Clark hints he would explore Cuba ties

[Judi Lynn]

Posted on Wed, Dec. 03, 2003

CAMPAIGN 2004
Clark hints he would explore Cuba ties
Though not calling for an end to the embargo, Democratic hopeful Wesley Clark says the U.S. should `help the Cuban people.'
BY PETER WALLSTEN
[email protected]

As his leading rivals for president hone positions on Cuba policy that appease South Florida's powerful exile bloc, retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark is gaining notice for a divergent approach: a willingness to discuss easing the decades-long trade embargo against the island and its dictator.

Clark stops short of saying he would lift sanctions, but his nuanced responses to reporters, exile leaders and even a questioner at a nationally televised debate last month in Boston leave little doubt that a Clark administration could well do more than any other in 40 years to build ties with Fidel Castro's government.

''In general embargoes normally, usually, they don't work, and they certainly haven't worked in the case of Cuba as far as ending the Castro regime,'' Clark told reporters Monday during a visit to South Florida. ``We don't want to give a gift to Fidel Castro. But we do want to help the Cuban people achieve the same rights as everybody else in this hemisphere.''

Clark, the former supreme allied commander of NATO who led the Kosovo war and former chief of the U.S. Southern Command overseeing military operations in the Caribbean and Latin America, also frequently compares the situation in Cuba with communism in Eastern Europe -- arguing that engagement, rather than isolation, paved the way for democracy. (snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/7402949.htm

[ramapo]

1. Too intelligent and rational

to be elected President

[chromotone]

30. To paraphrase Adlai Stevenson...

He still needs a majority to win...

(well, in theory perhaps)

[La_Serpiente]

2. He's taking a step in the right direction

we should have lifted those sanctions a long time ago. I was hoping other candidates would scrap their embargo policies, but they are not.

We must put forward a compromise with Castro. If he releases the political prisoners in his prisons, then we will open up diplomatic relations with him.

[Minstrel Boy]

7. How about if Castro puts forward a compromise,

that he'll open up diplomatic relations with the US, if it gives the Gitmo abductees due process and the rights of the Geneva Convention?

:shrug:

[mobuto]

20. ???

While I'm no fan of Mr. Castro, its the US, not Cuba, that's to blame for there being no formal diplomatic relations between the two countries.

[robbedvoter]

8. For a second I thought: so there was the Lieberman supporter!

Did you see his poster made by an artist in NYT(Vote getters?)

[Say_What]

11. Kucinich said it loud and clear in Miami a month or so ago

and about those *political prisoners*, they were supported by the US to incite the overthrow of their own government. Don't believe for a second that bullsh*t about if Cuba does this and if Cuba does that--unless you're naive enough to believe Bush and the RW fanatics in Florida. Also, if you try doing the kind of sh*t that those *political prisoners* did here, they'll lock you up pronto.

Note that the US law specifically mentions Cuba. Here's the US law: (Title 18, section 951 of the United States Code).

(a) Whoever, other than a diplomatic or consular officer or
attacheAE1, acts in the United States as an agent of a foreign
government without prior notification to the Attorney General if
required in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

...(4) any person engaged in a legal commercial transaction.
(e) Notwithstanding paragraph (d)(4), any person engaged in a
legal commercial transaction shall be considered to be an agent of
a foreign government for purposes of this section if -
(1) such person agrees to operate within the United States
subject to the direction or control of a foreign government or
official; and
(2) such person -
(A) is an agent of Cuba or any other country that the
President determines (and so reports to the Congress) poses a
threat to the national security interest of the United States
for purposes of this section, unless the Attorney General,
after consultation with the Secretary of State, determines and
so reports to the Congress that the national security or
foreign policy interests of the United States require that the
provisions of this section do not apply in specific
circumstances to agents of such country; or


<http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/45/sections/section_951.html>

[Mika]

12. And Kucinich didn't make pandering phone calls to the CANF either

So far, DK is the only candidate to openly espouse an end to the anti Cuba policies of the last four decades.

