French Muslims sue magazine over cartoons

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"A French court case shining light on the gray area where free speech and religious sensitivities overlap opens on Wednesday when Muslim groups sue a satirical magazine that published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad.

The Grand Mosque of Paris and the Union of French Islamic Organizations accuse Charlie Hebdo of inciting racial hatred by reprinting the Danish caricatures that sparked violence in the Muslim world last year.

Politicians, intellectuals, secular Muslims and left-wing pressure groups have lined up behind Charlie Hebdo, arguing that Muslim groups have no right to call for limits on free speech.

"I just cannot imagine the consequences not only for France but for Denmark and Europe if they lose the case," Fleming Rose, the Danish editor who first published the cartoons, told a news conference with Charlie Hebdo publisher Philippe Val.

"It would turn back the clock decades, ages."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/07/AR2007020700240.html

[Blue_Tires]

1. well this lawsuit will certainly be going places

:sarcasm:

whatever happened to just voting with your wallets?

[izzie]

2. People in this country do about the same.

My thoughts are that it is people who really believe they are right and you just can not stop them. Since right now a great deal of your tax money is being passed out to these same type of people it is a good plan to hear about it and what they are doing. It is the fundamentalist is all things that will do us in I think. Kook-aid drinkers every place must has a specially spot in their brains and it seem to be in every way of thinking.

[sam sarrha]

3. inch by inch..

[izzie]

4. You know Lenin was just the same about his thinking.

A zealot is a zealot and I think one always has problems with them in any field.

[manic expression]

15. Where did Lenin come from?

I'm having trouble seeing the connection.

He did what was best at the time, and that helped the Russian people immeasurably. He was among the best leaders of the 20th century, and allowed the workers of the USSR to reach unending improvement.

[izzie]

40. He would do anything to get what he wanted.

I think any one is a zealot that will do and pay any cost for what they think is right and they seem to think they knew they are right. Their is no maybe with these people. The 'isms' are full of these people just as the 'churches' are. It is what they are pushing plus how they are willing to get it that puts us in danger. A few business style has, I am willing to bet, enslaved about as many as any 'church' belief or political belief has.It is the style and type that run these movement that seem to be our danger. The Czar was as bad as Lenin or he as bad as the Czar. Both working in a form where people did not count just the end results. Communist vs. autocrats and Business has been willing for 100 's of years to take over countries for their business goods. Yes and often with army of the country sending in their army to help them with it.

[manic expression]

42. Specify

what Lenin wanted was a society without oppression and exploitation, and he achieved that, to an extent. He did many things, few of them were truly without solid justification.

And suggesting that the Bolsheviks were anywhere remotely near the Czar is suspect; the Bolsheviks made immeasurable improvements for the people of the Soviet Union, not to mention ending a worthless war that the people were tired of fighting (something the government of this country could learn from).

Your overall point, however, is correct IMO.

[msongs]

5. some people's beliefs cannot stand up against any criticism or those beliefs will collapse

particularly exclusionary oppressive religious belief systems that depend on demonizing others for their own advancement.Fear, threats, and intimidation reveal the weakness in their own beliefs about their own system.

the laws of islam or any other religion only apply to those who CHOOSE to believe that religion and life style.

Msongs
www.msongs.com

[LiberalFighter]

13. They don't want other religions to gain a foothold over theirs.

They don't have any faith that their religion can withstand the light of day. Most if not all religions don't have faith.

[treestar]

6. The Muslim Snickers Bar

We have no right to tell them they should not be offended! :evilgrin:

[NaturalHigh]

9. You beat me to it.

That's what I get for sleeping in this morning.

[pampango]

10. We all have the right to be offended. The French courts seem

to be a good place to settle the question of religion versus free speech. As the country that practically invented the lawsuit to protect your rights concept, we can hardly condemn anyone for filing a lawsuit to either protect or restrict free speech or religious rights. Better that this is settled in the courts or legislature, than in the streets.

[Solo_in_MD]

25. If bikiins offend them, does that mean all women should wear burquas?

Some muslims will answer yes to that question

[moez]

7. At least they're suing this time

Instead of tearing shit apart in the streets....

[Solo_in_MD]

11. Just wait, when they lose, it will start again

[Flagg]

14. No it won't.

Because the riots had nothing to do with religion.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. LOL

"it better wake up or Western culture will be lost forever."

Oh noes!

[Flagg]

19. The rioters weren't Islamic. They were black, white and Arab.

A lot of French citizens from North African origin happens to live in the Paris suburbs.
They have to face discrimination on a daily basis and an unemployment rate twice as high as that of other French youth. They also feel they are being harassed by the police.
That's why they rioted.

Not because that are Islamists who want to overthrow the Republic. Their religion would be more the Hip Hop and rap culture.
Most of them don't give a crap about Islam.

