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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:19 AM
Original message
Shooting at Virginia Tech, Gunman at Large
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 09:52 AM by Skinner
Source: WSLS

Statement on the VT.edu Web site:

" BLACKSBURG, Va., April 16, 2007 -- A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows

A shooting incident occurred at West Ambler Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.

The university community is urged to be cautious. If you observe anything suspicious or have information on the case, please contact Virginia Tech Police at 231-6411"

Read more: http://www.wsls.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSLS/MGA...



BLACKSBURG, Va. - A shooting at a Virginia Tech dorm Monday left one person dead and one wounded, a state government official with knowledge of the case told The Associated Press.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virgini...
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. If I see anything here in Wisconsin I'll be sure to call. But you in Blacksburg take care,
be safe!



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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. This will be sure to muscle out any Gonzo news. nt
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
314. I just heard that the Gonzales hearings are going to be postponed, after this.
I'm sure that you're not surprised... :-(
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #314
315. I just read it myself. You know, whenever something really bad
like this happens or really bad weather or something else really bad that's not politically related, I always wonder if the the Hand of Bad Men are at work.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #315
375. I wondered this, too, though it makes no sense in this case,
since this appears to have been the work of a single troubled young man. But there have been so many instances of distraction, engineered events meant to frighten the American public into accepting The Patriot Act, or manipulating the media, by this illegal and brazenly dishonest administration that we have every reason to wonder and to be very suspicious. :-(
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #375
377. But BlackOps can create a troubled young man with chemicals.
I thought I heard something about the kid not being identifiable because he didn't have a face and his fingerprints didn't match anything on record. And then, voila, he was a student of the school. Of course, I was only half listening to the tv, so I may have this all wrong.
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Chico Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. holy crap
I'm VT alum and that sounds scary as hell.
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laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. hey, Chico Man -
dh is a VT alum too. this IS scary. nice to see another fellow hokie here - too bad under these circumstances.
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lizerdbits Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #29
91. Me too
I lived in West AJ for a year too.
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Chico Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #91
241. I've been in all of those buildings..
I get such a creepy feeling thinking back to those times now.. how AWFUL
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #241
355. Me three.
I lived in spittin' distance of A-J, visited there, and went to engineering classes in Norris. Jesus.
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. There has been a disproportionate number of disasters on this campus recently.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Really?
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. there was a shooting there last August
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Didn't involve students, faculty, or staff though
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671 /
"In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriffs deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus. "
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. good point, but I'm sure it was terrifying
the thing I can't get out my mind is this is how people feel in Iraq everyday. :(
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
376. I agree with you and
my SO made a similar point. When this terrible tragedy was taking place and students were being told to remain in their rooms, there was one young female student who was outside, talking to the local news reporter on the scene. She was obviously one of the many foreign students there and my SO speculated aloud that if her hometown was Baghdad, this terrifying day would be just routine to her... ;(
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. In my previous years, there were no shootings or bomb threats here.
There have been tow of each in this academic year, with the frenzied closings and convergence of law enforcement that they bring.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. My next-door neighbors' daughter is a student at VT.
They were apoplectic during that manhunt on the VT campus last year.

:scared:
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. Damn I know a lot of families with kids there...
very sad and tragic.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. Good god -- again???
I hope everyone's okay.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
63. I thought they just had one of these there recently!
How weird!
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. SECOND SHOOTING AT NORRIS HALL, MULTIPLE VICTIMS
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. good god
:cry:
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Those poor kids. They must be terrified.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. Several dead in VA campus shooting
Several dead in VA campus shooting



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BLACKSBURG, Va. (April 16, 2007)
Virginia Tech officials are reporting multiple casuatlies after two shootings at the the Blacksburg, VA., campus.


School officials say one shooting happened in the West Ambler Johnston residence hall and another at Norris Hall. The shooter is now in custody but police are searching for any other possible suspects. Seven or eight people may have been shot.


http://www.disasternews.net/news/news.php?articleid=350...
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. My god.
:(
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. hopefully this is an error
and it's just injuries.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. News is reporting that they are searching...
for a second shooter.

It will take them a while to figure out who's involved and what's happened.

For the students--just three weeks before semester ends--it's got to be nerve-wracking. :(
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. they have had some bomb threats there recently as well
The shootings come three days after a bomb threat Friday forced the cancellation of classes in three buildings, WDBJ in Roanoke reported. Also, the 100,000-square-foot Torgersen Hall was evacuated April 2 after police received a written bomb threat, The Roanoke Times reported.

http://us.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.ht...
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Damn.
I feel terrible for those kids. :(
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. so do I
I'm sure their parents are terrified as well.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. They ARE saying " a number of shootings" on MSNBC.
Police are about to execute a planned evacuation from campus. News conference coming up.

If I were a parent, I'd be beside myself right now. Can't imagine what the families are going through. I think my kid would come home for the rest of the semester.

:(
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. Why do these idiots with guns head for SCHOOLS.
:(
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. It's the source of their stress, and it's a gun-free zone.
It happens at work-places too.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. I don't know why I'm surprised, really. Our mental health system
is a complete sham. But as someone who used to live and work at a university, this is so upsetting, saddening.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. I don't know about VT, but most universities damn near ignore mental health for students...
especially "chronic" conditions like bipolar. Someone I love was told "maybe college isn't the best thing for you" by a health center counselor! She's about to graduate with her M.S. this year.
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. VT has an on-campus counseling center, and makes academic affordances.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. good.
thanks for the info
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. I had trouble with anxiety at Berkeley and our MH center was great.
In fact, I got better health care there than before or since. But, who knows what it's like now -- that was 12 years ago.

In general, most public clinics in CA should be shut down because they are unsafe. They throw pills at people and don't monitor them adequately. There are some very dedicated people out there but they aren't the sleepwalking majority. :(
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. Most universities have PhD psychologists and psychiatrists on staff.
Very accessible for students AND faculty. The students I've referred have found more immediate and thorough help than they would have in any other setting.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. And they're just sharper. I know plenty of PhDs in the community
that should really be doing something else and immediately. I don't remember having that experience at Cal.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
51. Public clinics here seem geared toward sucking Medicaid from the non-functional and drug-addicted
Their "sliding scale" is ridiculous-- if you make hardly any money at all, their services run around $300 a month. So basically, if you're trying to get rehabilitated enough to get back on your feet and work, you're screwed.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Exactly. Those mofos in Los Angeles nearly killed Doug.
I hate to think what would have happened to him if he'd gone there solo. They were overdosing him on the wrong meds, for one thing. The last time he flipped and I called the doctor, she said, "I can't keep doing this with you" as if it was MY doing. It was just unreal.

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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. The system as it is now just creates bitterness, rage, and drugged out zombies
And when stuff like this at VT happens, no-one seems to "get" that it's a symptom of a MASSIVE failure of what ought to be a major part of our health care system.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #58
113. When I finally did, my blood ran cold. NAMI says about 6%
of the population and one in five families. :(
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #51
57. On many campuses, Medicaid usually isn't accepted at MH clinics.
The universities here will provide free counseling if the student has little to no income. After Katrina, counseling was free to everyone, regardless of income.

But, yeah, I agree with you in general that poor patients don't receive quality MH care.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #57
66. No I was talking about public clinics-- state-run or state affiliated
We have a supposedly "good" counseling department on my university's campus, but they are geared ONLY toward short-term, accute cases. They don't do management of "chronic" disorders-- they refer patients to the state-funded public clinic in town for that.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #57
169. MH care in any income bracket is not great in this joint.
We have so much great tech and virtually no system of delivery, and that's true whether you are a client at a public clinic or whether you're paying a private clinican a brazillion dollars.
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elcondor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
277. Someone I love was told that too, piedmont
I'm sure that there are some universities who have good mental health programs, but it does not seem to be the norm ...

God damn it ... this is absolutely heartbreaking. When will things really change in this country? Will this ever stop? ;(
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. Here's the VT Policy
The universitys employees, students, and volunteers, or any visitor or other third party attending a sporting,
entertainment, or educational event, or visiting an academic or administrative office building or residence hall, are
further prohibited from carrying, maintaining, or storing a firearm or weapon on any university facility, even if the
owner has a valid permit, when it is not required by the individuals job, or in accordance with the relevant
University Student Life Policies.
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Just another reason why we need
to regulate, register, ALL guns, and to even ban some through the AWB. Of course the gungeon people will say this is one isolated incident among way too many...
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. AWB does not exist.
VT already has a very strict anti-firearms policy that, apparently, did not work.

"The universitys employees, students, and volunteers, or any visitor or other third party attending a sporting,
entertainment, or educational event, or visiting an academic or administrative office building or residence hall, are
further prohibited from carrying, maintaining, or storing a firearm or weapon on any university facility, even if the
owner has a valid permit, when it is not required by the individuals job, or in accordance with the relevant
University Student Life Policies."
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. How would it?
In order to actually take guns from people, they would have to search every person and vehicle entering the campus, which would mean turning at least 10 streets into armed checkpoints.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
163. How much ya wanna bet
the particular gun in this particular incident WAS REGISTERED.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
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Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
220. They already banned guns at VT.
Obviously this strategy worked.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
242. `
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
272. Not in my lifetime.
"to regulate, register, ALL guns, and to even ban some through the AWB".

