Gunman Opens Fire at Ward Parkway Shopping Center

[jmc247]

Source: Fox 4

FOX 4 has confirmed that a suspect armed with a gun fired shots at the Ward Parkway Shopping Center at 86th and Ward Parkway in Kansas City, Mo.

There are reports of multiple victims with gunshot wounds in the area, and possibly fatalities. FOX 4 has reporters at three separate locations gathering information on the shooting.

FOX 4's Rob Low reports that the shooting began at a Valero gas station on Bannister and Lydia, where a police officer was shot in the arm.

Read more: http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3060847&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[jmc247]

1. They are saying the suspect used an AK-47

[whistle]

3. How would he get an illegal military weapon like that I wonder?

:sarcasm:

[Solo_in_MD]

7. Probably isn't illegal or military...M$Ms cluelessness on firearms is well known

[krispos42]

80. Generic term. Perjorative, but common

An actual AK-47 is extremely expensive and time-consuming to aquire legally. Figure 4 to 5 thousand.

What they are almost certainly refering to is an imported civilian-legal AK47-pattern rifle. Probably Chinese or former European Communist Bloc. Put in storage after the fall of the Berlin Wall, sold off, legalized, imported, and sold through a federally-licenced dealer to a person with a clean police record.

[Marie26]

104. This guy had 2 prior felonies

If he got this gun legally, this will also evaporate NRA Talking Point #2 - "We don't need more background checks!"

[iverglas]

105. and he talked about "shooting up people"

http://www.ktiv.com/News/index.php?ID=12471

According to the victim's step-daughter, the man who drove a dead woman's car to a Kansas City mall yesterday and killed two people was a neighbor who talked about "shooting up people."

Pam Reed says the man once asked to borrow her stepmother's gun, but the woman refused. Reed also says the man talked about "Vietnam stuff" for many years.

"The woman" appears to be the woman whose body was found and whose car was used by the man who committed the homicides at the mall.

It may be doubtful that he got his weapon "legally" in the sense of buying it from a licensed dealer. But there's nothing "illegal" in the US about lending/selling one's firearm to someone whom one doesn't know to be disentitled, as I understand it. (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I've summarized the nuances of that incorrectly.)

I am very curious about what you said about someone having shot at him in the mall. Did you hear this locally, or is there a news link?

[Marie26]

106. Nice guy

Sometimes it seems like the people who are most interested in having guns are the ones that shouldn't ever get them. Here's a news link to the story - a man drew a gun on the shooter, but apparantly didn't get a chance to fire any shots.

"Shooting victim at mall drew gun, family says" -
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002641156_mallshooting23m.html

[iverglas]

107. thanks - let's hope those who oughta see it take notice

Maybe they'll even admit they've noticed.

Shooting victim at mall drew gun, family says

The man who was critically wounded during Sunday's shooting rampage at Tacoma Mall drew a pistol and confronted the gunman before he was cut down by gunfire, his family said Tuesday.

Brendan "Dan" McKown was delivering a bank deposit for a mall gift store when gunshots scattered shoppers at around noon. McKown was among six people hit.

... Tacoma police confirmed that McKown had a gun, but spokesman Mark Fulghum said there was no evidence that gunshots were fired by anyone other than Maldonado, who faces numerous criminal charges. Police also could not confirm whether there was a confrontation between the two men before McKown was shot.

... McKown's father, Roger McKown, said his son has a permit to carry a handgun, which he did not out of fear but because "he always believed in protecting people."

Assuming he did pull the weapon, even if he didn't shoot it -- would he have been shot if he hadn't?

Meanwhile, they're trying to trace the *two* firearms he had with him.

That article also goes into his purported grievances, for those interested.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[depakid]

9. Gee, who'd have thought....

I hope that the various DU'ers who chided me over posts where I mentioned AK-47's are taking notice.

All you have to do is run a simple Google news search:

http://news.google.com/news?ndsp=20&svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=in&q=ak-47&btnG=Search+News

[Pavulon]

32. Wrong, If he used an AK-47 , he would get more jail

time than an average person does for murder. 10year mandatory fed sentence is more than most people get after a murder charged is dropped back under plea agreement.

He used a replica rifle that looks like an ak - 47.

There is a technical language surrounding firearms. The media generally get it wrong.

What a waste.

[benEzra]

48. Not clear if it was even a rifle, never mind an AK lookalike, at this point. (n/t)

[Paladin]

62. And The Fact That The Media....

...doesn't get every last detail of a firearm's description correct in an incident like this, in the first hectic reports, is of minimal importance---except to the resident D.U. Gun Huggers, who use such circumstances to deflect attention from what's really important: that another shithead who shoudn't have had access to a gun managed to get one and kill innocent people. And the same sort of thing is going to happen tomorrow, or next week, or next month, over and over and over again. Nothing to see here, move along.....

[Arugula Latte]

101. Tell 'em, Paladin!

I'm sick of the gun nuts spouting off about technicalities ...

[iverglas]

102. interesting phenomenon, isn't it?

The old attack-the-messenger (the media / Diane Feinstein / Carolyn McCarthy are silly ignorant fools) to distract attention from the message (levels of firearms homicides and harm are staggeringly unacceptable) just doesn't seem to work well on much of anybody.

You'd think they'd be coming up with something better. All the money that goes into it ...

A few years ago the anti-choice brigade gave up on "abortion is murder!!!!!", since nobody was really paying any attention, and started whinging about "abortion hurts women!" They've had more success with this: viz. Kennedy's reasons in the most recent US Sup Ct case. Not a lot, outside their fellow travellers' heads, but still.

What could the gun-heads come up with? Thousands of affidavits from people who regret that they, or their kids, didn't have guns when they were little ... recovery groups for people with empty-holster stress syndrome ...

How to make gun-nuttery warm and fuzzy. Quite a daunting task.

[Pavulon]

116. Enforce the laws, not really a technicality

you know, I did not bring this up. Here is the deal man. There is such a thing as technical language. When you use technical language you are responsible for using it correctly.

I am sure you have some field of specialty. There is a language that surrounds it. From flipping burgers to brain surgery, if you use technical language, know your shit.

He should not have had the weapon, of course he should not have shot people either.

[ProudDad]

70. You mean he might get more than Life Without Parole

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Pavulon]

117. You think

every person who kills a person gets life with no parole? The majority of killings are pled down to charges that require 5 -15 years.

[ProudDad]

128. You don't have to worry about this poor schleb

the cops killed him. Surprise, surprise...

[whistle]

2. Crap, here it goes again...Anyone guess the odds that the shooter

...is mentally ill or has a history of mental illness?

[kimmerspixelated]

4. Still, the mentally ill wouldn't be so quick to use a knife instead!

I hate friggin' guns!

