Spector 'said all women deserve a bullet in their head'

[DemBones DemBones]

Source: The Independent (UK)

Spector 'said all women deserve a bullet in their head'


By David Usborne in New York
Published: 05 April 2007
Prosecutors in California have asked the judge in the forthcoming murder trial of the legendary rock music producer Phil Spector to allow the introduction of evidence that allegedly demonstrates that he has had a long history of displaying violence to women.

Prosecution documents submitted to the court cite claims made by a former female employee at Warner-Spector Records between 1974 and 1977 that Mr Spector once placed a shotgun or a rifle against her forehead when she attempted to leave a party at his home.

Separately, prosecutors are also attempting to introduce testimony from a former police detective who provided security at a Christmas party held at the home of Joan Rivers in 1995 or 1996 that Mr Spector declared that women "deserve to die. They all deserve a bullet in their... head" while he was being escorted out after a fracas inside.

Mr Spector, who revolutionised the recording of rock music with his "wall of sound" technique, has been charged in the death by a gunshot wound of the actress Lana Clarkson at his Los Angeles mansion on 3 February 2003.

He has pleaded not guilty. If convicted he could face life in prison.

Read more: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2422664.ece

---

Sorry if anyone thought this was Sen. Arlen Specter speaking -- LBN rules require that EXACT title of article be used.

Domestic abuse is a political issue as well as a social issue, and this is current news of what a man on trial for shooting a woman to death has reportedly said in the past, while holding a gun to another woman's head: "All women deserve a bullet in their head.'

I think LBN is the right place to post it, but Mods may disagree and move this. In any case, I hope the story won't disappear; it could lead to a good discussion of violence in our society. I also hope it won't turn into a debate about guns; Nicole Simpson is just as dead as Lana Clarkson and Nicole Simpson was slashed to death with a knife.

I'm sure someone can provide statistics on the number of women killed each year by a lover, husband, male acquaintance or "ex-". I just took a minute to post it, have to log out, get ready to go to a class this morning. Women killing their lovers, husbands, male acquaintances and ex-s shouldn't be ignored, either.

Spector, BTW, has pleaded not guilty. If convicted he could face life in prison.

[Delphinus]

1. You're right ...

Senator Arlen Specter is the first person I thought of!

[monarch]

2. Me too n/t

[spotbird]

6. Yep, I thought

maybe his insanity is breaking through so that everyone can see it.

[jollyreaper2112]

12. no

Specter said "all republicans should be shot in the head" but then backed down when the bill came up for a vote. Just political grandstanding.

[orleans]

71. no

arlen said "jfk was shot in the head with one bullet and it was like magic"

[DemBones DemBones]

33. Me, too! But he only believes in "magic bullets" . . .

In case someone doesn't know, Arlen Specter was the one on the Warren Commission who came up with what's called the "magic bullet theory" to explain how one single bullet could have done so many things on November 22, 1963, in Dallas. As I recall, the "magic bullet" allegedly passed through two parts of JFK's body and two parts of Texas Gov. John Connally's body (Connally riding in the front of the Kennedy limo0 but it may have been more times than that, and it followed a complicated path like the sort of shot a really good pool player can make.

Then it exited whichever body it was in last and was miraculously found lying on the gurney next to JFK, IIRC, though it may have been next to Connally, at Parkland Memorial Hospital. I think a Dallas cop found it. If someone knows any errors in this, please correct. Its been a long time since I read about it.

Did you know Gerald R. Ford was on the Warren Commission? And Nixon made him president. . . Think there's a connection? There was a conspiracy to kill JFK, we just don't know for sure who did it, though we have considerable info on players. Oswald was neatly executed by Jack Ruby within the jail, so he never got to prove that he was the patsy he insisted he was during the brief time he lived between JFK's death and his own the following day.

Amazingly, most people bought the Warren Commission report's conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I was a kid, was devastated that this could happen in our country in 1963, but I never thought the government would lie to us, so I believed it at the time. It was nice to live in Happy Days. . .

