Is Ford Just Junk? (pushing unsold cars off on bad risk buyers)

[Robbien]

Last year, one of the major headlines in the automaking world was that No. 2 U.S. seller Ford (NYSE: F) had its credit rating cut to "junk." This July, the firm lost its second-place slot in U.S. auto sales to Toyota (NYSE: TM). Earlier this month, with car buyers apparently agreeing that its cars are as junky as its credit, Ford again took the headlines when it announced dramatic production cuts.

And today, the company detailed another plan designed to clear out unsold inventory and boost market share in one fell swoop -- a plan that, sadly, is also based on junk.

Management intends to clear out its bloated inventories of 2006 model-year cars and trucks by targeting buyers with lousy credit histories. Ford intends to offer everyone, including so-called "subprime" borrowers, 0% financing for up to six years.

http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2006/mft06082415.htm?ref=foolwatch

[maseman]

1. Is Ford Junk?

Junk, shit, crap, garbage, trash, puke, pile of bolts, turd, etc. There are many adjectives to describe Ford.

Found on Road Dead. Flip Over Read Directions. Fucked Over Rebuilt Dodge.

They are pawing off cars and trucks on people with lousy credit? How wrong.

[burythehatchet]

2. Fix or Repair Daily

[Skink]

4. FIAT -Fix it again Tony.

[Captain Hilts]

111. In Russia, Fix It Again Tovarich... nt

[TrogL]

69. Found On Road Dead

[gmtmaster]

100. Beat me to it...

[sofa king]

73. Friend Of Reich's Dictator

http://www.thememoryhole.org/fordnazi.htm

Henry Ford's reward from Hitler finally came in July 1938, when on his seventy-fifth birthday he was awarded the Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle. Ford was the first American and the fourth person in the world to receive this medal, which was the highest decoration that could be given to any non-German citizen. Benito Mussolini, another of Hitler's financiers, had been decorated with the same honor earlier that year.

[wordpix2]

44. I fail to see how selling to risky buyers will help Ford out of their mess

of their own making. They continued to build gas guzzlers while Honda and Toyota worked on hybrids and fuel sippers. Now Ford turns to selling to high risk people? :shrug:

Ford will end up having to hire workers to make threatening phone calls to collect. If I owned Ford stock, I would dump it as fast as I can. Like BushCo, this is a corporation that makes one mistake after another.

[OzarkDem]

52. Bad debt collection is being "outsourced" these days

Ford will probably be able to hire a stadium full of collectors in India to do the job for pennies each.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

59. In part the new bankruptcy law is involved here

Before if a person was overextended and near filing they couldn't get more credit. Now with it being so much harder to file and write off your bad debt, unscrupulous lenders now have a higher chance of a piece of your pie during settlement. It appears if you have a crap product that won't sell it's a smaller risk than just sitting on it in this case.

[liberalhistorian]

91. Fucked Over Road Disaster,

Fucker Only Runs Downhill, Fucking Order Repairs Daily, Fucking Owner's Real Dumb..............:evilgrin:

And those all came from professional mechanics that I've known, during my very unfortunately, expensive, hair-pulling experience of owning a POS Ford Escort. I was at the shop so often, they designated a special area just for me.

[Fierce]

3. *shrug*

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never had a bad Ford.

[natrat]

16. camaro iroc- i reak of cologne

[physioex]

34. Me too....

I agree Ford cars aren't great and many had bad reputation like the Tempo, Escort, and Pinto. However I think their FSeries trucks are good and when they do break, their parts are very easy to find, cheap, and easy to work on. I drive a Ford with 160K+ and still going strong but I do have some automotive skills and know how to take care of cars.

[B3Nut]

47. 91+ Escorts are good, solid cars

Though it's largely due to the fact that they were based on Mazda platforms, first the 323 and then the Protege. I had a 2000 Escort ZX2 that was fantastic despite sometimes-horrific neglect. The only catastrophic failure was a timing belt break at 130,000, because I didn't change it at 100K like I was supposed to. Fortunately the Zetec engine is a freewheeler so it didn't get damaged. (The new Duratec engines are interference engines, but have timing chains instead of timing belts. Good engines.)

I drive a Kia Rio5 now...and I'm anal about maintaining it by the book. No more abused/neglected cars for me.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[PinkyisBlue]

62. I had a bad 1985 Escort

It hit 85,000-90,000 miles and one thing after another started going wrong. I like to keep cars a long time, and I believe cars should last at least 150,000 miles. Ford is another junky company out to make a fast buck on an inferior product. Since they have recently purchased Volvo, I would expect the quality of Volvos to decline quickly.

I'll never buy another Ford.

On edit: The above Escort had problems before 85,000 miles too, but at 85,000 miles, the parts started disintegrating. Cheap car (but not inexpensive).

[liberalhistorian]

92. I had the exact same problem with my

Ford Escort! It was only four years old when I bought it, and had about 78,000 miles on it. As soon as it hit around 82,000 miles, the fun began. First, the transmission went out and needed to be replaced; I had to drive one of my parent's cars for seven months before getting the money to replace it. Then it seemed as if something went wrong every other damned week, literally; I was spending more on repairs than the monthly car payment.

