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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 05:07 AM
Original message
Key Dem US legislator says will block aid to Lebanon
By Adam Entous
28 minutes ago


JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A key U.S. legislator said in Israel on Sunday he would block aid President George W. Bush promised Lebanon and free the funds only when Beirut agreed to the deployment of international troops on the border with Syria.

"The international community must use all our available means to stiffen Lebanon's spine and to convince the government of Lebanon to have the new UNIFIL troops on the Syrian border in adequate numbers," said Tom Lantos, the ranking Democrat on the U.S. House of Representatives' International Relations Committee.

Lantos said he was putting a legislative hold on Bush's proposal to provide $230 million in aid for Lebanon in the aftermath of the 34-day war between Israel and Lebanese Hizbollah guerrillas.

As the top Democrat on the International Relations Committee, Lantos has the power to hold up legislation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060827/ts_nm/mideast_usa_l... ;_ylt=Akz_ACxvxQd48QETXkVWaCCBzdAF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. The damage done by the illegal...
...bombing and invasion of Lebanon by Israel runs well into the billions, and since we sponsored it and did nothing to stop it we ARE liable for those damages. Of course, in the 'might makes right' world it which we live there will be no accountability for us or Israel---at least not in the near term.

Lebanon should tell the U.S. Congress to shove their pittance $230 million insult up their collective congressional ass.
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muryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Illegal how?
Israel invaded as direct result of a provocation by a militia group that operates freely in southern lebanon. That seems legal enough to me.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Indiscriminate bombing of areas...
Edited on Sun Aug-27-06 06:05 AM by Mr_Jefferson_24
...populated by civilians violates international law. Comes under the heading of war crimes. They even used cluster bombs in these areas which is unconscionable.

This was something that's been planned for a long time. The kidnapped soldiers were merely used as a pretext for it.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Is it illegal for Hezbollah to launch rockets from populated areas?
Please. I keep hearing all this talk about how wrong it is for Israel to bomb these areas "indiscriminately". What about the fact that Hezbollah regularly launches rockets from heavily populated areas? I gotta give Hezbollah props, they came up with one helluva military tactic! Launch your attacks from such an area, then when the inevitable retaliation comes, bring in the media to witness Israel's "indiscriminate" attacks.

Another question - is it illegal for Hezbollah to fire rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas in Israel? Or is it only illegal when civilian casualties rise to a certain level? How much damage and death has to be attained before it becomes "illegal"?
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Would It Make a Difference to You If It Were Legal?
What's your point?
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. I don't condone anyone using civilians...
as human shields, but I also don't think these assertions have much credibility as applied to Hezbollah.
As to the legality of it, I'm uncertain---it's definitely immoral and wrong.

I do not support Hezbollah's firing rockets into civilian territory of Israel and would certainly think it too, is illegal.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:22 PM
Original message
HRW and AI have condemned both sides for targeting civilians.
Israel's just happened to be massively more disproportionate and indiscriminate, based partly on their overwhelming firepower.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. delete
Edited on Sun Aug-27-06 03:28 PM by Zhade
dumb mouse

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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
64. Nonsense. Israel did what she had to do. However, the job still
remains to be completed. Thus, she will be forced to reengage.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #64
73. You sound like the Israeli Defense Minister...
...whose title should actually be "Minister of Terror."
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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. If I were the Israeli Defense Minister, there would have been some real
terror in Lebanon.

The way to win a war is to kill your opponents warriors. Unfortunately, that task remains to be completed.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #74
81. The way for Israel to win is to genuinely and sincerely...
...commit to the pursuit regional peace, and that means withdraw from ALL occupied territories, cease ALL hostilities, and begin paying reparations for their 40 year stretch of major war crimes and other wanton violence, brutality, and terror they've committed against neighboring states.



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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. Peace comes after victory; it has always been that way
and it will always be that way.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. Victory for Israel comes after they do the required...
...soul searching, come to their collective senses, and take the necessary remedial actions...

