Bushies keen on Dean as W's ideal foe

[ModerateMiddle]

http://www.nydailynews.com/12-10-2003/news/politics/story/144493p-127803c.html

Bushies keen on Dean
as W's ideal foe

By THOMAS M. DeFRANK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF

WASHINGTON - White House political strategists believe Howard Dean has a hammerlock on the 2004 Democratic nomination - and they're trying hard not to gloat about it.
Senior Bush political managers have been ordered to curb their cockiness but many of them privately say President Bush has drawn the opponent of his dreams in Dean - a left-leaning Democrat they contend can be tarred as a latter-day George McGovern.

"The best thing Bush has going for him is that Dean is a weak Michael Dukakis," a key Bush official told the Daily News. "Dukakis won 10 states. Unless things turn very bad for Bush, I don't see Dean winning more than five."

The source concedes New York and California to Dean, and presumably his home state of Vermont, but does not spell out where else the Democrat could win.

more at link

[AWD]

1. This from the same people....

...that brought you these classics

-Iraq has WMD
-We will get OBL dead or alive
-NYC will get 40 billion dollars to help after 9/11
-I'm a uniter, not a divider
-I don't believe in nation-building
-Saddam and al Qaeda are working together
-Iraq bought yellowcake from Niger

So if you think that Dean is what you want, Bush??? Cool. You've got him. You've been so great about being right all the time, why not try another.

Be careful what you ask for, Shrub........

[juancarlos]

48. Saddam and bin Laden are working together

did you miss the news reports about UBL sending his terrorists to Iraq? Of course it is now, not then.

[michaud]

81. HA HA HA

I know but is so great can you imagine 50 states. lol

Maybe its closer to a 52 dean 47 bush 1 other and about 330 maybe 350 electoral votes.

[Hawkeye-X]

2. The key Bush official is wrong

Many Coloradans I've spoken to are not quite pleased with *, and more and more Republicans are starting to come out against *, and at best, * will be lucky to get about 15-20M vs Dean's 70-80M votes plus all 50 states. Dean is not giving up a single state, and will make sure Texas goes to Dean, not *.

Hawkeye-X

[piece sine]

73. you must have KILLER weed, man!

I want whatever you're smoking! 80 million votes for Dean against 15 million for Bush. You gotta luv DU when you read stuff like that!

[alittlelark]

80. no shit.I want some!!!

Well, someday when I don't have young children in the house. I would love it if it were verdad.

[bemildred]

3. Bullshit. nt

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. On the Contrary, I Have ZERO Doubt Republicans Want to Run Against Dean

Out of the major candidates, anyway. That much is obvious to anyone watching closely, IMO.

The kicker is, we just have to prove them WRONG if Dean DOES win the nomination.

DTH

[bemildred]

33. Then they are fools.

He's going to kick their ass from here to Boise Idaho.
The comparisons with Carter and Clinton are well taken,
but Howard clearly has the bigger set of cojones. He will
win, among other things, because he's not afraid to lose.

IMHO. :-)

[SquireJons]

39. I agree completely

The RNC thinks that Dean is their softest target, but for the wrong reason. They think he will be easy to beat like Dukakas, but Mondale is a far better analogy for me. Dukakas couldn't talk or campaign his way out of a paper bag. He was hapless. Mondale, on the other hand was a marvelous campaigner and speaker. He just got creamed by the right-wing slander juggernaut. They will try to do that again.

What Dean needs to do, after he locks up the nomination is be smart. Wining the presidential election is completely different from winning the Democratic nomination. He must, not so much change his stripes, but add new ones. He must be forceful in his denunciations of Bush 43, AND show boundless optimism in America as God's chosen people.

I sure hope he can pull it off... but he will not be a Dukakas.

[SquireJons]

41. Dream Ticket

Dean/Clark would be hard to beat - and they know it. Dean/Graham wouldn't suck either.

