I-35W bridge collapses into Mississippi River in Minneapolis

[MnFats]

Source: wcco-tv, startribune

Source: Minneapolis Star Tribune

I-35W bridge collapses

By Warren Wolfe, Star Tribune

Last update: August 01, 2007 – 6:30 PM
The Interstate Hwy. 35W bridge over the Mississippi River collapsed this afternoon, dumping at least eight cars and a truck into the water and land below.

It was not clear how many people might be hurt or killed.



Read more: http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1338294.html

[Deja Q]

1. Holy shit. Must be due to the humidity and 94 degree temps out there...

:wow:

I hope the people who fell to the river will be all right... :scared:

[Name removed]

187. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kikiek]

2. This is unreal. I hope this isn't because of cutbacks and lack of inspections. Recent

story said our infrastructures were falling apart. It looks like an earthquake. Right over Mississippi river at rush hour.

[Deja Q]

4. Right at rush hour too. Just think of future rush hours for the next couple of years.

:scared:

[kikiek]

5. No kidding. And who will want to drive over a bridge ever again!

[Deja Q]

8. Jeff Passolt is floored by it all.

:scared:

And he's so right.

I hope this wasn't due because nobody kept up proper checks on the bridge. But given all this heat and humidity during rush hour with all that weight, no amount of preventative maintenance could necessarily prevent this disaster either. :(

[kikiek]

96. I called my brother he does metal fatigue testing. They didn't do that bridge. Thank God!

[Seedersandleechers]

196. Too bad your brother didn't do that bridge.

if someone had inspected it routinely maybe lives could have been saved.:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[kikiek]

204. The state DOT was supposed to be monitoring it. I don't expect the gov will take any responsibility.

[question everything]

242. The bridge got a clean bill of health in 2004 and in 2006

the "construction" that is being done on it is resurfacing.

Please don't start rumors and blames.

[kikiek]

249. That isn't what they reported on ch 5. And actually ch 9 just had on the

same thing, and that the whole country's infrastructure is bad. This is a wake up call. Don't accuse me of starting rumors.

[Robson]

213. All the heat and humidity?

So does that mean our highway and bridge systems aren't able to cope with climate change either?

[rodeodance]

105. its a little pass rush hr in the twin cites (CT)

[NashVegas]

18. A Lot of This Is Affected By the Privatization Squeeze

While public interest groups are fighting - and often winning - to keep multinational corporations from taking over taxpayer-funded assets, Chimpy and Grover and their friends have been slashing the federal budget for upkeep.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3282/a_win_in_the_water_war/

[kikiek]

30. It has to be pointed out to people or they don't make the connection.

[Robson]

79. Privatization aka killing Americans for profits

The only thing privatization has ever done for the USA is make the rich and connected richer. But it does nothing to make America more safe. The profits go into the pockets of the elite class while Americans pay with their lives due to corruption and cut-throat maintainance of our highways and bridges.

You stop it when politicians such as Sen Ted Stevens and Rep William Jefferson, if found guilty, are executed for bribery.

[deadmessengers]

112. BS

You stop it when politicians such as Sen Ted Stevens and Rep William Jefferson, if found guilty, are executed for bribery.

I'm calling BIG bullshit on this. Executing people doesn't stop a damn thing, and it never has. If it did, we wouldn't have one murder in Texas to worry about. For that matter, the Chinese do exactly that (execute public officials for bribery), and it hasn't done a damn thing to solve things.

[The Doctor.]

151. As much as Robson may envision execution, the point is not killing them...

It's 'making examples' of them that is the point.

Better than execution, take all assets from them and barr them from ever holding public office again. Destitute, their family humiliated and on welfare and food stamps while they serve time... a fate worse than death.

And yes, families always suffer when these assholes get away with this stuff. Fair is fair.

[Robson]

169. How about Hari-Kari?

I agree 100% that making them an example of evil, and then stripping them of their material wealth and reputation is something that politicians would understand.

But if execution is too difficult for some to stomach, then how about we simply allow them to commit hari-kari as any respectable public servant in Japan would do?

[The Doctor.]

226. They simply don't have the guts.

Forgive me for that one.

[deadmessengers]

188. "Making examples of them"

That is something I can get behind. I just don't have enough faith in this government to give them the power to kill people.

[The Doctor.]

225. Agreed.

I'm only marginally in favor of the death penalty. We simply don't have the flawless system necessary to implement it right now.

[dickbearton]

166. BS on you...

Executing people doesn't stop a damn thing, and it never has.

If Ted Stevens is found guilty and were to be executed for
bribery, it would stop Ted Stevens from committing any more
crimes. Deadmessengers, you need to be careful or you may slip
and fall into your own Big pile of bullshit.

[deadmessengers]

186. So does life without parole

And, it's not an act of barbarism. The death penalty is WRONG, even when applied to corrupt Repugnicans.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deadmessengers]

245. I've heard that phrased differently, before

My dad tells me that if you were to replace the word "republican" with a hateful G word that refers to Asians, it was a pretty common thing to hear during the Vietnam years.

It was hateful then, and it's hateful now. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[PoconoPragmatist]

294. Sorry

but I'm not ashamed. Most Republicans would wish death on me...and WOULD kill me, too, if they thought they could get away with it.

I'm already counting the days until I get disappeared off to some concentration camp somewhere for being transgendered.

Trust me, once the dictatorship is openly declared, I'll be the first to go...and who the fuck will have my back?? No one...trhat's who.

And it'll be a Republican motherfucker that drags me off to the concentration camp to stick me in a crematorium. I'm sorry, I don't put it past those motherfuckers. Not for a second.

Anyone who wishes death on me...I wish death on them.

[dickbearton]

231. Fine...

So long as Teddy boy does not slip out and commit more crimes.
I agree the death penalty is capricious and barbarous, but
there are exceptions to the rule. Equity and the constitution
require the death penalty for persons like Bush, who commit
treason and war crimes.

[deadmessengers]

241. In the constitution?

Where in the constitution does it "require" the death penalty for *any* crime?

[PoconoPragmatist]

297. The Constitution. Article III, Section 3

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have the Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.



Sorry, I don't see anything about the death penalty in there. Only that Congress has the power to determine what punishment is suitable for Treason.

But, better be careful - I don't think these neocons use the term "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" loosely, I think they really mean to eventually declare all who do not support Il Duce Dickie and Dimson as persons "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" and, by definition, guilty of Treason.

[PurpleChez]

239. Ditto. I thought I was reading a quite from Ann "the ***" Coulter....

imagine my shock and horror to find it coming from withing DU...ITSELF!

[LeftishBrit]

342. So would you execute anyone convicted of ANY sort of crime, just to get them out of the way?

I had assumed that on a board like DU, even those people who believed in the death penalty would want it reserved exclusively for murder!

If Stevens is found guilty, and is thrown out of the Senate in disgrace, this would also prevent him from committing any further crimes in his official capacity.

[LeftishBrit]

343. Yes.

I oppose the DP altogether, and I am even more opposed to its extension to crimes other than murder.

Moreover, once there is the chance of the DP for politicians found guilty of corruption - how many people are perfectly trusting that no politician would try to frame an opponent? I could easily see that happening.

I think that there should be tighter laws about corruption (there are quite a lot of things that are really bribery but are technically legal); and that politicians who are convicted should be subject to severe penalties - but not the DP.

[dickbearton]

139. Yes...

The Criminal Bush is not only destroying the constitution, he
is killing the public trust. Does the future hold more and
more of these tragedies.

[catgirl]

200. Trust me, Minneapolis keeps up on road maintenance

Minneapolis is a very civic city.

[havocmom]

76. Look for push to turn over more roads to corporations for toll roadways

America can't afford to maintain the infrastructure.. oh well, guess we have to sell the highways to the corporations. Too bad for the working poor who will eventually trapped in working class ghettos because they can't afford the tolls. :sarcasm:

Well, the corporations have all our money, by hook or by crook, they can afford to buy what We The People paid to build.

How much disappeared in Iraq? How many bridges would it have maintained?

[Robson]

164. Just like the oligarchs of Russia

The few that are politically connected just like in Russia will be enabled to rob and steal the assets of taxpayers, and then rob and steal from them again in perpetuity and it is fueled by a system of bribery that is excused as lobbying.

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery08032004.html

[dickbearton]

185. More like Fascism in Italy...

Or the Nazi in Germany. We have had oligarchs like Russia,
even before the robber barons of the 19th century. The Corrupt
Bush administration is turning America into a fascist state. 

[april]

102. I couldn't agree more ..we are going to hell gw & Co just take take take

[catgirl]

195. This bridge was inspected 3 yrs ago

It's a solid steele bridge. I've been over it hudreds of times. It's unbelievable.

[Petrushka]

306. Solid steel?

Just curious: Was that bridge built with imported or domestic steel? Also: How much corrosive road salt is used on that bridge in the winter months?

[NickB79]

20. Our roads here are falling apart, and our Repub governor vetoes extra funding

There was a proposition to raise the gas tax 5 cents this spring to fund road repairs, since the gas tax hasn't been raised for almost 20 years. That was vetoed by Gov. Pawlenty. We need billions to repair our roads, but that would conflict with his "no new taxes" pledge.

I hope this finally wakes up the sheep that live in this state and voted for that piece of crap.

[kikiek]

28. It makes me want to cry. He is ruining our state.

[Cha]

180. He should get publicly

scorned over this if it's something to do with cuts. Maybe it's a wakeup call to what else will happen if infra-structure isn't kept up to specs.

[Kixel]

268. We should have told him it was a gas fee and not a tax?

Last election cycle I went to so many of transportation forums where it was a known fact that 50% of our bridges need work. One was actually the I35 Solutions Forum. It was obvious there were problems. I sure as hell didn't think it was going to be 35W, though.

I just want someone to blame!!

[qb]

240. I remember during the Ventura administration

Mn/DOT started a new cost-cutting program called "Acceptable Risk". Channel 11 reported that a 2006 inspection on that bridge revealed cracks in the steel supporting the bridge. I'm freaked out. I drove that bridge twice a day and likely would have been on it a 6:05 if I hadn't decided to go out for a beer in St. Paul.

[kikiek]

253. That was a good beer I am glad you stopped. I was only as close as Uptown today. It is surreal.

[qb]

256. Thanks. I had a friend to hold onto as we watched it on TV. (nt)

[myrna minx]

327. I'm glad you're ok.

I bet that was the best beer you've ever had.

