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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 09:55 AM
Original message
Anti-War Groups Push Impeachment

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0107/2499.html

Anti-War Groups Push Impeachment

On Monday, a small army of anti-war activists will fan out across Capitol Hill to lobby for congressional support to impeach President Bush, who's facing a storm of opposition for his handling of the Iraq war.

...

It's a tricky issue for Democrats in Congress, who share many of the same frustrations about Bush and the war, but are hesitant to even discuss impeachment. "Hell no," said Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C., the House majority whip, when asked whether impeachment is a possibility.

...

"The only "I" word I worry about right now is Iraq," said Rep. Henry A. Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which is planning hearings on the Iraq reconstruction next week.

Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg, D-N.J. said that calls for impeachment were "premature" although he added: "If failures continue, there is no telling what the outcome can be in terms of congressional attitude."

Others had a more practical concern. "If we impeach President Bush, then Vice President Cheney is next in line (to be president), so I don't think we'd go there," said Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash.

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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Lobbying face-to-face, where we can directly challenge their irrational. . .
Edited on Mon Jan-29-07 12:02 PM by pat_k
. . .fears and rationalizations is the ONLY way we have a shot at getting through.

Marches, petitions, email, and faxes demonstrate numbers, but these are all one-way communications. As long as their wall of rationalizations remains intact, our demands slide off them like water off a duck's back. To make the valuable efforts of the many effective, we need a few people to get in their faces. Repeatedly. Persistently. Force them to voice their irrational notions -- notions that that NEVER get challenged in their insular world. Challenge their absurd assumptions.

Focusing ONLY on impeachment is the only shot we have at restoring the sanity required to take ANY action toward extracting ourselves from the quagmire in Iraq. In other words, forget Iraq. Tell them to forget it. ONLY Impeachment can enable us to move forward on ANYTHING.

As we lobby for impeachment, we must recognize that a vast majority of the Reps and their staffs are clueless about the PURPOSE of impeachment (as are many folks out here). We've got to challenge them on the basics, in two-way dialog where we ask questions, elict their rationalizations, and challenge the dysfunctional and self-defeating belief system that dominates their insular beltway world.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=160&topic_id=24657&mesg_id=24662


As we lobby for impeachment, we should be to be crystal clear about its purpose

Keep in mind that:
  • They are Congress, not the Courts.

  • Impeachment is a political process, not a judicial process.

  • Impeachment is defensive; not punitive.

    We charge Congress with the duty to defend against threats to the Constitution. Impeachment is the weapon we gave them to remove a threat by removing an official's power to harm. This is the first, and most urgent, priority.

    Retribution for violations of U.S. Code and International Law is for the Courts (both here and at the Hague), not Congress.

  • Impeachment is bound only by the intentionally vague guidance provided by our Constitution; judicial processes are bound by our substantial body of written law and precedent.

    Members of Congress must make a personal judgment grounded in moral principle and the intent of the law. There are no legalisms or complex 'technicalities' that can trump reality. They must be guided by their oath and their conscience.

    Members of the House must decide for themselves what constitutes an impeachable offense. The House as a body defines the what steps are necessary or unnecessary to impeach. Senators decide for themselves whether articles of impeachment transmitted from the House merit impeachment, and what standard of proof to apply.

  • The interests that an impeachment seeks to balance are very different from the interests that a criminal prosecution seeks to balance.

    • In a criminal trial, the standard of proof seeks to strike a balance between mistakenly:
      1. depriving a citizen of their rights
      2. releasing a guilty individual

      When balanced against the sanctity of our civil rights, the risk of releasing a guilty person loses.

      To tip the scales in favor of protecting civil rights, a very high standard of proof is applied (beyond reasonable doubt).

    • In an impeachment, the standard of proof seeks to strike a balance between mistakenly
      1. depriving an official of the privilege of power
      2. leaving power in the hands of an official who is subverting the Constitution or otherwise abusing that power

      Each Senator must decide for themselves what standard to apply, but when balanced against the sanctity of our Constitution, the risk of mistakenly depriving an official of the privilege of power should lose, particularly when you consider that power is granted to elected officials; it is not a basic civil right.

      To tip the scales in favor of protecting the Constitution, a lower standard of proof is required (e.g., probable cause, preponderance of the evidence). When Members of Congress, opinion leaders, or fellow citizens assert that a higher standard applies, we should challenge them whenever possible.

    In the case of Bush and Cheney, we have proofs that meet a standard much higher than impeachment calls for.

    When we recognize the purpose of impeachment, it becomes crystal clear that. . .

    Impeachment has been a moral imperative for years.

    Bush and Cheney demonstrate their willful intent to nullify the Constitution when they assert the fascist fantasy of a "unitary authoritarian executive" that can break the law at its whim.

    In their attack on the Constitution, Bush and Cheney are blatantly committing grave violations of law that go far beyond impeachable. They have committed crimes that are subject to the penalty of death. Namely, war crimes under U.S. Code (Title 18 section 2441) and international law and the Anti-Terrorism Act (Title 18, Section 844 paragraph e. Bomb Threat -- "mushroom clouds in 45 min").

    In addition, they violate the sanctity of our civil rights with their criminal spying operation (Title 50, Section 1805).

    From http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Senator/10"> Rationalizing for Inaction on Impeachment:

    . . .charges have already been investigated and even adjudicated. They have admitted violating FISA -- and have tried to "defend" it (mutually exclusively) by claiming inherent authority and congressional approval. GOP Senator Specter himself has already scoffed at the defense.

    The (formerly) Supreme Court has already ruled in Hamdan that Geneva applies to Gitmo. Behind the Euphemedia smokescreen of tribunal tinkering lies the reality of the decision: Three Years of War Crimes had already been committed. Similarly, the lies about WMD that terrorized the nation into war are already "old news." There is no fig leaf left.




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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. yes, face to face is best




As we lobby for impeachment, we must recognize that a vast majority of the Reps and their staffs are clueless about the PURPOSE of impeachment (as are many folks out here). We've got to challenge them on the basics, in two-way dialog where we ask questions, elict their rationalizations, and challenge the dysfunctional and self-defeating belief system that dominates their insular beltway world.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. . . .and we don't need big numbers to do it VERY effectively. (nt)
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Luckyduck Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. great post!
:applause:
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. patty murray, wake up.
man i hate that answer. IMPEACH THEM BOTH, AND GONZO, TOO. throw in one or 2 rats from scotus, too.
nuremburg impeachment. repeat after me, nuremburg impeachment.
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Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. The "Bar" for Citizen tolerance and accountability for OUR Government
Edited on Mon Jan-29-07 01:00 PM by Massachusetts
has been set way to high. Its long overdue for impeachment proceedings in order to bring that "Bar" of tolerance and accountability back to a reasonable limit.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. James Clyburn was obviously not at the rally.
We're going to impeach him, James. You can be the Hesitators, we are the deciders.

:hi:
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Luckyduck Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. The are failing in their oath to uphold the constitution
It is not "premature"- it is way too late!

He should have been Impeached after the Downing Street Memo!

He should have been Impeached after he admitted to illegal wiretapping!

The time is NOW! BEFORE he attacks Iran!!!

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. You seem concerned
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Luckyduck Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. ya, slightly!
aren't you?
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FtWayneBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bush, Cheney, et. al.
is the impeachment ticket.
Starting with "allowing" (or causing) nine eleven to happen.
Who benefitted the most from that?
Them.

End of message.
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yeah, that's the ticket...
Impeach the entire mis-administration, and anyone with any dealings with the criminals. Hopefully, we can also impeach the RW judges imposed upon us by this illegal/immoral cabal.
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