Of course, we were never taught in school that "Remember the Maine!" was a war slogan that resulted from the accidental explosion of an American ship, the Maine, docked off Cuba which the yellow press of William Randolph Hearst reported as an act of terrorism, and that's how we got suckered into that war. Hearst had sent a photographer there to take photos of the war. The photographer said there was no war and Hearst replied, "You supply the pictures, I'll supply the war." Hearst or one of his minions came up wit the slogan "Remember the Maine!" to get us to go to war. Lots of things like that were never in the history books.

[Ecumenist]

53. I thought it was Arlen Specter too...

Now, what does that say about the state affairs in the American political landscape?

[salin]

3. What is so disturbing about this story - is that apparently

he has long exhibited this behavior - but as a powerful man there were no reprecussions. Not even any 'shunning' (as in, I don't want this guy at my party threatening my friends...) Domestic violence is one of those areas most folks just don't want to talk about and thus so little, policy wise, is done and so few resources are devoted not only to help victims - but to try to address root problems to change the rates and, to an extent, "acceptability" of such violence.

There are some cases of domestic violence that flip the other way - and I understand that there are even more taboos in seeking help (ala no one will believe and/or so few resources). It is far less common - but the discussion should include this point as well.

[hang a left]

70. As I remember it really wasn't domestic violence...

he had picked her up at a bar and took her home.

She ended up dead from a gun shot wound on his porch.

I think he tried to say she committed suicide in the beginning.

Sketchy.

[Triana]

83. Violence Against Women

That Act that bu$hit refuses to fully fund or allow new funding for - for the 5th year in a row now - the Violence Against Women Act is meant to address some of the problem. But he has no interest in that, being a mysogenist, violent, deadly, control freak himself.

http://www.stopfamilyviolence.org/ocean/host.php?folder=66

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Thought of Phil Spector right away

Something about a certain rock and roll mentality made me think record producer rather than Senator. Domestic violence is just violence, and it effects everyone in the family--the children often grow up to be abusers or to submit to abuse.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

19. Rock 'n roll has nothing to do with it...

Misogyny can be found in every corner of every profession. I've encountered it as a classically trained violinist.

[DemBones DemBones]

47. I'm glad you said that. People make assumptions based

on a few well-known cokeheads, etc. My daughter's a rock musician and says it's the club owners and hangers-on who do most of the dope. Musicians who are touring and working as hard as they do just don't have the time to waste on drugs. I'm sure classical musical is very tiring, too, rehearsals, touring, hours onstage -- you just don't have to carry amps and speaker cabinets! ;-)

I encountered misogyny in my field (biology), too. I had a dept. chair at a college who was monomaniacal as well as misogynistic; we all thought he beat his wife. Terrible for female students; they saw how he preferred the male students.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

65. The Vienna Philharmonic never even hired women until about 10 years ago...

...with the exception of a harpist who was not considered a regular member...male harpists being hard to come by.
And it would seem that they only hire women grudgingly.

Here's an interesting article:

http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/admin/women/vienna.html

[DemBones DemBones]

72. That's terrible. You should start a thread

about that. People don't realize the discrimination against women that still goes on, the sneaky ways employers seem to pay men and women equally but give men perks that are as good as an increase in thei salary.

[Karenina]

85. Holy shit GoG!!!

I knew about Berlin but THAT one made my stomach churn! (You should see those weird things they call oboes!!!)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

86. I know a Russian woman violinist

who agrees with the substatus of women in major symphonies, which shocked the hell out of me. Her thinking is that women, being the primary childcare providers, can't possibly be as proficient in their playing as men, who aren't inhibited by such distractions as children and domestic issues. And of course, every woman wants children at some point in their life.

I told this story to a guy that I had just begun working with in a string quartet. His response was, "So she was completely compliant" with a sick grin on his face that only hinted of the mysogeny to come. He now works in an all-male quartet, and a couple of the members are not particularly keen on him.

[Sadie4629]

5. Domestic violence has just become a deeply personal issue for me

My niece has just left her b.f. because he beat the crap out of her. It isn't the first time; he was already on probation for beating her up, so he's sitting in jail--for now.

