Castro: Cash at root of boxer defections

[Bacchus39]

Source: AP Latin America

HAVANA - Fidel Castro suggested Monday that a two-time Cuban Olympic boxing champion and his teammate had defected, blaming their disappearance at the Pan American Games in Brazil on American money.

Castro hinted the boxers left the games to accept lucrative deals from international promoters, saying "there is a mafia" that uses "refined psychological methods and many millions of dollars" to "select, buy up and promote Cuban boxers in the international sports competitions."

Bantamweight Guillermo Rigondeaux, who won the 2000 and 2004 Olympics, and Erislandy Lara, a top welterweight, left the athletes village Sunday, failing to appear for their weigh-ins. Their forfeited their bouts.

"They were simply knocked down with a blow straight to the chin, paid up with U.S. bills," Castro wrote in an essay distributed by e-mail.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070724/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/pan_ams_cuban_disappearance;_ylt=AigUvypjlqB7klaDZtOP4t63IxIF

[MrPrax]

1. Oh Fidel...

I don't think you need refined psychological methods to tell someone that they could make a hell of a lot more money as an American boxer than a Cuban one?

But I could be wrong -- maybe there are "refined psychological methods" being deployed against Canadian comics and programmers.

Maybe he should retire before he starts accusing them of cosmopolitanism

[Solo_in_MD]

2. Fidel is in denial...how could anyone leave the workers paradise that is Cuba unless under

evil capitalist influences. Be interesting to know what happens to any family they have left there. However without a free press or even foreign reporters who are free to investigate things, we will never know.

It will be interesting to see what course Cuba takes after the fall of its current totalitarian government

[Bacchus39]

3. yeah, I mean who wouldn't want to be Castro's pawn?

n/t

[martymar64]

29. After Castro's gone , I fear for the Cuban people

The US will undoubtedly try to install another Batista and grind the people back down to where they were before Castro, as uneducated peasants with no land, no education, no freedom and no health care. Is that what you're hoping for ? Another Batista to rape the country again?

[Solo_in_MD]

33. Not at all

but Cuba has no history of peaceful government change and turnover. It is a dictatorship who's leader is going to die real-soon-now.

I doubt that the US will be able to install another Batista, I see instead violent factions and anarchy, due in part to the repression of the current regime.

[martymar64]

34. The US will try to install another Batista

You can bank on it. The only people that will be violent are the Batistianos that will feel that need to take back "what's their's". Comparing Batista to Castro is no contest. Batista was much worse and with the help of the US and the "exiles" those horrifying days will return with a vengeance.
The Cuban people, all of them, should decide the fate of Cuba after Castro. The Exiles forfeited that right by leaving. They are Americans now, not Cuban.

[Solo_in_MD]

36. Really don't think so

As for violence, I would expect that some of the surviors of the current oppresive regime will take action against the communists when the current government falls.

[Mika]

38. The oppresive regime was kicked out of Cuba in 1959.

Cubans are quite capable, as history has proven, of changing regimes that they don't like.

The violent thugs and their minions who helped prop up the Batista regime are in Miami. It is they that Cuba has to worry about. The bought-and-paid-for agents who aid and abet the factions who have a long history of terrorism against Cuba are known by Cuban security - for good reason.

[Solo_in_MD]

41. So there is no opression in CUba today? Did the free press there tell you that?

Castro has been represive as well and that may well lead to violence when he and Raoul are no longer there.

[Mika]

44. Name the oppressions?

Please use some sourced factual info. (And, please, not from CANF, NED, or Mellon Scaiffe funded organization sources, like Cubanet, Drs w/o Borders, AI, & HRW.)

[Solo_in_MD]

48. How about a free press?

Opposition parties, contested elections, free speech.

[Mika]

49. Please, some facts?

There are opposition parties in Cuba.

There are contested elections in Cuba.

There is free speech in Cuba.



Been there. Seen it.

[toopers]

58. Let's see, you want evidence of oppression . . .

Where should we start . . . How about with this article! Why did the boxers have to defect from Cuba while visiting another country? I guess they didn't apply for the correct visas and passports while they were at home. It was just a misunderstanding on the boxers part.

[Bacchus39]

59. remember though, evidence from anti-Castro groups is not allowed

also, evidence from organizations critical of Cuba's government like HRW is unacceptable.

