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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 02:58 PM
Original message
Kenneth Lay's Conviction Erased From Record
Edited on Tue Oct-17-06 03:03 PM by Newsjock
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

A federal judge in Houston this afternoon wiped away the fraud and conspiracy conviction of Kenneth L. Lay, the Enron Corp. founder who died of heart disease in July, bowing to decades of legal precedent but frustrating government attempts to seize nearly $44 million from his estate.

The ruling worried employees and investors who lost billions of dollars when the Houston energy trading company filed for bankruptcy protection in December 2001. It also came weeks after Congress recessed for the November elections without acting on a last-ditch Justice Department proposal that would have changed the law to allow prosecutors to seize millions in investments and other assets that Lay controlled.

With the judge's order, Lay's conviction on 10 criminal charges will be erased from the record. "The indictment against Kenneth L. Lay is dismissed," U.S. District Judge Simeon T. Lake III wrote in a spare, 13-page order.
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. what an insult to all of those who suffered because of his crimes.
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wholetruth00 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. This is what you get with Republicans in charge of Congress and courts.
I hope that the people who have been victimized will not let this rest and go to the polls and vote their outrage. In America, corporate criminals are regarded as heros by the elite.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. So, his heirs keep his ill-gotten gains?
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democraticinsurgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No, he does.
They'll be moved to his new palace in Paraguay.

;-)
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Paraguay?
Isn't that still just a little north of where he actually is?
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Why? Do you suspect he's in Argentina?
;)
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
46. I think you are thinking of Purgatory. n/t
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 05:08 AM by Freedom_from_Chains
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. I was wondering about that newly purchased BushLand in Paraguay...
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yup
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. Likely not. Civil suits are still very much in play (nt)
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Well there is a hopeful notion
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keopeli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Be rich, steal BILLIONS, and live in luxury - the story of Ken Lay
Anyone who thinks this schmuck is note alive is not breathing in enough oxygen.
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Nictuku Donating Member (907 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I didn't believe it for a milisecond!
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Due process protects even the most vile.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is beyond comprehension
At least to my mind.

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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. Oh isn't THAT just Fucking Cute?
I just can't imagine who would ever be behind that one. :eyes:

:sarcasm:
Sick, sick, sick! This Administration is just Fucking Sick! :argh:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. This Is Another Spot In Dire Need of Fixing
When the Takeover/Takeback is underway, this loophole will have to be plugged, along with some Constitutional issues.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. You want to fuck with due process and decades of legal precendent
To get one guy?

This isn't a loophole. Its a cornerstone of our legal system.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I'd Rather Have Habeus Corpus Back
This isn't a cornerstone, this is a copout.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. "this is a copout."
The point is that someone is not truly convicted until they have exhausted their appeals process.

I am disbelief that you would throw away our due process rights to get a dead man.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. That Dead Man Got A Lot of Other People First
and there isn't a whole lot of dispute about it. This is to get the ill-gotten goods back.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yes, he is vile scum. But our laws protect even vile scum.
This does nothing to prevent civil suits after his estate from going forward.

It may not be as easy as if they had the conviction but they are still going to happen.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. What if he pops up tomorrow and says, "hey, I'm alive!"?
Would he be off scot free?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. no
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. But he's already been tried once, hasn't he?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I'm fairly certain they could reinstate the verdict
if they found it was obtained through fraud
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Agreed
It really sucks, but that's the way it goes. There will be civil suits by those who were injured so it ain't over.
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Sad4world Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. Protection for Shrub
This is just another:

Shrub was an enabler in the crimes of Lay and this will help protect Shrub from any prosecution.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. Gee, What A "Deterrent" Our Legal System Is
Edited on Tue Oct-17-06 03:21 PM by Beetwasher
It's more like an advertisement to COMMIT fraud actually. Commit fraud for billions, buy off politicians, fake your own death and keep all the money. Lovely.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ken Lay is not dead.
You can bet your bippy on it. It's just another republicon con job.