I'm afraid she will go back to him. We're hearing, "I wasn't totally innocent; I hit him, too." "He's still the father of my child." She makes it obvious that she still has deep feelings for him.

For his part, he's trying to manipulate her. Wanting her to tell the judge he needs to be home to take care of the kid while she works. (She works in a daycare center and takes her son with her.)

These are all so typical of the whole d.v. cycle. It breaks my heart to know what she has to look forward to, and the effect it will have on her one-year-old child.

[Lerkfish]

15. if there is a domestic abuse organization in your area, get her some help, fast.

that's classic abused rationalization going on there. That means it has been beaten into her over time.
If its to the point where SHE is parroting the abuser's talking points, professional intervention would be a good idea.

My heart goes out to your neice. I've had a sister and a neice in similar situations. Its not pretty.

[DemBones DemBones]

36. I'm so sorry to hear that. It's classic for

women to blame themselves, think the man 'loves' her and just "has a temper." Having a temper does not mean you have to beat someone up. Most people have a temper and they just yell or throw something, don't hurt anyone else, when they're irate.


What a con artist, wanting her to tell the judge he has to be home to take care of the kid while she works, when she works in a day care center and takes her son with her. :grr:

I know you know that he may abuse the boy, too, but she probably blanks out that possibility. That's what "battered wife syndrome" is all about.

A man who beats up a woman will beat up a child, IMO. Same for a woman who beats up people she can physically overpower. Abuse of the elderly is a major problem , too, and often the abuser is the son or daughter taking care of a parent or parents.

I hope and pray she will come to her senses, get some help, and get far away from him before he gets out of prison. (I'm hoping he'll go to prison, hoping they'll go ahead with a trial even if she tries to withdraw the charges, but I don't know how many years he could get.)

Someone I know has had to raise her grandchildren because her son-in-law stabbed and strangled her daughter to death, with the kids in their beds. The defense attorney argued that the father's parents should get custory since he could be out of prison in as little as 7 years and resume custody!

Fortunately, the family court didn't see it that way, didn't think "Daddy" should have a right to the kids whose mother he murdered, and awarded permanent custody to the mother's parents. I don't know whether he was charged with 1st degree or 2nd degree murder but 7 years seems too short to me. Maybe they knocked it down to a manslaughter charge, I don't remember. I think he was sentenced to 20-25 but parole would be possible after 7. I was shocked. That defense attorney later ran for office and you'd better believe I did not vote for him.

[DemBones DemBones]

37. Ignore this, just a double post

w.eird computer glitch

[BlueIris]

79. Oh, gosh. So sorry to read this.

Stick around, Sadie. This website has terrific, supportive posters. It really helped me when I was recovering from an abusive situation and blaming myself.

[tanyev]

7. I bet Ronnie could tell some hair-raising stories.

The 'guy' in question, of whom Ronnie is forbidden to speak, is her ex-husband, Phil Spector, whom she left in 1973 and divorced in 1974, after five dreadful years as a virtual prisoner in her own Hollywood home, but who continues to cast a long, dark shadow over her life. His psychological hold on her is such that she never once refers to him by his actual name in the course of our conversation.

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,,1739547,00.html

[all.of.me]

8. i wonder how his mother treated him as a child. nt

[bling bling]

75. Me too.

And also I wonder how his father may have played a role in his hatred of women.

I think it's relevant to ask such questions. I hope someone in the media does so.

[Demit]

9. What I thought: if it was about SpectER, and not SpectOR, it was written by

someone with lousy attention to spelling, thus from a second-rate website or blogger. Sorry, it's one of my pet peeves, sloppy spelling. As if it doesn't matter. With posting this story, you just proved it does.

[DemBones DemBones]

42. What I thought was, "I thought it was spelled SpectER," having

forgotten about the Phil Spector story since the killing happened long ago. It also was early in the morning when I saw the headline and the name SpectOR didn't ring any bells at all. Sic transit gloria mundi!