[SaveElmer]

4. This is the same Karl Rove

Who predicted Bush would take 320 electoral votes in 2000. This is what he does. It's called misdirection, he is trying to get the opposition to do what he wants by advocating what they really do not want. He has a history of this. And, if we are going to let Karl Rove decide who our nominee is going to be, we might as well just close up shop

[bif]

6. Fuck you, you smug assholes!

Bring George on! gonna eat him alive. I'll just bet he won't debate Dean. Any takers?

[SquireJons]

44. Exactly!

Dean will eat him alive in a debate. He's articulate and forceful. Shrubs only hope is that Dean will boil over on TV. If he keeps his cool, and makes his points, Bush is sunk.

But, you know they are digging - digging - digging for dirt. Hope they don't find any. Or maybe they will steal Deans debate outline, like they did in 1980 and load Shrub up with one liners... watch out for that.

[Demeter]

59. Dean SHOULD boil over at Shrub

Then he would be the real voice of the American people!

[Rose Siding]

7. Their own pollsters say Dean can win

RE:
Election 2004: Why Dean Can Win, September 2003

A recent article by David Brooks left readers with the distinct impression that Republican pollsters are all of the opinion that Howard Dean cannot possibly beat George Bush. We regret that he didn’t check with us first, as it is our belief that Dean has the potential to be a formidable candidate who could give the President a very difficult race.

The conventional wisdom that has some Republicans giddy about a potential Dean candidacy is not only misguided, it is counterproductive. Writing off a candidate like Dean by selectively sorting statistical gobble-de-gook and mixing it into a broth of “empirical” sociological evidence ignores the political realities of our time.

Howard Dean can win because he believes in what he is saying, because he can semi-legitimately spin his record as Governor into one of fiscal conservatism, and because he comes across as if he actually cares about people. We don’t know what the issues will be 14 months from now. Perhaps the economy will be rolling and the President will be soaring. If that’s the case, no one can beat him.

But there is the potential for the economy to remain sluggish and stagnant and conditions in the Middle East are impossible to predict. Should these situations remain status quo or worsen, America will be looking for someone new, someone fresh, someone who can shake America out of the doldrums and reinvigorate the body politic. Dean would provide solutions and excitement where the other Democrats, while perhaps polished and attractive, are not as convincing because they don’t have the perceived conviction of a Howard Dean. more..............

http://www.moore-info.com/Poll_Updates/2004%20Election%20%20Why%20Dean%20can%20win%20Sept%2003.htm

They even chart it out on the page linked

[Gin]

8. Bring it on shrub.....you are going down.

gin

[DoveTurnedHawk]

9. This Was Meant for Public Consumption

Rove's comment was not.

Even if you take this article at face value, it concedes that Dean can only win if the economy tanks. I'm not rooting for that option.

DTH

[Rose Siding]

16. Hollering and cheering at a parade is private?

:silly:

WooHoo! More nydailynews stories! Yeah, that's what I want!!!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

18. I Don't Think He Expected to Be Reported, and

This was also well before Dean had emerged as the front-runner.

DTH

[Rose Siding]

21. Really?

Because working for POTUS makes your life so clandestine?

snip>
Then, Weiss said, Rove exhorted the marchers and the parade audience: " 'Come on, everybody! Go, Howard Dean!' "

http://www.sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/1624957.php

[DoveTurnedHawk]

22. We Never Read Stories ABOUT Rove

And unless you believe in conspiracy theories, Rove had no motive to express anything but his true opinion back at that stage in the campaign.

DTH

[Rose Siding]

27. 468 hits this morning

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Karl+Rove&sa=N&tab=wn

You really think that the chief political advisor in the most political WH in history, (I think even your candidtate alludes to that) doesn't calculate every public exchange about dems and who knows WHAT else? and that to think so is believing in "conspiracy theories?

Okay.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

29. This Was LONG Before Dean Was the Front-Runner

And Rove might be quoted in stories about the President; there aren't any stories ABOUT Rove, though. A quick skim of those Google stories didn't turn up any. He was a guy at a parade with a colleague, and there's no indication reporters were around. He cannot expect he's going to be overheard and reported on. That is too subtle even for someone like Rove.

The story is the same throughout the Republican ranks, except for the occasional story meant for public consumption. The bit in the article cited by this thread about Republicans trying to tamp down their obvious glee and enthusiasm is spot-on.