I wonder how Pawlenty is going to wiggle out of explaining his veto? He better not be heralded as "America's Governor" as we know he has higher aspirations than just the Governor of Minnesota.

[frogbison]

3. Star Tribune link

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1338294.html

[Deja Q]

6. It's on the telly right now. Channel 9.

:wow:

:scared:



only 1 injury from a schoolbus reported so far

[DemReadingDU]

7. FoxNews is discussing this on TV

edit to add: now on MSNBC & CNN too.

The whole bridge is gone

:wow:

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

9. On MSNBC now. They're saying the bridge is on fire???? n/t

[Deja Q]

11. Not the bridge, but there was a semi... the crash probably started the blaze.

My vote still goes to heat and humidity causing the road to buckle and fail.

[Skittles]

82. ???

there would be bridges falling all over the country if heat and humidity could do it

[Seedersandleechers]

201. My thoughts exactly. If heat and humidity can cause a bridge to fall

There would be a lot of falling bridges

[Skittles]

224. there wouldn't be a single bridge standing in Texas

:o

[catgirl]

205. Heat & humidity doesn't cause a steele bridge to collapse

Perhaps erosion on parts in the river? It looks like it went down in the center.

[krispos42]

310. The seasonal temperature changes might

It can be -40ºF in the winter time and well over a hundred when you factor in the sun beating down on the asphalt and painted steel. The surface temps may get as high as 120º. That's up to a 170º difference. That's a lot of thermal expansion that has to be taken into account.

If it was not designed adequetely, the 40 or so years of such expansion in the steel trusses and rebar might have weakened the entire structure until finally something critical gave.

I hope all those Republican state congressmen and Gov. Pawlenty are really proud of themselves for not increasing the gas tax by a nickel (and not getting matching federal funds). I mean, that money goes straight to MinnDOT for roads and bridges, and, god, we can't have that, now can we? It's okay if the price of gas flucuates by 15 or 20 cents a day and the oil companies profit, but BY GOD we can't have MinnDOT making extra money, can we? They'll just fritter it away on new bridges and highways!

[PoconoPragmatist]

212. I Call Bullshit!!

Heat and humidity...in fucken MINNEAPOLIS?? If that were the case, there wouldn't be a fucken bridge standing in Houston, Texas!

[Bjorn Against]

237. I don't think heat brought the bridge down...

but it does get very hot and humid here in the summer, we were in the mid nineties today.

[PoconoPragmatist]

298. Agreed

fine....but you have to agree that you guys get nowhere NEAR as hot and humid as a place like Houston, Texas!

and if heat would have brought this bridge down, then there wouldn't be a bridge standing in Houston!!

[Bjorn Against]

316. Have you ever been to Minneapolis in the summer?

It may not be as hot as Houston overall, but it can get near that level quite frequently and occasionally even exceed it. If you don't think Minnesota summers are hot then you don't know Minnesota's climate. Again I don't think heat brought the bridge down (although it may have been a contributing factor), but please don't think Minnesota is cold year round.

[Marrah_G]

322. It does make sense

40 years of alternating extreme heat and extreme cold with constant vibrations from traffic could weaken the metal I would think. Houston doesn't get the cold extremes.

So heat and humidity could have contributed to the collapse.

[PoconoPragmatist]

341. Like Hell!!

You ever lived in Houston?

I can attest that between about November and late january, the most amazing cold fronts come down from Canada, and nail houston every year, and you freeze your ass off!! Try looking at a weather map sometime if ya don't believe me.

Yeah, Houston's hot as hell 10 months of the year, but the other two, you freeze your ass off.

[dflprincess]

350. Define "freeze your ass off"

While our recent winters have been milder, we do have the potential for hitting 20 below in the winter and 100 in the summer and that bridge was old enough that it has gone through a lot of harsh winters. It's not unusual when the summer has been as hot as this one to have sections of pavement explode or buckle - though I haven't heard of that happening this year.

[PoconoPragmatist]

352. Sure. Anything Below 40 Degrees Fahrenheit. n/t

[dflprincess]

356. 40 degrees - above 0?

That's when the spring jackets come out.

[PoconoPragmatist]

357. Yeah. That's When Houstonians Freeze Their Asses Off!

n/t

[Marrah_G]

360. 40 degrees is not even close to "freezing your ass off"

-10, -20 that's freezing your ass off. 40 degrees just means you might need a sweater.

[Marrah_G]

359. What do you consider cold?

[City Lights]

12. I thought they said a tanker truck was burning.

:shrug:

[rodeodance]

120. they just showed an airal view--no smoke

[RamboLiberal]

127. Here's a pic of the fire

According to the MNDOT Web site, the bridge is included in a section of interstate that was currently having overlay work done to it. The northbound lanes of I-35W between Interstate 94 and Hwy. 36 were restricted to one lane from 8 p.m. Tuesday until 5 a.m. today, according to the site. The southbound lanes were scheduled to be narrowed to one lane starting at 8 p.m. tonight.

"Oh my God, this is astonishing," said Kevin Gutknecht, program team leader with MNDOT, of the collapse. He learned of the collapse after a reporter from CNN called him at 6:30 p.m.

http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_6518669?nclick_check=1

[MnFats]

153. Gutnecht is a friend of mine. we used to work together.

he is a wheel in the mn. army national guard.
his job is tough tonight....will they cll the guard out for this?

[DemReadingDU]

13. I think there are vehicles on fire

not the bridge

[MnFats]

14. theyre talking about vehicles on fire below former bridge route

but who knows? maybe using flammable liquids.....repair project was underway....

oh GOD! Twins werre playig tonight --- only 4-5 blocks away

[MnFats]

85. I keep thinking I know someone in that godawful mess.

rush hour. lotta my friends use that bridge. my son went over it a few hours ago enrout to show at 1st Ave.
he is safe.
sister, bro in law were about to cross 19th street bridge (close by) when 35W bridge went down
dozens stopped on 19th street bridge to look. some started crying.

this is our 9-11.
dispatchers on scanner practially crying.
they are having trouble communicating, too......maybe rudi g. could help


and, loss of life aside, this will fuck up traffic for months...will the GOP pull its convention?

[Lifelong Protester]

108. Good point about the convention

This is a terrible event and will be a nightmare for months to come.

[uppityperson]

174. oh damn, my relatives went over 1/2 hr before.

Sib says that beyond the loss of life, getting into and out of downtown will be really bad. This is the big bridge that goes by university, I've been over many times. I really hate things falling apart and hope not too many people got hurt and am sorry for those hurt, killed, missing, and their families/friends.

[PoconoPragmatist]

214. OK....

Look, I gotta call BS on this. You can't necessarily take a swipe at guiliani over this one. Ok, so communications are fucked up. I saw something a while back on america's Most Wanted about this, and apparently, cell phone technology is causing some of these communications fuckups.

[Cybergata]

286. I am so glad your family is alright.

This is very sad.

[bluestateguy]

10. We need to wait for the facts to come out

Prayers for all of the victims.

[azurnoir]

15. There is a school bus in the water

link to story:http://kstp.com/article/stories/S156329.shtml?cat=1

injured being taken tp HCMC level 1 trauma center and Fairview University (not a level 1 but closer)

[cureautismnow]

22. Wolf just said the schoolkids were okay.

God, I hope he's reporting something right for a change.

[azurnoir]

32. Thanks, I hope he's right

Been o that bridge countless times, used to cross it daily.

[Beausoir]

16. Very worried up here in Brainerd, MN. Phones are jammed and I can't get ahold of my sister.

[Bjornsdotter]

25. ......

:hug:

Thinking good thoughts, let us know when you get in touch with your sister.

[qanda]

29. I'm hoping with you that everything is okay with your sister

Please let us know.

[Beausoir]

88. Finally, my sister phoned. All are safe. So funny how I panic in a situation such as this.

They are pulling a body out of the river now on my tv.

Someone won't be making it home this evening.

Damn.

[qanda]

109. I'm glad your sister is okay

It is very sad that someone else wasn't as lucky.

[Lifelong Protester]

114. On KARE 11 they said do not panic on the phone thing yet

the cell towers are overloaded, and the reporter says it is near impossible to get a phone 'line' out, so don't panic yet, it will take a while for everyone to get their phone calls out.

[catgirl]

208. Correction: all phones in Minn. area are jammed

I recently moved from Minneapolis and I'm
worried too. I hope your sister's okay. This is horrible.

[Critters2]

236. My brother couldn't call out of North St Paul

but sent an e-mail. Maybe you should try to contact her that way.

Hoping for good news!!

[NoodleyAppendage]

17. TERRA! TERRA! TERRA!

See how long it takes for Faux Noose to push any terrorism angle.

Infrastructure problems don't play well for the anti-FDR crowd.

J

[Deja Q]

21. It happened on (R) Governor Pawlenty's watch. Who runs the DoT again...

:tinfoilhat:

[Name removed]

202. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[qb]

250. Lt. Gov./Commisioner of Transportation Carol Molnau

Pawlenty pulled a stunt appointing her to double-duty claiming it would save $. Her previous claims to fame were beating Jesse Ventura in a keg-throwing contest and obstructing transportation bills in the state legislature.

[Bosso 63]

325. I will remember that it was on Governor Pawlenty's watch.

And I hope the rest of MN does as well.

[Thor_MN]

182. Every damn local station is bleating "Homeland Security vehicle sighted..."

"While we have absolutely no indication that any sort of terrorism is involved, have have to say that it is their job to check and clear such things. Again, no idications, but 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! 9/11!! "

Heck with it, I'm goning to watch the Twins game.

[cureautismnow]

19. Damn. That's terrible.

I hope everyone is rescued safely. :fingers crossed:

[orleans]

23. msnbc said there was bumper to bumper traffic and this

probably effects 100 cars

(i would imagine at least 100 cars)

how horrible!

[Penndems]

121. Due to construction, only one lane was open in each direction

That's according to an eyewitness report on CNN. The bridge is being repaved.