Since it's a UK paper, there'd be no reason for them to think their readers might be confused, unless Arlen Specter is well known in the UK.

Sloppy spelling bothers me, too, BUT in forums I figure most of the spelling errors are typos. Sometimes, when it clearly isn't a typo I wonder if I should tell a poster via PM that s/he misspelled a word. I know I would want to know if I'd been misspelling a word but I don't know if others feel the same.

I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't from a reliable source; as per LBN rules, but LBN rules also made me se the EXACT title. What can you do but play by the rules?! :shrug:

Great user name, BTW!!!

[jollyreaper2112]

10. what a moron

What a moron. If all the women get shot in the head, who's going to make breakfast?

I kid, I kid!

But seriously, how does someone like this remain employed? Everyone saw the Lilly Tomlin/some director meltdown that was circulating a few weeks back? It was from the set of Huckabees. The director went mental. Same director got punched in the face by Clooney for being such a dick on the set of Three Kings and Clooney isn't the kind of guy who punches people. How does this man remain employed?

Reminds me of another messed up story that sounds like it was made up for a serial killer novel. There's probably info on this on crimelibrary.com. Anyway, the guy in question is a brilliant research parmacist. The company employing him expects to make millions off his research. Only problem, he also likes to kill women. So he's living in Mexico right now and the police down there can't get enough evidence to convict him. The pharmaceutical company is doing everything in it's power to help him because they see dollar signs if he remains free.

This sort of thing sounds like bad fiction but hell, so does a lot of stuff. Whenever one of the big child porn rings gets busted you think "No way, they had to make this up for Dateline, it's just too perfectly horrible." Catching judges, priests, politicians, all in on it? Too over-the-top. But it's true. In Mexico there's been a wave of women killings going on for a decade or two. The bodycount makes it seem impossible for it to be blamed on just one killer or even a small group of killers but it's impossible to get a proper investigation going.

What I'm getting at is that I find it astounding that such people can continue to exist within their own societies. You'd think "Ok, maybe people were overlooking death threats and attempted rapes or whatever but now that the guy has actually killed someone, now he's going to reap the whirlwind, right?" No. Shit, just look at OJ Simpson. That fucker killed two people and is making more money off of notoriety than I'll ever make with a straight job. You'd think a sense of shame and propriety would make people shun him. Any woman who dates him at this point is a fucking moron and an accessory to her own murder.

[Doctor_J]

11. Why don't you add to your headline:

(Phil) Spector ....

[DemBones DemBones]

44. LBN rules specify you must use EXACT headline. Or I would have! nt

[Kolesar]

81. that is not true...nobody would have locked you if you used parentheses...eom

[trotsky]

13. I really didn't think Spector would ever see the inside of a courtroom on this.

Different justice system for the obscenely rich.

[Triana]

84. And Violence Against (and general abuse of) Women is very much...

...accept in this society - esp by the obscenely rich men.

[devilgrrl]

14. Didn't Spector threaten the Ramones with a gun?

He wanted to use strings in a song, the band wasnt' into it, so he held them at gunpoint until they complied.

The guy is a nutjob and I hope he's convicted.

[edbermac]

16. Fired a gun in the control room on Lennon's Rock N Roll album.

The guy's is a whack job, but if they can't convict OJ or Robert Blake...:shrug:

[Bake]

17. And on top of that, his "wall of sound" sucks big ones.

That is all.

Bake

[silvermachine]

20. Um, no, it doesn't...

...he may suck as a human being, but his contributions to record producing certainly do not.
And I would think you would know that some freak named Leon Russell played keyboards on most of Spector's best known recordings. Right?

[Frank Cannon]

22. OK, good for Leon Russell, but the "Wall of Sound" still blows

I know Spector-produced recordings were pretty revolutionary at the time, but now they just sound like a whole bunch of performers crammed into a garage, playing songs that pretty much all sound alike...and as loudly as possible.

At least, that's what I hear. Your mileage may differ.

[mac56]

25. You're judging it by 2007 standards.

Your first phrase was correct: "I know Spector-produced recordings were pretty revolutionary at the time..."