The nightmare finally ended when a $25 part in the fan belt failed, which caused the engine to nearly blow up. It ended up with a badly cracked block, blown gaskets and bad pistons because of it. I still had over a year of payments, but by then I just said, fuck it, I'm not putting one more goddamned dime into the no-good piece of shit. It would have cost more to repair than what the car was even worth, anyway, and I'd spent more in repairs and towing costs than I'd spent on the entire car loan at that point. Just the week before the engine fiasco, I'd replaced the alternator and starter, which, for me, had been quite expensive.

It sat in the side yard by our driveway for the next eighteen months until I finally paid off the loan. The day the loan was paid in full, I wanted to set the car on fire and enjoy watching it burn, but common sense managed to get the upper hand. I called a junk yard and very happily watched them tow the fucking useless piece of garbage away. It didn't even have 85,000 miles on it! And I heard similar horror stories from other Ford owners as well. I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER again own another Ford, not even a brand-new one. EVER.

The sad thing is that I remember when Ford was actually a quality car maker; I remember the mavericks and mustangs and when my parents had them. They were great cars, and the very first car I ever owned was a '74 Maverick I got in 1989 for three hundred bucks; it was very reliable, even in really cold weather. Too bad Ford ain't what it used to be.

[PinkyisBlue]

108. Yes, I believe Ford does not use quality parts in their cars (at least

from my experience and that of my dad). A Ford car is fine if you buy it new and plan to keep it for a couple of years. But it's not a good choice if you buy it used and/or want it to last for several years.

Another vehicle I wouldn't purchase again is a Dodge Caravan (multiple problems occurred in a 1992 used one I bought several years ago, one thing after another).
I have talked with others who say these also tend to be problematic.

Now I have a used Toyota Corolla, bought with 58,000 miles over a year ago, and we haven't had any problems with it at all.

[apnu]

64. 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid here

Runs like a champ, I've already put 11k miles on it.

Oddly enough, since buying it, I've only seen one other FEH on the road. Sad, its a good small sized SUV that gets as good mileage as the ford Escort, which I also had, a 99 to be exact and that car was a beauty.

Personally, I think Ford's problems are, as usual, mis management and a lack of imagination. Though the FEH was a step in the right direction, they totally bungled selling the product (Kermit branding not-with-standing)

[Fierce]

66. I'm thinking of buying one of those.

I'm glad to hear your're happy with it. I've got 145K on my 2001 Ford Focus wagon, and will be looking to upgrade in the next couple years.

[tinrobot]

77. Love my 2007 FEH

Plus, the Ford dealer was willing to bargain on the thing (unlike the Toyota dealer who was charging $3K over list for a Prius... with a two month wait)

I'm starting to see a lot of them here in Los Angeles. There are two others on my street alone.

[liberalpress]

97. Well, I'm in Tennessee..

... so you probably wont see me, but rest assures I'll be in the '05 red FEH, marvelling at how the engine actually shuts down at a traffic light and roars to instant accelleration once you put on the gas.

[Vinca]

5. Found On Road Dead. nt

[ShortnFiery]

18. Fix Or Repair Daily!

:hi:

[Ragin_mad]

39. First On Race Day

To the garage :D :D

[Oldtimeralso]

107. Frequent Overhaul, Rapid Depreciation n/t

[Coyote_Bandit]

6. It costs money

to keep unsold cars in inventory. The goal is to dump these cars as quickly as possible to limit those costs. Ford wouldn't be in this position if they offered better cars and/or had a smaller inventory to clear. Since they do, they have to open the doors to willing consumers. There are increased interest costs charged to subprime borrowers. Even so that may not be sufficient to compensate for higher default rates and increased collections costs. So the bet is that those costs will not exceed the costs of maintaining the existing inventory.

[Robbien]

7. Yes, they are hoping this will raise their stock value now

and later deal with the default fallout.

Hey, it worked for a while with the housing market.

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. Unless Ford is issuing new stock

the impact of their stock value is largely psychological and limited primarily to stock market participants. Stock prices reflect market information and the psychology of market investors.

Company issues stock and sells it to the public during its initial public offering (IPO). A buys stock at IPO for X dollars. In the simplest terms those X dollars go to the company. A holds the stock for a period of time before selling it. A then sells the stock to B for Y dollars. The difference between X and Y is the amount of gain or loss that A realizes for tax purposes. A receives Y dollars and the company is not directly impacted by the sale. The ownership interest in the company remains unchanged (1 share). The price differential represents a change in market expectations for future earnings which is usually measured in terms of dividend cash flow and corporate profits. Market trades between investors do not affect capital available to the company. The company acquires capital when the stock is issued (IPO).

Companies usually can opt to issue new stock to acquire additional capital but they generally hesitate to do so. It sends a signal that they require additional capital and lack sufficient financing. It also has the effect of diluting existing ownership interests. Assume a company has 100 shares outstanding and issued and that you own one share. If that company were to issue an additional 100 shares your ownership iterest would be diluted and with it your right to future earnings.