[Mika]

61. Evidence? More like heresay. They all use the "some people say" style of reporting on Cuba.

Considering that they get funding for either rightwing foundations or the declared enemy of the Cuban system of government (that self declared enemy being the US government), its no wonder the "some people say" is the commonly used "evidence".

[Bacchus39]

65. they are leaving for a reason, why don't you want to listen to them?

n/t

[Bacchus39]

66. more Cuban defectors news for you

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba-defectors.htm

[martymar64]

39. You mean like in 1959 when the people executed their oppressors?

Most of those killed by Castro and Che were the ones in the Batista regime and the Secret police that murdered thousands of Cuban peasants and students with impunity.

I'll end this by saying that we'll agree to disagree. We have our own dictator to worry about here in the USA who is much worse than Castro could ever be, ours has nukes and is itching to use them. The Cubans will take care of themselves, despite our meddling in their affairs.

[Solo_in_MD]

42. I expect similar results when the Castros fall

they have their own secret police and there will be killings in vengance for the atrocities of that regime

[martymar64]

45. OK, I get it. You hate Castro and love Batista.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[Solo_in_MD]

47. No, they are both corrupt oppressors

Castro has a better press agent and a captive press corps. He also benfits from being one of the few communist nations, which for some is nostalgic.

Batista was also a rat bastard, who was not in power long enough for us to see what his favorite crimes against the people and human rights abuses would be.

[Yupster]

64. Batista's been gone for 48 years

and yet you'll still hear people talking about him like he's some kind of bogeyman hiding under the bed.

Whatever Castro does, "at least he's better than Batista."

Like those are the only two choices.

[Judi Lynn]

68. "Not in power long enough for us to see what his favorite crimes against the people

and human rights abuses would be?" Is that so? Really?

Have you ever bothered to read a word about Cuban history? What the #### do you imagine was the reason the entire Cuban population entered a state of revolution? Fucking BOREDOM?

Don't humiliate yourself here. Almost ALL of us know far, far better than that.

Here's a very short, simply review of that bloody, monstrous U.S.-supported asshole:

FULGENCIO BATISTA
President of Cuba
Cuban Army Sergeant Fulgencio Batista first seized power in a 1932 coup. He was President Roosevelt's handpicked dictator to counteract leftists who had overthrown strongman Cerardo Machado. Batista ruled for several years, then left for Miami, returning in 1952 just in time for another coup, against elected president Carlos Prio Socorras. His new regime was quickly recognized by President Eisenhower. Under Batista, U.S. interests flourished and little was said about democracy. With the loyal support of Batista, Mafioso boss Meyer Lansky developed Havana into an international drug port. Cabinet offices were bought and sold and military officials made huge sums on smuggling and vice rackets. Havana became a fashionable hot spot where America's rich and famous drank and gambled with mobsters. As the gap between the rich and poor grew wider, the poor grew impatient. In 1953, Fidel Castro led an armed group of rebels in a failed uprising on the Moncada army barracks. Castro temporarily fled the country and Batista struck back with a vengeance. Freedom of speech was curtailed and subversive teachers, lawyers and public officials were fired from their jobs. Death squads tortured and killed thousands of "communists". Batista was assisted in his crackdown by Lansky and other members of organized crime who believed Castro would jeopardize their gambling and drug trade. Despite this, Batista remained a friend to Eisenhower and the US until he was finally overthrown by Castro in 1959.
(snip/)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Many of the absolute scum who populated his government fled immediately to Miami, where they turned South Florida into a steaming pile of violence, and corruption in almost no time at all, earning the place the title of "Terror Capital of the United States" from the American F.B.I., and multiple designations as America's "poorest city with a population over 500,000" from the American Census Bureau.

What a spectacular load.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What the tiny article doesn't mention is that after 1932, Fulgencio Batista was the behind-the-scenes power for DECADES while a procession of puppet Presidents came and went.

Do yourself a favor, take some time away from posting, and use it to get informed, instead, so you won't be making such phenomenal mistakes.

[Judi Lynn]

69. For your (*cough*) continuing education on Cuba's history:

"In February 1955, Vice President Richard Nixon traveled to Havana to embrace Batista at the despot's lavish private palace, praise 'the competence and stability' of his regime, award him a medal of honor, and compare him with Abraham Lincoln. Nixon hailed Batista's Cuba as a land that 'shares with us the same democratic ideals of peace, freedom and the dignity of man.'