[ohio2007]

19. I say odds that the shooter had a

prior drug problem that could have led to mental problem is a safe bet also.
dunno how much the the shooters private life will be released or even rebroadcasted by the clueless MSM but it would be a story worth following

[raccoon]

100. Or a mental problem could have led to a drug problem.

Lots of times people who have mental problems self-medicate with drugs or alcohol. The mental problem often hasn't been diagnosed, so they self-medicate to deal with the depression or other problem.

[slackmaster]

56. Anyone who goes off shooting people is obviously batshit crazy

That's not something a mentally healthy person does.

[shenmue]

5. Why do people have to shoot a bunch of strangers?

Why people who have done nothing to you?

:cry:

Just get a hunting license and shoot stuff in the woods, for pity's sake...

[brentspeak]

44. Strangers...or anybody else, for that matter

[thecrow]

6. Rob Low

Perfect name for a FAUX news reporter...
:rofl:

[Judi Lynn]

8. There are two killed right now. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

10. Several Shot At Ward Parkway Shopping Center (Kansas City, Missouri)

Source: KMBC tv, Kansas City, Missouri

Several Shot At Ward Parkway Shopping Center

POSTED: 4:25 pm CDT April 29, 2007
UPDATED: 4:28 pm CDT April 29, 2007

There has been a shooting at the Ward Parkway Shopping Center at 86th and Ward Parkway.

KMBC-TV reported that there are multiple victims and that there is a continuing search for possibly more victims inside the center. The Target store is on the north end of the Ward Parkway Shopping Center, and there was crime scene tape shown. First reports said at least three people were wounded, Larry Moore reported.

Marcus Moore was on the scene and said witnesses said it was an "absolutely terrifying" experience. The shooter apparently started shooting in another part of the mall, then went to the Target store and continued shooting, Moore reported. People fled from the store and started hiding in the aisles, he said.

Moore said that very little is known about the shooter, but that all indications seem that the attack was an unprovoked incident.



Read more: http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13219012/detail.html

---

This just happened. Will add more as available.

[Rock_Garden]

11. Thank you so much.

I live in the KC area but had no idea, as I've been putzing around outside.

[flyarm]

12. WOW I USED TO LIVE IN KC AND SHOPPED THERE OFTEN!

i hope not many are seriously injured..terrible!!

fly

[Judi Lynn]

14. Two have been killed. That's the current perception.

A cop was shot (not fatally, I think) and the killer used an AK-47.

[benEzra]

51. News says the officer was shot in the arm with a pistol. (n/t)

[Judi Lynn]

52. That was the news available at 5:47. It has been updated, of course. n/t

[calimary]

18. Me too.

This is awful!

So sad! SUCH a waste! :cry:

Oh, but for chrissakes, we gotta have our goddamned GUNS.

Seriously. I wonder, when something like this erupts, assuming everybody around the gunman also had guns, do you REALLY think ANYONE beyond an off-duty SWAT team member would even have the presence of mind to reach for his/her weapon in enough time to "get" the gunman? Frankly, when emotions are high and events are this explosive, sudden, and unpredictable, I would SERIOUSLY doubt it. And then, of course, the cops would burst in on the scene and find - guess what? A whole bunch of crazed, extremely-overwrought people running around with guns (at least those who weren't already face-down in a puddle of blood)! Now, wouldn't THAT be just simply dandy? :sarcasm:

[tanyev]

21. Oh, the freepers would, don'cha know.

They could be sunbathing on a beach and if an armed gunman showed up they would be able to pull their concealed weapon out of their swimsuit and take him down and save thousands and thousands of lives.


Me too.
:sarcasm:

[krispos42]

72. Studies have shown the per-capita gun ownership rates...

do not affect overall crime rates. All it does is effect gun crime rates.

2/3 of ALL civilian-owned firearms in the world are in the hands of US civilians. Our civilian firearms ownership rate is 40 times the rest of the world's average. We have something like 775 guns per 1,000 people in this country.

If you want to cut the crime and murder rates, legalize drugs. If the Democrats are going to pass laws that cost us the White House and House of Representatives in 2008, I'd rather it be for a law that would actually help society, rather than a useless ban on cosmetic features again.

[iverglas]

83. yassss

Studies have shown the per-capita gun ownership rates...
do not affect overall crime rates. All it does is effect gun crime rates.

Just as many robberies in Canada as in the US ... just funny how so many fewer of 'em end in homicide ...

In 2005:
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/051006/d051006b.htm

There were 33 victims killed during a robbery, two-thirds of which occurred in the victim's residence. Half of those victims killed in their own home were over the age of 60.

In 2004, there were 988 people killed in the US in the course of a robbery + 77 killed in the course of a burglary:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html
At the Canadian rate, prorated for the US, there would have been nearly 300 such homicides (33x9). The US rate of robbery/burglary homicide was over 3 times the Canadian rate.

And damn, your statement really just isn't quite accurate even for, say, just plain robberies, is it?

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm

The Daily

The Daily. Tuesday, December 18, 2001
Crime comparisons between Canada and the United States
2000

Over the past 20 years, Canada recorded much lower rates of violent crime than the United States did. However, rates for property offences have generally been higher in Canada, according to a comparison of police-reported crime between the two nations.

Crime rates in both countries have followed similar trends during the past two decades. After peaking in 1991, rates for both violent and property crime generally declined throughout the 1990s.

Based on selected offences, the United States has had a much higher rate of reported violent crime than Canada. The homicide rate was three times higher in the United States than it was in Canada, while the American rate for aggravated assault was double the Canadian rate. For robbery, the rate was 65% higher in the United States.

On the other hand, since 1990, Canada has recorded slightly higher rates of property crime, although the rates have gradually been converging during the late 1990s. Canada has higher reported rates than the United States for breaking and entering, motor vehicle theft and arson.

"Overall crime rates" covers such a multitude of, er, sins, don't it? If you really really want to pretend that a car theft = a homicide ...

In 2000, Americans were far more likely than Canadians to be victims of aggravated assault. The U.S. rate of 324 aggravated assaults for every 100,000 population was more than double the Canadian rate of 143. However, the U.S. rate has been falling since 1994, culminating with a 3% decline in 2000. In contrast, the Canadian rate has remained relatively stable since 1994, but was up 7% in 2000.

The American rate of reported robbery was 65% higher than in Canada in 2000, and the difference was much more pronounced with respect to robberies committed with a firearm. In 2000, firearms were involved in 41% of robberies south of the border, compared with only 16% in Canada. Since 1991, police-reported robbery rates have been declining in both countries. During this period, rates fell 47% in the United States-almost twice the 26% decline in Canada.

Since then, the rate of firearm robbery in Canada has declined significantly.

Heh heh:

While shoplifting and "other thefts," such as pick-pocketing, were greater in the United States, Canadian police reported higher rates of bicycle theft. Since 1991, both countries have experienced general declines in total thefts.