[Purveyor]

24. Just damn!!! n/t

[TheCentepedeShoes]

26. I'm listening on the teevee in the background

I remember the collapse of the old Sunshine Skyway...:cry:

[karlrschneider]

70. I went over the Sunshine the day before it got knocked down.

And I moved back to Oklahoma and drove over the I40 bridge over the Arkansas and IT got knocked down a few days later...and I lived in Minneapolis for a while! :scared:

[here_is_to_hope]

104. Let me know when you get

out to Coos Bay! Our North Bend bridge is pretty high!


Prayers for those in this mess...

;(

[karlrschneider]

140. I think I probably should just avoid going near bridges.

:silly:

Hoping all the people from this one survive.

[montanto]

353. you live in Coos Bay??

[happyslug]

238. Do you mean the Sunshine Bridge in Tampa?

Here is a reference for the people, like me, who did not know about the Sunshine Bridge collapse
in Tampa Bay Florida in 1980.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Skyway_Bridge

[Cybergata]

290. Please post your car license number so . . .

we'll know not to take the route you follow for at least the next week. ;-) I'm joking. I'm really saddened by the news an joking is part of my way of coping. I have a very soft spot for Minnesota because I've loved a lot of folks who have come from there.

[NashVegas]

27. CNN Says the Bus Kids Are Safe

Some mild injuries but okay.

[Az_lefty]

31. Good Lord, it's suppose to start raining there very soon...

[dflprincess]

149. And we're desperate for rain - but we have to hope it holds off

Thank heaven this happened in the summer when there's still some daylight left. If it had been in the winter they would have had to manage this is the dark right from the beginning.

[DemReadingDU]

33. need 1 more rec

[bdamomma]

34. god, I am getting chills.

our infrastructures are deteriorating.

[Deja Q]

36. Why?

Accidents happen. There is NO proof this is an act of terrorism or anything else.

Worst case scenario, it's probably negligence. Blame the DoT for not having the bridge inspected at proper intervals, though if all our roads are to be privatized, any company being so neglectful* should be given the boot.


* Many politicians have said they wish to run government like a business. Well, this must be what happens when government is ran like a for-profit business. :dunce:

[smirkymonkey]

138. The scary thing it, the bridge wasn't even very old.

It was built in the 60's.

Fortunately, it wasn't very high either.

[eppur_se_muova]

35. link to TMJ4, Milwaukee -- no pix or video yet

Bridge Collapse in Minneapolis
Jenn Rourke
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- A freeway bridge spanning the Mississippi River collapsed during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending many cars into the water.

Tons of concrete collapsed and there were injuries, authorities said. Survivors were being carried up the riverbank.

Some people were stranded on parts of the bridge that weren't completely submerged.

The entire span of the Interstate 35W bridge collapsed about 6:05 p.m. where the freeway crosses the river near University Avenue in Minneapolis.
***
more; http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/8860982.html

[eppur_se_muova]

37. CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/bridge.collapse.ap/index.html

[Critters2]

218. Watched the slideshow. Incredible.

Had an eerie feeling, too. I drove across the Mississippi four times last week--and in places where the river is much wider than that. If our infrastructure is in this bad a shape, there could be some awful tragedies looming. This one is bad enough.

Just awful.

[goodhue]

38. I-35W bridge collapses (Breaking Disaster in Downtown Minneapolis)

Source: Minneapolis Star Tribune

I-35W bridge collapses

By Warren Wolfe, Star Tribune

Last update: August 01, 2007 – 6:30 PM
The Interstate Hwy. 35W bridge over the Mississippi River collapsed this afternoon, dumping at least eight cars and a truck into the water and land below.

It was not clear how many people might be hurt or killed.

* * *

Read more: http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1338294.html

[MADem]

39. HOLY SHIT--they are showing it on MSNBC, what a DEBACLE! NT

[Deja Q]

40. They had a different camera angle, so it puts the location in perspective.

S H I T

[MADem]

43. How could it have happened? Will Bushco wave the terrah flag? NT

[Deja Q]

49. Heat and humidity. Roads can buckle and even 'explode' under intense heat.

I've read about that sort of thing in the past, but this is a new sort of thing - for a bridge.

Might be terrorism too.

Dunno.

Gotta wait for the facts.

I just saw a pic of the roadway in the water. Damn.

[slackmaster]

61. It is pretty hot there today - Temperature extremes are hard on things

It's amazing anything can stand up to the extremes they get over time up there.

http://www.wunderground.com/US/MN/Minneapolis.html

[Deja Q]

64. I've heard of incidents of roads buckling and such due to high temps/humidity

And that may be the ultimate cause of this; last year's heat wave was bad, but this summer has been rather worse.

Occam's razor.

[Robson]

172. Anything can happen under Bushco

We're the Roman empire and the decline started in Jan 2001. Actually it probably started in 1980 under Reagan and continued through the last 27 years including GHWB and WJC when they passed the torch of America to China.

[Xithras]

189. Not quite hot enough for that.

We get road buckling here in inland California. Generally, severe buckling requires temps over 105 that are SUSTAINED for days on end. The last time I remember a road buckling, it was almost 110 outside and we'd had 100+ degree temps for several days straight...with nightime temps staying in the mid 90's. The extended high temps expanded the concrete over a period of days until it finally buckled upward.

More likely, the bridge was corroded, and the added stress of the construction caused a failure.

[PoconoPragmatist]

219. Exactly

I lived in Austin Texas, and I saw road buckling before. And it never happened except in totally unprecedented heat waves. AND I MEAN UNPRECEDENTED FOR AUSTIN. No fucken way Minneapolis gets that damn hot.

[PoconoPragmatist]

217. Yeah....INTENSE HEAT!!

It happened about 12 years ago to a section of Interstate 78 in Newark New Jersey, right over Clinton Street, near Liberty International Airport (the Newark International Airport.) There was a huge fucking trash fire under that bridge when it went!

[HughMoran]

259. That's some pretty wild speculation there

Are you a civil engineer or just having fun shooting from the hip?

[Old and In the Way]

57. Could be a by-product of our GWOT.

Neglected infrastructure.

[Deja Q]

60. Meanwhile, we offshore everything to other countries and improve their infrastructures...

Isn't it time to work on America's again?

God, this collapse is horrible. :(

[Lifelong Protester]

111. report is that homeland (in)security is already on the scene

n/t

[Deja Q]

41. Duplicate post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2937929&mesg_id=2937929

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

42. More infrastructure woes

for the country that once thought it was invulnerable.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

44. everything's breaking. That's what happens when one drowns a government in the bathtub.

:-( NJH

[Deja Q]

53. It happened on (R) Governor Pawlenty's watch.

:popcorn:

[PoconoPragmatist]

220. Yeah. Thank Grover Norquist! n/t

[HysteryDiagnosis]

47. We're spending trillions to fight them over there so our levees and

bridges can crumble over here. I can see the logic now.

[Deja Q]

56. We're also offshoring jobs over there too.

:tinfoilhat:

[Robson]

175. Well said

I must remember your excellent interpretation of Bush logic.

[MADem]

58. Do we know that to be the cause? Or did a nefarious IRA Provo, or other terra equivalent, put some

gelignite under the spans...hmmmmmmmm?

Gelignite facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelignite

If it wasn't terra, terra, terra, it would behoove BushCo to drag out the investigation for as long as possible, with "Well, we can't yet rule it out..." platitudes to make the masses uneasy.

[Deja Q]

62. Time will tell.

Could be real terrorists and not "Bushco propagandaists" either...

For all we know, Santa Claus could have farted under the bridge. :crazy:

Time will tell and I can not nor will not endorse hyperbole.

It could be as much due to the heat and humidity, combined with rush hour that's just overloaded it.

Who knows?

The experts will find the causes. Time will tell.

[MADem]

91. Olbermann is doing a very good job sorting fact from speculation.

Apparently they were resurfacing the thing, and there was a jackhammer involved.

[MaineDem]

312. Keith was awesome!

Intelligence is something sorely lacking in most "talking heads." I really adore his work.

[Bitwit1234]

45. School bush with children, cars on fire

Local News has shown the cars on fire. There was a bus full of school children lot of injury. And people are in the water. The picture they showed at first were awesome. The bridge was at a 90 degree angle from what you could see. Horrible. Especially the children they said had broken bones and were bleeding. They did say no one killed - so far.

[nedbal]

46. fox has aerial video -- really bad -- n/t

[tandot]

59. I just switched to Fox. This is absolutely horrific.

[goodhue]

48. 30-50 cars in the river according to KSTP

Collapsed between 6:00-6:15 at tail end of rush hour; also sure to be carrying traffic to Twins game.

[Deja Q]

50. At least 6 just reported on FOX 9 (Jeff Passolt)

They'll get more #s later on, no doubt.

[Lifelong Protester]

148. Now they are saying over 100 cars will be more like it

MnDoT official saying

[Old and In the Way]

51. I wonder if it was from infrastructure neglect?

That $1 Trillion we've thrown away trying to occupy Iraq could have gone into our domestic economy, rebuilding infrastructure (and creating jobs). Sometimes acts of terror aren't created by brown swarthy ME guys...sometimes it's busted levee's, unsafe mines, and neglected bridges and tunnels.

[Deja Q]

54. Time will tell. I'm waiting for the politicians to show up on the airwaves with their response.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

65. Bush just asked Condi to fetch him some cake and a guitar

His typical response.

[Rick Myers]

52. Crap!!!

People heard a rumble, Ch 5 has a witness from the scene!!!

School bus involved, 50 or 60 cars!!!

[brentspeak]

55. Prayers for everyone on that bridge.

[Skittles]

311. rescue vechicle and personnel is what is needed, not prayers

and fixing the damn infrastructure

[brentspeak]

333. Uh, I never said....

never mind :eyes:

[The_Warmth]

63. holy crap

i was on that bridge earlier today

[kestrel91316]

115. There but for the grace of God............

Sit youself down and have a nice stiff drink. You'll sleep better.

[Olney Blue]

137. Oh my.

:hug: Glad you are O.K.!

[leftist_rebel1569]

232. I was as well

I absolutely can't believe this has happened, especially considering everything seemed perfectly fine when I was there. An hour later, it collapses...I'm really lucky to be alive.

[BeHereNow]

66. Continued collapse of US infrastucture... remember the levees? Manhatten?

They have no desire to preserve the infrastructure of the US-
Expect more and more disasters related to failing public structures.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_519399.html
"The explosion of an 83-year-old steam pipe in Manhattan has touched off the typical hand-wringing from the usual crowd over the precarious state of this nation's aging infrastructure.
By one estimate it would take $1.6 trillion over five years to get U.S. water systems, roads, bridges, dams, etc., up to snuff.