"When he returned to Washington, the vice president reported to the cabinet that Batista was 'a very remarkable man ... older and wiser ... desirous of doing a good job for Cuba rather than Batista ... concerned about social progress...' And Nixon reported that Batista had vowed to 'deal with the Commies.'

"What Nixon omitted from his report was ... the rampant government corruption under Batista -- and the extreme poverty of most Cubans. The American vice president also ignored Batista's suspension of constitutional guarantees, his dissolution of the country's political parties, and his use of the police and army to murder political opponents. Twenty thousand Cubans reportedly died at the hands of Batista's thugs." --Don Folsum, The Mob's President: Richard Nixon's Secret Ties to the Mafia

http://www.geocities.com/ciameddling/

[Judi Lynn]

35. The violent faction lives in South Florida, but Cubans are used to them, seeing

them, or people they hire to terrorize Cuba, on a regular basis, as they shoot at Cuban buildings and people from the water, come ashore fully armed and loaded, usually getting arrested at some point, but occassionally making it all the way to kill someone, before fleeing back to Miami to brag about it.

They also hire poor Central Americans to carry in and plant bombs in public places.

This radical reactionary right-wing "violent faction" earned Miami the title of "Terror Capital of the United States," given to it by the F.B.I. after they arrived and started murdering each other and other people they couldn't tolerate.

Cubans are completely aware of them, having also seen the pieces of shit flying over their country in airplanes, right down town in Havana.

Cubans are, from what many have said, completely prepared for them if they invade again, just as they managed to survive the terrifying Bay of Pigs invasion by these a-holes, take so many prisoners, and exchange them for food and medical supplies, and farm equipment.

[Mika]

4. Instead of relying on the AP interperatation, why not read what Castro actually wrote?

I know that DUs contingent of Castrophobes like their news about Cuba to have anti Castro spin, but sometimes that gets in the way of the truth.


Here's what Mr Castro actually wrote.

IS BRAZIL THE UNITED STATES’ SUBSTITUTE?
http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/discursos/2007/ing/f230707i.html

A short while ago I was saying about the brain drain that is disgusting.

A bit later, a good offensive player on the Cuban handball team showed up wearing the uniform of a professional Sao Paulo team.

Betrayal for money is one of the favorite weapons the United States uses to destroy Cuba's resistance.

The athlete was a higher education student; he would be a graduate with a degree in Physical Education and Sport, an honorable job. His income is modest, but his professional training is highly appreciated; whatever the sport or specialty, if they attract a large audience and commercial publicity or none at all they are still useful for human growth.

Those that applied for asylum in Brazil are doing it after the United States declared recently that it would not be fulfilling the exact quotas of the migratory agreements signed with our country. Suffice it to say that of the almost two hundred athletes and coaches who participated in the first week of Pan American competition, we went missing one handball player and one gymnastics coach.

I am not going to say, for that reason, that the Cuban handball team was better than the excellent Brazilian team and its formidable athletes, but the Cuban delegation received a low moral blow in the Pan American Games with these pleas for political asylum. The Cuban team was thus knocked out even before the match for gold began.

Last Sunday, July 22, around noon, the sad news was received that two of the most outstanding athletes in boxing, Guillermo Rigondeaux Ortiz and Erislandy Lara Santoya did not show up for the weigh-in. Very simply they were knocked out by a punch to the chin, paid with American bills. No countdown was needed.

Watching those first matches in Rio, I exclaimed that our boxers were fighting with such elegance and technical mastery that they had transformed their rough sport into an art form.

In Germany, there is a mafia devoted to selecting, buying and promoting Cuban boxers in international boxing matches. It uses sophisticated psychological methods and many millions of dollars.

A mere three hours later, the victory of the Cuban Mariela González Torres in the marathon, a classic Olympic sport which took her on a course of more than 40 kilometers, more than compensated for the treasons and her feat was engraved with golden letters in the annals of sports history of her country.

The Cuban people must pay tribute to the heroic example of Mariela, born in the eastern province of Granma, where the rates of infant and maternal mortality were, in 2006, 4.4 per each thousand live births and 11 per 100 thousand deliveries, better than the figures in the United States. In her municipality, Río Cauto, with a population of 47,918, the figure was zero on both counts.