Note too how many brilliant producers were inspired by Wall Of Sound.

The guy's probably an asshole, but you can't discount his innovations.

[Frank Cannon]

35. I suppose I am

And I know a lot of other producers were inspired by his techniques. Two people I know who LOVED his stuff, who happen to be musical heroes of mine, are Brian Wilson and Jeff Lynne. Amazingly, though, Spector's original songs don't do anything for me. Isn't that crazy? That's musical taste for you.

Regardless of Spector's musical innovation (which I really can't deny), the guy has serious emotional and psychological issues, and he appears to have needed intervention for quite some time. I really hope he gets it.

[mvd]

40. Musical taste can be quite strange indeed

It's all so visceral, in the figurative sense. Personally, I think it's hard to improve on his originals.

[Frank Cannon]

41. I think that arguing about music is like arguing about hair color.

Some people prefer blondes over brunettes. Some vice-versa. There are a whole lot of factors that go into any person's musical tastes. Kurt Cobain was a huge ABBA fan, for crying out loud.

I generally try to avoid "music threads", but I got sucked into this one.

[DemBones DemBones]

45. Kurt Cobain an ABBA fan? I'd never have guessed that.

This isn't supposed to be a music thread but I guess it was natural that there's be some talk of it. I wouldn't post a music thread in LBN but I thought domestic violence belonged here and the mods haven't moved it. It could also be about "celebrity justice" (lack thereof.)

[NashVegas]

55. Successful Musicians Aren't Nearly As Prejudiced As Most of Their Fans

that's just how it goes. Thank the splintering of radio for that.

[DemBones DemBones]

61. That's the damn truth! My daughter

is a rock musician so I know that most musicians are omnivorous listeners, as are many of us who are not musicians , but still it's a stretch for me to picture Kurt and Courtney listening to "ABBA" around the house. My own feelings about ABBA, I suppose, though I admit liking a couple of their songs.

We "boomers" had it better as far as radio goes, even AM was better than today, at least anything we get locally on AM. In high school, I "discovered" soul music by listening to WDIA in Memphis. Rufus Thomas was a dj there and after I'd listened to his show for a couple of years, he had his hit single "Walkin' the Dog," and soon we were all "doin' the dog" and driving chaperones crazy at school dances, as teenagers should do. I catch Rufus sometimes doing a new variation on that on one of the many XM channels.

[Frank Cannon]

67. Cobain refused to play the Reading Festival in 1992...

unless Australian ABBA tribute band Bjorn Again were on the bill with them.

Strange, but true.

[Kolesar]

82. Joe Strummer said he was an Abba fan in an interview .

I did not know what to make of that when I was 20 years old.

[mvd]

46. If it's a positive music thread, I always get involved

If it's a debate thread, I usually ignore them. Those are for politics IMO. If it's negative music thread, sometimes I'll post my opinion and agree to disagree from there.

Agreed with your analogy. :hi:

[ProudDad]

56. A lot of that could be the time of life

I was in H.S. when the Wall of Sound was blaring out of my AM car radio (the only place I heard it). It's in my cellular memory as the sound track of my (occasionally) happy youth.

As a recording engineer and producer, I think it was pretty amazing given the technical limitations at the time...

[silvermachine]

28. Unchained Melody...

...Be My Baby, River Deep Mountain High hardly sound like a "whole bunch of performers crammed into a garage, playing songs that pretty much all sound alike...and as loudly as possible".

[mac56]

29. Not to mention "John Lennon Plastic Ono Band"

and "All Things Must Pass"

[Frank Cannon]

39. Well, yeah, they do...to me

But like I said, your mileage may differ. Enjoy your Phil Spector with my compliments.

[Bake]

23. I love Leon, but not Spector

Sure, he produced some good records, but after a while that wall of sound all sounds the same. I prefer to be able to hear the distinct instruments, but that's just me.

Bake

[mac56]

30. "I prefer to be able to hear the distinct instruments..."

Hippie!