[Say_What]

15. Kucinich remarks re embargo in the belly of the beast--Miami

<clips>

“Congressman Kucinich,” I said, “Many in the audience here tonight would like to know what your feelings are on the Cuban embargo.”

He answered without hesitation: If elected president, he said, I would bring down the failed “blockade” (that was the term the presidential candidate used) against Cuba. His speech, and the reference to Cuba, were given during the second annual dinner and reception offered by Southwest Voter Registration Education Project (SVREP) before approximately 150 people gathered in Miami, Florida.

The crowd reacted with a standing and rousing ovation. Kucinich also addressed other very important issues during his speech that night, including health care, taxes, the Iraq War and others; but the crowd had waited impatiently for his pronouncement on Cuba. In my opinion, his answer assured him at least 100-plus new voters from the Miami area.


http://www.progresoweekly.com/2003/11Nov/01week/Alsloupe.htm

[Mika]

16. But.. but.. but..

"The crowd reacted with a standing and rousing ovation. "

But I thought that all Cuban-Americans in Miami were repugs. <sarcasm off> LOL

[Say_What]

3. He might be hinting at it, but Kucinich said in Miami that it was time

to get rid of that failed POS legislation.

[Jerseycoa]

4. Diplomacy Works

:yourock:

[Mika]

5. Explore? WTF? He agrees with the CANF position

Saying one thng to one group, another thing to a different group = pandering.

We Dems should know by now that pandering to the g-damn CANF will only get us a knife in the back.. again.


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/7402949.htm

Clark stops short of saying he would lift sanctions..

-

That same day, Clark placed a phone call to Joe Garcia, executive director of the Cuban American National Foundation, in which he assured Garcia that he was not necessarily calling for an end to the embargo.

Previously, Garcia said, he and other exile leaders have assumed that Clark favored lifting the embargo.

But on Tuesday, after a series of calls from Clark's campaign advisors, Garcia said the general's views were not necessarily inconsistent with his own.

[Say_What]

13. 'Clark stops short of saying he would lift sanctions..'

wiggle room needed for pandering to el exilie.

[Mika]

14. Its exasperating

He knows its a failed policy. A policy that doesn't work. He says it.

But he and his office makes a series of calls to reassure the CANF's Joe Garcia that their positions are not inconsistent?

:wtf:

[robbedvoter]

6. He's absolutely right about East Europe

frequently compares the situation in Cuba with communism in Eastern Europe -- arguing that engagement, rather than isolation, paved the way for democracy.
His ideas about dealing with Iraq, ME is based on the same princliples. I mean, stick with what works, non?

[Mika]

9. Cuba politics is surreal

There is a huge amount of campaign money to be made exploiting this issue - on both sides for both parties. A lotta lobbying money goes into both sides. Most US politicians don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Hence the stalemate.

Just why would Clark's campaign team make a series of calls to the CANF to reassure them that his positions aren't inconsistent with theirs? (FYI - The CANF is 100% pro embargo and 100% pro US travel sanctions.)

I smell a rat. A campaign cash rat. It always comes into play when it comes to Cuba policy. That is why it has remained for 40+ years.

Clinton and Gore and Lieberman pandered to the CANF (and got a lot of campaign cash for talkin tough against Castro) and we Dem party members got nothing but an increase in the draconian trade and travel laws against Cuba and us.. and a rigged presidential election.

[Osolomia]

17. The Dem candidates are surreal

Calling the head the Miami mafia ought to tell you who's the boss in the USA.

How much does Archer Daniel Midlands and other US corporations give in campaign contributions to END the embargo?

How do you account for the overwhelming majority votes in the House and Senate last month to lift the travel ban? Do you think they did it without any support from corporate America?

Is CANF richer than all the US corporations that want the embargo lifted put together?

In the face of the bipartisan majority that wants the embargo lifted, CANF’s campaign contributions do not explain why the Dem party still insists on pandering to the extremist Batistiano minority of Cuban-Americans. There’s something rotten going on here and it stinks.

