NYT: Gay Marriage Losing Punch as Ballot Issue

[Pirate Smile]

Gay Marriage Losing Punch as Ballot Issue

By KIRK JOHNSON
Published: October 14, 2006

DENVER, Oct. 13 — The debate over same-sex marriage was a black-or-white proposition two years ago when voters in 11 states barred gay couples from marrying.

But this year shades of gray are everywhere, as eight more states consider similar ballot measures. Some of the proposed bans are struggling in the polls, and the issue of same-sex marriage itself has largely failed to rouse conservative voters.

In some cases, other issues, like the war in Iraq and ethics in Washington, have seized voters’ attention. But the biggest change, people on both sides of the issue say, is that supporters of same-sex marriage this year are likely to be as mobilized as the opponents.

The social conservatives, who focused on marriage in 2004 and helped President Bush gain re-election in some hard-fought states in the Midwest, have been offset by equally committed and organized opposition. Slick advertising, paid staff and get-out-the-vote drives have become a two-way street.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/14/us/politics/14marriage.html?hp&ex=1160798400&en=c9d7c12e4ee24908&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[elocs]

1. Well I sure hope so.

We have one on the ballot here in Wisconsin to change our state constitution concerning gay marriage.

[goddess40]

2. I hope it dies in Wisconsin

Since when has hate become an American value? And why have so many 'christians' jumped on board?

[Bill McBlueState]

26. why have Christians jumped on board?

It's probably because for 2000 years, the overwhelming majority of Christian theologians have interpreted passages in Leviticus and Romans as condemnations of homosexuality. So it's unfortunate, but not all that surprising, that conservative Christians in any society are opposed to equal rights for gay people.

In the twenty-first century, people are finally beginning to get past the idea of using ancient texts to deny equal rights to gay people. But those ancient texts carry a lot of weight with some.

[goddess40]

29. oh yeah they're on board with their heads up their asses

pretending it isn't about hate and feeling superior or for that matter judging people which I believe the bible says is gods job.

[rodeodance]

3. our RED legislature in WI is making it a big issue!!---

[Warpy]

4. That's because gays got married in a few states

and straight marriages did NOT break up at an increased rate, husbands and fathers did NOT desert their families for a male mate,churches that pushed homophobia were NOT forced to marry gay couples, the sky did not fall, and the world as we know it didn't end. Hell, it didn't even change.

In other words, all the lies were proven false by simple experience.

Extending the civil contract of marriage to all consenting adults is an idea whose time has come. Some states in the midwest and deep south may cling to their institutionalized homophobia, but eventually a court case will force even them to recognize all marriages.

How do I know? I lived through the dying gasp of the Jim Crow era when inter racial marriages were deplored and unrecognized in the south. This is no different. They just substituted a few words in those old speeches.

[Bill McBlueState]

27. exactly

Look what's happened in Massachusetts since equal marriage became a reality: the state's finances are in the black, the legislature got even more progressive, and we're about to flush the Republicans out of the governor's office.

For everyone except newly-married gay couples, life has gone on exactly as before.

[Jersey Ginny]

5. NJ will have a court decision by 10/23

While I hope that the NJ Supreme Court affirms marriage equality, and the last poll in NJ indicated that 57% of NJ residents favor marriage equality, I worry about an affirmative decision being used nationally to bring out the "nuts" as Karl Rove says. Right now I'd say the decision is 55%-45% in favor of a likely win for marriage equality in NJ.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

10. Well, Corzine has said that he won't allow the legislature to overturn

it if the court rules in favor gay marriage.

[Ignacio Upton]

18. The cynical part of me hopes they uphold any such ban

While a majority of New Jerseyans may support gay marriage, such a ruling from the NJ Supreme Court will only serve to energize the GOP in close races.

[Erika]

6. If the GOP wants to save traditional marriages: Outlaw divorce

Divorce has harmed this society not gay unions/marriages.

When I've suggested they try to ban divorce, there is total silence.

[patrice]

8. They shouldn't outlaw divorce, but they should make it much harder to get.

Or at least slow it down.

There should be more of an effort to get people stop getting married with "If it doesn't work out, I can always get a divorce" in the back of their minds.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

11. I can't agree with that because I've known people who have NEEDED to

get out of marriages FAST.

[patrice]

13. Yes, I was thinking about that while I was writing that.

There's never a one-size-fits-all. There needs to be some way of differentiating between those who need divorce and those who don't.

No, none of that makes any sense. Divorce should be easy. Getting married should be harder?

What is really needed: Everyone needs to be more honest with themselves and others.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

16. That, I can agree with.

:thumbsup:

[True_Blue]

15. They should make it harder to get married

It's a lot easier to get married than it is to get divorced.

[patrice]

24. Yeah, it could be something like:

Someone interviews prospective bride and groom separately asking them very specific questions about money management, sex, children, religion etc. Then interviews them together so they can compare answers. Then asks them about the differences in their answers. Then rates them on how difficult their marriage will likely be. I don't know what they'd do after that, but at least they'd be informed.

Maybe people who score high on the difficulty scale would have to wait longer and then be interviewed again.

Why should a marriage license be any easier than any other license?

[yellowcanine]

17. Amish hardly ever divorce. It everyone joined the Amish, the divorce rate

would go way down. Just a thought.

[TygrBright]

7. From their presses to God's ear... n/t

[w4rma]

9. Good. (nt)

[Erika]

12. My point is that divorce is of more harm to traditional marriage

than is any gay union or marriage. Look at the families hurt.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

20. Not getting divorced when you should probably hurts way more families.

My mom's parents stayed together "for the sake of the kids." All three of them agree that their lives would have been much better had their parents gotten divorced.

Two dysfunctional married assholes hurt families more than divorces, in my opinion.

[Sirveri]

28. Why not just let people do what they want.

You want a divorce, go for it. You want to get married go for it. You're gay, black, ethnic minority of the day, whatever. Do what you want, but if things go sour because of YOUR choices, take some personal responsibility for your own actions before you ask for help or a bail out.

[bleedingheart]

14. Hunger does that to folks...

[Zhade]

19. Sounds like a great time to take a stand for equality under the law...

...for us queer taxpaying citizens.

So! What candidates will support our rights, both now and in 2008?

[wholetruth00]

21. It's because the closeted gay political operatives are no longer pushing

it since the news of the hypocrisy on the hill has come out concerning gays in power there. Now all that needs to be done is an expose on the number of mistresses of Republican Congressmen and senators and hill staffers have had abortions. That will rid the nation of two of the most divisive issues of the day.

[Beetwasher]

22. What's That Saying About Too Many Trips To The Well?

Yadda yadda and HA HA!

[blondeatlast]

23. AZ has an anti-consenting adult marriage proposition on the ballot

that seems to be dying a slow death.

I will be happy to put it out of its misery completely on 11/7.

[sofa king]

25. I guess it's back to abortion.

And I hope it goes there. Why? Because it occurs to me that thanks to the advent of Total Information Awareness, peoples' medical records are now much more easy to obtain. As soon as the goons go back to that old saw, we'll have huge lists of Republicans who have either had or have funded abortions. It will be fun watching Republicans further erode their own power base by forcing each other to resign.