Once again, however, we just have to prove them wrong.

DTH

[Rose Siding]

31. You underestimate Rove

big mistake

[DoveTurnedHawk]

36. He's a Political Genius

But no one is that subtle, nor does it make ANY sense given that stage in the campaign.

But feel free to continue believing the Bushies are terrified of Howard Dean. If anything, YOU'RE the one underestimating them here.

DTH

[CounterCoulter]

38. Exactly

It's not like Nixon used his power to influence the 1972 Democratic Primary...er... wait... he did.

[SquireJons]

46. Rove?

He's screwed up so many times, the RNC would be fools to put their faith in him.

[janx]

49. Ed Gillespie? No worries; he'll toss everything to Rove.

.

[janx]

32. Exactly.

.

[headlouse]

45. actually if the economy truely improves...

no one can beat bush co.

[SquireJons]

50. Not True

While Americans are loath to take their heads out of the sand, there are 1001 skeletons in Shrubs closet. Any one of them could kill him.

[janx]

51. Not only that, but a LOT of people have lost a LOT

of money. They're not going to forget that, even if the economy comes around on its own merit.

Money and jobs, money and jobs. It's the Bush* legacy.

[Rose Siding]

52. Scrutinize whatever is reported as "improvement"

Job gains, at a much slower pace than promised, are for jobs inferior to those lost. And trickle down hasn't a prayer of improving education or healthcare. That is the debate Dems must frame.

[ozone_man]

58. It never recovered.

You don't have to root for it to fail, it is still failing and going to get considerably worse in 2004. Unless you think this jobless "recovery" is an indication of health. IMO, the stock market fought it's way up to the surface for a last gasp of air before it sinks for good (bear market rally). The Wall Street pumpers will try to spin it as the beginning of a bull market.

But I agree, that if the economy were to miraculously recover by then, it would make for a close contest. Not likely to happen. 3M+ jobs aren't going to miraculously appear in the next year.

[ariesgem]

66. Ya beat me to it!

I have that link bookmarked and was ready to post it.

If Dean wins the primaries, they know that Dean has NO FEAR and is going to be a fierce competitor. People seem to be concerned with Karl Rove but remember, *Bush has given Dean or any of our candidates for that matter, PLENTY of material to work with. I have complete confidence that if Dean wins the primaries, he'll be in the chimp's face in a New York minute to counter-attack.

In my humble opinion, Joe Trippi is the anti-Rove and will not pull any punches with campaign commercials calling Bush out at every instance.(I can't wait for those! :evilgrin:) They're not gonna know what hit them.

If Dean wins and puts Clark on the ticket they will be unstoppable!

[Tempest]

10. Terry McAuliffe said it best

"You know," DNC chair Terry McAuliffe told Democrats assembled in St. Paul Friday, "there are some who feel the Democrats should just throw in the towel right now. I even read the following just the other day by political commentator Tom Wicker: 'The real question is whether any Democrat can match George Bush's claim to be a proven Presidential figure, validated by war and victory. It won't be easy . . .' I also read: 'No political strategist in the country can see any way George Bush is not going to win and win big.' That came from Ed Rollins, a Republican political strategist. Sounds pretty dire, huh? Well, buck up - these were written in 1991."

http://www.andrewtobias.com/newcolumns/030623.html

[Parche]

11. NOT OVER YET

The voting has not even started and wont finish until spring
after the big primaries.
IT IS NOT OVER YET





JOHN KERRY PRESIDENT 2004

[jbioocode]

12. TAR AWAY BUSHIES !

PULLEN the rug from underneath the 
RATpublicans starts now !


I luv left leaning Democrats and 
George Mcgovern was a good man . 

[Demobrat]

13. It won't work, sorry.

They're really going to have to do better than these pathetic attempts to frighten away Dean's supporters. And proven, wartime president? Please. Even the most rabid Repukes are getting worried about that one.

