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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 01:03 AM
Original message
Spy death linked to nuclear thefts
Spy death linked to nuclear thefts

Mark Townsend, Antony Barnett and Tom Parfitt
Sunday November 26, 2006
The Observer


Police block traffic outside the
Millennium hotel, Grosvenor Square

An investigation was under way last night into Russia's black market trade in radioactive materials amid concern that significant quantities of polonium 210, the substance that killed former spy Alexander Litvinenko, are being stolen from poorly protected Russian nuclear sites.

As British police drew up a list of witnesses for questioning over the death, experts warned that thefts from nuclear facilities in the former Soviet Union were a major problem.

A senior source at the United Nations nuclear inspectorate, the International Atomic Energy Agency, told The Observer he had no doubt that the killing of Litvinenko was an 'organised operation' which bore all the hallmarks of a foreign intelligence agency. The expert in radioactive materials said the ability to obtain polonium 210 and the knowledge needed to use it to kill Litvinenko meant that the attack could not have been carried out by a 'lone assassin'.

<snip>

Globally there have been more than 300 cases during the past four years where individuals have been caught trying to smuggle radioactive material. In 2005 there were 103 confirmed incidents of trafficking and other unauthorised activities involving nuclear and radioactive materials, many involving Russia.

<snip>

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1957279,00.html
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. We are so fucked...
One of the few figures available, on a database compiled by researchers at Stanford University in the US, revealed that about 40kg of weapons-usable uranium and plutonium were stolen from poorly protected nuclear facilities in the former Soviet Union between 1991 and 2002. Although the IAEA has no confirmation of polonium finding its way into the underground trade, there have been several unconfirmed reports of thefts.

In 1993 the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists reported that 10kg of polonium had disappeared from the Sarov, which produces the rare radioactive material and is described as Russia's own version of Los Alamos, the US government's nuclear research base in New Mexico.

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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. The 1993 theft is irrelevant in 2006...
since the half-life is only 138.4 days. That's ~34 half-lives, so if 10 kg (10,000,000,000 mg) were stolen in 1993, only about half a milligram would remain today, even if none of it had ever been used.

The fact that this guy got poisoned with it means that there is a recent source--or state sponsorship.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm more concerned about the weapons-usable uranium and plutonium. n/t
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Oh, definitely. That's a WAY bigger problem... (n/t)
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why would they steal this?
It's worrying about nuclear materials going missing --

just like it's worrying that the Bush administration left so many of Iraq's facilities unguarded,
just like it's worrying that Bush put nuclear bomb making documents on the internet,
just like it's worrying that weaponized anthrax went missing and ended up in envelopes sent to democratic party members and killed workers,
just it's worrying that meth dealers are stealing shit from Los Alamos...

But since you can purchase Polonium 210 from an internet supply house for 69.00 US and since it is used for anti-static brushes and the interior of satelites, I am not inclined to believe a government that claimed among other things:
that Saddam had attached nuclear warheads to drones,
that claimed Niger yellowcake
that claimed that David Kelly was a suicide (maybe Putin did that as well),
that believed for a time that you can mix fruit juice and hair gel together to form an explosive and that told tall tales about 'ricin' gas of all things...

The fact that the war criminal government in the UK is going 'big' on this horse shit more or less shows a level of contemptible desperation that is quite sickening. If you read some of this stuff, you'd think a BRITISH agent had been killed...not some KGB defector living London, who fancied himself a writer, who got paid back.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Wasn't he a naturalized citizen of the UK?
Say all you want about his former career, the UK should rightfully be up in arms about
its citizens being killed on its soil, no matter that the person had quit the KGB from
years before.

I'm sure that the USA would be a bit ruffled had a foreign service killed an american
citizen, and surely in such a case, people would describe that person as an american,
not 'some KGB defector'.

This story spins from the outset depending on sovereignty.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Wasn't he investigating the murder of journalists in Russia?
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think he was
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 04:22 AM by fujiyama
Just a few weeks ago I was listening to a story on NPR about a Russian journalist that was assassinated. She was found executed. She was extremely critical of Putin's handling of Chechnya, among other things.