<snip>

For decades, Israel has sought to provide its citizens with Security by ruthlessly crushing any efforts the Palestinians might make to resist Israels absolute power. Its an approach that is supposed to work in theory by eventually convincing the Palestinians (and their Muslim supporters) that RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. The perception of futility is supposed to be followed by resignation and then sullen acceptance of Israels demands. With an Israeli gun pointed at their heads, the Palestinians will supposedly-eventually-accept the demands that Israel has been making of them and then peace will finally be achieved.

For a number of years, it actually seemed as though Israel might be able to succeed with this approach. At the end of the last decade, many people were hoping that Yasser Arafat might settle for Peace With Dishonor at Bill Clintons urging, but then he ultimately backed off of the idea. Now, in the aftermath of Hezbollahs impressive victory against the mighty Israeli army, everything has changed. Palestinian militants have been given a booster shot of hope and inspiration. But thats not all; Hezbollahs victory has also boosted the confidence of Irans passionate leaders, who can now be expected to respond to any threats George Bush might make with a smirky, Bring it on

So what now, Israel? What kind of future do you have to look forward to? The Wall is not going to protect you from long-range missile attacks. Some day, the enemies you have made will obtain nuclear weapons. What happens to your security then? Do you want peace with your neighbors, Israel, or do you not? Maybe, just maybe, this little wake-up call will prompt Israels opinion-makers to begin reflecting at length on the virtues of a fresh, new approach to peace negotiations with the Palestinians. After all, theyve spent fifty-eight years relying on their Tough Guy approach and it hasnt worked.

Perhaps it would help if they began by re-examining the most fundamental aspects of their situation. Forget about the immediate threats that you perceive at the moment, Israel, and ask yourselves what kind of peace would you ideally like to experience in the future? Do you want to arrive at a point where you are actually able to live without fear? Do you want to some day see smiles on the faces of your Palestinian neighbors? Do you want to feel a warmth of Good Will radiating from their hearts? If thats what you want, then you are going to have to try a much different approach from the one youve been embracing...


By James J. Kroeger

http://nontrivialpursuits.org/WordPress/?p=29
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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #92
103. Peace will come when the Arabs are able to grasp the fact that Israel
has a right to exist. That, of course, will never happen. Thus, the only means to peace is as I have stated before.

"Hezbollahs victory...?" Mr. Kroeger is a very funny man.

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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #103
105. Israel's been on the course of militarism...
...as a means of dealing with their neighbors in the Middle East for half a century--always intentionally derailing any peace talks that look like they might bear fruit. This approach, which you apparently endorse, has not worked. They're not more secure, and are more dependent than ever on the annual $4 billion welfare handout they receive from the U.S. They use this money for fancy war toys with which they terrorize their neighbors under the guise of self defense. This is not good for Israel or the U.S., and certainly not for Israel's Arab neighbors.

Your delusions about Israel winning some kind of meaningful, lasting, peace through terror, oppression, and violence cannot possibly come to pass.
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Don1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #89
99. Peace comes after victory in war?
Okay, so how about North and South Korea? They had a cease-fire along with troop deployment followed by decades of peace. And how about the victory of WW1? As a result of that there was another world war.

The fact of the matter is that peace is peace and peace can follow peace. Why assume that peace will follow war and so naturally choose war when already at a state of peace? This is irrational and has the potential to lose more life than needed, while the opposite logically dictates less loss in life.
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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #99
104. WWII was an extension of WWI, but if the world could have crushed Hitler
before he built Germany's military into the juggernaut it would become.

However, we beat Germany and Japan into submission during WWII and that's the way it must be done to secure peace.

So yes, peace comes after victory.
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Don1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. This is no argument at all.
The victors of WWII are responsible for setting up Israel and a Middle Eastern underclass, which has thereby perpetuated more war. So, no, war comes after victory.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
71. "Indiscriminate bombing of areas populated by civilians"
You've just summed up the TERRORISTS Hezbollah ENTIRE STRATEGY from the get go - they have NO OTHER strategy.