[UpInArms]

14. here's something for the

*ies to chew upon

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47806-2003Dec8.html?referrer=emailarticle

But is Dean a credible alternative? Was Kansas State? Dean has run a terrific primary campaign, the most impressive since Carter in 1976. It's true that, unlike Carter (and Clinton), Dean is a Northeastern liberal. But he's no Dukakis. Does anyone expect Dean to be a patsy for a Bush assault, as the Massachusetts governor was?

...more...

[iam]

15. I know why Dean or whomever the nominee is will beat bush*.

It will be because me and thousands of others like the people here at the DU will be working phone banks and knocking on doors in the general election while conservatives spend money. This will take an all-out effort to defeat the evil in the White House. It must be done or our children will be fighting wars for years to come.

[robbedvoter]

28. Do not underestimate the damage you did to other potential voters

with your arrogance, attacks...By you, I mean Dean & many of his followers, not you personally. Do not expect much falling in line after: "I am the only anti-war candidate"

[headlouse]

47. what you're gonna vote for bush if dean gets nominated?

just cause you have a grudge because he said something stupid and self-aggrandizing. What presidential nominee hasn't done that?

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

54. If damage has been done,

then it has been done by all of the Democrats spewing hatred in this primary. There has been just as much arrogance and attacks on Dean (and his followers) as from Dean (and his followers). What has me worried is that if Dean wins the nomination, then all of the people who keep saying that he is unelectable will be less motivated to try and get him elected. Whoever our eventual candidate is, if he (she) loses then I'd say it was due in part to our own in-fighting, which can't be blamed on any one of our candidates.

[janx]

57. Part of the reason people are so charged up is that it's so

very important to get the Chimpster out. People disagree on the best way to do so, but most seem to realize the importance of that goal.

[Toxictoaster]

65. Exactly.

Too much infighting here that degrades into ninny-bitching and namecalling, rather than productive exchange. Unfortunately, that's the culture we're living in.

Sometimes I think there's some truth to the "self-destructive Democrat" stereotype. We find one or two opinions or qualities we don't like in a Dem nominee, then proceed to bash the crap out of them until the thugs don't have a tough job destroying what remains. "Ohhhh, this person or that will sell us out, Trojan Horse, he's just a thug in sheep's clothing, he's a liar, he won't release records A, B, and C..." Let's get our heads out of our posteriors people.

Those of you in long-term relationships know that there's always something you'd like to change. But your significant other is still better than a whole bunch of what's out there. And I'd bet $1K that he/she is better than Bush. We need to learn to see our slate of candidates the same way. Otherwise, vote for Nader and we'll start talking about 2008 after we lose 2004.

[Gin]

55. Booo!!!!! Hiss!!! to you.........I will vote for the Democratic nominee...

even if it's not Dean...and I will work for and support that person. We have to unite and get that thug out of our white house.
gin

[Sterling]

77. Grow up.

:nopity:

[Melodybe]

61. Thanks, it is always nice to read a good rally cry

[Doctor Pedantic]

17. So What?

First, this is meaningless. The Democrats desperately wanted Ronald Reagan to be the Republican nominee in 1980 because he was perceived as a very weak candidate against Carter. Oops.

Second, this is uninformed. Dean is being tarred as a "liberal" because of anti-Iraq-War stance, his support for gay rights, and his opposition to all of the Bush tax cuts. However, there are many areas where he's much more conservative-to-moderate: he's a deficit hawk, even if that means putting popular social programs on the bargaining table; he has a 100% rating from the NRA; he doesn't support gay marriage. It will be hard to pigeonhole him -- I frankly wish he were more liberal. As Dean has pointed out, he's being compared to both McGovern and Gingrich. That sounds pretty "centrist" to me.

Third, I'm not convinced the Republicans really believe this. I think there may be some reverse psychology here. As brilliant (in an evil sort of way) as Karl Rove is, if he really believed Dean is the weakest opponent, I don't know why he'd put that idea in Democrats' heads and try to steer them into picking a "stronger" candidate.

And fourth, if we're still in a quagmire in Iraq and millions of people are still out of work, there will be a strong anyone but Bush contingent, and people will care a lot less about Dean's "liberalism" or occasional misstatements than the strategists do.