Yet far more has been squandered in areas in which the government has no warrant."

Keep in mind the billions that have disappeared into the rebuilding (NOT) of Iraq.

BHN

[bighughdiehl]

67. This is getting ridiculous

Between this, the steam pipe last week, the NO levees, our healthcare system, our disappearing miidle class, we might as well consider ourselves a third world natiion. I wonder if this would have happened if the money pouring down halliburton's piehole had gone toward, uh, I dunno, our infrastructure and wussy yurropeein' shit like that?

[PoconoPragmatist]

222. Ah, What Do The Republicans Fuckin Care??

Worker slaves are a dime a dozen. Now they won't have to lay off the people who died in this shit.

[Rick Myers]

68. Bumper to bumper traffic!!!

The local coverage is showing a HUGE disaster!

[BrightKnight]

126. .

[eppur_se_muova]

69. Freeway bridge collapses into river during rush hour in Minneapolis (AP/CNN)

MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota (AP) -- A freeway bridge spanning the Mississippi River collapsed during evening rush hour Wednesday, sending many cars into the water.

Tons of concrete collapsed and there were injuries, authorities said. Survivors were being carried up the riverbank.

Some people were stranded on parts of the bridge that weren't completely submerged.

The entire span of the Interstate 35W bridge collapsed about 6:05 p.m. where the freeway crosses the river near University Avenue in Minneapolis.


***
more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/bridge.collapse.ap/index.html

[Bluebear]

71. Bush: Iraq needs our money more than our crumbling American infrastructure

[Gregorian]

72. I predict we'll find it was due to corrosion.

I say that with some experience. We were studying the effects of corrosion on our infrastructure as long ago as the late 80's. And it was found back then to be pervasive.

They say there was construction going on there. That may have been the cause. I'm just pointing out that we have neglected a large part of our system of transportation.

Very sad.

[Rick Myers]

81. We get 35 below in the winter, it was 100 today!

That's gotta wreak havoc on a structure like that. Single steel-span built in '67...

[Gregorian]

122. Expansion, contraction, corrosion. And that's a relatively young bridge..

Rivets start dissolving. Concrete also. One crucial bolt plate comes loose, and that can spell disaster. It's a huge task inspecting just one bridge. And that is a big span in temperatures. Frozen water gets into cracks and expands, making cracks grow over time.

[cliss]

73. Ok that's it. I'm staying completely

off any bridges from now on. I've heard that a huge number of bridges are neglected / our infrastructure is falling apart.

We're hemorrhaging to death financially in Iraq, so there is no more money to maintain our roads / bridges.

[Deja Q]

74. HASN'T THE BRIDGE BEEN WORKED ON FOR THE LAST 2 MONTHS BY A CONTRACTOR?

(you get what you pay for :cry: )

[goodhue]

86. Indeed, they were working on it at the time!

[Deja Q]

116. OMG

:(

I heard it had been worked on the last couple of months, I wonder if there were... undocumented problems. :(

A low bidder contract... Nasty if true. :(

[Gregorian]

125. They were resurfacing.

Pretty benign action.

[Deja Q]

136. Aye. Just a lot of unfortunate circumstances at just the wrong time.

I no longer think it was due to cutting cost corners or anything else. Just construction during very hot weather at the worst possible time, with semis to boot.

In which case I owe the governor and DoT an apology for being snap to a previous thought I started expounding on.

Of course, maybe the governor cut funds and therefore the DoT cut corners too; but given this was a major roadway and not a minor one, they really does not seem likely.

[Gregorian]

145. Actually I was wrong about that. It was more invasive than just resurfacing.

They're saying they were widening the northbound lane. And they were pile driving footings. That very well could have cause increased stress through vibrations in the ground.

But I still say the cause would be secondary to something like corrosion. It's going to take months to sort it out. I tend to jump to conclusions. But there aren't too many to jump to. Poor design? We made significant stress analysis progress just since even the late 80's. We'll see.

[goodhue]

179. actually there was not pile driving near the bridge, the national media got that wrong I think

There is pile driving ongoing at 35W Diamond Lake Bridge and Minnehaha Creek Bridge (near where I live) but that is about six miles from bridge disaster. The Mississippi bridge work did involve jack hammers and vibration however. So I wouldn't count out construction vibration, heat and explosions as cause.

[dickbearton]

216. No apology...

You owe the (R) governor no apology, if he cut the funds. If
it was not a direct result this time, it very likely will be
the next time. Corrupt Republicans supporting criminal war in
Iraq, but not supporting roads in America.

[here_is_to_hope]

134. Here is a map of the area they were

working on in red...

[Lifelong Protester]

123. Only superficial repairs to the surface

nothing on the underside or infrastructure

[sandnsea]

75. OMG, this is unreal

It doesn't even look like that old of a bridge.

[smirkymonkey]

154. It's not, they just said it was built in the mid 60's.

I'm stuck on an island (Manhattan) surrounded by heavily used bridges, many of which were started (and finished) in the late 19th/early 20th century. And they're very, very high. And I hate bridges to begin with.

And Guiliani used to be our mayor.

[Faygo Kid]

77. All the best to those in Minnesota. The rest can wait.

To all, the very best. May this not be the tenuous thread upon which Bush/Cheney declares martial law.

[Rick Myers]

89. What a shocking thing to happen!!!

We are devastated... We drive that road alot, not every day, but enough to thank our lucky stars!

The local coverage is showing MUCH MORE detail, it is surreal, looks like toys!!! Choppers are buzzing everywhere. Sirens!

[Faygo Kid]

107. Take care. This will be a lifetime memory.

I have so much family in Minnesota that I don't know, as Dad split when I was 9. Strange to have first cousins I don't know, but I am a Minnesotan in many ways, and wish you the best. This will be a lifetime memory for you and your family, as to knowing where you were when this happened. So take care, and know we are with you.

[PoconoPragmatist]

223. No Chance

What's his excuse? OK, martial law in minneapolis...how does it justify it anywhere else?

[Flaxbee]

78. we're too busy spending money to blow up bridges in Iraq to

invest in this country's own infrastructure.

[Robson]

80. Bingo

A trillion spent in Iraq = under maintained American bridges.

[Lifelong Protester]

155. double Bingo

How can we not see these things and wonder about the billion or so a month we are blowing 'over there'.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

83. They're interviewing a structural engineer on KSTP

One of the reporters mentioned an inspection report about cracks in the superstructure, dated May 2006.

The engineer kind of gasped and said that such cracks could have caused the collapse.

Yup, neglect of infrastructure. Cracks in a bridge should be an emergency repair.

[SydneyBristow]

84. THE GREAT NEWS IS

There are hospitals RIGHT next to the bridge, the U of M and fairview, and HCMC is about 5 min away, so as sad as this is, there are alot of rescue personel around, including i heard on KARE 11 that there are red cross headquarters at the end of the bridge...

pray for all

:'(

Syd

[mikelgb]

87. all kinds of crazy

[Bluebear]

90. KO repeats divers in water now looking for survivors/victims

[tinrobot]

92. My daughter lives in Minneapolis

...and all the phones are jammed (probably with people like me calling to make sure their loved ones are OK.)

Chances are she's perfectly OK, but still -- get some more phone lines, Minneapolis.

[Beausoir]

97. My sister just got through to me. Keep trying. Prayers to you!

[snacker]

150. I just got through to my daughter.

She is safe, but says she uses that bridge daily. She was trying to call us but couldn't get through on her phone. I haven't heard from my brother yet and can't get through, but I'll keep trying.
Let us know when you get through to your daughter.

[Qanisqineq]

243. I have a sister and several cousins living in the Twin Cities, too

yikes, scary!
:scared:

[MnFats]

93. as an aside: will GOP yank its convo? cause traffic in twin cities to be fucked for months

....can you replace a huge span like that soon enough?



i live in roseville, work in bloomington....it's going to be a nightmare for me.

[MnFats]

95. Has Pawlenty said ANYTHING yet? even 'we regret this tragedy' would do.

he's going to take a grilling on this.

[question everything]

248. Yes, appeared with Rybak

talking about the calamity and about his talk with secretary of transportation, I think.

Coleman and Klobuchar are flying in with the secretary tomorrow.

[Beausoir]

101. WOW! Interesting point. Very interesting. This will certainly snarl things for months.

[northernsoul]

272. Months? We've been hosed for years

and now it's going to be worse for the next foreseeable decade if you ask me. I'm really sorry to hear about your commute. I have to get from St. Paul to Plymouth, so I'm sure I won't be doing a whole lot better. Be well.

P.S. I really hope that this does put the kibosh on the convo.

[rodeodance]

abc said it Buckled--------reporting now

[rodeodance]

99. i know people up there----been over it a thousand times. used to work there

[rodeodance]

103. they had a view from the air------whow, just whow. Its gone

[Deja Q]

118. I thought as much.

[Beausoir]

94. MN Gov. Pawlenty has been busy as Co-Chair of McCain's Presidential campaign. Just FYI.

Pawlenty will have his hands full now.

[dflprincess]

143. And didn't he refuse to allow the gas tax to be raised during the last legislative session?

Money that would have gone exclusively to maintaining our roads.

I have to drive over the Cedar Avenue Bridge to get to and from work - I feel awfully queasy about that.

[wellst0nev0ter]

293. "Squatskey" (eom)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

98. I hope everyone is able to be safe

and those who are injured have a speedy recovery--I have many friends in the area, and have emailed them to see if they are ok.

[Hobbs]

100. A good example

of how those Alaskan earmarks for a "bridge to nowhere", could be used instead for good cause of rebuilding decaying infrastructure.

Are we awake Americans? Rebuild America by ending Bush wars.

[goodhue]

110. I not sure it was decaying infrastructure

Rather I think the contractors working on the bridge at the time may be the causation

[Bluebear]

124. You think the contractors cut the wrong bolt or something & wrecked the bridge?

[goodhue]

135. Jackhammers, heat and explosions

Are the kind of things I'm thinking

[kikiek]

141. Local news reported a recent MN DOT report said there was start of metal fatigue. They

said to monitor it there were cracks. I'm betting the state dropped the ball. Impeach Pawlenty.