But yet your condemnation of THEM is conspiciously silent...

We wonder why!

The TERRORIST group Hezbollah INTENTIONALLY TARGETS CIVILIANS.

PERIOD.

That is a FACT.

Israel DOES NOT INTENTIONALLY TARGET CIVILIANS.

PERIOD.

Go peddle your bullshit someplace else - oh, wait, you're among the group that does it regularly HERE
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #71
93. Well wonder no more, it's because Hezbollah...
...is NOT the aggressor, terrorist nation---that would be Israel. Hezbollah was born out of the need for some kind of defensive force that would protect the Shias of Southern Lebanon from Israel...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RQyrAVufPhs
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Don1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #71
100. Ummm...
Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldiers and Israel has bombed civilians indiscriminantly in this particular conflict we are talking about. Even prior to this kidnapping of soldiers by Hezbollah, Israel kidnapped some civilians across the border. It is reported in the foreign press that a doctor and his relative were taken prisoner. These are facts.

Now, on to what you said...You wrote that "Hezbollah INTENTIONALLY TARGETS CIVILIANS." You are right. They do sometimes, maybe even most of the time. I don't have statistics handy. You also wrote that "Israel DOES NOT INTENTIONALLY TARGET CIVILIANS." This is not right at all and is an over-simplification of facts. Israel intentionally targets infrastructure (like financial buildings, bridges, radio stations etc) and has at least some disregard for civilian life wherever that infrastructure is located. The civilian deaths in those instances are classified as "collateral damage" and a necessary loss of life in order to achieve military goals. However, Israel may justify this is inconsequential as Hezbollah also justifies loss of civilian life. The only logical conclusion from this is that Israel is technically intentionally tageting civilians. It is a technicality, but an important and true one, because (1) we are talking about civilian life here and (2) the loss of civilian lives of Lebanese people has been more than Israeli lives lost in this conflict by a couple of orders of magnitude. It would be extremely intellectually dishonest to pretend that Israel is pure in all this.

Stating that Israel has some right to defend itself from the crazies is a double standard to the highest degree. All civilian lives have value and peace is the answer.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. flattening a country isn't legal and certainly not moral
under pretext of an abduction of soldiers. Israel goes regularly over the border and kidnaps Hezbollah people. The truth is that this operation was planned long ahead and goaded by the US as a repetition to invade Syria or Iran or at least as a way to diminish risks of retaliation in case of an invasion.

it's truly disgusting that a US lawmaker, specially a Democrat sets conditions of that kind for an aid package, knowing that the UNIFIL mandate will probably not permit a deployment at the Syrian border.

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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
65. What Israel did was both moral and legal. Moreover, Santos
is right when it comes to aid for Lebanon.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #65
94. Genocide is "moral and legal" when Israel does it
Apartheid is evil when the white Afrikaaners practiced it, but it is a virtue when Israel does it.

When Israel does to Lebanon what America did to Iraq, it suddenly becomes righteous. Isn't that just another version of racism?
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Illegal or not, Israel lost to Hezbollah
so much for their vaunted military.