[LeftIsBest]

76. You are right the repugs don't believe this crap...

They are shaking in their boots... there is no way to attack DEAN on any issues whatsoever because he is not liberal as they say and has a strong backing from the NRA. They will try to tarnish, smear and lie to create a perception that is "negative" to the average voter. They couldn't get Clinton and they won't get Dean. Best part is I think he's way better than Clinton. He is too attractive a candidate to people who are fed up with the constant lies, greed, racism and violence in the white house.

RESTORE INTEGRITY TO THE WHITE HOUSE MY ASS!!!

[0007]

19. When the smoke clears we'll see who gets the last laugh!

Anyone of the nine candidates can beat junior.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. That's one of the first shots taken in the propaganda war.

[robbedvoter]

26. Not a first shot by far. Earlier shots: ignoring all candidates while

boosting Dean. letting Dan get away with inconsistency while running others into the ground with the slightest perceived.invented inconsistency. You guys have not been through the shredder yet. I am afraid, Al Gore pushed you a bit closer to it. Feel what other candidates, supporters have been feeling so far.

[janx]

23. This is very transparent.

And desperate. Chimpy does NOT want to run against Dean.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

24. You're Badly Mistaken

We just have to prove them all wrong if Dean wins our nomination.

DTH

[janx]

30. DTH, the source of this tells me everything I need to know.

.

I guess Karl didn't yell it loudly enough on the Fourth of July.

[littlejoe]

25. There's an old saying,

that is appropriate in this case. "Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it!"

[joefree1]

37. Here's another

"If you have no enemies, it is a sign fortune has forgot you."
- Thomas Fuller (1608 - 1661)

The media sniping and the rethuglican carping over Dean and Gore reflects their fear and confusion of this grass roots tsunami.

I'm looking forward to seeing the incredulous looks on rethuglican faces when Dean matches and then beats the Smirk's campaign budget.

[Johnyawl]

34. Think 1980

At this stage of the 1980 campaign the Democrats were absolutely giddy with the idea of facing Ronald Reagan, an aging, former B actor who had been a devisive Governor.

A bad economy, a foriegn policy/security debacle, and Reagans flag waving cheerfulness hit a note that resonated with a good portion of the American public. And the Democrats got their ass kicked, and unexpectedly lost the Senate as well.

If Rove & co are sitting there counting on Dean to respond like McGovern in '72 or Dukakis in '88, they've already conceded any edge they might have had.

[fshrink]

35. Deep-throat would've said that about any other candidate.

Classic move. Do you seriously think anything mentioning the resident worried about an opponent would leak? Besides, when you control 95% of the media there are no leaks.

[realFedUp]

40. Love DUers citing rightwingnut media

to smear one of our own.

[Enraged_Ape]

42. I laugh out loud at this pathetic, obvious attempt at propaganda

Dean and/or Clark are their worst nightmare. Be prepared for the New York Times editorial about how Lieberman would have been the much better candidate.

There is now no doubt in my mind that the repugs are hosed in 2004, and they know it.

[janx]

43. The NYT might not, but the New York Post definitely will.

Or something to that effect.

I'm waiting to see more articles like this from more wingnut sources.

[pinto]

69. kick! n/t

[proud patriot]

53. Ha ! squirming repukes Ha! see sig line

[koopie57]

56. I think that their arrogance will

once again bite them in the a**. Hopefully they will be so arrogant they will allow an honest election this time. And if Dean does get the nomination, he will campaign hard and smart. Two things Bush can't do; he can't do anything hard and he is stupid as he**.

I liked what Gore said yesterday about not badmouthing the other candicates. I can't really recall the words, but my understanding was he was trying to get across that there is too much at stake to waste time fighting among ourselves. We need to keep hammering away at the important issues. I think all the negative energy needs to be turned into creating something positive. I think focusing on each candidates positives, let the best candicate win and then just work together. It might work??????