After all, Cuba has thousands of good coaches who work abroad with athletes who very often win gold medals in competitions against our own athletes. Another fact: there is an International School for Professors of Physical Education and Sport where more than 1300 students from the Third World are taking their higher education courses. A few days ago, 247 graduated. We do not encourage chauvinism or any superiority complex. We work with science and knowledge and on this basis we struggle to create the ethical values of a healthy mind in a healthy body.

It is totally unjustified to seek political asylum. If Brazil is not the final marketplace, it makes little difference. There are wealthy countries in the First World who would pay much more. The Brazilian authorities have declared that whoever wishes to defect must prove the real necessity for seeking asylum. It is impossible to prove the opposite. Even beforehand, we know their final destination as mercenary athletes within a consumer society. I think that they have offended Brazil by using the Pan American Games as the pretext for their self-promotion. In any case, we consider the declarations of the authorities to be useful.

We would like Brazil, a sister nation in Latin America and the Third World, to have the honor of hosting the Olympics.



Fidel Castro Ruz

July 23, 2007.

6:52 p.m.

[Bacchus39]

5. why not post it in Spanish then?? if you want to see what he wrote

Castro doesn't decide if asylum is justified or not now does he? the boxers apparently decided to use their talents towards their own ends rather than be part of Castro's propaganda machine.

[Mika]

9. OK. Here it is.

I posted the English translation for the DUers who don't read Spanish.

Here's the Spanish version..

http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/discursos/2007/esp/f230707e.html

[Bacchus39]

11. defections and visa quotas

sorry, Fidel, that has nothing to do with it. You wouldn't let "YOUR" top atheletes out anyway.

[AndyTiedye]

15. If He Was Lured By GERMAN Promoters, Wouldn't They Pay Him in Euros?

If they're paying him in dollars, he's getting ripped off. The dollar is at an all-time low vs. the Euro.

[Bacchus39]

6. other recent Cuban boxer defections

http://www.sportsjamaica.com/read_article.php?id=8537

[Bacchus39]

7. more on Cuban sports defections

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=120409

Rio de Janeiro (dpa) - Cuba's star boxer Guillermo Rigondeaux "disappeared" while he was in Rio de Janeiro to take part in the Pan American Games.

The 2000 and 2004 bantamweight Olympic champion apparently defected along with fellow boxer Erislandy Lara over the weekend, media in Rio reported Monday.

"We gave them permission to go out last night and they did not return," Maximiliano Gonzalez Diaz, president of Cuba's National Boxing Commission, told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa in Rio. "It is very sad."

Handball player Rafael Da Costa Capote and gymnastics trainer Lazaro Lamelas had earlier abandoned the communist island's delegation. Capote and Lamelas said last week that they plan to request asylum in Brazil.

In December 2006, three other big stars - Yan Barthelemy, Yuriorkis Gamboa and Odlanier Solis - defected during a tournament in Caracas. They now box professionally in Germany.
The defections of Cuban athletes only rarely appear in the island's state media, which criticize the "theft of talent" and opportunities for Third World stars to compete under the flags of developed countries.

[donsu]

8. I believe Castro

nt

[originalpckelly]

10. That's odd, what happened to all the other people who leave all the time?

You know, the ones who risk their lives on the sea just to get to America?

Isn't that some kind of indication how bad Cuba is, Fidel? Eh?

[Mika]

12. Interestingly, they go back to visit and vacation.

Cuban "exiles" were (and still are) the largest demographic within the US to visit Cuba. So many that it was sending a contradictory message to the Cuba haters, so the Bush admin now restricts Cuban-American travel to Cuba. They may visit ONLY direct relatives (mother/father or daughter/son) only once every three years - NO exceptions for a family emergency. The majority of Miami's Cuban & Cuban-American community does not agree with these restrictions. It is the Bush admin that is forcing family separations not Cuba. No other country restricts Cuban migrant's travel to Cuba like the US gov.


Its poverty and job opportunity that brings most immigrants here.


Except that ONLY Cuban immigrants are given the types of perks given by the US Cuban Adjustment Act. (Instant work visa, instant eligibility for a green card, instant welfare, instant Social Security, instant access to Sec 8 housing. AND THIS INCLUDES ILLEGAL CUBAN ENTRANTS WITH FELONY CRIMINAL RECORDS who are covered under the US "wet foot/ dry foot" policy for Cubans only.)