Is it more embarassing to lose an illegal war or a legal one?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. They didn't lose militarily. They lost because they knew the world and its
"diplomats" would not let them win.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Israel does whatever it damn well pleases
since big brother (US) has it's back. Yeah the world hasn't done much about the 68 UN resolutions Israel is in violation of.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. The UN is a sick, unfunny joke that would outlaw Israel if it could.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. If Israel acted with no regard, it would have nuked Lebanon.
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. quick physics lesson...
...Lebanon is too close to Israel to nuke...even the lowest megaton warhead dropped on Beruit would take out half of Israel directly with the blast radius, and contaminate the rest of the country with fallout indirectly.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
68. That's nonsense. No nuke Israel has can do anywhere near that much.
The blast radius is not 100 miles. It is more like 2-3 miles.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. suicide
nuking southern Lebanon = nuking Israel too. Who all gets sick or killed depends on which way the wind blows.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #49
69. Even without nukes Israel could have killed a lot more than 1000 in a
month with its firepower. If it wanted to, it could have leveled hundreds of apartment blocs on the first day of the war when no one was expecting it and killed tens of thousands in a matter of a few minutes. It also could have lined up its MLRS systems and just leveled towns and villages within hours, killing all within. Believe me, if they were trying, half the population of Lebanon would be dead if they were targeting civilians.
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. of course Israel lost militarily...
...otherwise, the IDF would still be occupying southern Lebanon and continuing the war against the rest of the country, regardless of what the world community or its diplomats said--just as Israel has always done. On the last day of a war to destroy Hezbollah and stop the rocketing of Israel, Hezbollah fired more rockets than on any previous day...and haven't fired one since the cease-fire went into effect. On the other hand, Israel has conducted overflights, bombings and cross-border raids almost every day of the cease-fire, and still has Lebanon blockaded by its navy and air force (which still refuses to guarantee the safety of planes flying into Beruit International). I can assure you that once Israel settles the political fallout from this debacle (firing some generals, reshuffling some right-wing politicians, rearming the IDF) the next government (probably Likud) will find another bullshit pretext to launch a second war, and i'm just as confident that apologists, such as yourself, will be cheering them on, safely from the sidelines...again.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. That's the same argument rightwingers make about the Viet Nam war.
I sure hope you're not suggesting the Israel military should have been allowed to attack even more indicriminately than it already was?

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. I don't think they were attacking all that indiscriminately to start with.
Less so than six years of Hezbullah rockets over the boarder.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. World opinion, and reality, disagree with you.
Good day to you, sir.

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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #50
83. 1000 dead from precision guided munitions can only mean intent.
And they were in someone else's country as well.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Bullshit (nt).
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. They Lost
lost in more ways than one. Their neo-nut government lost support around the World. Just as the neo-nuts lost support for the US.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. oh, DOH, like you don't know . . . (n/t)
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springhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. Man........
I am so sick of this. So if someone kidnapped someone from the United States we could blow that country into kingdom come? Your posts show absolutely no indepth thinking of the situation, just blind loyalty to Israel whatever they decide to do.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Huh...well that puts you in the group of nations who agree it was legal...
US, UK, and Israel.
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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #29
66. Being right isn't always easy.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. ROTFLMAO!!!
:rofl:

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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #76
91. The laughed at Churchill too. But he was right about Hitler.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #91
96. And who's "Hitler" this time???
:rofl:
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IntiRaymi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. You condone Human Rights abuses.
Collective punishment, environmental destruction, etc.
No, not legal enough by any standard.
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. No to worry...
As we speak, Hizb'allah is further consolidating its position as perceived victor in this conflict. They're on the ground now, re-building, comforting, helping, winning more hearts & minds (even among the Maronite & Druze communities) with every resurrected house, bridge & road.

Both the US & Israel have been pathetically out-maneuvered in this round, & the laughable $230m that Lantos wants to "block" is a derisory drop in the diplomatic bucket. The blind-sided, right-wing ideologues in both countries have no clue. Eternal war will never solve this. A whole new paradigm is required. SG
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well said.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Hizb'allah is rebuilding Lebanon
yet the US can't rebuild Iraq or even New Orleans.

What's wrong with this picture?

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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
67. Hezbollah is rebuilding it's military capability. Nothing more,
nothing less.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #67
84. Go read the posted article again.
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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Oh, I can read well enough. I'm just not as easily deceived as
some folks are.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #90
102. CNN International
showing hundreds of Hezbollah trucks and earthmoving vehicles quickly clearing the mountains of debris.
Bombing victims receiving $10,000 checks within three days of request.
Are you saying these CNN reports are staged?


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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #102
106. CNN International
The news agency that was duped into showing the same dead baby over and over claiming that each presentation displayed a unique victim.