I suspect that the survival of Ford Motor Company will be related to their ability to cur their losses and discontinue product lines that do not sell while simultaneously developing vehicles that target niche markets. Ford trucks sell well. It may well be their best product line looking into the future. For many people a truck is a necessary working vehicle. Meanwhile SUV's are becoming less and less desirable due to their high gas consumption. After becoming dominant in the truck market Ford might do well to focus on mid-size sedans. This is one market segment where many models and consumer choices were eliminated as SUV's became popular. That would seem to suggest market opportunities as consumers flee from the SUVs.

Just a few off the top of the head thoughts.....

[Robbien]

31. I never said that Ford is trying to make its stock look better

so that its own bottom line is better. Most companies these days are seeking to make their stock perform better for its shareholders so that upper management gets their nice fat bonuses. Its all about stock ownership, not company worth.

That is why they are doing this short sighted sale to high risk buyers. In the short run, shareholders are happy and management is happy. Ford itself is shooting itself in the foot.

In the US there seems to be an industry wide view to looking for the short run stockholder profit while long run research, development and production gets shafted. Which is probably why many feel US cars are "Junk".

[screembloodymurder]

46. You might want to check into who is buying Ford stock.

It appears some very big players are betting on Ford to turn things around. A year from now, I expect to see $10+/share.

[Tace]

19. They've Probably Already Sold The Paper

So they won't have a liability to defaults by the subprime borrowers.

[ConcernedCanuk]

8. I have one of the last REAL Ford trucks - a 1979 F150 4x4 extended cab

.
.
.

It still has mostly all of it's original paint

And the frame is still solid

It has of course some "cancer" around the wheel wells and cab corners,

But still basically solid.

The CARPET is even close to mint

I bought this for 3 grand (Canadian bucks mind ya) 16 years ago - and have used it daily ever since.

I don't do high mileage, but I camp alot - so it is a very functional vehicle for me - wouldn't save me a penny to pay the insurance for a second vehicle for around town - -

At the same time - even if I had the $$$ I wouldn't buy ANYTHING new from the "Big 3" (Maybe we should rename them the "Shrinking 3" ????????)

Anyhoo

Pictures can be found of my '79 at numerous campsites if you just click on my eyes below -

[Kolesar]

10. My coworker gets around that by underinsuring his second car

He only has US$100,000 liability insurance on it. He has enough savings that I think that is a risky idea. In a suit, the plaintiff might not settle for $100,000 and then go for his accounts. Nationwide won't even write a policy for less than $300,000 (which is what I have).

[northernsoul]

12. That's a really bad idea

I talked to a plaintiff's attorney who told me that it is foolish for somebody with any amount of personal assets outside their house and vehicle to carry less than $1M in liability coverage.

[Kolesar]

40. The staff at my insurance company thought I was daff to quote $500,000

"Let me tell you", he said, "most of the claims we get around here are for fender-benders in a parking lot". His theme was that I should not bother.

The quote for $500,000 was almost double that for $300,000. Gee, maybe that makes sense--twice the premium for twice the risk. Of course, I wonder how many pay-outs Nationwide makes between $300k & $500k? :hmmm:

I have been rationalizing keeping $300,000 coverage by telling myself that I drive slow.

Thanks for the insights.

[ConcernedCanuk]

13. $1,000,000 is the min. coverage up here, and I don't even have collision

.
.
.

A second vehicle would cost me 400 bucks a year for insurance,

never mind the extra maintenance and parking . .

I only spend around $500 a year on gas

I did the math.

[Kolesar]

41. How about a nice electrified bicycle?

Designed and built by Canadians, no less!
We have been discussing these in the DU Bicycling forum.
www.bionx.ca

[ConcernedCanuk]

83. Do they come with snow tires?

.
.
.

Summer I needs the truck for camping - doesn't get many miles in the winter -

Sumthing tells me a bike of ANY kind might not be a good idea to rely on as transportation in our Northern Ontario winter climate . . .

[buddysmellgood]

30. We have a neighborhood truck. 1980 Ford F150, 200,000 miles and going

strong. Same cancer on the wheel wells. Everybody borrows this truck for just about everything. We have it tuned twice per year and she just keeps on hauling the wood etc. I'm not intereted in Ford cars, but I don't think GM is any better, it's just bigger.

[Upfront]

9. No Way

I have a 2005 F-150 and it is a great truck. No regrets here. I would buy Ford again and I do not work for them.

[TheDebbieDee]

24. Same here....my last three cars were manufactured

by Ford Motor Company. An 86 Escort, a 94 Topaz and I currently drive an 02 Taurus. I have been more than satisfied with their performance, durability and dependability.

They must be putting Fords together a heluva lot better now than they did in the 70s.

[screembloodymurder]

43. They do make a nice truck -

even the interior seems better.

[Kolesar]

11. The Motley Fool picked an attention-grabbing, provocative title

And I see all the America-haters took the bait.

[Telly Savalas]

29. Disagreeing with Ford's management constitutes anti-Americanism?

Whatever you say...

[Psephos]

33. Definition of cognitive dissonance:

Hating on the American carmakers and driving foreign brands.

BUT...

Passionately and righteously arguing for more jobs and better compensation for American autoworkers.

Peace.

[OzarkDem]

53. How do we define a "foreign" car these days?

With so many of the so called American made cars being manufactured in Mexico or Canada it becomes confusing. Add to that the fact that many of the "foreign" cars are made here in the US - like Honda, etc.