:evilgrin:

[Bake]

31. I've been called worse!

:-)

Plus, listen to some of those records somebody listed above, starting with Unchained Melody (which is a great record, by the way). Reverb overdose! Death by reverb!

Bake

[mvd]

34. I love his wall of sound

Doesn't get repetitive to me. In fact, it's nice that it has lasted into today's music.

Sad to see how nuts he has gotten, though. I think it's probably all the years of substance abuse.

[MnFats]

76. agree. P.S. was behind many GREAT songs. too bad he's such an asshole...

..be my, be my baby, be my little baby...be my one and only baby, be my baby nowwwwww a=whoa, ho ho ho nowwwwwwwwwwww

[mark414]

80. aye, anyone who can put together a song like "Be My Baby"

is a pretty fucking righteous music overseer by me

[pepperbear]

18. good thing he got that makeover....

before:



after:



personally, I think this is an absolute tragedy. It always pains me when artists turn out to be raving lunatics. He scared the hell out of John Lennon with guns.

[Alexander]

43. That's no makeover, just a different toupee.

His ex-wife had many stories to tell about how Spector would spend hours in the bathroom, fixing his hairpieces and trying to get them to look real. He wouldn't come out until he was finished, and to this day she's never seen him without one.

It's too bad he's nuts; he turned "Let It Be" from mediocre into decent. Then again, since his father committed suicide when he was a kid, I'm not surprised.

[DemBones DemBones]

48. The 2nd pic is even scarier than the first! Probably because

I've seen giant-Afro Phil many times lately.

It is sad when someone is unbalanced enough to kill someone, or attempt to, but I feel more sadness for the woman he killed. I don't know much about Spector's history, if he was a notorious cokefiend, alcoholic, whatever, but I gather that he was a substance abuser. A lot of substance abusers are "self-medicating" with their drugs of choice because of an underlying mental illness. So it's tragic that so many people are ashamed, fearful, whatever to get treatment for their mental illness and/or substance abuse, especially when it causes someone else's death or their own.

Never heard about Phil scaring John Lennon. Was that one incident or on a regular basis? Lennon was screwed-up in a lot of ways but he was trying to take responsibility in some ways at least, only to be murdered by someone else who didn't try to control his personal "demons."

A big part of the problem, IMO, is that our culture makes men feel that it is a sign of weakness to need help. That attitude killed my baby brother. I wish I could have done something to save him but he didn't listen to anyone.

[ProudDad]

57. Hmmm

sounds like the real problem is that he's a misogynist AND A GUN NUT...

Anything and GUN NUT is a problem..

[Alexander]

60. The operative part of "gun nut" is "nut", not "gun".

Perfectly sane people use and train in firearms every single day. Some of them protect your neighborhood.

I find the term "gun nut" to be rather loaded (no pun intended). If someone has a knife collection, and they seem a little crazed, are they a "knife nut"? Is someone who holds up a bus full of kids with a machete a "machete nut"?

No. They are just nuts. And if someone is nuts, and wants to use deadly weapons, they will do so, whether those weapons are guns, knives, or machetes.

[depakid]

21. From what I've seen of the facts- Spector's going down, but

This 10+ year old statement isn't relevant to the case- and should be excluded form evidence.

Why? Because it's so inflammatory prejudicial value far exceeds any probative value that it might have on the case issue.

The 1970's shotgun admission (a "prior bad act") is bit trickier of an issue, depending on who testifies but it probably won't come in either.

Not that the prosecution will need it.

[Bake]

32. I'd agree that the statement is excluded.

Clearly unduly prejudicial with no relevance to whether he actually committed the crime in question. The shotgun thing could go either way; generally speaking evidence of prior bad acts are not admissible to prove the defendant committed the act in question, but of course there are always exceptions.

