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CIA Used 'Micro Nuclear' Bomb In Bali: Bashir

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smb Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:08 PM
Original message
CIA Used 'Micro Nuclear' Bomb In Bali: Bashir
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bashir-blames-bali-on-...

Indonesian Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Bashir claims America's top spy agency was involved in the devastating 2002 Bali bombings.

Bashir, who was convicted and imprisoned for having prior knowledge of the attacks which killed 202 people, including 88 Australians, is also appealing for the lives of three convicted bombers to be spared....

In an interview tonight on ABC television's Foreign Correspondent, Bashir claims the device that killed most people in the Bali attack was a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) "micro-nuclear" bomb.

"The micro-nuclear bomb that did so much damage was a CIA bomb, not Amrozi's bomb," Bashir told the ABC.

"The Bali bombing was actually masterminded by America. Well, not masterminded, but hijacked. They planned it, but their plan was hijacked by America."

"So the bomb that killed so many Australians, it was an American bomb. It wasn't the bomb made by Amrozi and his friends."

Bashir defended the Bali bombers, but conceded their actions may have been "misguided"....
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Um ok.
Edited on Tue Aug-29-06 04:09 PM by MidwestTransplant
I would have thought it was the Joooooooose. CIA would have been my second guess.

:wtf:
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Aren't they the same thing?
I thought the CIA was a tool of the Joooooose, I believe you used one to many O's in your version.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Whoh talk about a conspiracy freak!
Take off your tinfoil hat dude ;)
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Keyword: "claims".
What evidence does he have for these seemingly-preposterous claims?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Think small.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. This Fellow, Sir, Is A Genuine Nimrod
Let it never be said clerical status implies intellectual competence, or even basic sanity....

"There are thousands of human insects in this world, eager to acquaint you at a moment's notice with the Will of God on all possible subjects."
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. That is the strangest defense I've heard in a long time. n/t
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. A 'micro' nuclear bomb?
How micro? I guess Bashir hasn't heard of the concept of 'critical mass.' It requires a certain amount of fissile material to make a bomb that will produce the desired chain reaction for a nuclear explosion. Any less, and all you have is a bunch of radioactive stuff sitting there, doing not very much. This minimum amount implies a minimum yield for any such device, which would be considerably more than the destructive force unleashed in the Bali bombing.

A little less religion and a little more physics would have helped Bashir avoid this mistake.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. As an aside, the smallest nukes ever built yielded around 10 to 20 tons.
That's the equivalent of 20,000 to 40,000 pounds of TNT. Big. Not to mention the fact that those bombs also produced a fatal dose of radiation up to a quarter mile away, which would have been rather conspicuous.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. so you've never heard of the SADM they had in the 60's? n/t
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. SADM yield is 10 tons to 1 kiloton (of TNT)
The backpack bomb used in the initial explosion in Bali was on the order of a few pounds of explosive. The car bomb used in the second explosion outside was estimate at 1000kg, or less than a ton.

Even giving the SADM theory the maximum benefit of the doubt, the explosion that actually happened was between one and two orders of magnitude too small to be attributable to an SADM (i.e., it was 10 to 100 times too small).

Various posters have pointed other absurdities associated with this, so I won't repeat them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Atomic_Demolition_...

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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. well, never mind the type of the second bomb then...
Edited on Wed Aug-30-06 02:03 AM by anotherdrew
it would have been an old SADM anyway.

it's useless to speculate on it being some new super micro-bomb really, maybe there are such things, probably not.

What he's really saying - reading thru his own bad info about the type of the second bomb - they don't claim the second bomb, only the first smaller one. There's actuall odd things about the double bombing and the second bomb, but that get's obscured by talk of zionist micro nukes in Vialls work and knee-jerk "CIA" claims, which is too bad.
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. The SADM had a minimum yield of 10 tons.
Plus it put out an amazing amount of radiation, a nasty side-effect of smaller nuclear devices (due to their fission-only nature).
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #21
38. That IS the SADM. It's minimum yield was 10 tons. NT.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. The radiation was conspicuous - that's why the Mossad
triggered a tsunami to hide the evidence...
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. hehehhehehehee
good one.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. No
That is utter bullshit. With a basic college engineering background I can tell you the chemical processes in a nuclear weapon are unmistakable. There is no way to hide a nuclear explosion.

If there was a technical way, why? Why not just use conventional explosives?

It is possible I am a space alien, but not probable.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. Ah, the ol' nuclear hand grenade...
Of course! A little pea of plutonium surrounded by shaped C4. Just pull the pin and throw it really really really far. And duck and plug your ears. :nuke:

Because, after all, by 1985 plutonium was availble in every corner drugstore, right? I seem to remember a prominate scientist, a Dr. Brown, I believe, making that claim a while ago. Didn't he drive a Delorean?