Seriously, I'm confused. I want to support American jobs, but its getting more and more difficult to determine.

[Psephos]

68. That's easy

Buy a Ford, GM, or Chrysler assembled in the US by UAW workers. Although many of the parts used are made globally, assembly remains the economic linchpin of the Big Three and their ability to honor their labor contracts.

Second best, buy a Nissan, Honda, or BMW assembled in America. You won't be helping the Big Three meet their medical or pension obligations, but it's better than nothing.

Peace.

[Upfront]

74. My Truck

was made in Virginia by UAW workers. I even left there sticker on the window because they built it so well. Never been back to the dealer for anything. Now Ford is closing that plant. Dam shame.

[hogwyld]

36. For some odd reason

A lot of the people here would rather see the big three pack it all up, because they despise the capitalist pigs running the show. So what if a few million union (democratic) brethren are sacrificed for "the cause". Sometimes I really wonder if these same people would relish the thought of an American collapse, just so they can pin it on *.

[Richard Steele]

42. Those Ford workers have already been "sacrificed"... BY FORD.

FORD management has screwed those good folks;
FORD management has gutted that company to line its personal pockets;
FORD management is now laying off those thousands of workers;
FORD management is making the workers pay for its FATAL
combination of greed and incompetence.


For some odd reason, YOU start throwing around the "Commie"
rhetoric when anyone says Ford Management aren't good people.

FORD is already a JUNK-rated company, and it AIN'T because
some CommieHippies called them mean names on the internets.

[hogwyld]

54. Point out to me where I mentioned the word "Commie"

It all boils down to people, maybe yourself included, that prefer to buy a foreign car than to buy an American made product. All of those job cuts are a consequence of reduced demand. And for every assemblyline worker sacrificed by buying a japanese or german car, how many more job cuts are there for the parts suppliers? I'm sure Motorcraft, and Delco as well as a multitude of other parts suppliers have cut jobs as well. I will always buy American cars to keep fellow Americans working, and getting good union wages.

[Richard Steele]

57. Why? I made no such claim; I said "commie" RHETORIC.

And the problem very obviously DOES NOT "boil down to people... that prefer
to buy a foreign car than to buy an American made product".

Such simplistic, jingoistic explanations do not BEGIN
to account for the difficulty that Ford finds itself in,
here in the year 2006.

[fujiyama]

78. I recall reading

that the Camry has more built here in the US than a certain recent Ford model.

Toyota has several major plants here and are building more.

Ford's recent problems are of their own doing. Ford and GM both became incredibly lazy, have horribly shortsighted management, and Ford in particular really sits on its quality issues for years not confronting them. I remember reading the statements by the quality guy at Ford and he was arrogant and in denial. They spend more time and money lobbying the US government than actually innovating.

So, for the sake of its workers, I hope they turn it around, but I see few here blaming anyone but their awful management - and their management deserves the criticism it is getting.

[liberalhistorian]

94. The drop in Big Three market share

is their own damn fault. It's the result of years of bad management, bad marketing, making low-quality, unreliable cars that are an expensive nuisance for people to own, etc., etc. If they made a quality, dependable car then people would buy them. And they need to quit making cars people don't want, as they're doing, and start making reliable cars people do want.

[susanna]

109. So, it's okay if workers are hurt...

...if it's Ford management's fault?

on edit: credit where credit is due.

[jakefrep]

72. I honestly don't understand the mentality of those on DU...

.who seem to be cheerleading for the demise of the Big 3. I really don't think we want to see that happen.

FWIW, I prefer to buy American-branded cars. I have had little trouble, and if I were to have a problem, I have a local dealer to fix it. Can't say that about any import models.

[hogwyld]

75. Amen!

No matter how much we hate bushco, I for one don't want to see the total economic collapse of this nation, just so we can say it was *'s fault. For those hoping for the demise of the auto industry, shame on you. Next time you want to go buy a toyota, look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are part of the solution, or part of the problem.

[liberalhistorian]

95. Maybe you'd like to pay our

constant repair and towing bills from owning shitty American-made cars, then? I've owned Big Three cars and Toyotas, and Toyotas are so much more durable and reliable, much as it pains me to say that since I'd much rather own an American car. But they don't make quality cars anymore, with the exception of some truck models and I don't drive trucks. It's their own damn fault, not ours.

[hogwyld]

96. I own 3 American cars

I own a Chevy truck that I use for camping, towing, home improvement supplies, etc. Never a single problem with a 145k. My wife has a Dodge Caravan that has avout 60k so it's pretty new, but have yet to make any repairs. My daily driver is a ford focus with 100k. Not a single problem, and it gets great gas mileage. I keep the oil changed, and maintain them. Maybe you got a bad one, or I got some good ones. But I'm doing my part to keep a million of my fellow Americans out of the unemployment lines.

[Lost4words]

105. I followed your philosophy for years, until they outsource their IT!

For Many years I supported US workers and companies. Even by knowingly buying veichels of less quality value and dependability.

But nobody said a word when US companies sold out US workers to cheep out of country labor.

Guess what , if I dont have an income I cant buy their god-dam cars. But thats OK 'cause if I ever have the ability to purchase new again, it wont be a USA make it will be a Toyota.