Putin is obviously an authoritarian thug...and I think it's pretty clear that their intelligence agency or groups closely affiliated were responsible. It looks like good ole' Pootie Poot still has a lot of sway at the KGB, errr...FSB, as I believe it's now called.

Hell, didn't he even work with the notorious Stazi at some point? Putin is one scary motherfucka.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Don't forget the U.K. government lies about the Menzies killing
The innocent Brazilian immigrant gunned down by police in a subway station, I mean. The Blair government has shown it can't be trusted to tell the truth.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. That'd be for a microscopic speck...
Edited on Mon Nov-27-06 01:57 PM by benEzra
But since you can purchase Polonium 210 from an internet supply house for 69.00 US

That'd be for a microscopic speck, maybe even fractions of a microgram, i.e. something like a needle with the very tip dipped in a dilute Po-210 containing substance. Useful for classroom science experiments (i.e., petri-dish cloud chamber), but not nearly enough to do anything bad with.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. Gee, all this radioactive stuff pouring into the world's illicit markets, and
guess who the Bush Junta chose to out? Why, our own CIA WMD counter-proliferation network, headed by Valerie Plame--an expert in illicit weapons movement--who ran the Brewster-Jennings brass plate company that kept contact with covert agents around the globe, in the interests of everyone's safty. Outed her, and then outed her network--putting all of our counter-proliferation agents/contacts around the world at great risk of getting killed, and disabling all projects.

It's as if they WANT to keep the world in a state of terror, and are fostering nuke and other WMD accidents or terrorism.

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jordi_fanclub Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. Very "tropical" temperature in London...
"The expert in radioactive materials said the ability to obtain polonium 210
and the knowledge needed to use it to kill Litvinenko meant that..."


Meant that someone "must" quick correct the Wikipedia reference:
"... A great deal of energy is released by its decay with
a half a gram quickly reaching a temperature above 750 K..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Polonium-210

Just for curiosity: 750 ºK = 890 ºF = 476 ºC
No comments!... http://www.onlineconversions.com/temp.php

Oh... and I presume the guy had no burns too!
Da*n that Al Gore and the "stupid invention" of "THE INTERNETS".
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. That's for a half-a-gram mass...
which would emit so much radiation as to make the air around it glow blue due to the Cerenkov effect. And that's for a solid piece of polonium-210 metal, like a small ball bearing.

You wouldn't poison someone with a half-gram in the form of a solid metal sphere. You'd poison somebody with a milligram or less, dispersed in a solution or a powder, which wouldn't be hot.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Cherie: UK press is drinking at the last chance saloon
SNIP:

London - (Associated Mess): The Prime Monster's wife Cherry Bush QC has slammed British journalists as the scum of the earth after reports that the Daily Fascist and its sister paper The Fascist on Sunday were taking an unusually cynical line about possible accomplices to the radioactive poisoning of former Labour Party sperm donor and ex-KGB colonel Alexander Litvinenko.

Speaking before a sell-out crowd at a South London university campus, Mrs Blair was scathing in her rancour:

"Reports that my husband and I have been hosting fundraisers at the Last Chance Nuke Bar and Sushi Diner are an outrage", she said.

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s1i12326
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe they'll find where those missing Ukraining warheads are
Did they ever find thos eanyway? I haven't heard much about them since.
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Answered my own question again
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
12. Kick.
:kick:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. Nuclear poison: the deadly trade
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 08:27 AM by rodeodance



http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1957301,00.html

Nuclear poison: the deadly trade


The killing of Alexander Litvinenko with polonium 210 created headlines around the world. It also raised disturbing questions about Russian secret agents and a lethal and growing black market in radioactive waste

Sunday November 26, 2006
The Observer

It was hardly the stuff of international espionage. On the day Alexander Litvinenko's was fatally poisoned, the former Russian spy's last public meeting rarely deviated from football, Irish wolfhounds and, befitting his adopted country, the weather.