Were there any bathroom audio snippets included?
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #106
108. CNN International vs. Little Green Footballs and Michelle Malkin
Edited on Thu Aug-31-06 10:31 AM by SOS
So 28 people, mostly women and children, were not killed in Qana because Michelle Malkin says so?
I'll trust BBC, CNN International, AFP and DW before listening to the absurd blathering of Charles Johnson, Michelle Malkin and Jonah Goldberg.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200608080001
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/02/qana.inquirie...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5263982.stm

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Master of Disaster Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. Journalistic Jokes
The multiple episodes of dead babies and screaming women have become journalistic jokes. However, I do not doubt the fact that innocents were killed during the recent violence produced by Hezbollah's provocation of Israel.

Thats what happens when so-called warriors hide behind women and children.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-01-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #109
110. So the dead women and children in Lebanon are a "joke".
There were more children killed in Lebanon than Hezbollah fighters. But the right-wing bloggers are still spinning an AFP time stamp.

And to your point that Hezbollah is doing "nothing more" than re-arming, you might be interested in today's cover photo from the New York Times:



They're doing a better reconstruction job than Bush in New Orleans.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #110
111. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
54. Ding, ding, - we got a winner! - you nailed it ! - "laughable $230m"
.
.
.

That doesn't even keep the USA's WarMachine going for a DAY!!

Israel destroyed billions of dollars of infrastructure in Lebanon

as if a few million bucks would help much

The USA's underwhelming generosity just never ceases to amaze me

Saddam was a saint compared to your Bushler IMO

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leQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. couldn't have said it better myself. (eom)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. Lantos's proposal seems like a good idea.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm always curious how the United States can give $ aid to anyone.
We have no money to give, lend or otherwise dispense. This entire fiasco is going to be on our grandchildrens' and great grandchildrens' tabs. It's especially troublesome since it's in a region flooded in oil money (another contribution of the American people). Does anyone ever snap the pocketbook closed?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. What they should do
is reallocate the funds they've already budgeted for Israel.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. No kidding. Why can't Israel ever pay for anything? Our little welfare
state!
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
14. GO, DEMS!
:sarcasm:
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Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. Someone call Lantos and tell him to get his head out of his ass
SAN MATEO OFFICE
400 S. El Camino Real
Suite 410
San Mateo, CA 94402
Ph: 650-342-0300
or in San Francisco
Ph: 415-566-5257
Fax: 650-375-8270

WASHINGTON OFFICE
2413 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515 Ph: 202-225-3531


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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Kick
We don't need dems like Lieberman and Lantos.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
62. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. Excuse Me?
You want to explain what sounds so anti-semitic about not liking both politicians? Seriously... what disgusting accusation.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. Since Lebanon from the beginning stipulated
that they would accept the ceasefire agreement only if the bits with long-term importance wasn't binding on them, I figure that we're in our rights to offer tons of aid to Lebanon only on condition that we don't have to pay it.

"Sure, but I'm not going to actually do anything."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. America's interests are not the same as Israel's, we are due for a divorce
Edited on Sun Aug-27-06 12:42 PM by IndianaGreen
Our psychotic foreign policy of supporting everything that Israel does, and giving public support to a peace process that Israel disdains, has been a miserable failure.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. I have read this before.
The first time it was in French and Russian.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
60. WTF?
Disgusting comment. The people of NY don't seem to feel that Schmer is loyal to Israel and not to the U.S. Of course, there are lots of Jews voting in NY. Maybe they're disloyal Americans too. Comments that Jews are disloyal to the countries they live in is one of the oldest antisemitic canards in the book. Repulsive to see so much of this crap on DU.
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
63. Yeah, you just can't trust those damn Joos can you?
I seem to recall someone named Adolph Hitler saying the same thing.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. Good...
Means that the US will have no input on the ground...230 million is chump change anyway and any number of countries can fill this gap without all the 'conditions'...

If democrats, like Lantos, were smart they would oppose it and make damn sure that the 230 million go to NOLA...where the help is really needed.