Toyota didnt take the ability to earn a living from me and countless others but US companies jumped on the chance at cheep labor even at the expense of the their long term loyal employees.

As far as I am concerned, American corporations can die a slow death it wont effect my situation. Nothing from nothing is nothing!

These corporations pay very little taxes already, those who havent moved their HQ's off shore to avoid taxes, so what would be the loss? More American jobs you say? Hey guess what, he plans are already in place to eliminate the few that remain.

Even the first Henry Ford knew a product without a market is doomed, and paid his workers enough to buy FORD cars. Probably the only good thing he ever did and his motivation was sales not improving the conditions of the common man.

[bhikkhu]

106. same sentiment, but I wish the cars were different

simpler, lighter, more efficient, etc. My formative years were the late seventies, when the cars of the big three were monstrously inefficient and unreliable. Japanese cars at the time were, as they say now again, ten years ahead. I would say they are more equivalent now, but would rather have the option of a basic four cylinder, two seats, no abs or air bags, power nothing. Nobody builds one here, and if they did it would be illegal to sell it.

[liberalhistorian]

93. Well, excuse the hell out of people for

wanting to buy and drive cars that are actually reliable, dependable and durable, cars they don't have to spend tons of money on in repairs, towing, cars they don't have to constantly worry about something going wrong with them. Even simple repairs nowadays are expensive and it's a royal pain in the ass to own a car that's not dependable and durable.

It's not our fault that the Big Three have been shooting themselves in the foot for the past two decades, with bad management decisions, including making cars with cheap, crummy part that are unreliable, bad marketing practices and decisions, focusing on SUVs when they knew that gas prices and environmental concerns would eventually cause a severe drop in SUV purchases, not making the cars people want and making cars people don't want, etc., etc. It's THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT. Especially since they'd been warned of impending disasters caused by their management and practices for many years.

It's the basic rule of capitalism and the free market whose virtues the pukes love to trumpet when it benefits THEM; make a quality, dependable product people want and they will buy it. If you make bad products people don't want, as they've been doing, then expect to fall drastically behind other manufacturers. They have no one but themselves to blame.

[alarimer]

15. Well they have nothing I would want to buy

regardless of quality. they are either boring (Ford 500, Fusion) or too big or gas guzzling (all those trucks and SUVs).

[anotherdrew]

20. well I'm going to see about picking up a Focus

seems like a nice car, just about the only small car they make.

[B3Nut]

48. If you want to see what the Focus should be,

check out the European Focus on www.ford.co.uk . Also check out the Fiesta and Ka there too. Ford would be in better shape if they'd let their own countrymen have their best cars. They give the Europeans the best designs and we get warmed-over table scraps. The US Focus is the 1998 Euro design with a nose job (Europe had the first-gen Focus for 2 years before it was introduced stateside.) I love the handling, but the fuel economy of the new Focus isn't as good as my Escort was, so they went backwards technologically instead of advancing.

That's why I didn't replace my Escort ZX2 with another Ford. I still miss that ZX2, I loved that car.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[susanna]

84. The problem with importing the Euro Focus...

...just so you know: it's considered a mid-level car over there and goes for WAY more money than the U.S. version. It isn't a cheap entry level vehicle over there; not by a long shot. It's actually quite refined.

In the U.S., the market for small cars has historically been "value buyers" (i.e., pay the least amount of $$ for the least amount of car). In short, the Euro Focus is much too expensive for the U.S. market's recent mentality - seriously. (On reflection, I do believe Americans will pay more for mid-lux class economy models someday soon, as gas prices keep rising, so I hope they consider making these vehicles available.)

All in all, I personally don't think Ford management can be totally faulted for responding to the large vehicle whims of the U.S. market until gas went north. The market you are in is...the market you are in. If everyone is buying SUVs, what do you build?

(I could argue that Ford showed SOME foresight by bringing to market the Escape Hybrid long before their fellow American competitors did. But that's just me...)

[noonwitch]

50. I love my 2005 Focus

I got the SES version, because I had an X-plan.

It came with a 6-disc cd player, heated seats, a spoiler on the back and A/C. It gets pretty good mileage, I get about 35 on the highway and about 22-25 in the city. If you get a stick shift, you'll get even better mileage.

[newportdadde]

58. How does the X-plan work, is it really a better deal then haggling?

[noonwitch]

71. My uncle gave me one of his X-Plans

A-plans from direct relatives are a better deal, but for me to have gotten one of those, I would have had to put the car in my mom's name.

The X-plan basically gave me about a $2500 discount. In my case, I got the deluxe version of the Focus for the basic version's price. I got the spoiler, the 6-disc player, the heated seats for free. I got a $17,000 car for about $13, 500.

X-plans are for friends and family. A-plans are for direct family only-my uncle can give them to his kids, my mom, my grandpa, etc., but not to neices and nephews.

[physioex]

35. Not really....

I have always been a big fan of the Mustang. Especially the Shelby Mustang. They also brought back the Shelby 350-GTH....The Hertz version.

[alarimer]

80. I think that fell under the category of gas-guzzling for me!

Or too expensive. Either way, I looked exclusively at "foreign" cars and ended up with a Mazda (but Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda, so it is almost a Ford anyway).