Helps to have friends like Georgie AWOL Bush who has stolen a High Office...

Repeat: Ken Lay is not dead. He is living the high life somewhere in the lap of republicon luxury.
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LordLovesAWorkingMan Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. "You can bet your sweet bippy"
somehow pales in comparison to actual proof. Do you have any?

I think Ken Lay is deceased.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. So sorry. As of today you may no longer think what you like
The republicons have trashed habeas corpus and endorsed wholesale torture, thereby debasing and disgracing the once wonderful land of liberty, the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

And no doubt Key Lay approves wherever he is hiding.
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LordLovesAWorkingMan Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Nice Three Card Monte there
but I think the guy is dead. You can make reference to the Magna Carta for all I care, but I think the guy is dead.

And I will think what I like until I die, thanks.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
40. My suspicions tell me it's one of two things: either he decided to kill
himself (to spare the long-suffering wifey and leave her with a nice consolation prize, not to mention leaving his record "clear" - OR he faked his own death and set up shop on the Grand Caymans or someplace (Paraguay maybe?) to wait it out til the heat dies down, and then wifey can join him. The key now will be to watch where SHE goes, and what she does from here on. If she decides to pull up stakes and leave the country, I think our worst suspicions will be confirmed.

Either way, it's just a LITTLE TOO CONVENIENT, no?
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. With OJ, the 'harmed' sued.
He wasn't guilty criminally, yet he's got creditors knockin' due to civil judgments against him.

With Lay, he's was convicted, yet died (so authorities claim), so his conviction is now wiped from the record, essentially putting him in the same generalized category as OJ Simpson.

I guess it's now up to employees and investors to civil sue his estate and heirs for there to be any logistical justice to this injustice. Yet, it would appear there is one structural difference between OJ and Lay, OJ had a legal record of his criminal innocence, whereas Lay has no record of anything, for it now has been erased. Yet we are reminded regularly of the people who are convinced OJ was guilty even as he was found 'not guilty', yet will we continue to hear vile regarding Lay?

As I'm thinking of this, if there is any chance that Lay's death was faked by his friends in high places, then the next bit of justice can only be served by insuring that his estate has nothing for him to live on. Whether his death was faked or not, the employees and workers did not deserve the rooking they got.

Will there be any further recourse for them? Why does our government continue to allow common citizens to be preyed upon by the rich people hiding behind layers of corporate shells who still have financial interests even though Lay is 'supposedly' dead.

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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. ...
"Why does our government continue to allow common citizens to be preyed upon by the rich people hiding behind layers of corporate shells who still have financial interests even though Lay is 'supposedly' dead."

because our government is put into power by those people.

The question should be, "why do we allow it". Ask the republican voters. I try not to allow it.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
21. Even in death, he cheated people
With, of course, the collaboration of the U.S. government.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. He should have been executed as soon as he was found guilty
Preferably by public hanging in downtown Houston.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. So in death, he evades justice?
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LordLovesAWorkingMan Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Yes, what a wily devil he is.
I mean, DYING to escape justice. No flies on him.

:eyes:
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
36. that is sickening....
:grr:

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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
39. this only addresses the criminal charges
does it affect the civil
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
42. I would say it's unbelievable...
but in this country, it's ENTIRELY believable. Insane times.
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lithiumbomb Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. i'm surprised at the responses here
I thought one of our main platforms was due process for everyone. How can we protest the lack of due process and rights for "enemy combatants" yet condem the due process given to Ken Lay? Everyone has a right to appeal, and since he died he obviously cannot appeal. So the conviction cannot stand. Yes it's a shame that he didn't rot in jail like he deserved, but those are the breaks.
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
44. How convenient, while he relaxes somewhere in Europe
sorry I don't by this bullshit of how he conveniently died, had a quickie closed casket funeral and his story just went away.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
45. Ken Lay is not dead and he is hiding
Bush helped him escape and he will be found

Bush hiding criminals the ultimate abuse of power
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