I wonder whether this bicycle theft business would be because Canadians actually own/use bicycles. Had two stolen myself, in my younger days; they were my primary transportation.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050721/d050721a.htm

Robberies with a firearm continue to decline

The rate of robbery incidents fell 4% in 2004. Police reported more than 27,000 robberies, half of which were committed without a weapon of any kind. The rate of robberies committed with a firearm continued to decline, down 3% in 2004, accounting for one in seven robberies. The remaining 35% of robberies were committed with other weapons such as knives.

Despite a national decline in robbery incidents, the Atlantic provinces experienced significant increases in 2004, ranging from 19% in Nova Scotia to almost 100% in Newfoundland and Labrador. However, robbery rates in the Atlantic provinces continue to be below the national rate.

About 41% of all robberies occurred in commercial establishments, including 16% in convenience stores or gas stations and 5% in banks. The next most common locations were streets/sidewalks (30%), private residences (8%) parking lots (6%) and open areas (5%).

In 2004, 27,000 robberies (theft with violence or threats) -- 3% of 27,000 would be just over 800 -- in a population of about 31 million. An equivalent prorated number of firearms robberies rate for the US would be about 7200 (800x9). Haha.


http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060720/d060720b.htm

2005

Canada's national crime rate, based on incidents reported to police, fell 5% last year — despite increases in serious crimes such as homicide, attempted murder, serious assaults and robbery.

Declines in non-violent offences such as counterfeiting, break-ins and auto thefts accounted for most of the decline in the crime rate, which fell in every province and territory.

The homicide rate increased 4% to the highest level in almost a decade. However, the overall violent crime rate was unchanged, while the property crime rate fell 6%. The rate of drug offences declined in 2005 as did overall youth crime.

The national crime rate has been relatively stable since 1999, with last year's 5% decrease offsetting a 6% hike in 2003. The crime rate declined during the 1990s, after rising throughout most of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.

... The rate of robbery incidents rose 3%, but it was still 15% lower than a decade ago. Police reported almost 29,000 robberies, more than half of which were committed without a weapon of any kind. Robberies committed with a firearm continued to drop, falling 5% last year.

You seem to need to keep practising this shit in the gun dungeon; not quite ready for prime time yet, I'd say.

[krispos42]

86. I see you've exorcised the tadpoles in the eyeballs!

Welcome back! It's been quiet without you here!

:hi:

[iverglas]

87. fruitflies

Some sort of sea change happened yesterday ... the macular edema may be abating, but I was chopping stuff in the kitchen and suddenly was being swarmed. Not fruit flies already, it's barely spring, I thought semi-consciously. (Kitchen compost, not emptied with sufficient frequency, houses them in summer.) A minute later they entered my consciousness and I turned to swat ... and realized they were in my eye. Something large seems to have broken up into smaller bits of debris ...

The nose still works, though (well, as well as it ever did with a deviated septum and a basic lack of sensitivity to odour to start with), and still recognizes manure when it encounters it.

But don't look for me in the nether world (except for a brief sally this morning, in response to a prompt). Gastrointestinal tract seems to be more sensitive these days. I'll just wait for the moles to emerge into the daylight to whack them.

[krispos42]

91. Fruitfiles, eh?

Well, as least we know they won't grow to the side of an orange, like a tadpole will! :rofl:

At least it's not painful.

It's, um, not painful anymore, right? :blush:

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. My best friend works there

I am still trying to get ahold of her. Just now saw this on the news. Damn this is horrible.

[MuseRider]

13. Better call my son and his girlfriend

damn! Thanks, I was watching an opera and had no idea.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Just now seeing it on local news

My best friend works there! I can't get ahold of her. Her line is busy so I hope she is on the phone.

Damn this is horrible. That is a nice shopping center.

[Neecy]

15. This is scary

My sister lives about 2 blocks from the shopping center and just called - she said the sirens and helicopters are crazy right now.

It looks like the shooter was shot and wounded, but she's battening down the hatches until it's confirmed that he's in custody. She used a lot of profanity when mentioning the Republican congress letting the assault weapon ban expire. Fucker used an AK.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

31. How would the assault weapon ban have stopped it?

[Neecy]

35. he apparently had an assault rifle

As well as a handgun he used to shoot a cop earlier.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

40. But how would the Assault Weapons Ban have stopped it?

What is your relative's anger directed at?

[Neecy]

42. well, gee

He might not have been able to buy his assault rifle.

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) was a provision of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a federal law of the United States that included a prohibition on the sale of semi-automatic "assault weapons" manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment. The ten-year ban was passed by Congress on September 13, 1994 and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban expired on September 13, 2004, as part of the law's sunset provision.

Of course, I knew the gun apologists would be plentiful - they always are after innocent people are slaughtered by their toys.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

45. Sorry you are dead wrong.

Suggest you keep reading and find the definition of "assault weapon" as defined by the legislation. Me thinks you don't quite understand it.

Haha gun apologist. Next time someone is slaughtered by a knife or a bat I'll make sure to apologize for those too.

Maybe we can get the evil barrel shrouds too.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[krispos42]

55. An 'assault weapon' was defined by certain cosmetic features

For example, a semiautomatic rifle that had a pistol grip and a detachable magazine was not an 'assault weapon', but a semiautomatic rifle that had a pistol grip, detachable magazine, and bayonet mounting hardware was. Or instead of a bayonet lug, a flash supressor.

It's like defining a race car by cosmetic add-ons like big rims, low-profile tires, ground-effect lighting, air dams, and rear spoilers instead of things like handling, horsepower-to-weight ration, and braking ability.

During the 1993 AWB, the manufacturers and importers of semi-automatic rifles made the necessary changes. Thumbhole stocks instead of pistol grips. No flash supressors. Bayonet lugs ground off. That kind of thing.

Essentially, the 1993 AWB tried to ban guns that 'looked scary'. Please note that guns sold before the 1993 ban were still legal to own and transfer. The ones sold during were not materially different.

[benEzra]

43. The Feinstein ban didn't restrict civilian AK lookalikes, it just said

that civilian AK lookalikes couldn't have bayonets or screw-on muzzle brakes (but pin-on brakes were OK). Apparently, she felt that was worth throwing away Congress over.

I know, I own one, a ban-era SAR-1 (2002 model). No bayonet lug.

FWIW, latest news reports are just saying "a long gun" (not even sure if it was a rifle or shotgun). Still waiting to see what was actually used.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

46. But does it have a barrel shroud? That is the key.

[Judi Lynn]

49. Just saw that info. in the updated story at a local tv station:

~snip~
Sanders said the shooting did not start at the mall. He said events started with the death investigation of an older woman in the 3700 block of East 93rd Street. It was at that point, detectives discovered the woman's car was missing. Detectives put out a description of the missing car.