Why is Lantos is on the campaign trail in Israel...why would he 'draw a line in the sand' there and not back in the good old US of A?

We weren't suppose to notice I suppose.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I have...
in the US he is considered a 'liberal'...which means he supports Choice (at the moment) and is against capital punishment (maybe), but loves Israel (unconditional)

It's interesting that in his Project Vote Smart biography his religion is listed as: Jewish?

But they also note that he has refused twice to fill out the NPAT (NATIONAL POLITICAL AWARENESS TEST).

:shrug:
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #40
88. Lantos is definitely Jewish.
Edited on Tue Aug-29-06 11:32 AM by Tesha
I'm a slight acquantance of his daughter, Katrina Lantos-Swett
and her husband, the former Democratic Congressman from NH's
2nd CD, Dick Swett. (Dick's the *ONLY* Democratic Congressman
from the 2nd CD in something like 100 years!)

She claims Judaism as her heritage although Dick's a Mormon; I
don't remember in which religion they're raising their (many) kids, but
they're a nice family (I've been to their home) and he was a *FAR*
better congressman than the fellow who replaced him, our current
Republican, Charlie Bass. Katrina also ran against Bass, but didn't
fair well at all.

I don't think I've ever personally met Tom Lantos, though.

Tesha
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. Lantos is a "Greater Israel" idiot that advocates war on Iran and Syria
Lantos supports those "Greater Israel" elements in Israel that want to keep in perpetuity big chunks of land that Israel took in 1967. A recipe for endless war!

Lantos was the biggest cheerleader in the House, second only to Tom DeLay, for a US invasion of Iraq. Lantos has also supported doing the same to Syria and Iran. Like Lieberman, Lantos remains unrepentant about his support for Bush's wars.

As to Lantos proposal regarding Lebanon, he is more than welcome to do what he says, but this is why I think this is such a hoot:

1. The Lebanese people don't want any blood money from the same country that gave Israel the cluster bombs that rained on her cities.

2. Hezbollah has plenty of cash to dispense in reconstruction projects.

3. Lantos's proposal plays into the hands of Hezbollah by further undermining the Lebanese government and making the non-Shia Lebanese people rely on the good graces of Hezbollah to rebuild their lives.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. Let's find out who his primary opponent is. Is he up any time soon?
Sounds like the logical thing to do to talk some sense into Tom.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #44
87. Congressmen are *ALWAYS* up (every two years) (NT)
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #87
97. Then who is his primary opponent? Maybe we can get some donations.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. Why do you assume he even *HAS* an opponent? :-( (NT)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
41. Lantos RRRRRAWWWWWXXXXX!!!!!!!!!
:beer:
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. Go ahead and enlist in the military, for Santos wants war with Iran
Let's see how much "Lantos RRRRRAWWWWWXXXXX!!!!!!!!!" to you when it is your ass that it is getting shot at, and you can't get out of the military after your enlistment is up because the Pentagon has extended your tour.

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. Lantos SSSSSUXXXXXX!!!!!!!!!
:puke:
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #41
85. Let's show him what ROCK really is. Just like we did Leibercon.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
42. Tom , time to retire
go away
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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. Don't let the door hit you in the beehind - just go.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
57. some interesting facts about Lantos
1991 Persian Gulf War
Main article: Gulf War
Congressman Lantos voted for the joint resolution authorizing the President to use the Armed Forces to enforce relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions concerning the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. <11> <12>

During the run up to the invasion of Iraq, Congressman Lantos played an important role through the use of a false story in convincing many Americans to support the invasion. Lantos introduced before a Congressional caucus a Kuwaiti woman, referred to as Nurse Nayirah, who claimed to have seen Iraqi soldiers killing babies by taking them from incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital. This story was in fact a fabrication, although it was repeated often in the press and helped to convince many members of Congress to vote for the resolution. The woman was in fact the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States, and had been coached on this story by the PR firm of Hill & Knowlton, which provided free office space to the Congressional Human Rights Foundation, of which Lantos was a co-chair at the time.