As long as I'm a registered voter, I will continue to oppose any more gun control laws at the Federal, state and local level, and I'll continue to support new laws that are favorable to law abiding gun owners.

And I say this as a long time NRA and Gun Owners Action League (GOAL), member.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
37. A school provides a plethora of unarmed potential victims
Guns generally aren't allowed on school campuses.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #37
49. But, don't most shootings happen between people who know
each other or have I watched too many episodes of Dragnet?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. That may be the case, but a school provides a "safe" setting for violence
Because any defensive response has to come in from the outside.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. So, the safe environment is actually an invitation.
I'd never thought of it that way. :(
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
270. How much more of a tragedy if every student on campus had a gun?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #270
284. Straw Man argument
Or a false dilemma, depending on how you look at it.

My point is that the VT blanket campus ban on firearms did no good whatsoever.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #284
286. It would be a straw man argument for your position as well
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slampoet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
115. because these idiots with guns go to school.?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. Sure but they also go to a host of other public places.
:(
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Chico Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
243. Lots of hunters at Virginia Tech
Many of my teammates there would hunt in the mornings before practice. Hey, guns are plentiful in the area, that's for sure. Take a stop at many roadside diners along interstate 81, and guns are prominently displayed on the way to the john.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #243
251. But I'll bet not one of them has a hunting rifle stored on campus
:argh:
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Chico Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #251
266. Most were living off campus at the time
I'm not sure where they would be stored.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #243
269. Where I live, you can go your whole life without seeing one except
on a cop. The only time I've seen guns and rifles and a hunting lodge was on a visit to MO.

Are your people okay, Chico Man?
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Doctor Venmkan Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
317. Evil, yes. Idiots, no - THEY KNOW THE PEOPLE THERE CAN'T DEFEND THEMSELVES!
Simple, really.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #317
342. It looks like it.
:(
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. Campus e-mail has crashed.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 10:26 AM by ContraBass Black
It was the primary notification system.
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. My sister lived in that dorm when she went there. Scary stuff.
My prayers and thoughts go out to those kids.
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Chico Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
268. That dorm is normally claustrophobic to begin with
Must have been hell on earth
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
22. Springtime seems to bring these out.
It's probably due to seasonal-induced mania. Summer is the main season for that, but then school isn't in session.
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
214. Pressure builds up for college kids around this time..
Not that this justifies what he has done by any means....

Just talking to my daughter in college the other night...projects due in 3 different classes, finals in every class, not a whole lot of sleep on her agenda for the next few weeks.
Obviously too early to speculate in this case, but this is also the time of year that reality kicks in if a kid is failing classes.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
23. One reported dead, several injured in Virginia Tech shootings
One reported dead, several injured in Virginia Tech shootings
POSTED: 11:23 a.m. EDT, April 16, 2007
Story Highlights NEW: University reports two shootings; AP reports at least 7-8 total casualties
University reporting that a suspected shooter is in custody
AP: 1 dead, 1 wounded in first reported shooting on Virginia Tech campus
Student describes situation as "mayhem"; says 2 students jumped from window

Adjust font size:
(CNN) -- One person was killed and several were wounded in two shootings on the Virginia Tech university campus in Blacksburg on Monday, The Associated Press and the university reported.

The AP reported that one person was killed and one wounded in a shooting at a dormitory. Another shooting at Norris Hall, an engineering building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported.

There were seven or eight total casualties in the two incidents, AP reported.

"Police have one shooter in custody, and as part of routine police procedure they continue to search for a second shooter," the university said in a written statement.

The first reported shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on campus, is located near the drill field and stadium.

more:
http://us.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.ht...
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
38. OMG
I know several students there.

My heart stopped beating for a min. when I first read "Virginia Campus" then learned it was Va Tech.
My son is a 3rd year at UVa, but he has friends at Tech.

Oh, the worry!

Too many crazy people.

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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
41. At one hospital...one critical, three stable.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 10:48 AM by Maddy McCall
One dead. :(

"Other victims sent to other hospitals."
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Including or excluding the one dead on the scene?
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
42. I hate to think the worst, but
RW Wackadoo going after the liberal elite? I hope not.
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. ?
This is a majority conservative campus.
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. Lived in Va all my life.
Its not totally conservative. Besides, that wackadoos consider everyone not as whacky as themselves to be liberal.

Anyway it was just a thought.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Most likely a disgruntled fired employee or a failed student
:argh:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
166. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #166
178. You can't seriously think this is a Cheney/Rove distraction
can you?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #178
207. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #207
212. No what's sad is that you would ever believe that
:eyes:
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #207
229. Just because a theory is popular doesn't mean it's not completely asinine.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 01:16 PM by Fenris
And the word you're looking for it "capital." "Political capitol" would be a location where a government is based.
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BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #178
352. if it was; nobody would ever find out
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 07:31 PM by BrokenBeyondRepair
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #166
205. That kind of thinking is only slightly less deranged than the gunman's
It's the language of cultists, and it does progressives no good, nor the country any good either.

Sociopathic gunmen are not driven by politics, and not brainwashed into murder by Bushco. If you want to break free of political cult thinking and understand the actual reasons why sociopaths hurt and kill, here's a great place to start.

The Evil We Do: The Psychoanaysis of Destructive People, by Carl Goldberg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1573928399/002-2720660...

Meanwhile, I have said a prayer for the people who were shot...and I don't even go to church.

Peace.
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slj0101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #166
221. Wow. That's the smartest thing I've read all day.
Today's Opposite Day.

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
54. Hospital says 17 students are being treated for injuries
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 11:09 AM by maddezmom
BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) -- A spokeswoman at a Blacksburg hospital says that 17 Virginia Tech students are being treated for gunshot wounds after two shootings on campus.

Spokeswoman Suzanne Barnette at Montgomery Regional Hospital did not have details of the injuries.

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=6375651&nav=S6a...
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coffeenap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. OMG--17!
:cry:
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. the spokesperson for the hospital also just said other hospitals
have been alerted.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #54
60. 17 victims?
Oh my God. How scary it must be for the students right now. Have they caught the gunman yet?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
56. These shootings are a public health crisis!
When is this country going to wake the hell up and do something about it?
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
61. 20 FATALITIES
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Just saw that....Holy crap
:(
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #61
65. is that seperate from the 17 that are in hospital?
:cry:
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #61
67. Surely that's not correct?
God, I hope not.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. OMG
Is there a link? Was that confirmed by an official?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #61
71. WTF???? Are you SURE? 20 DEAD?
Jesus Christ.

:cry:
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. I'm not seeing that anywhere on the web
But then again, I'm not watching a live feed. CNN and MSNBC are still reporting 1 dead, 17 injured.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. That's what I'm seeing, too -- 17 casualties, one dead
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #74
82. All of the news Web sites are reporting that only 1 is dead.
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #61
72. I just saw that on CNN. They said gunman is dead. 20 fatalities.
Please let them be wrong.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. Reported on MSNBC, too. 20 dead, 28 being treated for injuries.
:(
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
69. Just reported by a student who was shot: Shooter entered classroom, started firing.
Said shooter was an Asian man in his 20s.

Sounds like this is going to be much worse than first reported. More students hurt or killed.
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laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
70. shooter is dead -
per CNN.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #70
73. Have they said if they think that it's only one shooter?
There was shooting in a classroom and in a dorm.

This is terrible.
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laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. one shooter as of what is known right now. n/t
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
75. 20 are dead
Unbelievable!!
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #75
80. That sounds like too high a proportion of fatalities
Usually with these shhotings there are more injuries than fatalities.
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. 20 dead, 28 injured
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #83
245. Damn. I was certainly hoping it was wrong.
Apparently he was shooting at point-blank range.
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Penndems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #80
84. Blacksburg police chief on CNN now
Says there are at least twenty fatalities.
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #80
85. It's on local TV
Just said 20 dead and 28 injured
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
79. 20 or more people being treated for injuries
Some are critical
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
81. VT Alum
I attended VA Tech 1985-1990. A conservative place, for sure, but I don't recall any real nut jobs. Of course, this was before the football team was good and the school got lots of press...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #81
187. I was there in early 80s
West Ambler Johnson Hall was my dormitory... This is so incredible. Yes, a very large university, but it always had a sort of isolated, even sleepy feel to it, compared to most large urban universities.

I am devastated. My prayers and hopes for all affected.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
86. 22 according to VA NBC news. nt
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
87. 22 dead, 28 injured.
A most grimly incrementing count.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Have they caught the gunman?
Was there one shooter, or more? Is this rampage over?
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. Yes
They don't know if he killed himself or was shot by police.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #88
90. I just watched the news conference and I'm still confused
The shooter is dead, but they said they aren't sure if the shootings are connected. :shrug:
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #90
96. They have two locations, hours apart, and one shooter.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #96
105. but the police officer said he wasn't sure they were connected
I must be being dense, but would seem to me they would be connected in someway if there was only one shooter.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #96
181. I bet it was planned that way
One shooting to draw the cop away from where the massacre was taking place. Force everybody to lock down in classes. The shooter might have shot out the lock on a classroom door and opened up.

Goddamnit!
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electricmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
92. Live news video feed
http://www.wdbj7.com /

Look for the Top Videos section.

I have friends that go to Tech, I'm about 30 minutes away from there.
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #92
340. My heart and positive vibes go out to your friends, their families & you.
I truly hope they all are safe and you soon from them.

