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France has too much freedom: Lech Walesa

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Flagg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 09:53 AM
Original message
France has too much freedom: Lech Walesa
VIENNA, Aug 30, 2006 (AFP) - Poland's former president and legendary head of the Solidarity union, Lech Walesa, hailed the role played by the country's current political leaders, the twin brothers Lech and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, within the European Union as a counterpoint to the "French model".

In an interview to appear Thursday in the Austrian daily Der Standard, Walesa said that "the French model, which is based on freedom, has not been effective and is bad. (But) if there did not exist people like Lech and Jaroslaw Kaczynski, that is what would be chosen" for the future of the EU.

"France has built an open society, inviting Africans and Arabs to its country, building mosques, and not churches. And
after there was fire in the streets," the conservative former head of state and Nobel peace laureate said.

"You have to thank God there exist people like the Kaczynskis."

The attitude of the new Polish government dominated by President Lech Kaczynski, and his twin, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the new prime minister, has raised concerns within the EU, especially regarding their positions in favor of the death penalty, opposition to homosexuality and alleged anti-Semitism.

<snip>

Asked about Poland's controversial ultra-Catholic Radio Marija, Walesa said he supported about 95 percent of its programmes and that he never heard anti-Semitic remarks on the station.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchan...


It's sad to see what Lech Walesa has become.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. wow
what a nutbar
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. He's a tool of certain right wing Fascists
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Though it's true that France has shot itself in the foot with it's lax
immigration policies, it does appear that Walesa has taken a hard turn to the ultra-right.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. BS, see post below
we have illegal immigration, that's the problem. Like in the US, like other European countries. We are no more "lax" than the others (compare for example with Spain/Italy). Walesa has ALWAYS been a Catholic fundie, no special turn here. But that was "OK" when he fought the communists...
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Whadda asshole.
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Time was when you were a great hero, Lech;
now you're just an old crank. Please shut up before you tarnish your legacy completely.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. What Lech needs is another Kaczynski.
Ted, to be exact.

He always was a proto fascist. Hero at one time.
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BurgherHoldtheLies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. Ya, merging church and state is a proven, superior model historically
:sarcasm:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. There it is. Bush hates France for its freedom.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. in a sense you are right (sarcasm aside)
freedom to improve the welfare of our citizens.... aah those pinko liberal French...
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Dulcinea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. We have a winner! ding*ding*
You beat me to it!
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. something has happened to Poland

I've been noticing it for the last several yrs.

seems the neo cons have invaded

the Polish media must be in on it as I haven't read/ or heard a peep out of the Polish public on their country going over to the dark side.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. they hate us for our freedom obviously
some precisions Mr Walesa

#1 we don't "invite" people more than they need asylum, immigrate legally, have the right to regroup as families etc... besides only half of these immigrants come from Africa/North Africa, the other half from the rest of the world. One third of the immigrants are Europeans, among them plenty of Poles for some strange reason.

#2 the State doesn't build mosques or churches, it's FORBIDDEN in law. Mosques are built with the money collected by the Muslim associations. Funding from outside has been regulated, so the mosques don't become "property"of the Saudis etc... There are about 1500 mosques in France and most of them are simple rooms of prayer. Only 13 have the size and the exterior appearance of a church.. Compare with the 45000 Catholic churches.

#3 The French state pumps in millions of euros for the reparation of churches, not as places of cult, but as historic monuments. It applies to any historic monument, whatever the religion may be. There are 45 000 catholic churches in France, 2000 temples, 280 synagogues, 150 pagods and 130 orthodox churches.

Since 1905, 144 catholic churches have been abandoned and 2014 built

http://www.quid.fr/2006/Religions/Statistiques_En_Franc...

#4 the rioting in the streets was caused by a lack of integration, unemployment and poverty. Basically those people asked to be MORE French and not to be more "muslim". The causes have NOTHING to do with religion.

Mr Walesa you are a fucking hypocrit bigot liar and should shove your Nobel Prize up your ass.

That's the "Poland" like yours we want to forget.
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BurgherHoldtheLies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Good for you, tocqueville!!!
And thank you for some actual French perspective/facts. I agree, Walesa should have his Nobel Prize revoked (or shoved up his ass, if you like).
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I mean it's preposterous
1500 "against" 45000 !!!! Besides there is freedom of religion in France, a thing that Walesa doesn't understand.
So if Muslims want to build mosques, it's perfectly alright. And they do it without a penny from the State. Only one or two, the oldest get probably some reparation money, but as historic monuments. Because they are part of OUR country's heritage, which involves people of many races and religions.

Try to build a mosque in Poland today !!!!!!!!!!
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. 
avec votre esprit cartsien ! Walesa avait dj des tendances fasco et

autoritaires pendant le mouvement Solidarnsc il y a 25 ans. Cela n'a fait

que s'accentuer avec l'ge. Vive la vrai solidarit des franais ! SG
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Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. "... should shove your Nobel Prize up your ass."
Kissinger and Arafat got Nobel Peace Prizes too, so obviously being a hypocrite and a liar aren't disqualifications.

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frankieT Donating Member (375 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Bravo ! -nt-
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
14. The pre-1989 government was too lenient with him.
He is really a fascist Pilsudski-loving (Poland's Mussolini) politician. He is no democrat in any sense. Poland would be better off had no never risen to any sort of influence.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. Poland has too many assholes named Lech. eom
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. Walesa seems all over the place
From the same article saying France has too much freedom, and praising the Kaczynskis:

Personally he said he did not care for the Kaczynskis. "Not because of their political views, but because of their style".

"I do not agree with their authoritarian tendencies," he told the paper.


Huh? That ties in with most other reports of his recent attitude to them:

Walesa said last week that he had quit Solidarity in protest against its current support for the Law and Justice party of Poland's leaders President Kaczynski and his twin brother, Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

The Kaczynskis were advisers to Walesa and activists in Solidarity, but fell out with him while he was president between 1990-1995. The rift prompted him to stay away from Thursday's official ceremonies.

http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap...


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Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. Politics is the kool-aid
And Lech Walesa has being drinking it for far too long. Try some absinthe, Lech-ie boy.
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Irreverend IX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. What do you call Walesa's supporters? Lechers? nt
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SoyCat Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. What's wrong, Lech--don't like that women still have rights in France?
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Euphen Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. He's always been an asshole. nt
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. Walesa received only 1% of the votes in 2000
Evidently, he's real popular in Poland.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
27. Too much freedom? I'm learning French
tomorrow. That's where I want to be.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
28. Walesa is just a superstitious peasant (and always has been)
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