[susanna]

86. I think Ford ownership of Mazda is closer to 40%. n/t

[susanna]

85. Have you seen the webumentary (?)....

...of the release of the Shelby GT-H to dealers? If you want more info, PM me.

on edit: identifying info would be good

[Porcupine]

17. Well the Rangers just suck.

The fleet trucks at work are all Ford Rangers in years from 1997 to 2005. They all suck. My '97 chevy S-10 is a smoother quieter ride and handles better than any of the newer Fords. Also we have had repeated problems with alignment and rear cab windows breaking.

Ford needs to get its act together.

[Sherman A1]

21. My 98 Ranger runs just fine

[susanna]

28. Hubby has a '93 Ranger here with 175,000+ miles on it...

It is still in great condition. That thing has been a little workhorse for us. No complaints at all.

[sleipnir]

22. Why not offer DOUBLE MINUS PRIME to good credit histories?

That might move vehicles.

If you have good to great credit, Ford would offer you 1% to 2% interest paid on the vehicle. Pay people to buy the car on credit. No early repay would be offered, but who would want to repay when you're earning 2% interest on the value of your loan each month.

[Joe Bacon]

23. Where's a Ford Hybrid?

in their SUV. :crazy:

They STILL don't understand why people would buy a Prius or a DC Smart Car.

[tinrobot]

76. I'm getting almost 40mpg in my Escape Hybrid

It's a great car, don't knock it. The Escape is by no means a large SUV, but it's bigger than a Prius or a Civic, and it can haul stuff. I traded a '96 Cherokee for it, and the Escape has the same cargo capacity as the Cherokee with double the gas mileage. Last week, I drove from Mill Valley to Los Angeles on less than a tank of gas.

Perhaps Ford should make a smaller hybrid to compete with the Prius, but, as Honda is discovering, it's really hard to make a Prius-killer. Ford did a smart thing by taking this segment of the market as their own, and they're doing quite well. I see a ton of Escape Hybrids here in LA.

[susanna]

88. Some folks need more room.

Including me. I'm buying an Escape Hybrid next week. Sorry for dirtying your idea of what a hybrid should be. :crazy:

[high density]

25. I'm annoyed by the lack of decent vehicles available

Every car is either huge or generally overpriced for what you get.

[Acadia Blue]

26. Have not had a days trouble with our 5 year old ford

[MadMaddie]

27. I will never buy a Ford Again....Ever...Ever...x infiniti....

I purchased a 2001 Ford Focus manual....I ended up replacing the clutch after 3 years....had engine problems...etc...and the list goes on.....

[Doremus]

32. The one and only Ford I owned was a Taurus. Bought it brand new.

Got a little over 36K miles on it and the plastic(!) drain plug cracked while I was on the highway. One frozen motor later the car was towed to the junkyard ... the warranty had expired less than month earlier. I still had a few months left on the note to pay. Their regional office said too bad, so sad.

Vowed then and there never to buy another one of their lousy products again -- and I haven't.

[RebelOne]

38. I am now on my 2nd Ford Taurus.

I love the Taurus. Unfortunately, you got a lemon.

[0007]

37. Buy Blue Hippo go into business with new computer

buy good Toyota with cash. Fuck Ford.

[outofbounds]

45. Ford Sux

I've had 3. The first p o s was a Tempo. Nickle and dime you to death car. The next was 1989 F-150 with in-line six. The engine was tough as nails, but the rest always had a problem. Water pumps, solenoids, master cylinder things you shouldn't have to worry about for a 150k mi. The last is still in the driveway. 1997 F-150 100k mi blown engine. Replaced it 3000 miles later, blown engine, oil pump. I will never own another ford. I love the new mustang, but I know its a p o s. If it only had GM engine and parts. Ford parts are twice as high as GM and way harder to find. Very few Ford parts available aftermarket and very costly if they are. My next full size truck will be a Toyota. Get off your ass American auto manufacturers. The american public showed you what they thought of your products in the 80's, guess we will have to do it again.
:mad:

[plasticsundance]

49. What Ford is doing is unethical business wise

It is promoting putting people into bankruptcy.

Did I really read on this thread that some DUers think criticizing Ford is un-American? What utter uninformed balderdash. First off, in a global market all auto companies are not separate entities. Secondly, it is good news when Honda decides to put up a factory in the US. Honda is putting up a factory in West Georgia that will create 2000 jobs. Toyota is also putting up a factory on the border of Alabama and Georgia. It creates jobs for people in the US. Understand? Thirdly, the only ones hurting the American workers and consumers are the corporations, which have sunk so low as to become outright predatory. Those criticizing Ford have no power to change anything for a company that gets away with not following the laws of economics.

Here's a memo for the uninformed flag wavers:

http://carscarscars.blogs.com/index/2004/03/who_owns_who.html">Who owns who

So, you're buying an English car huh? That fancy Jaguar with its birds eye maple... so much nicer than any American car. In fact, no American company can compete with its elegance you say. Well, hold on to your bowler because, as nice as the Jaguar is, it's now a Ford.

The automotive world is a complicated place now and with consolidation hitting everyone it's no surprise that car companies are gobbling up each other faster than ever before.