At 3:11 p.m., authorities said a police officer pulled over a car matching the description of the missing car in the 1311 block of Bannister Road. Sanders said the officer was in the process of arresting the man when the driver pulled out a handgun and shot the officer in the arm. The driver then took off, Sanders said.

The officer notified authorities with a description of the gunman and the car he was in. At about 3:27 p.m., shots were reported at Ward Parkway Shopping Center.

"We got information here at 8500 State Line that there was a man who had come into the shopping center with a long gun. He came into the center in the area of the Target store. The Target employees, and of course, the mall was crowded with hundreds of people, everybody was leaving the mall when officers ran inside. They confronted the man and after confronting him shot and killed him," Sanders said.

Investigators said when the gunman first arrived at the mall, he pulled into a parking space and shot two people on either side of his car. Those people died at the scene. Their names have not been released.
(snip)

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13219012/detail.html

[Seedersandleechers]

16. THAT IS WHERE I SHOP

I wonder if my BF went shopping there today.

[Telly Savalas]

30. That's where I shop too.

I was just there last night with my 5 year old. This wild west bullshit really pisses me off.

[Neecy]

17. mall is still on lockdown

The guy shot up a Starbucks - most of the glass is shot out. Apparently he ran into Target and started shooting around the checkout stands.

On the news they're talking to someone who's locked inside of Pier 1 - the cops aren't letting anyone out.

Three dead so far.

[Judi Lynn]

20. According to a CBS local affiliate, cops killed the "shooter."

They apparently didn't take too long homing in on him and nailed him. It could have been far worse, obviously, if they hadn't moved so quickly.

There is a belief which the local news stations have relayed that there was a traffic stop going on on a road near that shopping mall, and when the cop approached a man's car and bent over to speak to him, he was shot, and the man took off, with the cop firing at the back of his maroon Oldsmobile, shooting out the back window.

They say that car was found in the parking lot at Ward Parkway.

There are witnesses who said he walked through the parking lot shooting at people and headed into the mall. This is truly odd.

[ohio2007]

22. so the plot thinkens but iIdoubt we will get the story

The 'shooter' was stopped by the police for a traffic infraction. I wonder what came back on him when they ran his plates ?

[Judi Lynn]

23. I just heard a few minutes ago that he was driving a stolen car. I think that's the story they're

giving at the moment.

It kinda sounds as if he hadn't meant to go to Ward Parkway mall, but may have been running there to hide out??? It's all so wierd.

From what witnesses have said, some people who saw him walking through the parking lot shooting ran into the mall to hide. After he was inside, people started running to the parking lot to escape.

A Kansas City, Missouri police officer said that there are some people who were shot who got themselves to local hospitals before the police got there.

It does all sound as if whatever this was, it started during the traffic stop several blocks away.

[ohio2007]

26. Stole a car, holding an "alleged" AK-47 , wonder what else he was

carrying before he had the car.

[Judi Lynn]

28. Local police say they're going to be there all night, "working backwards" with the information

they've got now, to get to the truth about this guy.

It's too bad they can't just ASK him, for chrissakes! Maybe someone will bring an Ouija board.

[ohio2007]

29. Thats exactly what I'm talking about.

Will the media get the guys name?
Will they go to his house, talk to his family or are such questions an invasion of privacy ?

An AK-47,stolen car and previous murder scene.......

imo, the "truth" is going to be ugly.

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. Not according to the link above - he was a suspect in a shooting elsewhere

Sanders said the shooting did not start at the mall. He said it started with a death investigation in the 3700 block of East 93rd Street. It was at that point, detectives discovered the vehicle had been stolen. A description of the missing was put out.

A police officer pulled over a car matching the description a short time later in the 1330 block of Bannister Road. Sanders said the officer was in the process of arresting the man when the driver pulled out a handgun and shot the officer in the arm. The driver then took off, Sanders said.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13219012/detail.html

[ohio2007]

27. what kind of area is the 3700 block of East 93rd Street ?

anybody familiar with that area?

[Judi Lynn]

33. Sorry to say, can't remember, don't go over there normally, staying on the Kansas side of the

State Line, entering the shopping mall from the Kansas side.

It's all an established ordinary residential area, I believe.

[Judi Lynn]

36. Finally there's a direct reference to another killing. This hasn't been mentioned on local tv yet.

Four die in Kansas City shootings
Email Print Normal font Large font April 30, 2007 - 8:14AM

Four people were shot and killed, including an assailant, and at least three others were wounded in two incidents, including one at a crowded shopping mall in Kansas City, police said.

Kansas City police were uncertain if the same man was involved at the two locations and were treating them as two separate incidents.

One person was killed in a house and two others were killed at the upscale Ward Parkway mall south of downtown Kansas City about 10 km away, where police killed a gunman, according to Sgt Tony Sanders of the Kansas City police.

One of the wounded was a police officer who had responded to calls of the first shooting. His injuries were not life-threatening, police said.

More:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Four-die-in-Kansas-City-shootings/2007/04/30/1177788004006.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It would seem likely the three incidents are related, being so close together at the same time.

[bluerum]

38. Damn. If only some old granny pulled out a .44 and plugged him - how

cool would that be huh?
:sarcasm:

[Judi Lynn]

39. There'd be dancing in the streets in a few places.

Missouri just got the right to carry concealed weapons in the last coupla years, I think. This will have them all hopped up, informing each other they only wish they had been there to save the day.

So many would-be heroes, so little time until the first colossal free-for-all, with TONS of dead guys, rather than the customary several.

[iverglas]

67. but ... but ...

http://www.moccw.org/

directs readers to:
http://www.kljamisonlaw.com/updates.asp

On 11 September, 2003, the Missouri Senate overrode the veto of License to Carry. The bill was scheduled to become law thirty days thereafter.

A lawsuit delayed and altered implementation of the law. On 26 February, 2004 the Missouri Supreme court ruled that the law is constitutional, summarily rejecting the plaintiff's constitutionality argument and predictions of disaster. ...

The Missouri legislature has passed a Hancock fix to the LTC law. Governor Matt Blunt signed the bill on 12 July, 2005. This forced St. Louis city and St. Louis county, the only holdout jurisdictions, to begin issuing licenses.

http://www.moccw.org/opponents.html
"Anti Self-Defense Businesses in Missouri"

Silver Dollar City

Silver Dollar City, Inc. is a privately held management company run by members of the Herschend family, including Mr. Peter Herschend. Very large donations to defeat Prop. B were made both by Silver Dollar City as well as personally by Peter Herschend.

Mr. Herschend is a true anti-gunner, going beyond merely donating large sums of money to defeat Prop. B, but actively lobbying against it in a very high-profile public manner.

It is doubly ironic, since many of the public attractions SDC Inc. owns or manages are located in states that already have good laws permitting the carrying of concealed weapons by honest citizens.