Fortunatly they have that new plutonium made by the same people that make Jet-Dry! It leave no milky residue glowing in the night, unlike other brands of plutonium! :applause:

Look, weapons-grade fissionable material like plutonium or uranium would be worth i don't know how many millions of dollars per pound. If they only had enough to replicate an explosion from a moderate amount of C4, dynamite, or ammonium nitrate, then they would have been better off selling it and buying a LOT of conventional exposives!

Or they could grind the stuff to a fine metallic powder, coat a brick of C4 it it, bring it up to a tall building on a windy day, and toss the brick off the roof with a short fuse. Plutonium poisoning would probably kill thousands of people in a slow, painful, and medically intensive way as citizens inhaled the fine particles. Lots of media attention on that, ya know?

Plutonium and uranium are heavy metals, toxic like lead or mercury with with a slight radioactive element that works especially well on the soft, unprotected tissues in the lungs. That's why Greenpeace freaks out every time NASA launches a deep-space probe powered by plutonium.
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Stella_Artois Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. Don't scoff so soon.
He proved his theory by placing some fireworks in cage made of chicken wire, and then standing on it. I think there was a thread on DU about this a few months ago.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I have an Aussie friend who floated this very theory to me
in Bali several years ago. I didn't know what to make of it then and still don't. :wtf:
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why bother?
What advantage would there be in using hard-to-obtain nuclear fuel for a ultra-complex bomb when you can do the same damage with a relatively small amount of C4 strapped to a torso with a battery charger? Doesn't make any sense at all.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Eh, they like to test these kinds of things to see what they can
really do in-theater
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Like leave no radiological
trace. Not possible. No double flash.

Leaves nitrate residue not fallout.

A modern miracle.

That would put LANL out of business. What do you think blue gene is really doing. Playing chess?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. Maybe it was a tiny hydrogen bomb?
I recall, several years ago, the military wanted to test a laser detonated hydrogen bomb.
The result would be a big boom but no fall out since an atomic bomb wouldn't be necessary for detonation.

The military was given a big NO.

:shrug:
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. weird story, weird guy, weird premise.
the whole thing is weird. and stupid.
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frankieT Donating Member (375 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. lol -eom-
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. What an idiot
there are so many logical reasons I could list that prove this guy is a oxygen theif.

This guy should be worm food for his part in that massacre.

Is this LBN?
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. Wow. Brilliant defense. I'll bet lots of folks will buy that over there.
Edited on Tue Aug-29-06 05:52 PM by w4rma
99.9% likely to be false, however. But a brilliant attempt.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. Look for the Loose Change guys to do a Bali spinoff
This "mico nuclear" bomb defense makes about as much sense as controlled demolition of the towers or a cruise missile hitting the Pentagon (for the record, I don't believe in MIHOP, and I believe that 9/11 was the result of Al Qaida getting lucky with Bush's incompetence.)
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. Is this a slow news day or something? nt
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Kickoutthejams23 Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. And this differs from the 9/11 tin hat brigade how exactly?
"The Bali bombing was actually masterminded by America. Well, not masterminded, but hijacked. They planned it, but their plan was hijacked by America."


Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a terrorist attack is well an attack by terrorists.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. 
That's the first line of the page you referenced.

A piece that starts with "Zionist Nuclear Attack on Bali" and then misspells media as "Mediai" does not summon my deepest confidence that the facts weren't tortured until they confessed.

Peace.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. hehehe hahahhahah BWAHAHAHHAHHAA
"does not summon my deepest confidence that the facts weren't tortured until they confessed."

thanks for the best laugh i've had in a couple days.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. What a fantastic line!
"does not summon my deepest confidence that the facts weren't tortured until they confessed"
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. for starters,
Complete 911 Timeline

It ain't all loose change, you know.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. I knew many of those people.
Edited on Tue Aug-29-06 10:23 PM by Scout1071
All of them brilliant. I spent a good amount of time in Hong Kong with the HK Football (Rugby) Club a few months before the blast. They were in Bali for the Bali 7's Rugby tournament. So terribly tragic. These people were wonderful. Characters one and all. I look thru my photo albums and see all their faces at a black tie party, having the time of their lives.

So sad.
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nealhughes Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. Bashir is a graduate of the Grassy Knoll Train Tramps Academy with a
MA in both physics and Islamic Theology.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
33. Yeah.... uh... okay...
I don't think so, Bashir
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
34. There is no micro nuke
It is true that you can de tune a bomb to produce less than its maximum yield.
If you have less than 9 kilos of plutonium or 11 kilos of uranium there will be no fission explosion.
Less than those masses and more neutrons leak out of the mass of fissionable material to permit the chain reaction needed.
The development that would allow small fission explosions is an improved neutron reflector. And I thank the gods we don't have one.
20 pounds of any conventional explosive will lay waste to a club.
And C-4 or plain old TNT are vastly cheaper than weapons grade uranium.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CardInAustin Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
39. Oh well....
why didn't you say so.

Seems like a perfectly credible source. The terrorists planned it.....but the CIA did it. Uh huh. Ok.

I'm completely convinced. Yep. 100% This guy's word is gold for me.

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