[YDogg]

113. Amen. And welcome to DU!

:hi:

[jgraz]

106. Thank GOD this wasn't TERRORISM

Whew! Just crumbling infrastructure resulting from decades of underfunding and neglect. Nothing to worry about here.

[Deja Q]

131. They have been working on the bridge; repair or expansion...

All of this could be a real accident, not due to neglect either. (it's a point that must be mentioned, as I've been cynical in all this too, nor should I (or any of us) be.)

[Skittles]

173. should we thank God it was for some other reason?

:(

[David__77]

246. That, I'm sure, was sarcasm.

...

[eridani]

296. Who needs terrorists when we have Republicans?

There have been 30 years worth of attacks on the very notion that there is such a thing as the public good, and we are seeing the results in NOLA and now.

[jgraz]

314. Very well said

:thumbsup: :applause:

[Penndems]

117. A horrible, horrible tragedy - prayers to all

An eyewitness reported on CNN that between ten and twenty vehicles fell into the water. :cry:

[deadmessengers]

119. I was on that bridge 2 weeks ago

I visited Minneapolis on business 2 weeks ago. I went over that bridge to go see a customer in St. Paul. Mrs. Deadmessengers always freaks out when I go away on business, usually over stuff like this...

[rodeodance]

128. breaking news. no word on surviors, or deaths, or injuries. 450 ft across, 1970 it opened

[rodeodance]

130. happened at 6 pm CT

[rodeodance]

133. good scens showing now.

[JVS]

129. uffda!

[RPM]

266. Must be due to the errant throwing of a peanut butter sandwich....

either that or some insolent child opening his car door on the freeway.

You know who you are.

Seriously, been over that bridge enough times to wince at this news.

[bluestateguy]

132. I remember the South Padre Island (TX) Bridge collapse in 2001

8 people were killed. This was widely ignored by the national news media because it occurred four days after 9/11.

[PoconoPragmatist]

227. I Remember That!

I was living in Texas at the time. There were folks stuck on the island, who could not get to the mainland for about a week, until they got a reliable ferry up and running while the bridge was being rebuilt.

[happyslug]

252. Wikipedia on that bridge collapse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Isabella_Causeway

[rodeodance]

142. Twins game, which was scheduled to be begin at 7:10 p.m. at the nearby Metrodome.

The collapse occurred at the end of rush hour, when cars were bumper to bumper in traffic, many trying to get to the Twins game, which was scheduled to be begin at 7:10 p.m. at the nearby Metrodome.

[question everything]

251. And they kept at it - after an annoucement on the PA

did not want to stop it and deal with a crowd of 20,000, or so, that would clog the streets or would try to see what was happening.

But tomorrow's game is postponed.

[Hardrada]

144. Most of my family and our friends also are in Twin Cities

area. I called Bob, one of our old friends, but no luck on the cell phone. We were just over that bridge several times about two weeks ago when retrieving my car which I had in for repairs when we were up from Iowa. I remember when there was NO bridge there and some residents were complaining about the nuisance the I-35W bridge construction was going to make.

[Worst Username Ever]

146. 5 blocks from my house, my wife and I drive on it about 4 times a day

On the phone trying to check on all my neighbors. I feel for peoples' families tonight. Even without injuries, that bridge collapsed basically cut my city in half.

[rodeodance]

147. The arched bridge, which was built in 1967, rises about 64 feet above the river.

The arched bridge, which was built in 1967, rises about 64 feet above the river.

[goodhue]

152. 40 years is not that old for a bridge

The surface but not the bridge support was being worked on. Only 2 of the 8 lanes were open at time.

[RamboLiberal]

161. Info on the bridge

• Structure ID: NBI: 9340.
• Location: River Mile 853.20.
• River Elevation: 725 Feet.
• Highway: I-35W.
• Daily Traffic Count: 140,000 (2002).
• Bridge Type: Steel Arch Deck Truss Bridge.
• Length: 1,907 Feet, 458 Foot Longest Span.
• Width: 8 Traffic Lanes, 108 Feet.
• Navigation Channel Width: 390 Feet.
• Height Above Water: 64 Feet.
• Date Built: Opened November 1967.


Claim to fame: was built with a single 458 foot long steel arch to avoid putting any piers in the water to impede river navigation.
This bridge features an anti-ice system. A series of PVC pipes carries a deicer fluid to outlets that are drilled into the deck of the bridge. When the temperature for ice is right, the deicer fluid is pumped onto the bridge deck. This system has proven to be successful enough that it is being installed on other bridges in Minnesota.

http://www.visi.com/~jweeks/bridges/pages/ms16.html

[goodhue]

163. good info

I've been over this bridge many many times
But no more

[Xithras]

199. Very interesting. The pics reveal two possibilities....

Possibility 1: Notice that the piers at the far end of the bridge are in the river. Depending on the way the foundation was built, erosion could have weakened the foundations.

Possibility 2: Look at all the rust at the point where the steel truss meets the concrete pier. Can you say corrosion and lack of maintenance? How deep was that rust? Instead of spreading the load out, this bridge design focuses the structures weight on four relatively tiny points. If even one of those corroded enough to fail, the whole bridge would have come crashing down.

[MilesColtrane]

288. I also heard that lanes were closed for resurfacing.

I wonder if having all of the load on one side of the bridge, say where that corrosion in the picture is, could precipitate a collapse?

[dflprincess]

156. Oddly, the last thing I heard on the local news at 6 before I turned the tube off

and went for a walk was that engineers are concerned that the Washington Ave Bridge (also over the Mississippi) is not strong enough for the proposed rail line between Minneapolis and St. Paul.

I didn't hear about this until I turned Countdown on at 7 - then, I swear, it took me a good 5 seconds to actually absorb and understand what I was seeing.

[happyslug]

267. This may solve the Rail problem

The chief Reasons Covered Bridges were built in the 1800s was they are STRONGER then flat bridges. This has to do with the fact the wooden superstructure that made covered bridges covered bridges carried part of the weight of the bridge and spread it out along the whole length of the bridge. For the same reason Railroad box cars are stronger than flat cars made with the same materials, the side and stop (the superstructure of the Box Car) strengthens the box car. For this same reason bridges today often have a steel superstructure (I see this bridge did not). Such a structure carries part of the Weight to other parts of the Bridge and permits heavier weights to be carried. An example of this is the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, which is BOTH A RAILROAD Bridge and a AUTOMOBILE BRIDGE. Because Trains can be heavier, the Train travels in the BOX part of the bridge BELOW the Highway section. Thus the
superstructure of the Railroad Bridge is also the base for the Highway section of the bridge.

My comment is when this bridge is rebuilt (And it will be) it might be better to design in to carry the proposed rail connection BELOW the road surface in the box part of the Bridge. It might be beater to build both sections with a Steel superstructure to distribute the weight better.

One question, was this bridge riveted or bolted? 1967 is a little late for it to be riveted. By the 1960s most construction had switched to Bolts from rivets. Technology had permitted the introduction of high strength nuts and bolts that were BETTER at holding things together than rivets. In my home town of Pittsburgh the last bridge that was riveted was the Fort Pitt Bridge in 1959, but the state really did not build any new bridges in the 1960s do to a budget shortage that was not solved till the 1980s when gas prices dropped AFTER gasoline taxes were raised in the late 1970s. so it is possible that it was riveted.

Both Rivets and bolts permit steel to "Give" do to change in temperature. thus both were while liked from a engineering point of view (I am NOT an engineer, just an observer of technology). Neither is as strong or as cheap was welding. We;ding is Cheaper and Stronger, but permit almost NO "give" in the weld. Thus where you have changes in structure shape (such as do to hear and cold) welding is avoided. Excessive rust on a rivet or a bolt can do the same, cause excessive stress do to the almost of the ability to "Give". Since this bridge had an "Deicing" system that permitted direct flow of deicing liquids (Probably salt based) throughout it surface and then down its sides, the whole series of bolts UNDER THE ROAD BED may have been for all practical purpose "welded" shut and did not give. This would put more pressure on the rest of the bridge and the weak point is the connections to the piers. Whatever is the weak point would give do to the excess stress on the bridge as a whole.

As to the paving, that may have added HEAT to the system over and above the natural heat. This would add even more to the strain on the bridge. I am sorry, I suspect the bolts but NOT the ones in the Picture. The bolt I think they caused this bridge are the ones DIRECTLY UNDER THE ROADWAY. These froze solid do to rust and could NOT give do to the heat of the day. Something had to relieve the pressure for the Bolts acted like Welds. What gave was the next weak leak, which appears to be the
bolts connecting the bridge to the piers. Thus the bolts on the piers started to snap. As one bolt snapped then added pressure on the rest of the bolts increased till all of the bolts on the piers snapped and down went the bridge.

I can see this going on on both Piers, as a bolt snapped on one pier it put pressure on the Bolts on the that pier BUT ALSO ON BOLTS ON THE OTHER PIER. Thus you may have had bolts on BOTH piers going at the same time. This would explain the collapse of the Bridge FROM both piers (Through the Second pier may have broke after the first pier did, but I am going by what survivors are saying, the bridge "Shaked" and then fell almost flat into the River).

Side Comment: Watch for other bad news to come out tomorrow. Everyone will want to know about this disaster so a lot of people who have to release bad news but been delaying. will release it tomorrow to the public knowing people minds are one something else. A lot of Bureaucrat do this to protect themselves as while as does politicians so keep an eye on bad news dumps.

[MnFats]

157. Oh, this is just FUCKING GREAT. A thunderstorm approaches twin cities...

...
map on wcco.com shows small but strong thunderstorm approaching the bridge area.

[kikiek]

159. It went through here already. We are west and didn't get the worse of it. Mpls has the red part

over it. I worry about the rescuers.

[wellstone dem]

158. Prayers for all in MPLS

My nephew who works in a building on one side of the bridge is ok. Now waiting to hear about co-workers that work downtown.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

160. Reminds me of the Sunshine Skyway....

Reminds me of the Sunshine Skyway bridge collapse over Tampa Bay back in the 1980s. Only difference is that was clearly caused by a boat colliding with the bridge.