In Georgia for instance (which has a good solid CCW law) businesses are not even allowed to post against concealed carry, as Missouri businesses would have under Prop. B. Law abiding Georgia citizens have been carrying their concealed firearms into Stone Mountain Park, White Water Atlanta and American Adventures Park for years, and have clearly demonstrated that they pose no threat to fellow park-goers. Like CCW laws in so many other states, the only impact is that violent criminals lose their guarantee of safe working conditions.

I wonder what went wrong in Kansas City ...

How fast can the gun-heads spin? One would think they might be getting just a tad dizzy.

[Irreverend IX]

69. Don't you have some corrupt cops to defend?

No one has ever stated that concealed carry will eliminate all public shootings. Using this story to attack concealed carry licensing is like declaring airbags in cars useless because people have died in crashes despite having cars with airbags. I didn't notice any comments from you in threads on the Damon Wells self-defense story. How telling.

[iverglas]

Mu. But I'm sure you have some bullshit to be spreading.

Using this story to attack concealed carry licensing is like declaring airbags in cars useless because people have died in crashes despite having cars with airbags.

If only someone had done that, you wouldn't look like a disingenuous demagogue. Oh, well, of course your post title would have accomplished that anyhow.

However, multiple people HAVE used mass murders to ADVOCATE permitting the carrying of concealed firearms; but I'm sure you've missed that.

I didn't notice any comments from you in threads on the Damon Wells self-defense story. How telling.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Do you imagine that I find the minutiae of USAmerican local news that fascinating? This particular story was reported on the news on the channel I happened to be watching this evening; don't know what channel it was; could have been Canadian, could have been from south of the border. We're cosmopolitan in our viewing habits, and have ready access to a bunch of furrin stuff, but we don't actually devote our lives to trying to keep up with how many guns went off somewhere in the US every day. Whew, that would be exhausting.

[Irreverend IX]

68. Please post a news story...

About a "free-for-all" shooting with many dead as a result of CCW holders. Until you do that, I'll have to write off all the "deadly crossfire" attacks on CCW as bullshit.

[ProudDad]

71. Naw, it'd be cooler if some

big beafy football coach pulled his piece and had his fool head shot off!

That would be the most likely result in real life.

[krispos42]

75. It would have been very cool.

This entire sorry episode would have ended with the shooter dead in the first victim's doorway. If the first victim, an eldery woman I believe, had reacted like that granny in Georgia that shot three deputies that were raiding her house (the wrong house) when they kicked the door in, three more people would have been alive. Innocent people, presumebly.

[bluerum]

114. Turn. Off. The. Television. eom

[Judi Lynn]

25. Two dead in US shooting spree

Two dead in US shooting spree
April 30, 2007 - 8:46AM

Two people have been killed and at least two others wounded in a shooting at an American shopping centre.

There are conflicting reports about whether the suspect is among the dead or is in custody.

A police spokeswoman said there had been multiple shootings at the upscale Ward Parkway mall in Kansas City, Missouri, and the shooter had been wounded. She had no other details.

Media reports said the suspect shot a police officer in the arm during a traffic check and then drove to the mall where he opened fire with what may have been an AK-47 assault rifle.

One eyewitness told CNN he heard three or four shots near the checkout isles of a department store, and his son saw a man on the ground in shock with blood on his face.

More:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/two-dead-in-us-mall-shooting/2007/04/30/1177788004388.html

[Judi Lynn]

34. Officials: Three dead at Kansas City shopping center

Officials: Three dead at Kansas City shopping center
Police responded to a mall shooting Sunday in Kansas City, Missouri
CNN

KANSAS CITY (CNN) - (04/29/07)--Three people died and at least two others were wounded Sunday in a shooting at a shopping mall in Kansas City, Missouri, a Fire Department official said.

In addition, a police officer was wounded in a nearby incident authorities believe is related, Kansas City Fire Department Battalion Chief Joe Vitale said. He added that the dead include the original shooter.

The dead and two or three others who were wounded were at Ward Parkway Shopping Center, about nine miles south of downtown Kansas City, Vitale said.

Janet Coleman said she saw "a young man with a sawed-off shotgun" in the parking lot being chased by police.

"I could just see a blunt-sized gun bigger than, like a regular .44," she said, adding that she gained her expertise in weapons from watching "a lot of crime TV."

More:
http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=nation_world&id=5256745

[bluerum]

37. Just waiting for the gun crowd to start their NRA talking points. 5-4-3-2-1

0
:sarcasm: :mad:

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

41. Yeah, the gun-grabbers have already started theirs, why not make it a party.

[Trajan]

73. Look at me ....

Im a gun grabber .....

Gimme Gimme Gimme that gun .... :sarcasm:

Again, the gungeon rises ....

[ProudDad]

74. Why would you call those of us who urge a sane

gun control policy "gun grabbers"?

All I want is that guns be extremely rare and adequately regulated. I'd like to see the pathology of gun love breed out of the American People as it has been in the Civilized West.

Nothing about grabbing.

I would like to see guns treated as seriously as cars. Just as one has to give one's name, address, photograph and thumb print to drive a fucking car, a law that required all guns be registered with the same information on the owner along with the seller's info and the manufacturer along with serial numbers on all bullets with the buyer of the bullets being included in the database would seem reasonable.

Then, if a gun used in a crime is traced back to one of these registered guns, the owner, seller and manufacturer go to prison. If not, the perpetrator's time in prison would be trebled for the use of a gun.

This requires those whose inadequacies require gun ownership to take responsibility for their pathology.

Nothing about gun grabbing unless the gun is used in a crime. Then it would be melted down to contribute to a monument to human stupidity.

[krispos42]

82. Ah, sane gun control policy

When one is posted by a gun-conrol advocate, I'd like to see it. I haven't seen one yet.

I'd also like you to apply what you just said to abortion, and call it a 'sane abortion policy'.

I find it absolutely facinating that many on the left, who justifibly ridicule BushCo's infringement on our rights (like Gonzo saying "We're not taking away your right to habeas corpus, you didn't have one to begin with! We can't take away what you don't have!") all of a sudden being using BushCo tactics:

1) Declare it's not a right after all.
2) Once you've established it's not a right, regulate the shit out of it in the name of 'national security' or 'public safety'.
3) Tell the population that anybody that disagrees with your 'reasonable security measure' is supporting terrorism.

[iverglas]

85. ah yes, abortion and firearms possession; veritable Granny Smiths and Macintoshes, eh?

Yes, women's reproductive choices are just so much like the possession of firearms, aren't they?

To a misogynist, maybe. Can't think of why anybody but a misogynist would even think of putting the two in the same basket.


http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2007/04/virginia_tech_women.html

Of all the lessons contained in the horror at Virginia Tech, the one least likely to be learned has to do with the deadly danger posed by the dismissive way we still view violence against women.