Bake

[DemBones DemBones]

49. Thanks for giving us an actual lawyer's opinion, Bake.

I posted this because I was stunned that he had (allegedly!) said that while pointing a rifle or shotgun at a woman's head. It's too bad someone didn't do an intervention and have him involuntarily committed if that's what he needed. Might have saved a woman's life and saved him whatever he's going to have to go through as a result. I fear he will be aquitted like O.J. and Blake but maybe the prosecutor could ask the prospective jurors their opinions of "wall of sound" during voir dire. It would probably be the first time a jury consultant suggested that ploy, if one did. (Think we could get paid for suggesting it to the jury consultant?) JOKING


Being a woman, I found it pretty upsetting just to read the quote "All women should have a bullet to the head" in the headline. Especially when I thought it was Arlen "Magic Bullet" Specter!

(Hey, it was early! And it had been ages since I'd heard Phil Spector mentioned. and newspapers contain errors. Our local one once had a headline: "Murder victim testifies against killer.") :wtf:

[DemBones DemBones]

52. Hmm, you sound like you might be a lawyer, too.

Or do you just watch a lot of "Law and Order" like we do? (I don't know that I'd have remembered the phrase "probative value" from L & O but "fruit of the poisonous tree" is one I always think of.)

I missed your post earlier when I replied to Bake, knowing he's an attorney, so I wasn't dissing you by what I said to him.

[Bake]

54. I'm pretty sure depakid's one of those damn lawyers too!

:-)

Bake

[depakid]

59. Could be....

;-)

The California evidence code allows prior bad acts to show "propensity," (people may be familiar with the rule from Michael Jackson case) but my guess without looking at Witkin or the caselaw would be that the judge won't allow the 1970's "shotgun to the head" allegation in- at least without more corroboration.

It's just too old and too prejudicial (particularly since the jurors only have to "believe" that the allegation's been proven by a preponderance of the evidence).

[DemBones DemBones]

62. Definitely sounds like far more than

a "Law and Order" education. I'm guessing Witkin is not a subsidiary of Wikipedia. :hi: (Did you post at smirking chimp years ago under a very similar user name? Because I used to see you there before I started seeing you here. )

Admissible or not, that headline made my blood run cold, since I'm part of the segment of the population the defendant allegedly said "deserve a bullet to the head." Creepy statement, whether he said it or not.

[depakid]

63. Yep, he's creep

It's no secret that Spector's been abusive to women- someone upthread mentioned Ronnie, and I figure she could add a thing or two.

My recollection from earlier stories is that the coroner's report gives the defense somethings to maybe work with- but there's other damning evidence too. His chauffeur's on record saying that he came out of the house with blood on his hands, holding a gun and saying that he killed someone.

I think he also made some incriminating statements to detectives.

That's going to be pretty difficult to explain or refute.

Cases like this one tend to get tried in the media as well as the courtroom, so even if the statement and the shotgun allegation don't come in as evidence, some degree of damage has already been done.

Also: " Did you post at smirking chimp years ago..."

That would be me... that was a while ago- so it's nice to be remembered. :)

(of course, I remember your posts too- though maybe not at SC. You've been here a long time- and who wouldn't remember a screen name like Dem Bones!)

[DemBones DemBones]

66. Yes, that sounds familiar, the 'other damning evidence'

and incriminating himself. . . One thing I've learned from L & O is never to talk to police w/o your lawyer present. We love most of the detective characters but they do lie and manipulate to get a confession. Great fun to see Vincent D'Onofrio or Jerry Ohrbach get a confession out of someone when you are pretty damn sure the perp did it, but it's easy to see how a frightened innocent person might confess to get detectives to leave him/her alone.

Sometimes a script will have the detectives realizing the person they arrested is innocent and they'll go out and pursue new leads, go over the evidence again. But knowing that in any line of work there are people who don't do any more than the minimum required and/or are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, I have to wonder how many detectives would do that. The old 80/20 rule usually works well for most situations and I fear that 80% would be guys who wouldn't go the extra mile.

Remembering you was easy as I used to have to take that medication so I noticed your user name right away at SC, always read your posts! Was probably taking it back when I posted at SC and in the old days at DU. I can't remember what my SC user name was. I think it was Indy -- but could have been Indy something or something Indy. :shrug: Do you ever post at SC now? I still go back and read SC occasionally but haven't posted there in years, would have to re-register.