This whole thing has me stunned and my heart aching for everyone involved. :(
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
93. 20 fatalities!
:cry:
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
94. Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 11:40 AM by Scurrilous
<snip>

"A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

The university reported shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building.

One student was killed in a dorm and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virgini...
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WestHoustonDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
95. Just saw this. My niece goes to Virginia Tech, and is ok n/t
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #95
99. That's good news, WHD.
I hope that she weathers this ok. :hug:
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #95
100. Glad to hear she's physically ok.
I simply can't imagine what she's going through emotionally.
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WestHoustonDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #100
226. I know. They went through this last year too and she had
to lock herself in her dorm room for several hours. She's got a pretty cool head on her shoulders. It's my sister (her mom) that tends to panic.
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Clyde39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
97. 22 fatalities now.....this is the worst school shooting in recent history
The worst shooting at a high school or college in recent history.....nothing compares.
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Clyde39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #97
101. 22 dead included shooter
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #97
103. And it's still only half an average morning's death toll in Baghdad.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 11:54 AM by GliderGuider
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
98. 1st 911 call was at 7:15 AM concerning multiple shootings. Classes not cancelled at that time. nt
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #98
108. Well, how would the administration know of this right away and be able to act that fast?
Do *any* schools have any type of "panic button" in every dorm room or classroom? If they did, could you imagine the false alarms that would go off negating any long-term benefit?

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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #108
114. Phone, IM, email, call the local news. Just like a damn snow cancellation. nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:18 PM
Original message
We used to get fake bomb threats every semester during midterms.
We evacuated pretty fast. There's generally someone in each building tasked with safety. But you're right because every time that alarm went off, most of us grumbled and dragged our feet. :(

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Clyde39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
102. One person dead at dormitory
All the others at Norris Hall (engineering)
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
104. This doesn't happen in Europe. There's something wrong with THIS country! nt
:cry:
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. It happens in Baghdad. Every f#cking day. Day after day after day after day.
It hurts more when they're your own, doesn't it?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. Yes and it happens in Somalia
Colombuia, Darfur, Sao Paluo the list can go on indefinitely. This happens in ever ghetto, in ever poor area on a daily and continual basis. When I lived in New Orleans a few years back at least 2-3 people were dying daily. Sometimes as many as a dozen.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THIS IS NOT A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. Of course it hurts more when they're your own.
It's human nature. However, just because things are much worse in Baghdad doesn't mean that what happened in Virginia today isn't horrific. A lot more people died in the tsunami than in Katrina, but dead is dead.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #107
217. Yes, it hurts more when they are your own, whatever "your own" means
All lives are equal, but one's own pain for a loss depends on more than just the value of that life, but on the closeness and a bunch of other things. And don't sit in judgement right now, you are not God, you don't get to decide what is proper to mourn and what isn't.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #107
228. Why are you GLOATING over dead students?????
You sound awfully smug and superior.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #228
248. I'm not.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 02:05 PM by GliderGuider
A couple of weeks ago I was listening to CBC radio. They were interviewing a Canadian soldier who had been wounded during an attack on a Canadian FOB near Kandahar. One of his fellow troopers had been killed in the attack, and the soldier being interviewed was distraught about that. You could hear him choking up with anguish. The interviewer said, "I understand the RPG knocked you out. What did you do when you came to?" The soldier replied, "I pulled myself back to my machine gun and started knocking them down." The interviewer asked, "How many did you kill?" His completely matter-of-fact response was, "Oh, about 21." I thought long and hard about the kind of disconnect it takes to grieve so much more for one trooper of an occupying army just because he's one of your own, than for 21 people you just killed who were trying to defend their own country.

I know it's a bit different because soldiers are trained to respond that way, but it drove home for me the terrible inequities involved in grieving for "us" versus grieving for "them". That burst of outrage and anger came back this morning, and caused me phrase things badly. I was not gloating. I was angry.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #107
282. come on it's a tragedy in any country nt
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #104
118. It happened a couple of times in Germany
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 12:16 PM by RamboLiberal
Very recent history! 18 in 2002. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1952869.stm

11 Wounded 2006. http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,449492,00.ht...

History of school shootings including Europe. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1953425.stm

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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #104
119. Unfortunately it does.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 12:13 PM by MilesColtrane
Just happens more often here.


Germany, April 2002: The Erfurt massacre was a school shooting that occurred at the Johann Gutenberg Gymnasium in Erfurt, Germany. Seventeen people were killed before the perpetrator committed suicide, including 14 teachers, 2 students, and 1 police officer.

Germany, March 2000: A 16-year-old pupil at a private boarding school in the Bavarian town of Branneburg, shot a 57-year-old teacher, who later died from injuries.

The teenager - who also shot himself - was facing expulsion from school after failing a cannabis test.

Germany, February 2002: A former pupil killed his headmaster and set off pipe bombs in the technical school he had recently been expelled from in Freising near Munich.

The man also shot dead his boss and a foreman at the company he worked for before turning the gun on himself. Another teacher was shot in the face, but survived.

Scotland, March 1996: Gun enthusiast Thomas Hamilton shoots 16 children and their teacher dead at their primary school in Dunblane, Scotland before killing himself.


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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #104
120. Actually it does.
Although, it does seem to happen more here than it does in other countries. Then again, maybe it's just more widely reported here. I can't say for sure though. However, I do know that I've hear a few cases of similar incidents in various countries around Europe.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #104
190. It does happen elsewhere
You would need to put together enough european countries, taking into consideration the populations to really get a feel for how much more these incidents happen here as opposed to elsewhere.

Comparing the US to say Germany, england or france wouldn't work because the sizes are so different.
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carrowsboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
106. Conservative douchebags already worried this will bring gun control laws
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 11:58 AM by carrowsboy
http://www.lucianne.com/threads22.asp?artnum=334816

Reply 3 - Posted by: Mr. Know-It-All, 4/16/2007 12:39:50 PM

There will be immediate calls for more gun control, while talk of immigrant control will be dissed as "racial profiling", even if the shooter turns our to be a muzzie jihadist.


Reply 5 - Posted by: GOPJihad, 4/16/2007 12:41:12 PM

What a horror!

Surely a "Gun Free School Zone" as such animals don't pull such stunts where they know their victims may actually shoot back!

The only school shootings that have been stopped in this country have been by armed students, faculty, or parents!


Reply 7 - Posted by: Ripper1, 4/16/2007 12:43:52 PM

Countdown to see how long before Bush gets blamed. 1. ... 2.....3....


Reply 13 - Posted by: rawmuse, 4/16/2007 12:48:02 PM

I agree that the very thing out of the mouths of the MSM and, sadly, even some posters here, will be a call for gun confiscation. Never mind that one armed good guy could have brought this entire affair to a conclusion before 22 people were murdered like defenseless rabbits. Prayers for the families of the dead and wounded. Prayers for all of us as a nation.

Reply 14 - Posted by: jhp, 4/16/2007 12:48:15 PM

A disarmed society is a society in danger.


Reply 16 - Posted by: killerbee, 4/16/2007 12:52:52 PM

Report I just read said his name was William Morva.

This is horrifying. I have family that went to that school and a nephew about to leave for college this fall.

Sickening. I'm glad he was caught alive though so he can be questioned before his execution.

This just ruins my day.


Reply 17 - Posted by: Rubberneck, 4/16/2007 12:52:54 PM

This will give 'em something to discuss at the NRA national meetings, which begin today.

I bet Chuckie Schumer is salivating; Sarah Brady is probably picking out Hallmark cards. Ted the Swimmer will call a press conference.


Reply 20 - Posted by: Hazymac, 4/16/2007 12:55:43 PM

This is less an argument for gun control than an argument that responsible, law abiding adults ought to carry. One properly aimed bullet could have saved over a dozen lives. Fox News is showing a picture of a chunky oriental man with a cop restraining him. The perp's head is raised, so he was definitely alive when that picture was taken.

Don't think that our Islamist enemies haven't noticed. One or several gunmen (like, for instance, those bank robbers in North Hollywood, 1997) with enough firepower, body armor, and an expectation of the 72 virginal, bashful, dark-eyed houris could kill hundreds if they were to strike in a place full of people. The only thing that could thwart them is a unexpected armed citizen. Instead, we'll get more of Sarah Brady's nonsense.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #106
227. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #227
346. Imagine that when 30+ are murdered with guns people might want to look at guns?
What DOUCHEBAGS!!!!

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Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #346
353. Might want to look at boxcutters and long-haul airplanes too.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 07:40 PM by Show_Me _The_Truth
If you want to take into account 3000 people killed.

Or Fertilizer for that matter, or pool chlorine, or Ammonia for industrial refrigerators etc ad nauseum.

Obviously the ban on guns on the VT campus worked just as planned.
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Rabbit of Caerbannog Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
111. freepers already howling "if only the victims were armed:
To: lionheart 247365

Columbine, Lubys restaurant and the Long Island Railway shootings come to mind here.

In those and similar other events, the only one ON THE SCENE with a firearm was the killer. One armed citizen could have stopped this long before 20 + were murdered.

And its too bad the shooter is tits up: He might have copped to being motivated by some radical ahhh religious/political philosophy if you get my drift.

If there the authorities DO find some er religious/political motivation, wonder how long it will take for us to learn that?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818217/posts
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #111
202. Difference between our gun nuts and their gun nuts
Note that the shooter is already a Muslim terrorist who apparently had time to come over here because the 'Dims' want to cut-and-run in the 'Central Front of the Global War on Terror'. Or sumptin'.