Don't believe everything you read about France in the american media.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. I think some people are confusing...

the french riots over the two murdered teenagers with the protests over the danish cartoons.

[Big Pappa]

39. I

guess we have to wait and see.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

8. Charlie Hebdo is funny as hell!

I saw the issue of Charlie Hebdo in question - it was hilarious, and an in-your-face rebuke to the fanatic Muslims who want to kill anyone who makes fun of Muhammed.

"Liberte d'expresion" is a BATTLE CRY in France, far moreso than it is here, and the mag will win this case handily.

However - please make the distinction between fundamentalist Muslims and the kids who rioted in the banlieus about 18 months ago. The MSM repeatedly identified them as "Muslim Youth", whereas in actuality they are a broad spectrum of poor French citizens including the children of North African immigrants circa 1962 (post-Algerian Independence). The youth of suburban France cannot be characterized as "Muslim". Their common religion is better descrbed as Hip-Hop and Rap and most have rebelled even against the middle-of-the-road Muslim identity their parents might have had. They are "Post-Muslim", particularly the women, who are throwing off the chains of oppression under which they have suffered for centuries in the patriarchal societies of North Africa.

[LiberalFighter]

12. Only the followers should obey their requirements/beliefs

If they don't want others to offend them then they should move to a country that is predominantly Muslim and follows their edicts. And they should prohibit any non Muslim from entering that country to ensure that no one violates their sacred practices.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Hmm.

"If they don't want others to offend them then they should move to a country that is predominantly Muslim and follows their edicts."

So if black people didn't want people calling them "nigger" they should move back to Africa?

[LiberalFighter]

20. Being black is not a religion

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. So it's OK to be bigots against religion?

Can we tell the anti-defamation league that if they don't like anti-semitism, they can go back to Israel?

[LiberalFighter]

28. Not being bigots against religion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These particular people expect everyone else to follow their religion. BIG DIFFERENCE

AGAING if they want others to follow their religion then they need to be in a location where only those that follow their religion live PERIOD

The anti-defamation league does not expect everyone to follow their religion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Muslims expect everybody to follow their religion?

Is that like how Jews are a threat to our pure aryan blood lines?

[LiberalFighter]

31. You must not be able to read

Why are these French Muslims being offended by a cartoon depicting terrorists that happen to be Muslim as bad?

"What is sacred for a religion is sacred only for believers of that religion," he told the court. "If we respected all the taboos of all religions, where would we be?"

I sure as hell am not going to go out of my way to learn every religion's taboos and be expected that I won't offend them.

Everyone as far as I am concerned should keep their religion private where it belongs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. The cartoon wasn't depicting terrorists that happend to be muslim

The cartoon was depicting all muslims as terrorists.

"I sure as hell am not going to go out of my way to learn every religion's taboos and be expected that I won't offend them."

Obviously. You're going out of your way to offend other religions period.

"Everyone as far as I am concerned should keep their religion private where it belongs."

Wish you'd put a cork in your own wacky beliefs.

[LiberalFighter]

33. You are being put on ignore

you are a wack job

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Coming from you...

I take that as a compliment.

[pampango]

22. If I decide to move to France, it will be because whatever

opportunities I envision there are worth the hassle of adapting to and living with a new culture and language. If I decided to move to Egypt, same thing. I might be considered a little hypocritical if, once I arrived, I started agitating for France or Egypt to make their cultures more "American."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Well good for you.

:thumbsup:

[pampango]

26. Thank you. But I understand your point that Muslims are

different and more "special" than the ol' run of the mill American.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. No no.

My point is that you're full of beans.

[pampango]

30. I've been full of worse.

[deadparrot]

34. Sorry, but I side with the free-speechers on this one.

If the cartoon was a Christian fundamentalist or Jesus bombing an abortion clinic, I'd support it. Same with any other religious figure and/or their followers, even if it's in bad taste.

[hogwyld]

35. France can't have it both ways

It's wrong for France to bring in the Muslim people for the low skill/low pay jobs, embrace a multicultural society, and then insult the Muslims particular culture/beliefs. People around the world need to be more sensitive to their concerns.

[fujiyama]

37. Of course the French have done an awful, piss poor job of integrating

and assimilating many of its immigrants. And racism and xenophobia have kept many North Africans and others poor and stuck in ghettos.

As far as I know, French and European laws in general regarding free speech are quite different from the States...but religious satire is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to a democracy. No religious group should be free from having their dieties made fun of.

No one has the right not to be offended.

[pampango]

41. France, indeed, can't have it both ways and should do more to

assimilate its immigrants. The immigrants, also, can't have it both ways. When you immigrate to a new country you should accept both the employment and the culture of your new country. An Algerian immigrating to France should be held to the same standard as a Frenchman immigrating to Algeria. Protect your rights, but accept the culture along with the job.

[fujiyama]

38. I hope the magazine wins

It's vital in a democracy to have the right to mock religion.