... In fact, these attitudes ignore past evidence of both "domestic disputes" and a more generalized misogyny as motives in mass killings. Multiple murders in homes and workplaces often begin with a man killing his wife or girlfriend. Mark Barton, who in 1999 shot nine people in an Atlanta office building, began the day by bludgeoning to death his children and his wife; six years earlier he had been a suspect in the death of his first wife and her mother, who were also beaten to death. In another high-profile case, the December 1989 mass shooting at Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique, Marc Lepine was after women, whom he hated, and had a list of feminists he wanted to kill. He murdered four men and 14 women, and wounded 10 more women. In September 2006, Duane Roger Morrison walked into Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colo., and took six female students hostage, killing one. And last October, Charles Carl Roberts IV took over an Amish schoolhouse, let the boys go, and killed five girls.

One warning sign in such cases is a history of stalking and harassment of women. ...

Yes, yes. Free access to firearms for woman-haters is just so much like women exercising their fundamental rights.

In case anyone's confused: free access to firearms MEANS free access to firearms for woman-haters. Duh.

Free access to abortion means free access to abortion for ... um, give me a minute here ... women, that's it. Women who use those abortions to rob and maim and terrorize, that's right. Guess it was moi who was confused.

[krispos42]

88. The arguments are similar

Too late in the evening to re-list them. Here's a link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=697952

Suffice to note that many people think that you don't have that fundamental right. Whether guns or abortion, xx% of people want restrictions because they feel uncomfortable with it being 'on-demand'. They feel that there should be 'reasonable' limits on them because of the perceived damage to society, and if you don't think they are 'reasonable', then you're just a nutjob, unreachable by logic and reason.

If there were groups of pregnent women hiring coaches to go to abortion clinics en masse, the hardcore anti-abortion people would be as upset at the 'mass slaughter of innocent life' as hardcore gun-control people are at mass shootings like the Ecole or Virginia Tech.

And I don't hate women, I neither advocate nor perpetuate violence or abuse towards them, and I'm not real thrilled with the accusation. Despite having my heart broken (ripped out and shit on, perhaps?)by my ex, by the way. I still seek a mate of the feminine persuasion, and feel incomplete without it.

Frankly, the more women that shoot their rapists and abusive husbands in the act, the better. I certainly won't shed a tear when some rapist takes two in the chest with his pants down.

My point is the arguments are similar. Gun ownership is not an issue of sexism, as both genders can equally purchase and keep guns. The arguments about whether or not it is a fundamental right, the basis on which people form their (informed or not) opinions on the manner, which aspects of laws on the two topics are informed and reasonable and which aren't, those are what I'm talking about.

Incidently, speaking of gender inequality, did you know that 'a well-regulated militia' is grossly sexist?

[iverglas]

92. suffice it to note ...

Suffice to note that many people think that you don't have that fundamental right.

... that I don't actually give a shit. I tend not to give a shit about whether people think that I don't have a fundamental right.

When people come up with some JUSTIFICATION for LIMITING my EXERCISE of a fundamental right, I'll listen. And I'll be pleased to let you know when that happens in the case of reproductive rights (that is, the right to life, liberty and security of the person). I remain on eager alert.

Whether guns or abortion, xx% of people want restrictions because they feel uncomfortable with it being 'on-demand'.

Yes, now let's substitute "pizza" for "guns" and see how ridiculous it looks, and how fascistic the people who feel uncomfortable with pizza being available on demand look. Kinda like people who feel uncomfortable with abortion being available on demand.

When you come up with an instance in which someone has used exercised his/her right to eat what s/he pleases or do deal with his/her pregnancy as s/he pleases to maim, kill or terrorize someone else, let me know. Otherwise, the "analogy" will stay in the "specious" file.

The day when anyone's ability to exercise a fundamental right is fettered because someone else is "uncomfortable" about it is the day when the funeral for liberal democracy is held.

And the day when abhorring the thousands of deaths and thousands more injuries, and thousands of terrorized women and children and neighbourhoods and countries, and horrific costs to economies, that result from firearms use is reasonably characterized as being "uncomfortable" with guns is the day when demagoguery assumes dominion.

So I clicked. And suppressed my gag reflex.

But regardless... only a tiny fraction of guns kill people, but 100% of all abortions do, right? Right? Right?

Hmm. Did someone here say misogyny? What on earth point did you think you were making?

If there were groups of pregnent women hiring coaches to go to abortion clinics en masse, the hardcore anti-abortion people would be as upset at the 'mass slaughter of innocent life' as hardcore gun-control people are at mass shootings like the Ecole or Virginia Tech.

Uh, that didn't make a shred of sense.

And I don't hate women, I neither advocate nor perpetuate violence or abuse towards them, and I'm not real thrilled with the accusation.

Congratulations. A whole lot of Germans didn't hate Jews, or Roma, or homosexuals, or advocate or perpetuate violence of abuse towards them. They just did nothing. Of course, opposing firearms control isn't quite doing nothing.

Frankly, the more women that shoot their rapists and abusive husbands in the act, the better.

Frankly, these moronic fantasies -- actually, ignorant and/or intentional denials of women's realities -- make me ill.

Gun ownership is not an issue of sexism, as both genders can equally purchase and keep guns.

And there's another bit of incoherency. Especially since I said nothing about sexism. Consult a dictionary for misogyny, maybe. And recall that I wasn't talking about "gun ownership", I was talking about free access to firearms.

The arguments about whether or not it is a fundamental right ...

... are a stupid waste of time, prompted by people trying to cloak their agenda in fancy dress.

Wanna argue about whether or not the moon is made of green cheese next?

[krispos42]

120. "I tend not to give a shit about whether people think that I don't have a fundamental right"

So when do you give a shit? When the people who think you don't have a fundamental right start protesting? When they start giving money to lawmakers? When lawmakers start proposing bills? Or when lawmakers start voting on bills?

Yes, now let's substitute "pizza" for "guns" and see how ridiculous it looks

Yes, substituting 'pizza' for 'guns' is ridiculous.

So I clicked. And suppressed my gag reflex.

Welcome. I suspect that many people of the gun-rights persuasion feel the same way as soon as people start talking about 'reasonable' gun control laws and the like.

I am fully aware of the fact that abortion rights is an extension (or part of, I'm not sure which term is best but I suspect the latter) of the right to privacy and control over one's own body, while gun rights is part of (or an extension of) property rights. I also expressly am of the opinion that privacy and control over one's body is the greater of the two rights in question.

I am pretty sure that, like many pro-choice people, you get heartily sick and tired of people that are either a) men, or b) ignorant, talk about restrictions abortion as if they are experts in the field. Like they've been through it.

"Oh, we have to ban this procedure because research shows..." oh, I don't know, pick one, an increase in uncle abuse or a tendency to wear mismatched socks, or some other line of right-wing bullshit "... after a woman has an abortion!" by some pontificating old white guy in a suit on TV.

I know I'm heartily sick of it.

But it's not the only topic I feel that way about.