To out gun nuts, it too much stress with too little treatment, all thanks to the Repubs.
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
112. This is horrific.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sorry, no snark, comparing to deaths elsewhere, worrying about political ramifications, etc., for me. At least not in these first 24 hours.

For now,

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Someone light a candle.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #112
121. Hug somebody.
:hug:
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #112
275. yes, yes indeed
I agree with you.

I'm thinking about all the people I know at Tech, including faculty, that I don't yet know are safe.

I've been in tears.

My son is on another Virginia university campus; this could have happened there.

Yes, hug someone and tell your loved ones you love them every day, every single day.



If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. - John Dunne


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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
117. What a horror. My god, I feel for the victims and their families. n/t
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
122. Chief: At Least 20 Dead in University Shooting
Source: CNN

(CNN) -- The Virginia Tech Police Chief said at least 20 people were killed in twin shootings on the Blacksburg campus Monday morning.

"Some victims were shot in a classroom," Chief Wendell Flinchum said, adding that the gunman was dead.

President Charles Steger called the shootings "a tragedy of monumental proportions."

A hospital spokeswoman told The Associated Press that 17 Virginia Tech students were being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries. Sharon Honaker at the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center told CNN that four patients had been transported there, one in critical condition.





Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.h...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. Don't suppose they'll rethink their gun laws now.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. Guns aren't allowed on campus, so they have no gun laws to rethink
For the record, I am firmly pro gun control and anti-handgun, but I think right now is a time for respecting the dead and injured.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #123
125. here we go...
:popcorn:

Maybe there should be a law against shooting people. There already is? How's that working?
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #125
136. He's dead...I guess that's justice?...
not for the families probably. We need to wait and see how and why this person had the gun and what type it was before we pass judgement IMO. FWIW, Virginia has some of the most lax gun laws in the state. Like I said, we need to wait and see.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #125
256. Mind if I join you?
:popcorn:
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #123
127. Probably not, but I bet they install metal detectors in all the buildings.
One freak goes on a shooting spree and everyone else pays by losing their freedom. Happens every time.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #123
138. I am guessing this is your way of expressing shock and sympathy?
Tell me I am right, please or I will think bad things about you.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #123
146. Don't worry you'll have plenty of chances now to promote your political agenda
Heaven forbid we should learn the facts about what happened here.

:grr:
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #123
280. Let's not capitalize on their death and suffering just yet OK?
I'm going to keep my TV off for a while. Unfortunately curiousity got the best of this cat and I logged on to DU.

Guns are banned on the campus.
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lizerdbits Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
126. I lived in West AJ in 93-94.
7th floor, great view especially in the fall. Wow. This is horrible. I guess we'll have to wait to hear motives.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
128. WTF happens to people in the Spring?
Columbine 4/20, now this...unfreakingbelievable.
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puffthemagicdragon Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #128
134. suicide rate is highest in spring
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 11:51 AM by puffthemagicdragon
when I was in college in a psych class we learned that most suicides occur in the spring rather than the commonly thought time of winter or holidays...it is because the earth is springing with new flowers and nice weather and this time is when those that are depressed feel the darkest...because they are not springing.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #134
196. Yep. Makes sense.
That's what "spring cleaning" is for...
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #128
135. Goes back 14 years this week (Branch Davidian compound raid in Waco, TX)
and the Ok. City bombing a couple years later.

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senaca Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #135
254. That was my first thought too.
Columbine, Waco, Oklahoma City etc. The chilling play "God's Country" really evoked the mindset of this particular subculture; like neo nazi. I hope this isn't right and people who follow these kind of groups are on the wane. Whether it is or not, I still don't get the type of mindset of someone taking so many lives.
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tnlurker Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
129. This will be the distraction
To the gonzo hearings tomorrow. I am not saying that it was planned that way. It just will be.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #129
154. 22 dead. 28 wounded.
That's a huge number of affected families and friends. And we don't know why and we don't know how and we are going to have to know.

Then there are the students and faculty who didn't see any of it, but will still be in shock. Their families and friends are affected, too.

Every college in the country is going to have to prove to parents its dorms are safe.

So, yeah.
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
130. "Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus"
BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.

<more>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virgini...

*

A tie with the July, '84 San Ysidro McDonalds event.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #130
142. MSNBC has toll at 22 now.
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #142
153. Ah. So he beat the San Ysidro guy but fell short of the Luby's guy.
The Luby's guy (in Killeen, TX) killed 24.

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cssmall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
131. May all their families have peace and the courage to face this horrible thing.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
132. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #132
137. He's being a d*ck, but he's right
When we hear 30 killed in suicide bombing in Iraq (and it seems just like numbers), this is what it is live for the Iraqis.

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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #132
140. WTH?
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 12:51 PM by Kajsa
"I don't see that you have that much to weep about."

--unbelievable!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #132
141. Oh c'mon.
Don't trivalize this.

Tens of thousands of people die from the common cold on a daily basis. That doesn't mean we can reference that in an attempt to trivialize death.
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puffthemagicdragon Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #132
143. tasteless n/t
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #132
144. Actually, about 500 are killed every day in Iraq.
It just doesn't get widely reported.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #144
147. Yeah and 20 million people die a year due to preventable diseases.
Quite a few million of those are just from the common fucking cold.

That doesn't make this assholes statement any more right.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #147
148. Just a bunch of numbers, eh?
Are American college students more important than Iraqis?
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #148
149. Are they less important?
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 12:07 PM by SayWhatYo
and not worth mention?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #148
151. I'd say 500 people killed needlessly by violence...
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 12:10 PM by Bornaginhooligan
should be a more important news story than 22 people killed needlessly by violence.

On edit: meant to be reply to post #27.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #151
165. Yeah right. Would you then say we spend our news...
...covering 24/7 dying children in Ethopia? Murderous cabals in Colomubia? How about we go into China and cover all the reports of daily executions there. Or report on how North Korea disappears people regularly?

I highly doubt you'd support the news covering the most devestating environments in the world. You wouldn't want to be seeing African children on TV all day long who are dying from disease and war on a basis that dwarfs Iraq by several magnitudes.

They're all tragedies.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #165
168. Yes.
Wouldn't you?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #168
171. That would mean that it is my duty to do something about those tragedies.
Local tragedies should take precedence. I can't do anything about Ethopia, but I can help Katrina victims. Get it?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #171
175. You do things to help Katrina victims?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #175
180. Yes I did.
I was a first responder with Red Cross. Spent weeks there. Then we went back and helped do cleanup.

Didn't you? Or did you just watch the TV and get all giddy about the tragedy? Fucking fucked up if you ask me.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #180
183. And you can't go to Ethiopia and do the same thing?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #183
186. No, I cannot. I don't have the money to do such things.
And no matter how much money you throw at the problem it's never ever ever enough.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #151
182. So we cannot be outraged and saddened at both? nt
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #182
200. Where are you getting that idea?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #148
155. No. They are not less important either. We can mourn them all.
It isn't necessary to play the game of whose death is more important.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #148
159. Are Ethopian children less important than Iraqi's?
How about Somalians who are killed on a regular basis?

Drivers on the worlds roads (40k fatalities in the USA alone)?

These are ALL terrible tragedies. And in most cases we have NO CONTROL over them. This includes your beloved Iraq which you use to score some sick twisted point to trivialize deaths.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #159
167. MY beloved Iraq?
We have control over what's going on in Iraq. We certainly have more control there, than an isolated incident involving a psychotic, suicidal gunman.

Secondly, I'm not trivializing deaths. And I'm certainly not trying to justify voyeurism and media exploitation.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:27 PM
Original message
No you don't. You have no control whatsoever.
None. The protests against Iraq were the biggest in American history. No effect. Do not delude yourself about the power this administration has over this.

BTW, we leave Iraq right now the civil war still goes on.

Does that then mean that we should watch their civil war from afar and then talk about doing something about it?

Oh wait, that's what the surge is trying to do.

Kind of contridictary if you ask me, and it seems very malicious to want to see these tragedies and do nothing about them.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
177. Well, we can't exactly do anything about this shooting, can we?
"Oh wait, that's what the surge is trying to do."

LOL
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #177
184. Ahh, I can see discussing things with you is pretty much impossible.
Of course we can. We can talk to local school officials if we have children about putting up metal detectors (unfortunately) and hiring guards and so on and so forth. And that is precisely what is going to come of this.

BTW, yes that is what the surge is trying to do.

Do you think we should interfere in foreign civil wars or other similar issues? If not why do you insist on wanting to see them on your TV?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #132
145. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #145
152. Maybe his point was that it may feel like this in Iraq
Maybe Iraqis feel like this when they hear about suicide bombings?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #152
158. BS. "I don't see that you have that much to weep about"
That's just callous. Downright callous and completely uncalled for.

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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #158
174. I didn't see that part. He's half right, and he's completely wrong
Lots to mourn about for everyone.
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #152
164. That point was valid...
But I do not think is what is upsetting some people. It was the last part of his comment in which he pretty much said these kids didn't matter. Maybe he didn't mean it like that, maybe he did, but that is how it came across as sounding.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #164
188. I get a bit abrupt sometimes
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 12:39 PM by GliderGuider
Of course the deaths of these kids as individuals matters. The loss of every individual's life is important to those close to them. Most of the DU members did not know any of the victims as individuals, though. Most of us will only feel a vague nationality-kinship connection with them (and perhaps I feel less than that). My point was that in proportional terms Iraq suffers far worse losses from violence every day. The shock and horror being expressed here perhaps misses an element of proportionality due to the peculiar limitations of empathy when different national identities are involved.