Of the tens of thousands who 'escape' Mexico hundreds of Mexicans die 'escaping' to the US.

Mexico doesn't face economically devastating US sanctions, as Cuba does.

Mexicans don't benefit from any 'Mexican Adjustment Act'


Come to Miami and you'll meet people from all over the Caribbean, from all over the Central Americas, and from all over the South Americas. They all 'escaped' too.

None of their countries face economically devastating US sanctions, as Cuba does.

None of their citizens are offered an 'Adjustment Act' like Cubans are.

But they still pour into the US.


They are escaping poverty.


The US sanctions forces poverty on Cubans in Cuba, at the same time offering a plethora of immigration/financial perks, so the driveling anti Cuba propagandists can pretend that they're 'fleeing' Cuba's political system. All that's needed for that strategy to work is a totally_ignorant_about_Cuba_policy American public.

Mission accomplished.

[Bacchus39]

13. must be painful and difficult decision to defect in the first place

I guess desperation drives them away

[Mika]

16. No. Not desperation. Opportunity to make millions.

If they remain in Cuba the US sanctions on Cuba and Cubans will limit their financial gain. The only way for them to quickly make a move to the pro ranks (without the limitations of the US's extra territorrial sanctions) is to "defect". If they maintained residence in Cuba they would be banned (by US law) from fighting in the US and from having agencies/handlers/managers who do business in the US.

Interesting that it is US policy that forces them to "defect" if they want to go pro, not the canard of desperation that you claim.

[Bacchus39]

18. most Cubans defect out of desperation

I would agree that top atheletes do it to pursue professional careers and utilize their talents for their own benefit rather than as propaganda pieces for the state. I imagine that an exit card from the Cuban government is impossible to get for the top atheletes.

I guess the question is, do you believe your talents belong to yourself or to the state?

[Mika]

20. Interesting question. Needs expansion, though.

I guess the question is, do you believe your talents belong to yourself or to the state?

Or/in addition, is there any obligation to the state if the state (the people and their government institutions) helped and invested in the development of one's talents?

Mr Castro's related commentary on brain drain (link in OP) from poor countries to wealthy is quite a valid and interesting commentary.

[Bacchus39]

21. is there an alternative to the state in Cuba???

there is really no option now is there? the boxers already won numerous championships "for the glory of the revolution". I believe their payment has been met in full.

[robcon]

24. I think you are spinning in a very deceptive way, Mika.

"Defection" means LEAVING Cuba against the wishes of Cuba. It is only necessary to "defect" if the country attempts to keep people against their will. Otherwise the person would simply try to emigrate.

In most circumstances people just leave their native country to seek a better life. The home country has no right to restrict its citizens from seeking a better life elsewhere. (The country in which the immigrants want to move, can, of course, put restrictions on who can immigrate.)

You've got it backwards, Mika, when you wrote "Interesting that it is US policy that forces them to "defect" if they want to go pro, not the canard of desperation that you claim." The only one who forces Cubans to "defect" (rather than emigrate) is Cuba, and its denial of its citizens of the right to emigrate is the problem.

An athlete who moves, for example, from the Mexico to the U.S. is unremarkable. It's only because of the Castro gulag, which tries to prevent Cubans from leaving Cuba, that causes "defection" not emigration.

[Mika]

46. Your spin makes little sense.

So.. big bad Castro keeps the people in opposition to the system and seeking change, in Cuba? While those professionals who don't oppose the system can work in other nations (except the US, by US law) and move there?

Why would Castro do that?

[originalpckelly]

14. Isn't it odd that a workers paradise such a Cuba would have poverty?

:shrug:

Hmmm. Makes you wonder if Socialism or Communism isn't reality based and doesn't work.

[Mika]

19. Ahh.. the words of a corporate propagandist.

So, the rest of the capitalist Caribbean and Latin Americas are all flush with wealth and health care and educational standing and are a paragon of workers rights?

Cuba might be materialistically poor, but Cubans are rich in that they have world class health care, a world class education system, and every profession and vocation is represented by a labor union. Cuba's stats bear that out, especially compared with much of the Caribbean and Latin Americas.

[wuushew]

25. Why do you groundlessly bash socialism?

Lay it out. I would argue the relative affluence of any given country has more or less been a side effect of geography over what economic system it employs.