2003 Iraq War
Main article: 2003 Invasion of Iraq
Congressman Lantos voted to authorize military force to be used in Iraq. He has made several official statements in his capacity as a Member of Congress and the International Relations Committee, many of which have been published in the Congressional Record. <13>



Traffic accident
On May 3, 2000, Congressman Lantos was involved in a traffic accident while leaving the Congressional Parking Lot on Capitol Hill. An article on the subject, published in the Boston Globe, reported that Lantos ran over a young boy's foot and then failed to stop. According to the report, Laura Friend, who was chaperoning a group of students that included the boy, "screamed at Lantos through the half-open window". She reported, "I was saying, `Stop, stop, stop! Back up, back up, back up!' He didn't look at me. He didn't even take his hands off the wheel or anything.". Another witness, Bob McManus, said, "I don't think he even turned his head. It's appalling. You couldn't believe your eyes." According to the report, "He was assessed a $25 fine for "failure to pay full time and attention" and claimed a misunderstanding regarding a Capitol Policeman's order to pull forward. Lantos said he had no idea the boy had been hurt. ...I was driving to my office. ... There was a typical spring mob of tourists and kids and so on, Lantos said yesterday in an interview. One of the kids, horsing around, not looking or something, jumped in front of the car, stumbled, then got up and walked away. Lantos said he was then ushered forward by a Capitol Police officer, and he drove off thinking nothing had happened. Learning yesterday that the boy had been injured, Lantos said he would invite Owen's parents to Washington for lunch. <11>

Doubt has been cast on Lantos's account of the incident by assertions of the adults chaperoning the children:

"When it appeared Lantos might not stop, Tucker said, he stepped in front of the car. A Capitol Police officer twice told the principal to move out of the way or he would be arrested, Tucker and several teachers recounted.

The officer said, `Look at his license plates. He's a congressman. If we need to get in touch with him, we can find him if need be,' Friend recalled

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lantos
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. I didn't know Lantos was involved in the "babies in incubators" fabrication
which helped sell the Gulf War to the public. Why wasn't the "nurse," the Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter, charged with lying to Congress?
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #59
77. Lantos was party to the babies
thrown from incubators false story? OH WOW!
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #57
72. Good post on Lantos---people should know what he is.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. Article on Lantos involvement in
false story re. Kuwaiti incubator babies. This man should be brought to task for this deception.


http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Nayira-Witness-Incubato...
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #57
80. Concerning Lantos' accident, in running over the lad's foot, his status
as a right-wing Democrat apparently carries a lot of weight for him, as it's easy to name some liberal Democrats, who, involved in the same circumstance, would have been thrown in jail, no doubt, not to mention not making it back to Washington the next election, after being hounded out of office by right-wing idiots capitalizing on the event.

The man surely doesn't act like a Democrat.



Lantos, with the white hair, and friends
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
58. Wow-- That AIPAC stuff goes a long way....
Lantos is and has been for years, AIPAC's boy in Congress.

This is just par for the course with him.

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eccles12 Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
75. Another necon supporter who should be voted out of office. nt
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #58
79. I am just one who is disgusted with
US members of Congress who support Israel's actions and policies whether they are right or wrong.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
61. Why would Lebanon accept aid from a country that financed its destruction?
And provided a good part of the weaponry? I find the whole thing so hypocritical and weird.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
82. Lantos, you nut
This Israel First crap is getting old.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
86. Isn't that just special?
Why do so many of our United States legislators put Israel's
geopolitical aims so far ahead of the U.S.'s?

Tesha
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Capt_Nemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
95. So Lantos supports Israel
Edited on Tue Aug-29-06 09:35 PM by Capt_Nemo
yet is hellbent on handing over to Hezzbolah another massive propaganda triumph...
There realy are no bounds to human stupidity!
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
101. Are you sure this guy is a Democrat? That's a very unDemocratic
way to think; it's wrong on so many levels. People in need are people in need.
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