lose the Olympics!

Great idea. :thumbsup:
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
59. That has already been suggested in SF

From the LA Times


Protesters carry signs outside the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco as they demonstrate against military crackdowns on dissent in Myanmar, formerly Burma. The crowd of nearly 200, including some Buddhist monks, urged the Chinese government to halt the violence and called for a boycott of the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.
(Justin Sullivan / Getty Images)

September 28, 2007

Maybe a thread to kick the idea of a boycott!
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
40. Cowards and thugs afraid of their own people
ruling them selves, what a tragic state of affairs.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
42. LOOKING for VOLUNTEERS for a tiny thing that could help
If I put together a resource thread on Burma, would you recommend it and help me keep it kicked? If I get enough volunteers to help, I'm willing to take the time to do it. My idea is to post the following types of items, and of course people could add more:

-Sites to go to for news
-Online petitions
-Announcements of vigils, demonstrations, etc.
-Additional actions people can take
-links to DU threads on Burma
-Misc.

It's a tiny thing to do, but could help people find what they need to do more. Would you help? If so, please respond here or by IM. Thank you.
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. Get 'er done!
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. Yup.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. Be glad to help though it doesn't compare to what the Burmese people have done. n/t
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Of course not! Just may help get others here to begin taking action
or extend what they're already doing.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
86. I will recommend, and do my best to keep it kicked.
Worthwhile.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #42
98. Yes, I will help keep the monks voice going.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
48. God Bless them ALL !
They are in my prayers.
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
53. It All Comes Down to Oil
It all comes down to oil. China wants it from Burma, so they will not put any pressure on them. Few other countries have much influence on the leaders.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. that's right - the barbaric acts continue
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
60. sad, barbaric and horrific thing happening in Burma
but Murka can hardly claim the high moral ground while being guilty of the same thing on a much grander scale with over a million dead and countless maimed and desperate by the direct cause of their invasion in Iraq.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
64. Evolution stuck in a rut
Seems our rarest commodity in the world these days is actual enlightenment.

:cry:

Julie
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roxnev Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
65. Bush hates brutal Dictators
I bet he has got an invasion force on the way.
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
69. This is a warning that is important for citizens to OWN WEAPONS nt
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #69
77. And then there are the schumer waxman nut jobs who want to disarm amerika
Creepy idiots

Ask any Hungarian who fought the soviets in 56 what they think of that idea
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
70. Burma blogging
Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 05:04 PM by rayofreason
Worth a read

http://www.moeyyo.com/MM /

http://mizzima.com/mizzimanews /

http://jotman.blogspot.com /


Also, for the record, the US government and the Europeans have been trying to get the UNSC to do something - they have been blocked by China and Russia (though China is getting nervous now about the violence). Pity anyone who has to rely on the UN and the NGOs that work through the UN. I love this part -

"The International Federation of Human Rights Leagues (FIDH) urgently called for a special Human Rights Council session to debate the situation and to certify the Burmese authorities failure to implement the recommendations set forth by the special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Myanmar, Paulo Sergio Pinheiro of Brazil. "

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39440

That's right. While monks are slaughtered, international bureaucrats talk about convening "special sessions" to "debate" and "certify" the abuses.
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
71. This is sickening.
Slaughtering peaceful Buddhist monks? It's pure evil. Being Buddhists, I hope that they found some peace in this life and were able to go out with whatever dignity was available to them.

Something should be done, but since we have no economic interests there, I'm not holding my breath.

Things like this are why Buddhism was invented. Its "First Noble Truth" is that life is suffering, and this certainly supports that perspective.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
72. It's the burning alive in crematoriums that really gets me:
Groups struggle to tally Myanmar's dead
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
The Democratic Voice of Burma, a Norway-based dissident news organization, has received reports of soldiers burning protesters alive at the Yae Way cemetery crematorium on the outskirts of Yangon.

That's Saddam/Maliki-style brutality.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
73. LOVE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN BULLETS.
They furthered the resistance. They did not die. They still live.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
74. This is horrible
Why aren't we helping to bring democracy to people who really want it?

:(
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
75. Oh, Christ; I'd had hopes for a miracle this time. Damn.
Redstone
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
80. I don't get it.
Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 09:31 PM by jeff30997
The reason to invade Iraq was(yeah I know):

To remove an evil dictator.

SO?

Ey! Chimpy!

Why don't you remove those scumbags,scumbag?

%?*&?$##?%&*FUCK#$%?&*(*(!!!@!!!! :sarcasm:

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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Do you support an invasion of Burma?
Despite everything going on there, I don't.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. "Do you support an invasion of Burma?"
Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 09:33 PM by jeff30997
Of course not!!!

Please don't get me wrong.I was sarcastic.

I'm sorry if you're Sarcastically impaired, I will edit my post

and add the SARCASM thing.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #80
94. Stronger global sanctions might be called for.
THe last I heard there were still some major free world Countries that were not applying sanctions.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
84. No US invasion of Burma/Myanmar.
The US should not militarily intervene. That's my first thought on this.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
87. Guess who else is a player in Burma? George Soros and National Endowment for Democracy!
The monks may be fighting and dying for freedom, but there are other players in the Burma drama now being played in our TV screens. On one side the military junta, which has strong strategic and economic ties to China, America's rival. On the other side, George Soros and his "pro-democracy" neoliberal front The Burma Project (http://www.soros.org/initiatives/bpsai ) and the neocon/neoliberal National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

We should all start making ourselves smarter about what is really going on in that country, and why.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. thanks for the link
i didn't know about that...

nice to know that the U.S. has such a 'hands off' policy in countries which it has no financial interest....

who am i kidding? cheney probably gets sexually excited reading about innocent slaughter
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-01-07 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
93. I think a boycott of the Olympics (or at least threatening such) is a great idea.
Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 11:14 PM by LaStrega
{edit: typo}

{further edit: added Toles cartoon link}

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/uclickcomics/20070930/cx_t... ;_ylt=Apfe.ztr4YEYBwy1Zhbp0aMVvTYC

{you'll have to cut and paste the entire string}
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lynnertic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-02-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
99. The headline at link now reads
Burma: UN envoy meets top general as regime blames foreigners for violence
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