[goodhue]

162. 1-3 fatalities so far

KSTP says AP reports 1 fatality, CNN reports 3 fatalities.
I fear these numbers will grow
Mn/DOT press conference at 8:30 or 9 pm CST

[Lydia Leftcoast]

165. Yes, one of the local residents interviewed said that she could tell

that some of the people were dead. :cry:

[lonestarnot]

167. Personal safety no place to be found these days.

[MnFats]

168. Mpls Dilema: how to disperse 22,000 Minnesota Twins fans? in dome now...

stadium is about 3-4 blocks from bridge collapse.
some of the victims were probably on their way to game.

and the approaching storm is throwing lightning.

great. just great.


prayers and good vibes for your Mn. brethren, please.


(my co-worker's fiance is OK, it turns out, and both my kids are on their way home.
but GOD what a tragedy for some others tonight.

[Hekate]

178. Wise thing would be to let them out in clusters; hope they have an evacuation plan...

Keith O mentioned keeping the game going as a way of keeping the crowd where it is for now, but it occurs to me that a sensible evacuation plan with crowd control would keep people in their seats, use the PA system to inform and update them on events, and let them go by sections and rows in order to minimize chaos in the stadium, parking lot, and surrounding areas.

But you never know if a given venue has a sensible evacuation plan in place until there's a crisis. I guess the next few hours will tell.

I'm so very sorry for the good people of Minnesota.

Hekate

[rainbow4321]

170. Collapsed onto "businesses under the freeway"

According to http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_213191448.html


All four lanes of the Interstate 35W Mississippi River bridge near University Avenue has collapsed into the river and onto businesses underneath the highway at 6:05 p.m. Wednesday.
-------------------------

Crap...how many people were in the crushed buildings???

[goodhue]

181. not much in the way of buildings underneath bridge

Some industrial warehouse type structures if any

[rainbow4321]

192. That's good

Didn't mean to mislead anyone here, just wanted to share what I saw on a local website.
Hopefully there were no workers in those industrial warehouses...and that there are no flammable/explosive materials stored there.

[rodeodance]

233. There is a scenic pathway with shops/bars along the river (and UNder the bridge). I have

walked that path many times. The locks are located there also

[goodhue]

317. The shops & bars are all well north of the bridge.

The lower st. anthony lock & dam are immediately north of bridge on river but I'd don't believe they were affected structurally by the collapse. And then north of the lower lock is U steam plant, then moving north comes the shops & bars. I really don't think there were any structures below.
Here is a good map . . .
http://www.minneapolis.org/travelinfo/riverfront_map.asp

[goodhue]

318. a couple industrial train cars were crushed

[OlderButWiser]

171. I'm surprised

by how many intact cars there are. I'm hoping that means they survived. It's the ones you can't see that are a worry. Bureid under rubble or in the water.

[uppityperson]

176. Link to more pictures

http://wcco.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_213194533/view?slide=15

[ryanus]

177. Fatigue Assessment of Deck Truss of Bridge 9340 TH I35W over the Mississippi River

"This research project resulted in a new, accurate way to assess fatigue cracking on Bridge 9340 on I-35, which crosses the Mississippi River near downtown Minneapolis. The research involved installation on both the main trusses and the floor truss to measure the live-load stress ranges. Researchers monitored the strain gages while trucks with known axle weights crossed the bridge under normal traffic. Researchers then developed two-and three-dimensional finite-element models of the bridge, and used the models to calculate the stress ranges throughout the deck truss. The bridge's deck truss has not experienced fatigue cracking, but it has many poor fatigue details on the main truss and floor truss system. The research helped determine that the fatigue cracking of the deck truss is not likely, which means that the bridge should not have any problems with fatigue cracking in the foreseeable future. As a result, Mn/DOT does not need to prematurely replace this bridge because of fatigue cracking, avoiding the high costs associated with such a large project. The research also has implications for other bridges. The project verified that the use of strain gages at key locations combined with detailed analysis help predict the bridge's behavior. In addition, the instrumentation plan can be used in other similar bridges."


http://www.cts.umn.edu/Research/ProjectDetail.html?id=1999014

[kikiek]

191. That was the 2001 report. There was a May 2006 one mentioned that is being reported

as having talked about cracks in the metal of the superstructure.

[LNM]

183. Thunderstorms coming in now

Light rain falling but I'm concerned about the lightning

[wryter2000]

184. Well wishes to the people of Minneapolis and MN

Here's hoping injuries and deaths are mercifully few. :cry:

[LNM]

190. Thank you so much

We've checked in with our friends and children and all are safe, but this is very scary.

[Divine Discontent]

193. I pray to my maker for all those poor people... I cannot even IMAGINE how terifying

terrifying, just terrifying... I'm so sorry for those people. As others have stated, yes, this is an accident but that TRILLION dollars wasted in Iraq should would come in handy for those cracks they had seen last week. God bless them all and their families.

[LNM]

194. Rain has stopped

All quiet, weather wise, now.

[Botany]

197. Blessings and prayers for their spirits, family, and friends

This is not a right v left time but a time for all Americans to show they
care.

:cry:

[Penndems]

198. KARE: Twenty-eight people injured thus far, six critically. One drowning victim.

n/t

[Xithras]

203. Sadly, those are only those recovered thus far.

I'm sure all of those have been recovered from the parts of the bridge over land. It's almost a gurantee that all of those who went into the river are dead. The 60 foot drop alone would have caused critical injuries, so I seriously doubt that many of those drivers managed to swim to shore. If 50 cars went into the river, I'd bet on a minimum of 50 dead.

[Penndems]

207. Deepest condolences to Minnesotans, particularly those who have suffered losses

Hope and pray for miracles. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[pimpbot]

210. Most of the bridge fell straight down

It seems that most of the people in cars would have been okay. In fact being in a car would have been better than just standing on the bridge since the car's suspension would have taken some of the blow of the fall. I'm sure it still was a hard hit on landing.

[Odin2005]

206. Oh. My. God.

Pawlenty better not even DARE to veto transportation funding after this. :mad:

[PoconoPragmatist]

209. Christ, I Hope No One Got Seriously Hurt!!

Of course, they probably did... :cry:

[rodeodance]

229. 6 people reported dead and 25 injured so far. Resue continues.

[rodeodance]

230. I went for walk along the path of the river (and locks) just a month ago. Hard to imagine

the beatiful arch bridge just gone!

[Penndems]

215. KARE: Go to the Holiday Inn Metro Seven Corners Ballroom if you need info on loved ones

n/t

[Bluebear]

221. 6 dead so far, 9:09 cdt press conference

[detroitsuperfly]

228. I've driven that bridge many times

I moved from there a few mos back. About 2x a week I drove that bridge. It was always frightening cause it is so high above the river. The most frightening thing for me tonight is that I can visualize exactly what the people were seeing when the bridge fell. I wouldn't have been on it that time of night. I always avoided 35W at rush hour cause its so insanely busy.

I'm just shocked1

[RamboLiberal]

234. Listen to this report from KSTP - beam cracking reported in 2006

Talking with an engineer. Too early of course but from what reporter read engineer found significant.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S156551.shtml?cat=1&v=1

[happyslug]

277. Structural CRACKS? CRACKS IN BEAMS, This bridge should have been CLOSED.

All bridges have some cracks, but when a REPORT report STRUCTURAL CRACKS, that means you have MAJOR breaks in the Steel beams. Over time these Cracks will expand. Something has to be done about them. The preferred solution is to replace the Crack beam, which takes times and the closing of the Bridge. Another solution is to weld the crack solid, takes someone who knows how to weld HEAVY steel beams AND how to get the welding equipment to the job site i.e. to the beam. A third solution would be to drill holes where the cracks ends. This is NOT the preferred solution but the drilling of a hole will prevent the crack from spreading till you have time to do proper repair. I suspect NONE OF THIS WAS DONE because Minnesota Department of Transportation (MDOT) was caught in vice. It did NOT have the money to do any repairs (Except for repaving which is relatively cheap) BUT could not closed the Bridge do to Political concerns (No one wanted to close the Bridge 3-4 years till the money was available to do the repairs). I fully expect to hear that some engineer recommended that the Bridge be closed, but the political heads of MDOT preferred to hope the bridge would NOT fail .(This was probably a management decision made by a Civil Service employee, but all he was implementing the policy of the Governor to minimized expenditures to show the state did NOT need that 5 cents a gallon Gasoline Tax Increase).

[Strelnikov_]

279. From what they read it was addressing 'Approach Spans'

Sounds like cracking that is often found near the welds in longitudinal steel beams where the diaphragms are attached. The welding changes the properties of the steel, making it susceptible to fatigue cracking.

The failure was in the main span, a three span continuous truss. The failure occurred no more than one panel out from the pier.

It was probably fatigue, but the report they were reading was addressing another part of the bridge, really a separate structure from a structural standpoint from what failed.

[Rainscents]

235. This is so sad...

More so, we spend much money on un-necessary war but, we can't spend money on safety of our highway, health-care, environment, etc...

[rodeodance]

244. you can see the walkway and locks below the bridge on these pics:

http://wcco.com/slideshows/local_slideshow_213194533/view?slide=15

[lebkuchen]

289. I look forward to Bush's condolences

I hope it includes his explanation for why we're spending over $1 trillion in Iraq while our country's infrastructure is falling apart.

[AllyCat]

247. My God what a tragedy

Did you all look at the photo gallery for the news website? Scary photos. It looks like it fell on a freight train. The semi on fire made me really sad. Hope the driver made it out okay.

My prayers are with the victims and their families. Speedy recovery to those who have survived.

[coffeenap]

254. 7 fatalities now reported via MSNBC. nt

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

255. dupity.

.

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

257. dupe

.

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

258. wiki I35W Bridge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Bridge

[eauclaireliberal]

260. I just saw the clip of Tim Pawlenty...

First thing he dived into: terrorism.

Fucking asshole. Still spinning Bush talk in the wake of his "fellow 'Soters" tragedy.

[lebkuchen]

285. The GOP is its own worst enemy.

Its members have brought this country DOWN in so many ways.

[RamboLiberal]

261. Inspection Reports from 2001 detailing fatigue cracking

http://media.startribune.com/smedia/2007/08/01/21/bridges200110.source.prod_affiliate.2.pdf

[kath]

263. Actually, that 2001 report stated that there was NOT any fatigue cracking at that point,

it detailed what members of the truss were subject to the most stress, and that these members (and the rest of the bridge) should continue to be inspected at the SAME frequency already in place.