I was a bit envious of some people who changed their DU names during the amnesty (like a friend of mine who was Liberal Chick became XanaDUer, which I think is a great name) but I think DemBones DemBones is a good name so I stuck with it. I used to have a sig line that said "Democrat right down to my marrow," should use that again now that my old brain has recalled it.

Nice seeing you and Bake both in this thread since I haven't run into either of you lately. DU is so big now, so many forums, so many posters, I don't see the oldtime DUers as much as in the past, wonder who's still here that I'm just not running into. Like wondering about old high school and college friends no longer seen or heard from. :hippie:

[DemBones DemBones]

64. You guys are safe here, no

lawyer jokes. Too bad you're not near me and Mr. Bones, our lawyer died a few years ago and we'll never find another one as good around here I'm afraid. Plus you play guitar, as does Mr. Bones, who also likes to pick out all the instruments when listening to a record. Me, I'm just "here with the band," either his or our daughter's (also a guitarist.) Us groupies get free beer, y'know. :toast:

[Bake]

73. My two favorite kinds of beer!

Cold. Free.

:rofl:

Bake

[brentspeak]

24. Does this really fall under the category of "domestic abuse"

I think the victim in this case was a guest of Spector's who he had just met.

[Megahurtz]

26. What A Fucktard.

Jeez, does this Dude have issues or what?

[LeftishBrit]

27. He sounds seriously nuts!

As regards the frequency of domestic murders: in the UK, about 120 women and about 30 men are murdered by a partner each year. Nearly half of all female murder victims were murdered by a partner. The corresponding figure for male murder victims is about 8%.

Pretty horrifying.

Probably like many people here, my first reaction to the headline was "Even Specter couldn't be that nuts - they must mean Santorum!"

[DemBones DemBones]

50. . . .

:rofl: "They must mean Santorum!" :rofl:

So the Independent probably gave some of its home readers a start, too? I had decided they didn't say "Phil Spector" in the headline because Arlen Specter wouldn't be known well in the UK and Brits would not be confused. What do you think? Would most Brits know who Arlen Specter is?


Thanks for the stats for the UK. 50% of all female victims murdered by partner but only 8% of male victims murdered by partners, staggering difference.


(So much for all the hoopla about PMS rage; clearly women are less likely to kill, more likely to yell and throw things, usually carefully so as not to break anything.)


Now if somebody will find the US ones? Or I'll look later. . .

[LeftishBrit]

74. Yes, I think most UK-ers would instantly just think of Phil Spector

I would too normally; it was just because it was posted on DU, so I instantly assumed it must be about a politician. I don't think most UK-ers who aren't especially interested in American politics (as those on DU are by definition) would even have heard of the other Specter.

Part of the reason for the discrepancy between the proportions of male and female murder victims who were murdered by partners is that males are far more likely than females to be victims of *non*-domestic murders. However, even just looking at the absolute numbers of domestic murder victims, it seems that females are four times more likely than males to be killed by their partners.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

38. Bet it's been quite a while since he's gotten any

Bet it's a long, long time before he DOES...

[DemBones DemBones]

51. When I saw your header,

I thought exactly what you posted inside the box! I don't think he'll be enjoying the company of females for some time, if ever again.

Or he'll skate and go play golf with OJ in Florida.

[ProudDad]

58. Are you Kidding?

A rich record producer in Hollywood!!!

He can get it 50 times a day if he can get it up...

[Codeine]

68. Nahhh...

people with that kind of money walk every time -- prison is for proles.

[blogslut]

69. A lesson I learned long ago

Great artists aren't always great people. Spector's always been a hateful, abusive man. He got away with it all these years because he made money for the recording industry. Too bad his damned Wall of Sound couldn't stop people from suffering his bad acts.

[ends_dont_justify]

77. I am the one you fear

You illuminati failed in your mission. I was born anyway. Among you. Don't try your global genocide against my kind any longer...because retribution will be paid. I am awakened. Fear greatly. For I know you all, every one, in number, name, and soul.

I am the dawn.

[ends_dont_justify]

78. And I killed your god