In addition, the nature of the events is totally different. These deaths are the result of one deranged act, and so speak to the role of chance in the lives of Americans. Those deaths were started by American occupation and are maintained by American intransigence - as a result they speak to the role of American evil in the world.

By all means grieve for them as individuals, but save a tear or two for the deaths others - people who are no more strangers to you than these kids, but whose deaths should perhaps weigh your conscience even more.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #188
209. Thanks, but I've plenty of tears and sorrow to go around...
"but save a tear or two for the deaths others..."

Thanks, but I've plenty of tears and sorrow to go around. Weeping for the victims of this shooting does not, cannot and will not reduce my sympathy for the dead and wounded in Iraq. Or Somalia. Or Darfur. Or a hundred other places.

I've an infinite capacity to love and an infinite capacity to feel sorrow, and I need little coaching on who should or should not receive my sympathies and to what degree.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #209
211. I understand. I apologized below for my hurtful comment, and I'll repeat it here.
All I can say is it seems this thing threw me for a loop too. I got angry, and the target I picked was badly mis-chosen. I'm sorry I said what I did.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #211
213. You should post your apology in GD
n/t
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #213
218. Why? I didn't post anything on this topic over there.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 01:23 PM by GliderGuider
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #218
246. Because your "well meaning" comments are the subject of at least 2 threads there
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #246
252. Hmm. Looks like that thread is about others who had a similar reaction.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 01:58 PM by GliderGuider
It's something to think about.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #252
263. Yes, it makes it all OK
n/t
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #263
264. I'll apologize for my own words, not someone else's.
My main point about the comparison to Baghdad stands. My apology was for the thoughtlessly nasty comments I used to emphasize it.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #211
331. No harm here. No foul here...
If I had only waited before hitting reply, I would have seen your apology posted elsewhere in the thread and saved both of us time. And to be honest, my own response was less than civil.

It's a bad day all the way around. It's a bad year all the way around. I'm surprised more of us don't go off half-cocked.

No harm here. No foul here.
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nosillies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #209
236. Beautifully said...thank you
:applause:

I think that sums it up.
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #209
253. ...
:applause:
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #188
232. Do you seriously think that Americans can't walk and chew bubblegum
at the same time? That we cannot be shocked and saddened by the VaTech killings and still care about what is being done in our names but against our will in other countries???

Maybe Canadians have limited little brains and stunted little hearts like that so you assume we do, too.......
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #232
235. No, I don't think that. Certainly the people on DU have larger hearts than I implied..
This event angered me unexpectedly, and I lashed out at the wrong target.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #235
244. I noted your gracious apology elsewhere on the thread. All's forgiven.
A bad day, and a bad thing to happen.

:hug:
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #152
172. So that is supposed to somehow put this tragedy in some kind of perspective, then?
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #172
208. No..it's supposed to put Iraq in perspective
We've had over 3,000 of our soldiers killed, and what, 20,000 wounded in Iraq. Plus the stories of 10-50 people a day being killed in suicide bombings.

If 20-50 people being killed once every 5 years in the US at a shooting is a horrible tragedy (and it is) then why don't we feel the same way about what's happening in Iraq.

If we find out the gunman(gunmen?) were listening to rock music (or rap) we'll hear about that for years. If the gunman was listening to Imus last week the media will try to spin the story that way. If the gunman ever had sex with paris Hilton it'll go that way. They'll turn it into some sort of circus, they *always* do.

This story *WILL* be spun but the media. A good focus might be "Are there other places in the world where similar things might be occurring too?"

It won't be. It'll be rap, bad parenting, or God's vengeance for allowing gays to congregate. And it'll be a tragic waste of time.
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #132
150. You're right, this shouldn't even be news.
This shouldn't have even been reported at all. :eyes:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #132
161. Shame on you for trivializing these deaths, this pain.
Shame on any who trivialize ANY death.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #132
170. What the hell is wrong with you? n/t
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #132
176. and this doesn't happen in Montreal or Toronto???? Don't think so...
and the vast vast majority of DUers oppose the fucking war in Iraq - that comment is both inappropriate *and* stupid.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #176
341. There was a school shooting in Montreal
(it's difficult to follow the thread with so many deleted posts)

Somebody went on a rampage because there were female engineering students.
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annarbor Donating Member (543 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #132
179. In need of attention?
How many times does one have to say "They get it" before you move on?

Focus...focus...focus...

We're talking about the school shooting now....
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #132
189. You know, SOME people really ARE capable of caring about ALL human lives. Ever think
about that?

Redstone
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #189
199. Yes, I do. I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, and I owe the board an apology.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 12:57 PM by GliderGuider
Every death should be mourned. I know that many here grieve just as fiercely for the loss of Iraqi children, and devote much time and effort to stopping that senseless slaughter. It was an unworthy and hurtful comment, and I apologize.
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slj0101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:43 PM
Original message
Among the assholeish comments I've seen today,
yours is tops. Bra-fucking-vo.

Not much to weep about? Fuck you.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #132
231. Still gloating, eh?
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #231
234. No.
I wasn't gloating, and spinning my comment like that is a cheap, Republican shot. My comment was angry, hurtful and stupid, but there was no gloating in it.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
133. One of the worst tragedies for the state of Virginia in recent times...
I'm grief stricken over this. :cry:
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Penndems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #133
192. I am absolutely shocked that this horrible tragedy has befell Tech
Deepest sympathy to the families and loved ones of the students, and prayers for all. :cry: :cry: :cry:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
139. Oh damn, my sympathy to everyone involved, their families/friends.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #122
156. what a horror n/t
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #122
160. Jesus Fucking Christ...
Worse than UT Austin/Whitman/clocktower killings.




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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
157. What is it about spring time - especially April
That this evil crap happens? Seems like that is the majority of the time it takes place.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #157
185. April is an evil month, it seems
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 12:35 PM by Rocknrule
In addition to this, Waco, OKC, and Columbine, it's also the birth month of Saddam, Hitler, McVeigh and I believe Charles Manson.

I wish I didn't have to have been born in April myself. Its almost like having been born on 9/11.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
162. So close to graduation/summer break. This is horrible
I'm very saddened. RIP
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
173. Looks like Columbine has been dethroned as the king of school shootings
*shakes head sadly*
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
191. Massacre at Virginia Tech: 29 Confirmed Dead
Fatalities Expected to Rise; Suspected Gunman Among the Dead

Apr. 16, 2007 At least 29 people are dead in what may be the biggest mass killing on a college campus in American history and the death toll may rise.

Police at Virginia Tech, in Blaksburg, Va., said that the shootings happened at a dormitory and a classroom on opposite sides of the university campus.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said that one person was killed in the first shooting, which occurred just after 7 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a large dormitory. Flinchum said that at least 20 more people were killed at Norris Hall, an academic building.

The gunman, whose identity has not been released, is among the dead. Flinchum wouldn't say whether the shooter had killed himself.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
193. ABC is reporting 29 dead
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
194. Bush 'horrified' by shooting at Virginia Tech

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1631946620070416

If he could think about the suffering of Iraqi people every day he probably wouldn't order the invasion of Iraq.


Got sympathy?

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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #194
197. After all the iraq murders, it's hard to believe this sociopath is "horrified".
Maybe he means "glorified", but the white house publicist wouldn't let that go out.
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outofbounds Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
195. Oh My God
25 Dead Students. What a horrific thing for someone to do. All the people who are touched by this unimaginable act. What a sad sad day in America. Our youth is our greatest resource, our reason for being, our future and our treasure. Words have no way to express how empty this makes me feel at this moment in time. I knew no one there or even who had children there, but I hope they can find the strength to get through this shamefully incomprehensible act.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Just heard 32 on CNN confirmed dead.
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
198. unconfirmed death too 30+
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #198
203. It's just heartbreaking. Imagine the parents..the unanswered cell phone calls.
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Ex Lion Tamer Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #203
276. I thought I couldn't get any sadder
until I read your post. Thinking of the hysteria, fear, panic, and desperation of those unanswered cell phone calls is more than I can handle as a parent.

God be with them all--including the family of the gunner.
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
201. Oh my God
This is too awful for words. :cry:
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #201
204. unbelievable
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
206. Confirmed 32 dead.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #206
238. Twice as many as the *Texas Tower* sniper shootings.



Profound tragedies both.





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RL3AO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
210. Fox News reporting 32 dead
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
215. "Most mass murderers are male, white, conservative and..."
"Most mass murderers are male, white, conservative and come from relatively stable, lower-middle-class backgrounds. They are not usually adopted, illegitimate or institutionalized as children. They are usually people who aspire to more than they can achieve. They see their ambitions thwarted, and blame other people for keeping them down. They feel excluded from the group that they wish to belong to, and develop an irrational, eventually homicidal, hatred of that group. Invariably, they choose to die in an explosion of violence directed at a group they feel oppresses, threatens, or excludes them.