[Strelnikov_]

269. The problem with fatigue cracking is that it can be very hard to detect

You can't just go out and radiograph all the (edit) *critical* members of a bridge that large.

The bridge was a non-redundant structure (main truss) with elements susceptible to fatigue cracking, a fracture critical bridge.

This is not as much of a problem with modern bridges since this susceptibility has been addressed in recent design practice.

A significant chunk of a DOT's inspection time is concentrated on the small minority of fracture critical structures, as they have been a major worry for decades (since when I started bridge work in 1983 anyway).

In 2000 two girders of a 3 girder system failed suddenly due to fatigue cracking in Milwaukee. No problems noted prior to the failure. Because the bridge was redundant, it did not collapse.


Get ready for some major bridge closures around the country, as the majority of these fracture critical structures are major urban bridges like this one. We have replaced a lot of the easy (RE: rural) fracture critical bridges over the years.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

262. Slow Traffic Due To Construction Work

It's a good thing that the road work which CAUSED the bridge collapse, was going on. It slowed traffic and minimized the fatalities which happened as a result of the road work taking place.

[MNDEM2004]

264. 7 confirmed dead up to 60 injured.

search still continues in void areas.

[Adsos Letter]

301. I don't know that they have determined that the...

...ongoing roadwork CAUSED the collapse... :shrug:

Minnesotans: the prayers of west coast DUer's are with you.

[RamboLiberal]

335. Or it put a lot more cars on the bridge at the time

backed up in traffic. And with the traffic load on the bridge it may have caused the collapse. Ever since the Silver Bridge collapse in WV in 67 I have been uncomfortable stuck in traffic on a bridge, especially if traffic is backed up and you can actually feel it shaking under your car.

[Unca Jim]

265. I wonder...

That span of bridge had experimental chemical sprayers on it to reduce ice in winter (I drive over it at least once a week). Could that have weakened it?

It looks like it won't be as bad as it could have been because of low traffic due to the construction and people avoiding the area.

If it would have happened tomorrow, I'd have been in the river.

Damn.

[Strelnikov_]

274. Doubtful. Section loss due to corrosion would have been identified

by inspection.

Was almost certainly a fatigue cracking failure of a single critical member. Appears it occurred at a joint at or maybe one panel out from the pier. This is the pier where the bridge looks sheared, the pier in the image below.

The rest of the collapse is clearly buckling from collapse of a continuous superstructure system. A continuous truss the Muj blew up in Iraq failed in a similar manner. The Muj sheared the center span near a pier, and it brought down three spans.

http://img.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_sizedimage_213225142/xl

[Randomthought]

270. 20 minutes away

I drove over that bridge at 5:45. 2o minutes away from death.
The goddess was looking out for me today.

[Strelnikov_]

276. Wow

All I can say is glad you're OK.

[That Is Quite Enough]

271. Y'know, my brother had just gotten back from a trip...

And got back to his apartment about 10 minutes or so before the bridge collapsed. I'm thankful he wasn't hurt or killed, and my thoughts go out to all those who are trying to find out about their relatives and friends.

[northernsoul]

273. Glad to hear he's okay

Be well, SnickerSnack. I can't stop thinking about how many hundreds of times I've been over that bridge and how easily it could have been me.

[Chichiri]

275. Christ, I was just a few miles away.

I spent the evening in Bloomington and Southdale, tonight, for those who know where they are. I didn't actually go into Minneapolis, and didn't hear about the collapse until a few hours later. I found out via one of those new electronic billboards that changes ads and, I've just discovered (I just moved back to the Cities after 10 years in the Fargo area), also shows breaking news stories. So complete darkness except for taillights and big letters saying BREAKING NEWS I-35 BRIDGE COLLAPSES IN MINNEAPOLIS. For a few seconds I was in the fucking Twilight Zone.

God, that's scary. :(

[lebkuchen]

280. I'm glad you're okay.

It sounds like that bridge is a major thoroughfare. Where is the inbound traffic coming from and where does outbound traffic head?

[kikiek]

324. Traffic goes between mpls and st paul over the river blending with traffic from outer metro areas

from both directions. I94 actually is the one running into St Paul though to clarify. I35 runs to U of M mpls campus and into suburbs.It most certainly is a major thoroughfare. Really qu ite amazing that something with this amount of use and traffic could collapse. It is actually total of 8 lanes wide. Personally I don't even notice the river when I'm driving over it because it is so wide you forget you're over the water.

[Penndems]

278. Excerpt from Washington Post's coverage:

Reports issued by the Minnesota Department of Transportation over the past decade have detailed problems with the bridge. In 1997, the department noted problems with the approach spans on both ends of the bridge, including "cracks . . . in the cross girder at the end of the approach spans." In a 2001 report, department engineers said that the bridge's deck truss "has not experienced fatigue cracking, but it has many poor fatigue details on the main truss and floor truss system."

But that report concluded that the bridge "should not have any problems with fatigue cracking in the foreseeable future." As a result, they wrote, the department "does not need to prematurely replace this bridge because of fatigue cracking, avoiding the high costs associated with such a large project."

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR2007080102072.html?hpid=topnews

[Strelnikov_]

281. "but it has many poor fatigue details on the main truss"

And so it was written.

[lebkuchen]

283. Didn't want to spend the $

Now lives are lost, and they'll have to spend even more money on lawsuits, replacing the bridge, traffic delays, ad infinitum. I look forward to this investigation.

[Strelnikov_]

287. This is probably one of the most significant Civil Engineering events

in decades.

The changes in how the aging bridges on critical urban roadways are managed is going to be monumental.

Thing is, I think most Engineers who were aware of the mechanics of fracture critical structures had a sense it was just a matter of time before this happened.

It's a matter of risk management, and this time we lost.

[lebkuchen]

291. There's no sense of management in this type of risk

As I'd said in another post, which I've mis-placed, I hope Bush's message of condolence includes an explanation as to why we're spending $1 trillion in Iraq and so little on our aging infrastructure. Americans don't feel safe when they see bridges and levies collapsing around them.

[PoconoPragmatist]

299. ...

why should Bush give a flying FUCK if Americans feel safe? All he cares about is that him and his cronies BANK ACCOUNTS ARE SAFE!! He doesn't give a ripe fuck about people!!

[lebkuchen]

303. Clint Eastwood had a good response to this in "Play Misty for Me"

adapted--

What Bush really needs is psychological counseling.

[Duppers]

313. ENGINEERS: U.S. INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS ESTIMATED AT $1.6 TRILLON

From a 2003 article:

>>
The condition of the nation's roads, bridges, drinking water systems and other public works have shown little improvement since they were graded an overall D+ in 2001, with some areas sliding toward failing grades, concluded the 2003 Progress Report for America's Infrastructure, released by the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE).

The report examining trends and assessing the progress and decline of America's infrastructure - roads, bridges, mass transit, aviation, schools, drinking water, wastewater, dams, solid waste, hazardous waste, navigable waterways and energy - was prepared by a panel of 20 eminent civil engineers with expertise in a range of practice specialties. In 2001, ASCE engineers released the Report Card for America's Infrastructure, grading the same 12 infrastructure categories at a discouraging D+ overall and estimating the need for a $1.3 trillion investment to bring conditions to acceptable levels.

more here: http://www.buildingonline.org/news/viewnews.pl?id=2533&subcategory=114


------------------
From the "Report Card for America's Infrastructure" site:

Long commutes.
Dirty Water.
Delayed flights.
Failing Dams.

With each passing day, aging and overburdened infrastructure threatens the economy and quality of life in every state, city and town in the nation.

Read about the infrastructure issues in your region and how you can help raise the grade on America's failing infrastructure.

http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/index.cfm

[Penndems]

330. Governor Pawlenty's priorities: Build new stadium first, worry about highway infrastructure second

I would surmise that his political career was over when that bridge collapsed into the Mississippi River.

[lebkuchen]

331. Wikipedia has him pegged as a VP runningmate w/McCain

This investigation will be enlightening on a lot of fronts, to include our Iraq war.

[Penndems]

332. Tim Pawlenty would do well to start looking for a job in the private sector

My guess is that he'll serve out his gubernatorial term, but that's it. This horrific incident happened on his watch, and it won't be forgotten anytime soon.

[dflprincess]

349. I have no doubt it will be covered up

and some poor lackey in MnDot will get all the blame.

[truthisfreedom]

282. There's certain to be a lot of speculation about what caused the bridge to collapse,

but being in Minneapolis right now I know that we need to rebuild that bridge faster than any large bridge has ever been built or we're going to see some serious hardship as a result of its loss. Economic loss will be phenomenal. People will have to move so they can keep their jobs, or quit their jobs because they simply can't get to work. Enormous amounts of stuff that was previously shipped by truck between both sides of the river is going to simply not be available to the other side. I feel very lucky that FedEx is on my side of the river, because my business depends on it. Very very lucky.

[lebkuchen]

284. Where is the bridge?

I'd like to get some info re: incoming/outgoing traffic.

Does this affect the airport traffic headed to Brainerd?

[ButterflyBlood]

302. Brainerd is too far away to be directly affected

But it's north of Minneapolis, and the bridge was the main route to anywhere north of there, so there will be some effect. There's basically two detours I can think of right away, one is obviously I-35E through St. Paul, the other is a detour around on I-694. But both are going to be clogged now obviously.

[lebkuchen]

304. Thanks for that input

Hopefully on a Sunday morning the detour won't be so bad.

Best wishes to you in coping with this nightmare.

[ButterflyBlood]

307. Where are you going?

If you're talking about traffic in Brainerd, there should be no effect, Brainerd is well over 100 miles away from the Twin Cities. Even if you were driving from Brainerd to the south metro, now that I look at a map you wouldn't have gone over the bridge, the route is mostly on I-94 and some connecting routes like 494 and 694. But of course, traffic on those routes is now going to be very packed due to being used as detours. From Brainerd to the north or west metro though, this shouldn't be much of a factor.

[lebkuchen]

308. Flying into Minneapolis St. Paul and headed toward Brainerd

I'll be staying at a hotel near Mall of America for a short while, leaving Minneapolis on a Sunday and returning on a Thursday.

I know traffic going north is terrible on a Friday as everyone takes their boats up to the lakes, so I tried to avoid that day. If I get up early enough/avoid rush hour, I should be okay. Fortunately I have a lag-day on either end, so there is no big rush to drive for 3 plus hours to make a flight.