You do realize that our current economic system can not continue in the near future without very unpleasant results owing to us finally reaching a limit at the rate at which we can extract resources from the finite environment. Capitalism is not amenable to the steady state society.

[killbotfactory]

26. It's not odd when a neighboring economic superpower with nearly unlimited resources

decides to effectively lay siege to an island nation.

[Bacchus39]

17. Mexicans "benefit" from having a shared border with the US and

their government doesn't try to prevent them from leaving.

for athletes perhaps it is using their talents for their own benefit rather than being a tool that belongs to the state.

[killbotfactory]

28. Why are so many people fleeing Mexico?

I thought capitalism meant economic prosperity.

[Bacchus39]

30. no, not necessarily. most countries have capitalistic systems

yet, not all are successful. Yet, gifted Mexican baseball players and boxers need not defect in order to reap the rewards of their talents. they need not even leave Mexico.

[killbotfactory]

31. I'm sure that fact comforts those who cross the border

and send money to their families living in shanty towns.

[Bacchus39]

32. I am sure they appreciate the opportunity to work in the US earn money and send some back

it appears at least the Cuban boxers have similar sentiments.

[High Plains]

52. What about all the other people from other countries who leave...

...their homeland. Isn't that some kind of indication of how bad their countries are, eh?

Cuba is hardly alone in having people who would seek new lives elsewhere.

[Bacchus39]

57. absolutely true, yet of those how many need to defect?

rather than just go?

[David__77]

22. This is not strange or surprising.

Of course there are defections. There is an opportunity for more material benefit elsewhere. Not every citizen of Cuba will put self-interest aside totally. Nor am I particularly arguing that they should. Wages are relatively equally distributed in Cuba, which causes discontent among the "professional" classes and special figures like athletes. China dealt with that by providing a more unequal wage distribution, with much "success." If the athletes were not imbued with "socialist consciousness," then of course they would be tempted to leave. It really requires no "sophisticated" techniques from abroad.

[robcon]

23. I think Castro is right.

The boxers left Cuba because his regime wouldn't let them earn what their talents could earn.

A 'worker's paradise' would let the workers earn whatever they want in whatever country they want to earn it. In most countries people don't "defect" from a country - they just move to seek whatever success they might be able to earn in other countries. But in Castro's gulag, people are not allowed to leave Cuba unless the Dear Leader lets them leave - in other words the country is a prison, and talented people must "defect."

[Mika]

37. I know Cuban professionals in Canada, France & the UK who do go to/from home whenever they want.

None of them needed to "defect" to work elsewhere. It seems that they only need to "defect" when their professional careers infringe on some aspect of the US sanctions on Cuba and Cuban professionals.

BTW, many are not "Castro lovers", but they do love their country and families at home and maintain their Cuban citizenship.

[Judi Lynn]

40. Yeah, I remember seeing this on British tv shows, actually, now that you mention it!

They are referred to exactly the same as if they are originally there from Nicaragua, Chile, Mexico, etc.. Guess the British are missing a spectacular opportunity to get some good old right-wing idiot spin by claiming they are there because they are skairt of that mean old socialist gummint back in Cuba.

[Mika]

43. Not to mention the thousands of Cuba doctors who work in other countries.

Now, I expect some Castrophobes to mention that there has been "defections" from among these Drs, somewhere between 30 - 50, but considering the many tens of thousands of Cuban doctors it is an infinitesimal number, and most of those are "defecting" to get to the US because the US won't allow Cuban professionals into the US without their "defecting" (unless they come in under the aegis of Wet Foot/Dry Foot).

[Judi Lynn]

50. Isn't that peculiar? They can't come here unless they agree to make a political statement, to aid

the lie. Pathetic.

As soon as that travel ban is removed one day there are going to be a TON of American idiots who will be shown up as gigantic, dishonest, spectacular LIARS who have taken advantage of Americans who couldn't get to Cuba to find out for themselves. Their day is going to come. No doubt about it.

[Mika]

51. Not just Cuban Drs, but athletes, artists, musicians, scientists, educators, etc.

Over the last several years there have been dozens and dozens of discussions here on DU on the US gov denying all of the aforementioned Cuban professionals from getting US visas to visit or work or even denying visas for Cubans receiving awards and other honors from their professional associations in the US.


If these professionals were so desperate as some posters claim, then you'd think that the Castrophobic US gov would be anxious to give them a chance to "defect" here IN the USA.