What on earth point did you think you were making?

Perhaps this will help, though I thought it unneccessary.

":sarcasm:"

Congratulations. A whole lot of Germans didn't hate Jews, or Roma, or homosexuals, or advocate or perpetuate violence of abuse towards them. They just did nothing. Of course, opposing firearms control isn't quite doing nothing.

Thank you. I don't think I've been accused of being a Nazi yet on this board. Or a Nazi sympathizer, at least. Kind of surprising, I guess, being that I'm half Italian and a quarter German. Maybe the English and Cherokee parts are keeping them in check...

FYI and FWIW whenever I see fit to write my elected representatives I always, always, make a very sharp and moderately lengthy point about privacy and a woman's right to choose, to have control over her body.

Wanna argue about whether or not the moon is made of green cheese next?

Not interested, because I like my cheese either yellow-orange or white! :-)

[ProudDad]

126. Abortions don't kill PEOPLE

Guns kill PEOPLE...

abortion vs. gun control = stupid argument

[Irreverend IX]

90. Here's a piece I wrote on the similarities...

See the final two paragraphs in particular. Reproductive rights and self-defense rights both represent sovereignty over and responsibility for one's own body.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=692903

And "free access to firearms for woman-haters?" How intellectually dishonest can you get? The 2A guarantees everyone's right to guns; absent firearms, there's not much the average woman can do to put herself on the same plane as the average man in a violent encounter. With a gun, the smallest woman can easily kill the biggest and toughest man.

[iverglas]

93. how dim can one get?

And "free access to firearms for woman-haters?" How intellectually dishonest can you get? The 2A guarantees everyone's right to guns

You write it, and yet you can't read it?

"Everyone", a subset of which is "woman-haters". As I said: duh.

In case anyone's confused: free access to firearms MEANS free access to firearms for woman-haters.

The, er, intellectualy dishonesty would seem to lie in the disregard for that obvious fact, made explicit for your assistance though it was.

Gee. What a shame that icky thread of yours didn't get the attention it deserved.

Oops. It did.

[Scout]

121. "What a shame that icky thread of yours didn't get the attention it deserved."

"Oops. It did."


:rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause:

[iverglas]

131. oh dearie me

I read your post, and - confession time - it took me a minute to get the joke.

Haha, that's damned funny, I thought.

And then I reread my post that you were replying to. And discovered that it was mine own joke.

Isn't it wonderful, getting old? You can laugh at your own jokes, over and over ... if you still get them ...

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

94. The pathology is actually those with a fear of guns.

People with felony convictions are already precluded from owning guns. So even if you don't use a gun in a crime but are a felon you can't have one.

Those with restraining orders or domestic violence convictions can't have on either.

Penis jokes (even veiled ones) are funny. I already have my red Vette, so my inadequacy is quite covered, thank you.

By the way, if a gun is used in a crime, it is taken away. Not to mention, gun crimes are, well, crimes.

You don't need a license to drive a car on your own property. You can own and operate a car to your heart's content without any sort of checks if you have the space to drive it on your land. You only need a license if you use it on public roads.

[iverglas]

95. tsk

So even if you don't use a gun in a crime but are a felon you can't have one.

I think you mean "mayn't have one". Many "felons" seem to have no difficulty at all having guns, so it would really seem to be quite false to say they can't have them.

I mayn't drive over the speed limit. And yet - gasp - I do. Not on my own narrow little residential street, though, where of course I wouldn't anyway. But in this case I actually can't -- at least not without losing some of the underbelly of my car. Speed humps. Some other streets around here are even more effective at making people unable to speed: curbed circles in intersections, zigzagging street layouts and the like.

Those with restraining orders or domestic violence convictions can't have on either.

Er, ditto.

By the way, if a gun is used in a crime, it is taken away.

Er, no. Do you often experience this confusion between prescription and description?

If a firearm is used in a crime *and* the person who committed the crime is apprehended *and* that person is in possession of the firearm in question, the firearm could be taken away. It can't be taken away if those conditions aren't met, really. Not as you meant, anyhow.

Not to mention, gun crimes are, well, crimes.

And dead people are, well, dead.

You don't need a license to drive a car on your own property. You can own and operate a car to your heart's content without any sort of checks if you have the space to drive it on your land. You only need a license if you use it on public roads.

Yes, but just think -- as soon as that Klingon cloaking device reaches this corner of the galaxy, nobody will know when you drive your unregistered car off your property even though you don't have a driver's licence!

Meanwhile, you could try jamming it in your jeans ... but it might stick out and be a bit obvious.

Not quite like a gun, somehow.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

96. I love arguments based only on semantics.

You know what I meant.

You should not kill people by any means, but it happens.

Many things that shouldn't be done are still done.

The point still stands, there are already laws covering what you bring up.

[iverglas]

97. big whup, eh?

The point still stands, there are already laws covering what you bring up.

That was a point?

I had one. You seemed to have missed it.

Making laws is not the be-all and end-all of prevention. It's barely even a start, in many cases.

Anybody who gives a shit about other people is concerned with preventing harm at least as much as with punishing those who cause it. And, out of that concern, investigates ways of preventing harm, and doesn't just natter about punishing people who cause it.

And you?

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

98. Nanny state then huh?

We expect a nanny state to protect us from ourselves.

Hell, let's outlaw matches b/c someone might burn a building down. Let's make it a felony to even start a fire since open fires cause so many forest fires.

[iverglas]

99. bibbety bobbity boo then, eh?

I figured.


We expect a nanny state to protect us from ourselves.

Did I sound interested in being protected from myself? Perhaps you're using some sort of print-to-voice conversation software and it's malfunctioning.

I'm not planning to shoot myself, or run myself over by speeding down my street. Imagine that.


Hell, let's outlaw matches b/c someone might burn a building down. Let's make it a felony to even start a fire since open fires cause so many forest fires.

If you like. What are you telling me for?

[ProudDad]

129. No "nanny state"

I'd just prefer to live in a civilized country that doesn't need the fucking things...like most of the civilized, industrialized world.

[brentspeak]

111. Why on earth would anyone possibly have a fear of guns?

They're the most harmless things in the universe. As fuzzy-wuzzy and as adorable as a puppy dog. And when's the last time someone was even shot to death...?

[ProudDad]

127. I don't fear guns

I just fear the actions of the inadaquate idiots who own them.

I abhor the dis-functional, pathological thought processes that have caused so many mutated individuals who can't seem to do without those stupid toys.

[Scout]

130. exactly ... who would be afraid of an inanimate object?

not me, anyway.

it's what the average asshole can DO with the gun, not the gun itself, duh.

[slackmaster]

108. ProudDad is a fine one to be using the term "Civilized" in any context

I Promise to kick the shit out of anyone I find "packing a gun"...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2817870#2818239

[iverglas]

109. oh, well, slackmaster is hardly the one to use any term in any context

... given as how the very concept of "context" seems to have eluded him ...