W/NWA canceling flights, and now the traffic mess, it's going to be tough going for Minnesota'ans for awhile. There's going to have to be some incentive pay attached to the contractor who rebuilds this bridge to get it completed efficiently. I hope Sec. of Transportation Peters will be the first one to pony up money for the cause.

Meanwhile, Bush needs to make note in his calendar that he's got some funerals to attend and some explaining to do.

[lebkuchen]

309. PS

I hope my route doesn't include a bridge, unless it's over the headwaters 3 hours north.

[MilesColtrane]

292. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would begin to think that this would benefit...

...those pushing for a new NAFTA superhighway.

Good thing I'm not.

[lebkuchen]

295. Mary Peters took Norm Mineta's place as Sec. of Transportation July 2006

Mineta quit because "he wanted to."

Here's Mary's philosophy:

Peters is an advocate of private investment in U.S. public roads and of user fees for building new highways. In an interview, Peters said that the National Highway System will run out of money by decade's end without substantial changes and, rather than raise taxes, some states are turning to toll roads already to fill gaps.

"You just can't depend on the federal government to bring the money in that was around when the interstate system was first built," Peters said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Peters_(politician)

Iraq can "depend" on our federal govt. as can Israel and Saudi Arabia, but Americans can't?

[PoconoPragmatist]

300. Exactly.

Because Iraqis and Saudis got OIL. That means money for the already filthy rich. americans...ha...they just suck up all the money that ought to be going into the fat cats pockets. Fuck lives...fuck safety...they are all just worker-slaves anyway, they are replaced a dime a dozen.

Goddam, why doesn't someone get these assholes out of power before we ALL end up getting killed?

[lebkuchen]

305. well

60 school kids clinging for their lives inside a school bus dangling from a collapsed railing on a bridge that was known to have infrastructure problems under the auspices of a Sec. of Transportation who believes in private funding for America's roads/bridges should wake a few neocons up, but I won't hold my breath.

What also needs to be mentioned is Bush's across-the-board 2007 FY budget cuts a few months ago to all federal agencies that were not directly involved with the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan. My own agency's budget was slashed by tens of millions and I AM w/the Dept. of Defense (just not war related).

With that management style, we can be certain of even more infrastructure failures.

[Algorem]

315. Bush needs do a flyover,make the peasants & peeons feel better

[goodhue]

320. Not exactly friendly territory

I hope he stays away

[Penndems]

329. According to CNN, Bush is making a statement at 11:00 ET

n/t

[uppityperson]

340. Mrbush's statement......

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/08/20070802-2.html

President Bush Offers Sympathies and Assistance to Minneapolis and Calls on Congress to Act Before Recess

10:54 A.M. EDT
Good morning. I just finished a Cabinet meeting. One of the things we discussed was the terrible situation there in Minneapolis. We talked about the fact that the bridge collapsed, and that we in the federal government must respond and respond robustly to help the people there not only recover, but to make sure that lifeline of activity, that bridge, gets rebuilt as quickly as possible.

To that end, Secretary Peters is in Minneapolis, as well as Federal Highway Administrator Capka. I spoke to Governor Pawlenty and Mayor Rybak this morning. I told them that the Secretary would be there. I told them we would help with rescue efforts, but I also told them how much we are in prayer for those who suffered. And I thank my fellow citizens for holding up those who are suffering right now in prayer.

We also talked about -- in the Cabinet meeting talked about the status of important pieces of legislation before the Congress. We spent a fair amount of time talking about the fact that how disappointed we are that Congress hasn't sent any spending bills to my desk. By the end of this week, members are going to be leaving for their month-long August recess. And by the time they will return, there will be less than a month before the end of the fiscal year on September the 30th, and yet they haven't passed one of the 12 spending bills that they're required to pass. If Congress doesn't pass the spending bills by the end of the fiscal year, Cabinet Secretaries report that their departments may be unable to move forward with urgent priorities for our country.

This doesn't have to be this way. The Democrats won last year's election fair and square, and now they control the calendar for bringing up bills in Congress. They need to pass each of these spending bills individually, on time, and in a fiscally responsible way.

The budget I've sent to Congress fully funds America's priorities. It increases discretionary spending by 6.9 percent. My Cabinet Secretaries assure me that this is adequate to meet the needs of our nation.

Unfortunately, Democratic leaders in Congress want to spend far more. Their budget calls for nearly $22 billion more in discretionary spending next year alone. These leaders have tried to downplay that figure. Yesterday one called this increase -- and I quote -- "a very small difference" from what I proposed. Only in Washington can $22 billion be called a very small difference. And that difference will keep getting bigger. Over the next five years it will total nearly $205 billion in additional discretionary spending. That $205 billion averages out to about $112 million per day, $4.7 million per hour, $78,000 per minute.

Put another way, that's about $1,300 in higher spending every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every year for the next five years. That's a lot of money -- even for career politicians in Washington. In fact, at that pace, Democrats in Congress would have spent an extra $300,000 since I began these remarks.

There's only one way to pay for all this new federal spending without running up the deficit, and that is to raise your taxes. A massive tax hike is the last thing the American people need. The plan I put forward would keep your taxes low and balance the budget within five years, and that is the right path for our country.

I want to thank OMB Director Rob Portman for his hard work in developing this plan. This was Rob's last Cabinet meeting. Laura and I wish him and his family well. And I call on the Senate to confirm his successor, Jim Nussle, so we can work together to keep our government running, to keep our economy growing, and to keep our nation strong.

Thank you for your time.

What a whiner.

[bicentennial_baby]

319. 20-30 people possibly still unaccounted for...

Per the latest press conference.

x(

[AngryAmish]

321. I-35 Bridge Collapse Proves 4/29 Sabatage

MINNEAPOLIS: This tuesday evening the I-35W Bridge “spontaneously” collapsed. What caused the collapse? A burning truck can be clearly seen in many photographs, but it is impossible for this fire to have caused the collapse since petroleum fire cannot melt steel. Did anyone know about the collapse? A press release from the Minnesota Department of Transportation warned drivers to avoid the bridge hours before the incident occurred.




To quote Sherlock Holmes, “Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.”

[goodhue]

323. The fire started about 5 minutes after collapse according to eye witnesses

eom

[RamboLiberal]

344. Take off the tinfoil hat

The warning was standard summer construction warnings - avoid bridge cause we're working on it and you may get stuck in traffic. And if national media was correct they may have had some overnight closings. That's all the warnings were about. Sorry, but that bit you posted was dumb. Not you, the source.

In Pittsburgh we have warnings nearly every weekend this summer because they are closing a portion of one of our major parkways nearly every weekend for road reconstruction. Should I put on a :tinfoilhat: ?

[dflprincess]

351. No tinfoil hat needed

The construction season is short here and the highway department will sometimes shut down the road over night or for a weekend so they can get more down.

Everytime there's major construction we get advised that an alternate route might be better.

[jordi_fanclub]

326. I-35W Video captures bridge collapse

(EDIT to update link)

Source CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/08/02/vosli.mn.i35w.bridge.collapse.side.view.cnn?iref=mpvideosview

[zanne]

328. Thank you for the video. nt

[minnesota_liberal]

361. Video was taken from S looking N, showing W side of bridge

South end falls first. Anyone know where the jackhammers were being used?

[Algorem]

334. what's the deal with jackhammers said heard before collapse?

oh.workers.

....Tashia Brown, a 911 operator, said one caller told her she could see the construction workers using jackhammers when the bridge collapsed close to her car. "She saw it, and she said she just gunned it and just made it out of there," Brown said...

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usbrid025316798aug02,0,2889428.story

Bus full of kids stops feet from death
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/08/02/2007-08-02_bus_full_of_kids_stops_feet_from_death.html

'Bridge went down fast'

BY TRACY CONNOR
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER


The yellow school bus was almost across the bridge when the usual pounding of jackhammers gave way to an unfamiliar, sickening shudder.

An instant later, the span collapsed with a roar, snapping slabs of freeway like toothpicks and dumping cars into the river and streets below.

"I kept screaming, 'There's kids on that bus,'" Janet Stately, who was driving on a road next to the bridge, told the St. Paul Pioneer Press.

"I just said, 'That bus is going to go in.'"...

[RamboLiberal]

336. I also heard reports they were pile-driving at the bridge

Who knows - early reporting and witness statements are often wrong. The sounds of the collapse might've been mistaken for jackhammers. I seriously doubt if jackhammers caused the collapse. There had to be some problem in a connection or critical support IMHO.

[Algorem]

337. somebody better check all the old alkaida videos & make sure

that none of them are carrying jackhammers instead of machine guns

[goodhue]

339. The pile-driving reports are from national media confusing projects

As far as I have seen there has been no recent pile driving at I35W Mississippi Bridge. There is another I35W road construction project ongoing about seven miles south of collapsed bridge that involves ongoing pile driving; specifically at the Diamond Lake Bridge over 35W, and the 35W bridge over Minnehaha Creek. Last night national media conflated the two distinct I35W reconstruction projects in Minneapolis.

[mzmolly]

347. Some speculate that the vibration from the work and a train that passed

under the bridge may have contributed?

[goodhue]

338. They have been jackhamerring away at the bridge for 6-7 weeks.

They call it concrete rehabilitation and it has been pretty intensive. There were repordtedly 18 contract workers on the bridge at the time of collapse, and 1 is unaccounted for. The collapse occured right after 6pm shift change.

[LeftishBrit]

345. Tragic and shocking

Best thoughts to everyone who is in any way involved.

[slackmaster]

346. It's amazing that more people weren't killed

My condolences to anyone who lost a friend, loved one, coworker, or acquaintence in the disaster.

[mzmolly]

348. About 30 are missing and many are still pinned under the wreckage. It may be

months before all bodies are recovered. :(

[CANDO]

354. Our nation crumbles around us as we pump hundreds of billions into wars.

Let freedom ring!!!

[BrightKnight]

355. It had a Federal structurally deficient rating - only rated 4 out of 9

I am not sure why this would be acceptable for one of the largest and the busiest bridge in the State.

[noshenanigans]

358. The sign..

I've seen a sign every time I've gone into an Airport in the last 2 years (which has been a lot) that an airport in Indonesia doesn't "maintain satisfactory safety standards". I guess if that was in the US, there wouldn't be a sign.