[Mika]

18. Not just the CANF

Plenty of non CANF interests pour lots of bucks into the pro embargo/ pro travel sanctions politics. The US gaming industries (Las Vegas, Atlantic City, etc), the gaming cruise industry, Disney, Universal, Bush Gardens, & the rest of the Fla. tourism & hotel industry, the Bahamas tourism industry, the Bahamas gaming industries, ditto the Cayman Island and Jamaican tourism/gaming industries, the Florida keys tourism boards, the sugar industries, and plenty more. Placing 100% of the focus on the CANF (as we tend to do) shields the other anti Cuba trade interests because the US's filthy anti Cuba policy isn't popularly supported.

[Osolomia]

19. Then how do you account for the bipartisan majority vote last month?

And how do you account for the 38 farm states currently exporting to Cuba?

What support do they all have?

[Mika]

21. How do I account for the killing of it? Filth & Corruption

In know, I know.

Where did the amendment bill to end the sanctions go in markup negotiations? Buried by a filthy bipartisan markup committee (supposedly so that w* wouldn't veto the whole spending bill). Just where the F do the anti Cuba interests get so much power as to assure a presidential veto of an entire appropriations bill over a pro Cuba trade amendment? Its not the CANF alone that wields that much power.

[Osolomia]

22. How do you account for the fact that it passed for the 4th year in a row

If CANF is so powerfull and influential then why do they keep loosing that vote?


I can understand why Bush keeps pandering to his kingmakers but wtf do the Dems owe the Miami mafia?

[Mika]

23. Not just the Miami Maffia

See post #18

[Osolomia]

24. So what do the Dems owe the casino owners etc. etc.?

to account for the pandering?

Surely the campaign contributions from that lot don't add up to a hill of beans compared to the powerful and unfluential majority that want the embargo lifted, that's why the pro-embargo side keeps losing. And Dems too at this rate.

[Mika]

25. That is why they have to use dirty back room tactics

None of the filthy politicians want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

The ones that vote to end the sanctions get their pay from the various agri and other pro trade interests.
The ones who voted to keep the sanctions collected their money from the CANFers and other US tourism dollar based interests.

The amendment was killed in a secret back room deal.

The loop continues.

Pass go and collect 200 (million) dollars next year.


Democracy.. American style.

[Osolomia]

26. That still doesn't explain why the 2004 Dem prez candidates

are pandering to the extremist Batistiano minority when the majority and big money want the embargo lifted.

Does support for the Bush Doctrine have anything to do with their positions?

[Mika]

27. C'mon, wake up!

Why keep going on and on about the Batistano minority? You're right, they aren't the heaviest hitters. Obviously, there are other monied forces at work. Why keep working the Batistano loop? That hasn't worked for 40+ years.


Maybe you don't understand that if or when the sanctions on Cuba are lifted and official diplomatic relations are undertaken, then the pro and the anti embargo campaign cash cow comes to an end.

None of the filthy politicians want that to happen. Yes, there might be a few who espouse normalization (and a few on the other side) based on their principles, but, it is all about keeping the campaign money greasing their wheels. If the wheels stop squeaking - no more grease.

Continually focusing on, and misplacing all of the blame on, the Batistanos only (as we see a lot of here on DU, where all Cuban-Americans are mistakenly assumed to be repukes, for example) gives a pass to the other organizations/forces who promote undemocratic processes and anti American laws.

The other players have used American's ignorance to blame (or admire, depending on one's position) the Cuban-American community as part of the cover for their participation in undemocratic deeds. Other players who the need to have the light shined on them. That won't happen very easily if all the pro trade forces focus on is the Miamicuban "exiles". The obfuscation will continue as long as we let them.

[Osolomia]

28. A minority is a minority

That much is that simple, except in DUhland.

The majority of campaign money wants the embargo lifted, hence the majority votes in Congress for 4 years in a row now.

The leading 2004 Dem prez contenders are pandering to the minority, for some peculiar reason their money is better than the majority's.