There are three types of mass murderers, the family annihilators, the paramilitary enthusiasts, and the disgruntled workers. They all tend to be young, white, males with easy access to weapons. Unemployment, loneliness, a family breakup, or just a tongue lashing from a supervisor can trigger their deadly rage. Though a phenomenon usually related to postal workers, it's becoming commonplace in high schools throughout the U.S., as well as in the Red Army in the former Soviet Union. Strangely, Australians and New Zealanders are also prone to sudden fits of lethal madness. Most rampagers tend to save the last bullet for themselves. Those that don't are usually declared legally insane."

http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/murder1.html
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #215
216. Not in this case...reports are he was "Asian-American" n/t
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #216
230. Thanks. I'm only sporadically following the story. I have a general idea...
...that it's an 'angry, white, male' thing.

Ever been fired?

I have. Along with about 40 other people.

They accompanied us to the parking lot. Hired security people. It felt weird.

Late stage capitalism's a gas ain't it?
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #216
249. Also, there was the Jeff Wiese, Colin Ferguson, and Jennifer Sanmarco shooting rampages
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 01:57 PM by brentspeak
One was a teenage American Indian; the second, a black man; and the third, a white woman. Mass murderers apparently take all types.
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #249
311. yes, "10 myths about school shooters", this is from the msnbc site
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15111438 /

this just applies to school shootings but parts of it surprised me.

Myth No. 1: 'He didn't fit the profile'

In fact, there is no profile. There is no accurate or useful profile of students who engaged in targeted school violence, the researchers found.

The stereotypes of teens in Goth makeup or other types of dress are not useful in preventing attacks. Just as in other areas of security -- workplace violence, airplane hijacking, even presidential assassination -- too many innocent students will fit any profile you can come up with, and too many attackers will not.

The demographic, personality, school history, and social characteristics of the attackers varied substantially, the report said. Attackers were of all races and family situations, with academic achievement ranging from failing to excellent.

Most, but not all, have been male, though that fact alone doesn't help an adult rule in or out someone as dangerous.

(more at link)
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #216
362. Not Asian American, reportedly--an Asian student
Here on a student visa. I've never bought a gun, but is it that easy to buy up an artillery that a young person here from another country on a student visa can go out and purchase it?
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
219. As a parent -- this is unbearable.
You pack your child off to college -- my youngest is 700 miles away from home -- and you hope he or she will be safe. And something like this happens. They're still counting the bodies. Every one of the dead was a person (not assuming they're all students, but many were, no doubt) with life ahead of them, with parents worried about them.

This is just unbearable. Makes me want to get my son home. TODAY.

Bake
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #219
225. same here
and my daughter is just an hour away ... too far for me right now.

gotta compose myself, and log off to call her.

what a heartbreaking day.
dp
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
222. My prayers are with the people of Blacksburg
I remember the fear and anguish we experienced here in Gainesville over a decade ago when a serial killer was stalking the town. I cannot imagine what Blackburg's residents must be going through. What a hideous thing.

I hope this resolves soon with the minimum of damage, and that people can mourn their dead, and start putting their lives back together. It's been my prayer for a lot of places these years.

May all be safe.
May all be healthy.
May all be happy.
May all grow in understanding.

Namaste
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GregW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
223. It's starting to sound as bad as Port Arthur
After that massacre, Australia essentially banned the private ownership of firearms. Will be interesting to see the aftermath of this.

Queue NRA talking point: "If the students had been armed they would have been able to defend themselves"
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Trehuggr Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #223
258. one of the silliest posts I have ever read
I very rarely post responses but this is something I cant ignore.
point number 1, this was a possibly preventable tragedy, if this had not been a "gun free" zone one person with a CCW permit could have stopped it before it escalated in to all these needless deaths

point number 2,there are already people trying to use the suffering and death caused by this incident for political talking points and that is absolutely reprehensible

point number 3 if this isn't an excellent argument for concealed carry then I don't know what else is. people died because of an idiotic policy forbidding anyone from defending themselves from this loon

Point number 4 this should be far more about what caused this tragedy and what we as a society can do to prevent it in the future than about gun control, which obviously didn't work here

and above all else, all of us should be deeply concerned about the both physical and mental well being of the victims, their family's and friends




may the Father of all welcome those students and teachers to his halls
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #258
265. Yes it is unbelievable
Wait for the armed nut to come and kill you
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #258
285. Well, at least this tragedy offers a chance for people....
To push their favorite political point.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #258
289. Yours is sillier
but - this is no time for such silliness. Let's stop all speculation, scoring points, the rushing to judgment. This is all to horrible. There will be time....there will be time...
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #258
307. oh brother
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Herman74 Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #258
330. I guess you believe that no one should leave home without...
...packing heat!!! People leaving for the office, children for school, everyone needs to have two pistols in their holsters before leaving home, right???

Yes, we can all return to the glorious days of the Old West. Trouble for you, though, is that the criminal having foreknowledge that a crime is going to be committed, draws his weapon first. And I would say that he could at least several before getting killed himself, maybe significantly more if he's wearing a bullet-proof vest.

Would you have us all be wearing bullet-proof vests too? That might well have cut down on the carnage in Virginia.

You ever stop and think what it would be like, everyone, everywhere carrying guns??? Guns on buses, subways, in malls, factories, offices, all over. Children, teenagers carrying guns (hey, they can be shot too, right??? Think Columbine). IS THIS THE KIND OF WORLD YOU WANT??

Or wouldn't it be much better IF NO ONE HAD A GUN? Those very low gun ownership rates in Europe, are you going to tell me that that is unquestionably impossible here??? No one has a gun, no one gets murdered by the gun.

Yes, as you say, "gun control didn't work here." THAT'S BECAUSE IT WASN'T EVEN TRIED

How many MORE MUST DIE before guns are eliminated from society???
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #330
334. There is a problem with "if no one had a gun" thing...
While it would be nice if somehow we could get rid of all the guns in the world, but that's simply not going to happen. Let's say the US enacted a law that banned all guns in the states. Short of searching every single home in the country, I don't see how that is going to make less guns on the streets(if that happened I have a feeling things might end up bad) At best, we would could get the registered owners of guns, but they often times are not the ones we have to worry about. Now, over time we would probably start to see a reduction in guns, but I doubt it will be quick and I doubt it would be much. People are very creative, and for some reason many Americans love their guns. I suspect it would just expand the black market and ultimately give more power(business) to criminal elements, kind of like the current drug policies.


Then of course there is the other part of the debate in which it's our constitutional right have guns. I'll save that debate for people who actually care if they are allowed to have guns or not...
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Trehuggr Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #330
367. I believe everyone should be able to choose
If those who had a valid Concealed carry permit were able to carry on campus this loon might have been stopped.
and as far as gun control not being tried, the virginia tech campus is a gun free Zone, didn't seem to prevent this




FYI criminals don't generally worry about breaking laws
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #223
267. Queue Brady Campaign talking point:
"This tragedy could have been averted if "common sense" gun control laws were in place".

Sure thing, Sarah. We all know what your idea of "common sense" means :eyes:
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #223
271. We need to ban ALL guns nationwide
This "isolated" crap happens all too often by people who bought their arms legally.
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #271
273. Molon Labe.
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #273
320. Don't worry, we will
I'm sure the ATF is shaking in their boots as we chat...
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #320
328. With 60 - 80 million gun owners in this country!
:rofl:

Even the ATF would be biting-off more than they could chew.

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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #328
339. So what you're saying
Is that the gun owners would be in open sedition against this countries laws?? You only obey the laws that you agree with?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #339
350. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #273
359. I Got Your Molon Labe

Thanks so much for the gun-pimping triumphalism. Really goes well with the events of the day.....
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #359
363. Maybe I should have waited a few days or week or so?
Naaahhhh... screw that. My RKBA will not be compromised nor surrendered that easily.









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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #271
283. I would bet that, if pushed for details, you would exempt police and military
You're all for the government having that form of power, even if it's run by Republicans.

:argh:
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #283
318. I'm less likely to be killed by the popo or military
Than I am of being off'd by some whacknut that didn't get his green M&M's
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #318
333. I'm glad to see you trust Dear Leader so much...
I'm sure the neoconservatives would never use the armed might of the state to oppress citizens. Tens of millions of people were killed by the own governments in the 20th century, more than any psycho shooter could ever match. That makes it pretty clear to me where the real threat lies.
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #333
337. Do you really think that if the government really wanted you
That your having a couple of guns is going to stop them??? Keep deluding yourself in thinking you can keep the government at bay. Last I recall, it didn't work out too well for Randy Weaver or David Koresh...
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #337
347. Yeah, we all saw how the Iraqi Resistance folded like a house of cards
Against the military might of the US.

Oh, wait a second.....
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #337
351. Weaver and Koresh led isolated groups of people that got surrounded by the feds.
A real civilian insurgency would involve more hit-and-run activity; sniping would be popular because there are lots of scoped hunting rifles around. If every other household in a neighborhood had an old .30-06 deer rifle, it would be impossible for occupying forces to hold the area; they'd get shot from unexpected directions every time they rolled in.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
224. Why were classes in session 2 HOURS after the first shooting?
WTF? You have one dead and several wounded and nobody seems to know where the shooter is, but classes go on as normal? Heads need to roll over this. The university and the local police have totally fucked this up. There should have been a lockdown as soon as the first shooting was reported.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #224
233. That's very hard to believe
You're right, heads need to roll.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #224
240. I'm inclined to agree...
Then this maniac was allowed to shoot at people at will for minutes.

