Oldest Cuban dead at 126

[Judi Lynn]

Oldest Cuban dead at 126
5 minutes ago

HAVANA (Reuters) - Benito Martinez Abrogan, Cuba's oldest person and star of the government's efforts to promote healthy lives for its oldest citizens, died on Wednesday at the age of 126.

"He died this afternoon. He had been in intensive care, but old age was the main problem," said an official at Ciego de Avila Hospital in central Cuba.

Martinez, who attributed his longevity to a healthy diet of fresh vegetables, some meat and only occasional consumption of alcohol, was born in Haiti in 1880 and migrated to Cuba to work on sugar cane plantations in 1925, according to his Cuban documents.

There was no definitive proof of his age as he had no birth certificate.

The toothless centenarian was the star attraction of Cuba's 120-Club, a group formed by President Fidel Castro's personal physician Eugenio Selman to promote healthy lives for Cuba's elderly.
(snip/...)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061011/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_cuba_oldest

[ronnykmarshall]

1. See? SEE???

The commie system killed him!!

[Cooley Hurd]

4. It took a while, but it CAUGHT UP WITH HIM!

:rofl:

[Lautremont]

2. This demonstrates conclusively that the over-120 health program

is a disasterous failure, and that by extension, Castro is a monster.

[eleny]

3. A member of Cuba's "120 Club" - amazing!

:headbang:

[SteppingRazor]

5. Oh brother...

All you need to know about this story is this:

"There was no definitive proof of his age as he had no birth certificate."

The oldest person ever lived to 122, and even that one's a bit iffy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment

In other words, I call bullshit.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Yup.

Surely every Cuban baby in 1880 was issued a birth certificate, and every certificate was laminated to protect it for a 126 years.

[SteppingRazor]

9. There'd be at least some record...

The next oldest to the one I mentioned, Shigechiyo Izumi, at least could offer census records from the 1800s, and he lived the same sort of rural life that this one did

[Xithras]

11. No, government birth records are relatively recent.

Even in the US, an industrialized nation, the regular issuance of formal birth certificates didn't start up until 1900, and in more rural areas they were uncommon into the early 1950's. For the most part, the issuance of birth certificates fairly well corresponds with the introduction of hospitals as birthing sites. Prior to the 1920's, most women delivered in their homes, and very few bothered to get certificates (they had little real value in the days before drivers licenses, social security, or modern identity theft). Well educated rural dwellers might get one, but the less educated were more likely to get some sort of baptismal certificate from their church. If their family didn't attend church, it's unlikely that any record of the birth would have been created.

And that's in the U.S. Cuba, which existed as a poor colony at that time, would have been a bit behind that curve.

Anybody who has ever done genealogy research has run into this problem many times. There are huge branches of my family that simply vanish in Europe and the U.S. about a century ago simply because they were poor and didn't attend church. From a paperwork standpoint, it's as if they didn't exist. Many of the names that ARE filled in exist only because they lived long enough to register for social security, they happened to serve in a war and had their personal info recorded on their draft papers, or their names have been found in old family Bibles or on tombstones in the cemetaries frequented by the family. Solid birth and death data only exists pre-1900 for the more religious branches of my ancestors simply because the churches always kept accurate birth and death records.

[Judi Lynn]

12. Excellent comments. I might add this man was born in Haiti before

moving to Cuba to work on the plantation.

His chances of having a birth certificate to bring with him from an even poorer country to work in the sugar cane fields in Cuba narrow considerably.

It would stand to reason a medical doctor could make a decent educated guess.

[SteppingRazor]

16. So, with the absence of any evidence...

and given that only one other person in all of recorded human history has lived past 120, you're willing to believe this ... why?

[Judi Lynn]

18. Apparently you didn't stir yourself to read comments by Xithras.

Nor did you set aside a moment to think it over. Record keeping has been very spotty until quite recently.

There are tons of people coming from poor circumstances, like the man's in the article, his having been born in Haiti, who were born at home.

It would do you a world of good to take time to mull things over, and steer clear of trying to do combat before grasping the elements of the situation.

There's a DU'er from Kansas who posts at DU a great deal, whose mother was born in Missouri, and she has mentioned that her mother is very upset because if Missouri decides to force voters to show identity cards, she's screwed, as she never had a birth certificate, having been born at home, and this will keep her from voting.

THAT lady is a traditional American.

IF you read the post above, you'll see this point was already made very successfully there.

Don't even think of trying to badger me.

[SteppingRazor]

19. I'm not trying to badger. And I've read every post responding to mine...

but you didn't answer my question. Xithras' post simply pointed out that gov't records are relatively new. I'll even acquiesce to that point.

So, absent any real evidence that this guy actually lived to the unblelievable age of 126, why would you choose to believe it? The claim just doesn't hold water for me.

[Judi Lynn]

20. You know what? I posted the original article. I did NOT certify it

as being truthful beyond all doubt. Did you see anything I wrote which would lead you to conclude I'm going to fight to the death over something like this? You simply must live in a much different zone from the one I call earth.

Why attack me over the article?

What evidence do you have to dispute it?

If you don't have anything substantial, check it in.

[SteppingRazor]

25. Yes, I agree...

I certainly must live in a different zone than the one you call earth.

And I agree -- it's not worth arguing about.