Now, just because Volvo sold their car division to Ford it doesn't mean you can get a Mustang engine in a S60 sedan. Nor does it mean you can get Ford Focus with an Aston Martin engine. But it does mean these companies with bigger parents have a better chance of surviving long-term because of better financial stability. In fact there's a good chance SAAB wouldn't be making new designs if it weren't for GM and I don't think Volvo would have

Now, for all the flag wavers waving the flag as fast as they can you'd think their arms would fall out of their arm socket, click on the link and see who owns who.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson

[OzarkDem]

55. Agree, its confusing

I want to support auto workers in the US, but its getting harder and harder to tell which cars really do that. If I choose to buy a Honda or Toyota or Volvo or BMW that is made in the US by US workers, isn't that ok?

I'm not being snarky, I would truly like some guidance here.

[fujiyama]

79. Personally I agree with you

Toyota and others are providing jobs here in the US now, but I don't believe their assembly workers are unionized though. They are still compensated well though.

I suppose if you wanted to buy a car that was built by unionized workers, then you might be more inclined to go with a big three car. Personally, I drive a Saturn and at 42,000 miles, I'm really pleased with it. It hasn't given me any problems so far.

My friend has a Ford and it's been in the shop a lot. When it drives, it's actually pretty fun to drive...but it has given him a lot of problems.

[One_Life_To_Give]

65. Not necessarily unethical

Discounting the interest rate associated with poor credit scores is just a price reduction strategy. It doesn't necessarily mean they have relaxed the rules for writing loans.

[susanna]

87. What I find curious at DU is:

Globalization and its ugly realities being swept aside when it comes to U.S. auto manufacturers.

It kinda cracks me up that much of DU anguishes over globalization and outsourcing for every industry EXCEPT automotive. It's quite interesting, but I still am not sure what to make of it.

[EnviroBat]

51. FORD = Bad News

I have never had any luck with American cars in general, and Fords were the worst! I was a Ford mechanic for a few years, (until I started liking myself again). The simple truth is the cars are "engineered" to fail on some level at certain time intervals. Fords philosophy has always been simple, once you buy one of their vehicles, you continue to buy it. I believe GM is on the same page. Why the hell are US automakers unwilling to engineer long-term quality into their vehicles. I'm sorry to say it, but my last vehicle purchase was a Suzuki. 7 year/100,000 mi warranty, and the little thing is rock solid! Hey Ford/GM, stop selling crap, and maybe you'll be able to keep American auto workers in a job...

[TrogL]

112. The head gasket on a Windstar is designed to blow every 70000 km

I've got 200000 on mine so I'm probably due for another one pretty soon.

[newportdadde]

56. I bought a new mustang back in 99 which I still drive.

Issues:

Current mileage 78k.

At about 7500 miles the windshield wiper fluid pump went out. - warrantly replacement.

At about 50k miles the dash cluster odometer started to blink of, blink on etc, it was still recording mileage but it might be off for a day or two at a time. - was covered by extended warranty.

At about 50k miles my driver side window glass starting going off track. 50 dollar waranty diagnostic and they told me it wasn't covered take it to a glass shop. Its still messed up, if I leave the window down when I open and close the door it goes off track.

Unknown issues/problems: 6 months ago when it got real cold in KC and was icy/snowy I manually shifted my automatic transmission to help with traction at a stop light. Upon getting out on the interstate the car would buck very bad as it tried to shift to over drive. After getting home its never done it again, no idea was it was, maybe because it was so cold outside the fluid got gummed up, no idea.

2k miles ago I started getting hicups at highway speed, no RPM changes but just these little surges. Most noticeable while running the air. I took it in and Ford could find nothing wrong. So I'm just driving it and I'll just pretend that I can't feel the surge.

My father on the other hand has my old 93 Ford Ranger. I got this truck used in 96 with 45k miles on it. The truck now has 170k miles on it. In 125k miles of driving the ONLY thing ever done to it was to change the oil up until last month when it had a less then 100 buck repair.

Its a crap shoot.

[TrogL]

113. Check your head gasket

[yellowcanine]

60. '96 Ford Ranger, 4 cylinder, 5-speed, 235,000 miles. Don't tell me

Ford can't make a good vehicle. It has run rings around my previous compact pickup (Toyota) in terms of reliability.

On edit: Oh yeah - the Toyota rusted out also. That is something the Ranger has not done.

[LeftHander]

61. I dunno....I'd do a 2006 pony...

Sweet car...I like the Mustang...rwd, manual, leather....pretty cool.

Zero Percent might tip my scales....

[Bombero1956]

67. Here's mine

I'm now on my second Mustang. I've only had 1 major problem with the 1999 GT I just sold to my brother in law. At 60,000 miles I had to replace the engine. Now I should add that my son was driving the car and while showing off over revved the engine past redline and dropped the clutch. He spun a bearing and it required a new long block. It was mostly covered by my extended service agreement. Other than that no problems. I now have this 2006 GT that is fun as hell to drive. My son has his own car now so I'm the only one who drives it.

[amandabeech]

82. You look like one happy motorist there!

Enjoy yourself!

I have an older Jeep Comanche Pickup. Lousy gas mileage, but no problems with 110,000. It is also a regular lend-out vehicle to friends. I eat well from moves and trips to Lowe's.