Go figure!

[Mika]

33. Its all for show

Its stagecraft that allows them to continue pandering for bucks for yet another year. They make their pro or con votes in public, for appearances, working for their loyalties, and then kill it in the dark of night. Four years in a row adds up to a lotta campaign cash (make that five years in a row.. they have to do it all over again next year).

[Osolomia]

35. Isolating Cuba makes no sense

November 30, 2003

Four years ago, a devoted Christian from Indiana named Joni Scott boarded a plane in Canada and with 38 other believers traveled to Cuba to distribute Bibles there. Now, she is being hunted by the Bush administration for violating the ban on unlicensed travel to the communist state. She faces a $10,000 fine for the crime of exercising not one but two First Amendment liberties, freedom of religion and freedom to travel, all because a zealous minority has been unable to adjust to the end of the Cold War.

… U.S. policy toward Cuba is as outdated today as the ancient Chevys that motor down the country's smoky and dilapidated avenues. The rest of the world recognizes what Washington refuses to see, and now we are the ones who are isolated diplomatically and economically. A few days ago, the United Nations General Assembly voted 179-3 to condemn U.S. sanctions against Cuba for the 12th consecutive year. Canada and our European allies, while critical of Castro's repression, use the power of economic engagement to raise the living standards of the Cuban people.

.... Identical measures approved in the House and Senate would be sent to the president's desk as a matter of course. But the Cuban-American voters in Miami exercise enormous political influence; they see themselves and are viewed by the president's political advisers as the margin of victory in Florida for the next election. The Cuba travel language was dropped in the House-Senate conference, sparing President Bush the political dilemma of whether to keep the ban.

The story need not end this way. Men and women of good will can remind Bush and the Republican leadership in Congress that the Cold War is over, and that our antiquated policy of preventing contact and commerce between Americans and Cubans long ago ran its course. And they should let people such as Scott resume her chosen mission of spreading the word of love without fearing punishment from her government, as our Founding Fathers would have obviously wanted. Let's open the door to Cuba.

More…
http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/097627-5096-022.html

[Osolomia]

29. A Dem prez would do the same thing with such a majority vote

judging from the leading candidates' minority positions on Cuba.

[roughsatori]

10. hinting that he might do something. He seems to rarely take a brave stand

on any issue. (Yes I know he was a war "Hero." Unfortunately that does not translate to brave, clear stances on controversial issues.)

In interviews in the future when he is asked to be clear regarding Cuba and the sanctions, he will refuse to answer and waffle--but his fans will post things here like: "He really showed the media whores." And they will be right--but not in the way they think.

[FrenchieCat]

31. God Damn!

Pretty critical aren't we? Let Clark get into office first. Nobody just want's to take a bold stand and lose that Cuban vote in Florida. You guy want to win, or you just want to make a point. Sheech.....that's why we are as f*cked as we are now.

Pandering is something that all of these damn politicians do...it's called politics obviously.

Kucinich is a hero, OK? But is he doing well at the polls thus far? I don't think so.

So I guess taking a strong stance means that nothing gets accomplished at all, cause at the end, you can't do sh*t if you're not in that office! Capiche?

[Osolomia]

32. The majority of Cuban-Americans want the embargo lifted

and are the biggest violators of it but the law is never enforced on them.

All the leading 2004 Democratic presidential contenders are pandering to the extremist right wing minority of Miami's Cuban voters for various pretzel logic excuses.

[Mika]

34. Its our duty to be critical

Putting the wrong candidate in office can do a lot of harm to the good people of Cuba, some of whom are my friends. I, one among many, want to know our candidate's positions before we vote for them.


We are f*cked as we are now because people voted for candidates without knowing their positions, or holding their feet to the fire. Capiche?

[Tinoire]

36. What's with all these hints and winks?

Someone tell these guys that this is the internet age. Hints, winks and jolly-elbowing will not work this time.

Only clear positions are acceptable so that we can put these candidates under a microscope and, most of all, HOLD THEM TO THEIR WORDS!