[bluerum]

115. Gun - grabbers. Snicker. Don't like your "piece" bein grabbed do ya? eom

[MisterP]

119. Tetsuo!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetsuo:_The_Iron_Man

[Telly Savalas]

50. There's a movie theater near the Target there which would make a suitable

location for those NRA vultures to hold one of their circle jerks.

[Neecy]

53. Hey...

Maybe they can gather in the Chik-fil-a parking lot near the Target - that's probably more their speed.

[krispos42]

81. Ah, masterbating to guns... wondering how long it would take

Fifty posts this time. The anti-gunners are starting to slack off. Next somebody will call them 'shiny metal penises' again. Woohoo!

[Marie26]

103. "If the victims were armed, this wouldn't have happened!"

Wrong. One of the victims was armed, and he pulled a gun & confronted the shooter - he got shot too.

[brentspeak]

54. It didn't happen in a gun-free zone, and most anyone can legally carry a handgun in Missouri

Predictably, none of that prevented the shooting deaths, whatsoever.

[slackmaster]

57. Correct Missouri's recently enacted shall-issue law did no good whatsoever

Nor did it do any harm.

[brentspeak]

112. "Recently"...as in four years ago

That's a strange use of the word "recent".

[slackmaster]

113. States started adopting shall-issue laws more than 20 years ago

Missouri is a relative newcomer, and the discussion was particularly heated.

[michreject]

58. He used a shotgun

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/29/mall.shooter/index.html

Janet Coleman said she saw "a young man with a sawed-off shotgun" in the parking lot being chased by police.

[slackmaster]

59. We must ban hacksaws immediately

:eyes:

[michreject]

60. He had to stop and reload as well

:wtf:

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

61. Good thing her gun experience came from "watching a lot of crime TV."

Must be where McCarthy and Fenistein get their knowledge of guns.

[Neecy]

65. you're a real ass...

Could you wait until the bodies are cold before you come in here with your snide comments about Feinstein? Go wax enthusiastic about your guns somewhere else...go stroke them lovingly, do whatever gets you off but have some fucking respect. There are a lot of Kansas City DU'ers who have friends and family who use that mall frequently and I'm sure we can do without your crap for a few hours.

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

66. I'm not the one who brought all this up. Merely responding to you.

You are the one who was touting a political point before "bodies were cold."

Feinstein is a valid target b/c you brought up her legislation and its sunset as the reason for this horrific crime.

[Paladin]

123. Both McCarthy And Feinstein Have Plenty Of Gun Knowledge

The kind of gun knowledge involving the spilt blood of dead family and associates. I'd be careful in trashing them; they're way out of your league.....

[canetoad]

76. Four shot dead at US mall

Source: Guardian

Four shot dead at US mall

Press Association
Monday April 30, 2007 4:03 AM

Four people were shot dead, including the gunman, after a man driving a dead woman's car shot a police officer and opened fire at a US shopping centre.

The string of violence began when police went to a home to check on an elderly woman whose relatives had not seen her for days.

The woman was found dead and her car missing, Missouri police spokesman Tony Sanders said.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6596932,00.html

[Redstone]

77. But guns, of course, are NOT the problem. He could have done that with a candlestick,

couldn't he have?

Redstone

[Critters2]

78. If everyone in that mall had been packing heat,

the outcome would have been quite different, I can tell ya!

Just in case...:sarcasm:

[canetoad]

79. Barely reported in US papers

Brit and OZ reporting it. Nothing on NYT, tiny heading on WaPo.

[iverglas]

84. the Canadian media have it

CBC in secondary list of international stories, CTV on front page (i.e. of website).
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/04/29/mall-shooter.html
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070429/mall_shooting_070429/20070429?hub=TopStories

Toronto Star on front page:
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/208621

Globe and Mail as top World story on front page:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070429.wmallshoot0429/BNStory/International/home

The NYT did have it as of 3 hours ago, now, in the google news list.


Things go differently in an incident in Canada ...

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=d5d5480d-f5ee-49ea-8923-0356b4edd67c&k=0

B.C. hostage drama ends with surrender
CanWest News Service
Published: Sunday, April 29, 2007

CHILLIWACK, B.C. — An overnight hostage drama ended peacefully Sunday when a man wanted on a Canada-wide warrant gave himself up at a local hotel.

Police said Douglas Erickson, in his late 30s, was arrested after a 14-hour standoff involving four people in a room at the Comfort Inn.

With 20 SWAT team members poised nearby in their black combat gear, Erickson gave himself up after 14 hours locked in a room with two adults and two children. Police were not able to say what relationship Erickson had with the other persons.

“He was arrested without incident,” said Chilliwack RCMP spokesman Bert Paquet. “We were able to convince him to come out. It was common sense.”

... Police initially said Erickson was armed, then said after the incident ended that no weapon was found.

... thankfully. We've had our share of mass shootings.

[Paladin]

124. Why The Hell Should It Make Headlines?

Things like this are happening virtually every fucking day in this country. It's no longer newsworthy, unless some sick overachiever really stacks the bodies up, like at VirginiaTech.....

[krispos42]

89. That's how Mr. Green bought it.

In the Conservatory. By Colonel Mustard.

[Scout1071]

110. So scary. I live nearby.

I feel for the families of the 4 victims, but I am thankful that it wasn't worse. This mall generally has quite a bit of security/police presence.

[ohio2007]

122. ANy background on the shooter released to the media yet?

We know he's not a threat to national security so lets here his life story already.

[Telly Savalas]

125. He used to be a guard at the Target there.

[ohio2007]

132. No link to a media story about this 'disgruntled' employee?

err, alleged disgruntled ex employee

[Telly Savalas]

133. Ah, google it.

I'm too lazy. I'm just reporting overheard water cooler chatter.

I'm not really sure he qualifies as a disgruntled employee since it's been months since he worked there.

[iverglas]

135. please see my post below - meant to reply to this post. n/t

[iverglas]

134. I'm just incurably curious, so I did -- and the background appears

google news results for <target employee shot>, second in results list:

http://www.meadowfreepress.com/ViewArticle.aspx?id=104056&source=2

Mon Apr 30, 9:42 PM ET

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A former Target employee who was turned down for a private security license and planned to "cause havoc" was identified Monday as the man suspected of killing two people in a crowded mall parking lot before he was shot by police.

"David Logsdon had a plan," police chief James Corwin said. "And that plan was that he had been an employee of that Target store and had been turned down for a private security license. His objective was to go to the mall and cause havoc."

... Logsdon‘s sister, Kathryn Cagg, said he was mentally ill and an alcoholic. She said the family was concerned he would commit suicide in October 2005 and had taken him for treatment, but he was released from the treatment after six hours.

Well, at least he didn't get the private security licence. Wonder how he got the firearm.