[Nashyra]

60. I live in a very Repuke area

Please do not discount what they are saying, take this very serious and come up with solutions to counter attack what the Repukes are going to try and do to Dean. My personal belief is that Clark would do better than Dean against * but the focus has to be on what are we as a party going to do to counter the challenges that are going to be thrown at Dean if he gets the nod. His Vietnam experience or non experience will be an issue, how can we ahead of time attack the * about his AWOL status so that the RNC shies away from making it the issue, remember we will NOT have the help of the press. By calling this BS and saying that the source says it all will not address the problem, remember our candidate won the popular vote and he won Florida and he is NOT sitting in the White House, that has to tell you something, and the fact that there was no public outcry because the SCOTUS appointed the President also tells you the press will not just be for the *, it will be actively working AGAINST us as a party. We need a plan to bury * sooner rather than later and our candidates have to acknowledge their achilles heel, come up with a plan and put it into effect, it will not go away by saying it is not true.

[killbotfactory]

62. And Bush is good for the environment!

BUSH IS FULL OF CRAP!
BUSH IS FULL OF CRAP!
BUSH IS FULL OF CRAP!
BUSH IS FULL OF CRAP!
Repeat until it sinks in.

[meow2u3]

63. America to Rove: Be careful what you wish for....

....You just might get it--in the neck!

[Ace R. Rubrum]

64. God's gift to George Bush

Last nite on the radio, Dick Morris referred to Dean as "God's Gift to George Bush". Assuming that Morris is now working for Bush, this means one of two things: Bush would love to run against Dean, or Bush fears Dean and is trying to play a mind game with the Democrats. My gut tells me Bush loves Dean, the northeast liberal with no ties to Big Labor.

[pinto]

67. What a poor attempt at (tabloid) propaganda

"curb their cockiness"
"left leaning Democrat"
"latter-day McGovern"
"weak Dukakis"

Gag me with a typesetter.

[janx]

70. And look at the related story headlines! :

"Dems feeling Gored"

"Bushies keen on Dean as W's ideal foe"

"Hil puts chill on Al's party plans"

"Zev Chafets: Dean outdances Rev. Al"

"Editorial: Dean endorsement Gores rivals"

[goforit]

68. I wouldn't laugh too hard WH......Dean will have the last laugh!!!

What a bunch of arrogant SOBs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[underpants]

71. Remember how SURE they were about how the war would end up?

Cakewalk
Throwing flowers
American flags

I wonder if they did this just because the like the sound of their own voices or if they really are believeing their own press clippings?

[RPG-7]

72. right..

This isn't an intentional leak, it's a scoop that the New York Daily News (the absolute premiere investigative paper) bravely dug up. :eyes:

Give me a break.

[truthisfreedom]

74. we'll be seeing a lot of this kind of propaganda. that's all bushco is

about. propaganda and propagenda.

[sendero]

75. I can hardly wait...

... until Mr. Dean rips these morons a new a**hole.

Guess what chumps, you can skate through biz school but to become a doctor in this country you still have to be intelligent and hard-working.

So far, Dean has already done what was claimed "impossible". I'm betting he will continue to make the conventional wisdom bearers eat humble pie.

[stickdog]

78. Of course they are! And they're letting us know this in advance because

they want to make sure no Dems wise up before it's too late!

[Selwynn]

79. Yup - its Bush's election to LOSE now...

[farmboxer]

82. Bush Makes Alfred E. Newman Look Like Albert Einstein!

Bush is an idiot! What else can I say?!

Well, I could say that Bush went AWOL, became a deserter, which is treason! www.awolbush.com

Tell the truth about Bush boy! He is a damned deserter!

Never forget the damned crooked Republican manufactured and programmed voting machines! Yell it out! Scream it out! I am tired of it! Democrats only need to tell the truth, Republicans need to lie like Hell!

The truth to a Republican is like a cross to a vampire!

[Merlin]

83. This is from the same crowd that thought Iraq would be a cakewalk.

They truly believed the people would strew roses in our path after we conquered their country. They thought we'd wave our magic Bush wand and presto, democracy would appear. They thought it would cause a Domino reaction all across the middle east. And any countries that didn't cave to democracy, we'd just invade.

On all of these counts they were unfathomably, ignominiously, freaking

Wrong!