Almost none of the Cubaphobic canards make any sense. Doesn't stop 'em from repeatedly posting 'em though.

[Judi Lynn]

53. They probably haven't completely recovered from Juan Miguel Gonzalez' rejection

of the offer of $1,000,000.00 from the Cuban "exile" community if he would just stay here, in the U.S., instead of going back to Cuba with Elián.

From what has been reported, he didn't have to take long to ponder the offer, either.

[robcon]

62. The "revisiting Cuba" issue is another false story.

No one who defects from Cuba (rather than leaves any other home country) wants to return there because they will be arrested and sent to jail in Castro's gulag.

There really is no end of the deceptions you will post to defend Castro, Judi Lynn.

[Mika]

63. Wow. You really do know almost nothing about the Cuban-Americans in Miami.

What are all of the travel agencies who book Cuba visits doing in Miami?

Before Bush's latest travel sanctions, there were well over 100,000 Cuban immigrants who returned to Cuba for visits and vacations every year.

Did they all return repeatedly to get arrested?

What you know about Cuba (and the Miami Cuban American community) could fit on the head of a very small pin.

[Judi Lynn]

67. You are so painfully, appallingly off base. Many, MANY people still remember learning

Elián Gonzalez' drunken great uncle in Little Havana, Lázaro Gonzalez and his brother had made trips to Cuba well before Elián was found drifting off the Florida coast. It has been discussed and written about almost from the first. Lázaro went especially to fish and to hang out in the hotel bars, he brought a baby goat to Juan Miguel's family, he fished all day, hung out in the bars all night, and crashed at Juan Miguel's house overnight, again and again, causing Juan Miguel Gonzalez to offer him his own bedroom, while he himself slept in his own car.

This has been discussed by magazines who sent reporters to Cuba to do background during the time Elián was there, and it was researched in person by Ann Louise Bardach, a New York Times reporter who researched for ages in both Cuba and the US in order to write Cuba Confidential: Love and Vengeance in Miami and Havana. (She is also one of two reporters who did a world-famous interview with Cuban "exile" asshole bomber/mass murderer, Luis Posada Carriles, for the New York Times.)

She discusses Cubans who travel back and forth between the United States and Cuba in the preface of her book:

In Cuba, one used to be either a revolucionario or a contrarevolucionario, while those who decided to leave were gusanos (worms) or escoria (scum). In Miami, the rhetoric has also been harsh. Exiles who do not endorse a confrontational policy with Cuba, seeking instead a negotiated settlement, have often been excoriated as traidores (traitors) and sometimes espías (spies). Cubans, notably cultural stars, who visit Miami but choose to return to their homeland have been routinely denounced. One either defects or is repudiated.

But there has been a slow but steady shift in the last decade-a nod to the clear majority of Cubans en exilio and on the island who crave family reunification. Since 1978, more than one million airline tickets have been sold for flights from Miami to Havana. Faced with the brisk and continuous traffic between Miami and Havana, hard-liners on both sides have opted to deny the new reality. Anomalies such as the phenomenon of reverse balseros, Cubans who, unable to adapt to the pressures and bustle of entrepreneurial Miami, return to the island, or gusañeros, expatriots who send a portion of their earnings home in exchange for unfettered travel back and forth to Cuba (the term is a curious Cuban hybrid of gusano and compañero, or comrade), are unacknowledged by both sides, as are those who live in semi-exilio, returning home to Cuba for long holidays.

Page XVIII
Preface
Cuba Confidential
Love and Vengeance
In Miami and Havana

Copyright© 2002 by
Ann Louise Bardach

[Bacchus39]

54. and they are denied exit visas to leave Cuba

don't want to address that part of the equation now do you?

[Bacchus39]

55. or they can't get an exit permit perhaps?

sports figures and medical professionals are too valuable to allow to leave I guess.

[roody]

27. It's time for a DU meetup in Cuba.

How about Navidad? I have 2 weeks off: last week of December, first week of January. The best way to know is to see for one's self. We meet in Cancun.

[Bacchus39]

56. list of Cuban baseball defectors

http://www.cubanball.com/Images/History/RedBall/Defect/Defect.pdf

[tidy_bowl]

60. I am sure it had nothing to do .......

...with Fidel's worker's paradise. Really who would want to leave all that?