This is just horrible.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #224
247. Some "lockdown"...
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 01:56 PM by regnaD kciN
It sounds like that meant "everybody stay where they are and wait for the killer to come and get you, too."

To my mind, there is NO excuse for a lockdown unless you've got the police there in force to be carrying out searches in the locked-down areas.

Worse yet, according to MSNBC, after the initial dorm shooting at 7:15 A.M., "shots were heard at Norris Hall at 9:45 and 10:15." WTF???? Why they didn't have local and state troopers swarming all over Norris by 9:47 is impossible for me to understand. How many kids died in that half-hour, remaining as sitting ducks for help that never came?

(I'd also like an explanation for the early announcement before the Norris shootings, both from the school itself and the major news media, that the shooter was "in custody." Somehow, that part of the story has disappeared down the memory hole. Did the authorities arrest a possible suspect, then essentially pronounce an "all clear" just in time for the killer to re-emerge and take another thirty lives? We're talking incompetence on a criminal level.)


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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #247
371. ESPECIALLY in these post 9-11 times
Wouldn't you think there was a super-efficient mechanism for dealing with this sort of thing? Like, uh, if there was a terrorist attack?
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #224
250. Yep-- much of this could have been avoided, it seems. nt
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #250
327. I imagine once the initial shock/mourning is over
The school officials will be facing alot of questions...from the victims' parents and the media.
2 hour time lapse and the second round of killing still happened?? Our local CBS radio had an official who was at the first crime scene say that they "just assumed" it was a "domestic" incident and that the shooter had left campus. I'm thinking that in that 2 hr time span they could have flooded the campus with extra cops, warned instructors and students, perhaps put out a description of the shooter from the initial site. If it was still only 7:15 or 7:30am..cancel/postpone classes for the day!!!!!!!!! Spread the word thru the dorms to kids who had not yet probably even gotten going in the morning to STAY PUT in their dorms/rooms. Especially with so many unanswered questions looming from the 1st shooting.
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pro_blue_guy Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
237. Sad day in the USA...........
My deepest sympathies, thoughts, and prayers............this is such a disturbing tragedy.........and as a college student myself, I am horrified that something like this happened.
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Penndems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
239. According to a UVa Kossack, the gunman was a six-foot Asian student from nearby Radford University
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 01:36 PM by Penndems
whose girlfriend, a Tech student, left him.

2. Went to her dorm room this AM - she wasn't there.

3. Shot her roommate and the RA in the dorm.

4. Went cross-campus to where she had her first class scheduled this morning, but didn't know in what room.

5. Started going into classrooms at random and shooting them up.

6. Once he was cornered - shot himself.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/16/105458/004

Blogger says "All of this is based off of rumor, second hand report, etc. but I've heard it from multiple sources."

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jmc247 Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #239
255. Rumors are bullshit
I want facts.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #255
259. This info. comes from student who was shot at in a classroom
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Penndems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #255
262. Same UVa student got this message from Tech:

email recd. from scene at VT (12+ / 0-)

Recommended by:MoDem, MarkC, OLinda, Paradox13, Fabian, Do Tell, se portland, condoleaser, Cassiodorus, pat of butter in a sea of grits, blue vertigo, LynneK

Names removed..

Apparently 31 are dead NAME last heard ... while the rescue squad
was in Norris looking for survivors someone called in a bomb threat...
the rescue workers were evacuated and couldn't look for more
survivors ... NAME had 2 patients who jumped out of Norris windows to
avoid getting shot. They jumped out of windows that were in classrooms
on the 2nd floor. Broke their legs/foot ... one of NAME's patients was
shot, he said only reason why he survived was because a dead guy fell
on him and covered him from shooter .. who came back and finished
everyone alive off in the room.


Welcome to DU, btw.
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #239
329. God, I hope not. I went to Radford.
Not that that would mean anything but I can't imagine.
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Penndems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #329
378. Turns out he was a Tech student
Everything else from the initial reports seems to be correct.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
257. BBC now reporting the story.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm

Today's storm is preventing medevac helicopters from landing. I don't know what things are like in VA but here in Southern MD we are having very gusty winds, up to 45 mph.
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
260. 30 people confirmed dead
My heart is broken. My daughter's a junior at VA Tech, but thankfully she was not on campus today. This is devastating. So many young people killed, my god, what kind of society are we?
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
261. K&R. MSNBC just said that this is the worst mass shooting in U.S. history! Yikes!
Thanks for the posting the link from WSLS. They're on the scene and MSNBC has been showing their footage all day. I sent this to my friend who is at work in VA, and just heard about this. This is so horrific that it just boggles the mind... ;(
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #261
281. I want to be numbed out to this. I understand the horror, but I don't get wiped out anymore
I think I'm getting used to news of mass murders lately. I'm still appalled by this news, but I can hear this stuff and feel detatched from the horror of it these days. I wish I was more fragile, but I'm not any more.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #281
291. Well, my friend, we're all numbed by the horror of Iraq. These are kids,
but there are a majority of kids in Iraq, too. I understand where you're coming from. Bill Maher said that all this constant horrible news just becomes noise in the background, since we just come too used to hearing it and it just becomes noise. It's very sad, but true, for most Americans, but more so for those who aren't paying attention. At least those of us here on DU are informed... ;(
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
274. What a Shame....
How about spending some good money on security for our kids in schools.......with less money going for wars.
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #274
279. I don't get this remark.. expound please
Do you mean having 20 more police on every campus to respond quicker or all students being searched every time the leave or go into a building?

Can you give some examples of what you propose, or is Security one of those catch-all words that will somehow help you sort out this heinous crime??
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #279
305. Tom, at times like these, people have the right to say senseless or half-thought things
Obviously it would be better to wait till all the facts come in. Sometimes the tongue can't wait that long. In a couple of days we can start to talk about what to do about it. Right now I think a board like this is just good for the typographical equivalent of screaming and pulling out our hair.

No matter what happened in Virginia today, I'm sure we're going to find out it was all senseless.
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #305
345. I just want to know
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 07:03 PM by tomhayes
What the hell "Security" means?
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #345
358. Security means....
many different things to every different person. Security is safety to you and the ones around you. Put your child, spouse or mother in a given situation and have reasonable comfort knowing that harm will most likely not be done to them. Sure, a lot of "Security" and "Safety" is artificial and can never stop someone determined to cause harm to others from doing so. Some security steps taken in advance of a tragedy can actually prevent crimes from happening. It has already been proven that installing fake cameras in a drug store, and placing signs stating that shoplifters will be prosecuted to the fullest extent actually do reduce shoplifting incidents.

In this case of the VT shootings, what does security mean? This is a campus that yields in excess of $24,000 per student in tuition and boarding costs, with enrollment of over 26,000 students. That is $624,000,000, excluding federal grants, corporate sponsorships, research grants, and alumni donations. The campus has no surveillance system. Not in the outside campus area, nor in the public areas of the dorms. Wouldn't a simple video of the first shooting have been evidence enough for locking down the school? Would there have been an immediate description of the individual responsible for the first shooting? Would this have hindered his ability to wander the campus for over two hours before his second shooting spree?

Or is it more important for Virginia Tech's, Charles Steger to receive $663,687.00 in 2006-07 in salary?
http://blogs.roanoke.com/campuswatch/archives/administr...
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RL3AO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #274
288. Wouldnt be practical
too many buildings and even if there was a guard outside the building, he wouldnt have gotten to the shooting quickly enough.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
278. latest: 31 dead, 17 wounded, out of that, 8 critically nt
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
287. This is an important tragedy to cover as it is the worst mass shooting in U.S. history
I'm 31 and graduated from college in CT in 1999 we had someone ty to shoot another person on campus (I went to Central Connecticut State U). Luckily, it was the weekend and the campus police got involved quickly. It sounds like VA Tech's security really screwed up. Allowing classes to go on while a shooter is at large? Not locking down buildings? They should have canceled all classes, locked the dorms down, and locked the halls that still had classes going on. Ridiculous! I also think while Iraq is an everyday tragedy this hits closer to home and effects parents who have children who are college students. I'm going back to school right now (just a small local community college) to get another degree and its freaking me out having to go there Wednesday. Very creepy. I don't think we should be angry that Iraq doesn't move us in this way. That is perfectly normal that it doesn't. But it effects the overall mood of this country and this is just one more thing to make us depressed.
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
290. Now 32 confirmed dead, including the gunman -
motive may never be known.

My god, this is tragic. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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tomhayes Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
292. Politicization starting NOW with Jack Thompson
He's on Fox blaming it on video-games.

He won't be the last.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #292
295. I wonder which videogame he blamed 9/11 on
Microsoft Flight Simulator? Rampage?

Fundie asshole
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
293. News conference on now..33 deaths(including the gunman)
No confirmation on gunman's idenity

Over 30 being treated in hospital



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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #293
294. still do not know if there is a connection between the 2 incidents
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #294
296. initial info led them to believe 1st incident was domestic in nature
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #296
297. Gunman took his own life
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #297
298. ABC reporting another shooting off campus
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #298
299. some of the doors were chained in Norris Hall from the inside
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 03:56 PM by maddezmom
and bodies were found in many different locations
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #296
300. they secured the building and the crime scene and felt the shooter had left the buidling
and were looking for a person of interest at that time.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #294
301. and are actively seeking information if there is another shooter
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #293
302. the only info the police will give on the deseased shooter is he's a male
I'm really thinking there was another shooter. :scared:
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routerror Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
303. is the killer asian?
i heard that he is an asian. is that true?
if so, what is his nationality?
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #303
304. not confirmed in the news conference that is ongoing
Police will only confirm it's a male at this point.