:toast:

[Threedifferentones]

21. You're misunderstanding his point

Since there were no birth certificates back then, we have only the word of this man and the Cuban government to tell us that he was actually 126. I think they are lying, but of course we have no way to tell.

[Ecumenist]

14. That's true....

My mother was born in 1942 in rural Texas, (Rice Texas) and her birth certificate was burned in a fire that took out the book where it was kept, (handwritten). She was also born at my greatgrandparent's home, delivered by her grandmother and her aunts. My grandmother had to give an affidavit for her to prove her identity and her birth in the late 1980's for a position she was being offered in at a defense contractor here in northern California.

[superconnected]

27. It depends, as my family genealogist I have

birth certificates dating back to 1875. all of my relatives have birthcertifictes back to then, as well as marked graves when they died. BUT, there are many familys that were "country" families in the US that didn't register the kids birth and buried their dead in unmarked graves so there's not even proof of death or a grave.

Birth records date back hundreds of years in england by the way and they were commonly recorded at the start of the new world and up to now. They aren't by any means a "NEW" practice.

What's new is that now it's a requirement and not a mere formality.

In cuba, I would expect people not to always have them. Even here in the US I have a problem with a minnesota courthouse that burned down destroying some of my familys records back in the mid 1800's that would have documented their influenza deaths. So even if a country is stable and collects records, things happen.

[Xithras]

28. It really depends on the origins of your family.

My English ancestry is certainly some of the best documented in my family tree, and we have traced one Cumberland branch all the way back to the mid-1400's. The British monarchs and the Church were sticklers on the subject...they wanted to make sure that everyone was paying their tithes and taxes! When England founded the colonies, the practice followed them here and did remain well practiced among the "civilized" English settlers in the more urbanized regions.

But most American's AREN'T of English descent. I'm a mutt, but the majority of my ancestry is Scot/Irish and German. Birth records are rare there. My wife's family, predominantly German and Native American, is almost completely undocumented before 1925. And if your ancestors are from eastern Europe? Fugghedaboutit.

[Judi Lynn]

7. Good work, Sherlock.

A lot of very old people have no birth certificate, including many in the U.S.

As the article itself states, there is no positive proof.

[SteppingRazor]

8. So why believe something that's so incredible? n/t

[0007]

10. Now I know why they made 'ya boss......LOL!

[Katzenjammer]

23. No, Jeanne Calment's age was NOT "a bit iffy", it's completely documented

France has had very good record-keeping for a long time. From the wiki article you point to: "Her lifespan has been thoroughly documented by scientific study; more records have been produced to verify her age than for any other case"

[pitohui]

13. those damn vegetables

they'll do you in every time! :-)

[SteppingRazor]

17. It wasn't the veggies. It was the coffee, cigars and sex!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061004/od_afp/afplifestylecubahealth_061004200202

:evilgrin:

[Judi Lynn]

15. From a Cuban source: Oldest Cuban Dies at 126

Oldest Cuban Dies at 126

Havana, Oct 11 (Prensa Latina) Benito Martínez Abogán, the oldest man in Cuba, died today in Ciego de Avila, at the age of 126, it was officially reported here.

Nicknamed Avion (Airplane), Benito suffered during the last days a chronic heart deficiency, together with an old-age respiratory infection, for which he was sent to the hospital.

Funeral services will be held at the Gerontologic Center Camilo Cienfuegos of this central city, where he spent the last two years under specialized geriatric care.

Benito was born on June 19, 1880 in a place of the Caballones mountain, in Haiti, according to his identification card as permanent resident in Cuba, where he arrived in 1925 looking for work and a better life, like many thousands of Haitians and other immigrants from the neighboring Caribbean islands.
(snip/...)

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7BC3F0692D-6AC1-416A-B8E7-BED79442FB6B%7D)&language=EN

[BuelahWitch]

22. What I wanna know is how many people in the 120 club?

Are there that many people over 120 years old??

[Katzenjammer]

24. It's a club with the GOAL of 120 years

Apparently any centenarian can join it. The goal is that its members reach 120.

[Judi Lynn]

26. 'World's oldest man' dies in Cuba

Last Updated: Thursday, 12 October 2006, 06:30 GMT 07:30 UK

'World's oldest man' dies in Cuba
By Stephen Gibbs
BBC News, Havana

A Cuban man who claimed to be the oldest person in the world has died in hospital at what he believed was the age of 126.
(snip)

Until his last months, he led a relatively active life, tending plants outside his one-bedroom house, visiting the local old people's home and being more than happy to demonstrate that being 120-plus did not mean you could not dance.
(snip)

His neighbours remember the man with the broad toothless grin as always being very old.

He never married, something which together with a life of hard work, fresh vegetables, not too many cigars and little alcohol, he attributed to being the secret of a long life.

Mr Martinez was the leading light of Cuba's 120 club, an organisation which aims to promote healthy living for the elderly.

The Cuban government, which takes great pride in the fact that the country's average life expectancy is 77 years, the same as the most developed nations, tried but failed to uncover baptism records or a birth certificate in Haiti.

For that reason Benito Martinez was never officially the world's oldest man. But he died convinced that he was.
(snip/)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6042982.stm

[toopers]

29. Just cut off a limb . . .

and count the rings!