Around mid-afternoon, Litvinenko met Russian businessmen Dmitry Kovtun and Alexandrei Lugovei - who says that Litvinenko did not drink anything while they were with him. Later Kovtun left the lobby of the Millennium Hotel in London's Grosvenor Square and headed north to watch CSKA Moscow take on Arsenal. Litvinenko went home in the drizzle to Muswell Hill, his trip caught by grainy CCTV, which is still being studied by Scotland Yard last night.

Article continues








UP

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Do they even use polonium 210
for nuclear weapons and/or nuclear power plants?

Is this stuff government issue or are there other more accessable sources for this stuff?



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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. i read somewhere it is used for nuclear triggers. (nt)
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. It's pointless as a power source.
Half life is under 1/2 year. So if you have a kg of the stuff on Jan. 1, by Christmas that year you're down to 1/4 kg.

If they can isolate enough of the Po, they might be able to find out when it was refined.

Government issue, in most of the world; some research institutes in the west have the capacity, I'm sure.

There are also rumors that Iran's been making some; not verifiable, and the sources aren't always reliable. We also know that Russia's been helping with Iran's nuclear technology. It does raise the possibility that Iran paid for its Tor anti-aircraft system in a novel way. ;-)
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Another article said only 100 grams of this are made worldwide each year
I guess it is made in reactors. I don't know if it is useful, or just an exotic by-product. Either way, it is a strange choice for a poison. It would seem likely that someone is sending a message, by the choice of this poison.

It seems to imply government backing - it could be Russia, but it doesn't rule out the U.K. or U.S. either. If he was formerly a highly placed KGB officer all sorts of people might want him out of the way.

I am reminded of the weapons grade anthrax attacks in the U.S. shortly after Sept 11, 2001. That seemed to indicate government involvement too.

It also puts one in mind of Dr Kelly's claims of "many dark actors playing games".
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. This sounds like terrorism, individualized. A whole new dimension. n/t
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mahatmakanejeeves Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. (Barely related)
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 12:13 PM by mahatmakanejeeves
Many years ago, I bought a Staticmaster brush that I used to remove the static charge from the surface of phonograph records. It contained a small amount of polonium. I see that they are still available.

anti-static brush

Staticmaster brush

Google for record static polonium brush
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Do you need a refill?
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 01:06 PM by MrPrax
If you can't get access to the most secure high-level top secret 'scary' nuclear facilities, you can always order it off the internet from United Nuclear for 69.00 US a .1 iCu -- that's more than enough to poison lots of enemies!! or re-dust your anti-static brushes.

(Psst...made me laugh because I am of 'that age' where we proudly whisked our vinyl records with anti-static guns, brushes, wands, etc in the endless battle of the 'static' crackling noise picked up by that tiny little diamond microphone on the end of a stick (MM? or MC? DD? or BD? 'noise to rumble' ratio?)...those were the days...parties were particularly fun..."could you guys dance more in the OTHER room, you're making the needle skip")

This whole thing sounds just like the 'exploding liquid' bullshit. The media screeched that one for days, before reports trickled out that it was impossible, if not an outright, fabrication.

Yeah...Lucozade and hair gel equals a weapon of mass destruction? A lot of this is a repeat -- the British government trotted out all this stuff during the 90s when the animal liberation movmement was more active and doing 'terrorism'....exploding lucozade bottles (animal testing), contaminated hair products like O'real hair gel (animal testing), fear of using radioactives in Mars bars , etc etc

Same fear factory shit over and over again...there is always an enemy that manages to outfox us momentarily before we unhatch their fiendish plots.

The press on this event have constantly compared it to James Bond. Yeah it is like James Bond...a shadowy super villian who, while managing to amass a spectacular arsenel of capital, stealth, manpower and doomsday weapons, but manages to screw up on a point of personal greed or defect. It is this defect, this ambition, which allows us to seize the moment and dash their plans for world domination.

Like James Bond, they never really catch Blofeld...
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mahatmakanejeeves Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. MM? or MC? DD? or BD?
Moving magnet, belt drive.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Haha...
moving coil, direct drive

still got one!

(Never could afford anything more exotic than a Grado or Steintron. At least they were better than a Shure cartridge from radio shack ;-)
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