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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #303
308. who cares
:shrug:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #303
309. There is a picture of what appeared to be an asian man in handcuffs.
But it has been confirmed that the shooter killed himself. I don't think that person was the shooter.
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Altean Wanderer Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #309
365. The Asian man is the first shooter, who is the second who killed himself? n/t
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katamaran Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #309
368. Guy cuffed in pic was school photographer
Guy cuffed in that pic was a school photographer that was tackled because he fit the description and he was trying to get close to take pics. Saw it in another forum from a student who is friends with him.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #368
369. Yes, information has changed a lot since my first post.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #303
312. Those are the rumors, and the way one of the injured students who was interviewed
described him, possibly Chinese and that this started as "a domestic dispute," from what they've said on MSNBC, but these are not confirmed. MSNBC said that the authorities haven't yet released this information, since it's "an ongoing investigation." *sigh* Sound familiar? :-)
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #303
313. As long as he's not a middle-aged white guy, nobody on DU cares
:eyes:

Welcome, BTW.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #313
357. What The Hell Is That Supposed To Mean?

"As long as he's not a middle-aged white guy, nobody on DU cares."

Explain yourself.

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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #303
316. upthread there is a link to a phone interview with a wounded student
he called from the hospital, he was shot in the arm, and he identifies the shooter as an asian male.
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routerror Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #316
322. please let me know the exact URL in more detail
please let me know the exact URL in more detail
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #322
324. here
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routerror Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #324
325. thx
blk
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #303
319. Just said so on MSNBC -- not that it matters
although I bet Muslims across the country are giving a huge sigh of relief that they won't be blamed for this, too.

The common thread across all mass shootings seems to be either a romantic rejection or a feeling of being "dissed" by his targets.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #319
321. confirmed by police or from a witness?
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #321
323. It was some guy called in as a resource authority
I think he was either a specialist in mass shootings or an FBI guy.

Either way, it's so sad that this might stir up anti-Asian sentiment. It seems like it doesn't take much to get people feeling paranoid towards another race.
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Quetzal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
306. When I found out that students were lined up against the wall
and shot one by one, a tear went down my eye and a shiver went up my spine. I couldn't fucking believe it.

New York Times

Witnesses described scenes of mass chaos and unimaginable horror as some students were lined up against a wall and shot. Others jumped out of windows to escape, or crouched on floors to take cover.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/us/16cnd-shooting.htm...
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #306
326. wtf? was the killer a lone gunman, or a roving deathsquad?
I would think that sort of mass execution requires more than one person with a handgun -- I could be wrong, of course.
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jmc247 Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #326
360. I was thinking the same thing
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #306
332. I don't get why these people lined up? Even with a guy holding a gun on them
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 05:40 PM by superconnected
you'd think they'd know better.

I'm a small woman, and there is NO chance I would let the gunman be incharge. Even I would charge him if I couldn't run. WTF...

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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #332
343. you don't know what you would do in that circumstance
many people freeze or dissociate, it's an instinct probably out of their control
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #332
349. They might have thought that if they did what they were told, they wouldn't be shot
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #306
348. When I heard about this, the thought of herding them went through my mind
That was the only logical explanation for how someone could kill that many people without fully automatic weapons. Hell, he could have killed them with a .22 cal. squirrel rifle with that tactic. How fucked up and sad.
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #306
372. this is so strange
because all the witness accounts I've heard described random shooting, with the killer speaking not at all. Derek O'Dell who was shot in the arm, said he just walked in and started shooting and reloaded and started shooting again, other than that, besides the killer leaving and then trying to re-enter the room when he realized three students were still moving around, didn't make any other motions, aside from shooting at the door to re-enter it while it was barricaded. I keep hearing about this 'lining up against the wall' thing, but then I have also heard two students say he entered the classrooms and started shooting without saying a word. Strange.
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Frank Cannon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
310. Oh, my God, this is horrible. I'm old enough to remember...
when Charles Whitman shot a bunch of college kids from the bell tower at the University of Texas at Austin in 1966. That always represented in my mind the worst case scenario of all random mass shootings, and yet he only killed half the people that died here.

I'm stunned. This is just terrible.
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #310
344. My husband & I were just talking about this. When I told him about
this happening he asked if it was anything like the bell tower incident. Although I was young at the time I remember watching the news about it and my parents being horrified... this is even worse... so horrible and tragic for all those victims and those that love and care about them. :(
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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
335. I Don't know what to say.
And I once had classes in Norris Hall.


I'm just speechless.
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Chico Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #335
336. As did I..
Hey, on another note, my family is soon moving to the Mystic area.. my wife is part of that local tribe, ya know =)

take it easy..
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:04 PM
Original message
dup
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 06:05 PM by IsItJustMe
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
338. Another sad day for America. Seems like we have been having alot of them for the last 6 years.
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 06:14 PM by IsItJustMe
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
354. 33 dead including the gunman
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
356. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jmc247 Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
361. This whole thing is screwed up
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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
364. Second Male May Be Involved in VA Tech Massacre
Source: ABC News

Second Male May Be Involved in VA Tech Massacre
Police Cite Person of Interest in Dorm Killing;
Dead Gunman Yet to Be ID'd


By NED POTTER, DAVID SCHOETZ, RICHARD ESPOSITO, PIERRE THOMAS
and the staff of ABC News

April 16, 2007 A tranquil college campus in Virginia became a killing field
Monday morning. At least 33 people are dead in the worst mass shooting in
modern American history.

In a press conference tonight, Virginia Tech President Charles Steger gave a
detailed timeline of the morning's tragic events. He said a 9-1-1 call reporting
a shooting at a dormitory was made at approximately 7:15 a.m. While police
were trying to assess what they first believed was a domestic dispute, they
received a second 9-1-1 call, nearly two and a half hours later, that reported
shootings on the opposite side of campus. According to the Virginia Police
Chief Wendell Flinchum, officials have not definitively linked the two shootings.

Campus police have identified a person of interest who is not currently in
police custody. Police say the person of interest is a male who knew the
female who was killed in the original double homicide at the West Ambler
Johnston Hall dormitory. Flinchum also said he is not a student and that he
knew the female who was killed in the original double homicide.

-snip

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574
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KarmaKaize Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
366. This is the 370th Message on this Subject
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 10:49 PM by KarmaKaize
- The irrational loss of human life is a tragedy
- As Americans, we mourn the loss of every single American life
- As human beings, we mourn the loss of every single human being
- As members of DU, we mourn the policies of our government that have been so callous to the loss of all forms of life
- Let us dedicate ourselves every day to be aware of the evil represented by George Walker Bush and his negative influence on the prospects for peace in this world
- This dedication is a major path to self-realization, and towards the improvement of the conditions of life on this planet
- There is no higher calling at this moment in history
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #366
374. Thank you for your thoughtful post, KarmaKaize.
I agree with you and welcome you to DU. We're glad to have you with us.

Rhiannon :hi:
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Big_Mike Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
370. Could this tragedy have been lessened or averted if HB 1572 had been passed last year?
It seems a bill had been in front of the Commonwealth's General Assembly that would have allowed CCW permits. Given the number of combat veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan going to college, could a person who had the weapon and the mental mindset necessary have been able to defend those students?

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

...

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

...

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.


(And, most ironically, the following final paragraph. Mods please excuse 4 paragraphs, but they were more like sentences.)

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.


In our society today, there are literally thousands of, as Dave Grossman author of "On Combat" puts it, sheepdogs: the sheepdogs are those citizens who desire to protect the others from the acts of the wolves among us. Many might be frightened by the thought of armed persons among them.

I believe their fright would be less that that experienced by those students in the Engineering Wing.

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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #370
373. I take your point, but I disagree.
I think that we need fewer guns among the general public, not more of them, and my first thought when they were speculating about what kind of gun was used in this terrible tragedy was whether this could have been avoided if the Assault Weapons Ban had been renewed. :-(

And having this rule in place hasn't done VA Tech much good, since this is the second shooting that they have had there this year. If it had been enforced, this troubled young man wouldn't have been able to have perpetrated the violence that he did on innocent strangers. And I am speaking as someone who used to shoot competitively and was a former member of the NRA. Allowing students, whether they are trained combat vets, or not, to carry weapons is just a recipe for disaster. :scared:

My heart also goes out to the students in the Engineering Wing who showed a lot of courage in a horrific situation. If there are any heroes in this terrible thing, it's them, and I can't even imagine what a nightmare they faced or will continue to have about this terrible day. ;(
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
379. why is this incident not on front page?
its on the front page anywhere else..... all over the world.

its time to wait to get Gonzo til Thurs and to have some serious gun control conversation and emergency response
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efhmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
380. Help me out here. Yesterday, I heard about this horrible event
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 01:04 PM by efhmc
first on Randi Rhodes yesterday. She and a caller both said that the first thing mentioned at the White House Press conference on the event dealt with gun rights but in the online press conference I did not hear this. Can anyone tell me where this idea came from?
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