[Bombero1956]

89. happiness is

never having to lend your car to those who don't value it as you do :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[amandabeech]

99. If I had a car like yours, I wouldn't lend it out either.

With the dingies, dents and rust on an '89, I don't mind so much.

My Dad bequeathed the truck to me when it was fairly new, and I think that I'm finally ready to say goodbye to it. My Dad was always ready and willing to help others. In a way, lending it out or driving it myself for others honors his memory.

[One_Life_To_Give]

63. IOW they are cutting the price of their cars.

[earth mom]

70. Never a problem with the Ford F150 we owned in the early 90s-

we racked up 125K miles before we sold it and never one problem. I've been looking at car prices lately and see a lot of late 80s, early 90s Ford F150/250/350 trucks and cargo vans listed that have high miles which gives me confidence about them. I figure if they can get that many miles on em, they are pretty much just like the truck we used to own: dependable. I really think the issue with Ford are their cars/sedans-not their trucks or vans. Just my 2 cents. :shrug:

[fujiyama]

81. That's the impression I've got as well

Many of the complaints I've read are from owners of their entry compacts and other smaller and mid sized vehicles. But in general, their attitude on quality doesn't seem right. I know Toyota has had some recent issues with quality, but the way they tackle the issues head on seems very different from the way Ford goes about it (deny deny deny, then after some time become extremely defensive about it). Part of the issue may be the government regulation as well. This government doesn't give a shit about protecting consumers in any way at all. In contrast, the Japanese government was looking at bringing criminal charges for neglect in the case of several Toyota executives recently.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

90. All I can say it from American Car Companies (GM) are idiots

at least from my experience, if Ford's plan to sell bloated inventory is anything like the way GM had their big sell about 3 years where they claimed to finance anyone their not going to sell many vehicles. My example A Chevy dealership near me was having a sale on Cavaliers for $8500 dollars, this was an even further discount from what the GM had been advertising. Anyways I qualify for a GM employee discount so that was going to knock another 500 dollars off the price. With this price I couldn't go wrong buying one, so I pick out the car I wanted and filled out the paper work to get financing. I had never bought a new car before so and I pretty much had no credit established, and that was kind of the point, so I had $4k I was putting down which I can't see why they wouldn't finance me 4000 over 2 years then. The sales guy comes back from the finance dept and tells me they can't finance me for $4k, because I didn't' have enough credit established. I in turn ask how much they would I finance me for, (I actually had enough money I could buy the car cash, but I was doing this to establish credit, of course they didn't need to know this) he replies $1K, I say if I came in here with $7k cash which I can I want the car for that price without any financing. I offer to buy the car for that price and he goes to ask his manager and the reply is no, I tell the sales guy the dealership just lost a sale being idiots over financing for $4K with someone who had steady employment and could afford the payments.

[davsand]

98. I drive American made cars. Period.

I think Ford corporate policy makers suck, no doubt. I also think that I'd rather walk than park anything except an American made car in the parking lots at the local union halls.

We had a GM plant in a nearby town that got closed during the Ronnie Ray-gun years. I saw what the UAW did for those workers and I will never forget it. I will not buy a car that is not made by companies with a UAW contract to this day.

I'm not some huge "flag waver" nor am I holding some kind of mentality that there is anything mechanically deficient in products made by non-union companies. What I am is a labor union member that fully believes in solidarity with ALL unions.

I shop at grocery stores that allow unions and I refuse to set foot in a Walmart because they are so adamant against unions. I try and buy clothing that is made in the US whenever I can, and I actively look for other American made products.

It might sound odd to some, but I honestly do think that is part and parcel of being a member of the Labor Movement in this day and age. You can say what you want about it, but we will ALL be in dire straights without SOMEBODY looking out for the people that work for a living. If it takes shopping a bit longer to find a worker friendly American product, then I'll do it because I believe that we will all end up begging if we don't remain united.

I'm gonna hang on to my Buick (over 100K miles on it) and my Ford Escort wagon (over 120K miles on this one) for as long as I can. I take no joy in seeing American workers without work or American companies in trouble.

Regards.


Laura

[Sewsojm]

101. American made cars are crap,

I'll never buy another american made car, I still have a 1990 f-150 ford p/u which is falling apart at 90,000 miles while my 2000 Toyota Tundra at 82,000 miles still drives like new and hasn't given me one single problem. I've owned ford, chrysler, dodge, chevy, etc. , they're all Junk, I hope Toyota puts them all out of buisness!!

[jakefrep]

104. No, they aren't. nt.

[susanna]

110. I'll 2nd that, jakefrep.

In my driveway are TWO Fords. One a 1993 Ranger: going strong, 175,000+ miles; no issues. Another? A 2000 Econoline w/ 70,000+ miles, built like a freaking tank; a semi-head-on accident three years ago barely dented it...and thank Goodness it seemed to save the lives of the folks in the other car, too; a side effect worth mentioning, since they were in a tiny import. (If anyone cares, the accident was not our fault. The import was cited in several ways, the least of which was failure to obey traffic signals.)

I have NO complaints to throw at the domestic automakers. None whatsoever.

[NickB79]

102. Too bad Ford is moving production to Mexico

See the new Ford Fusion.

A Toyota Sienna mini-van has more US-made parts in it than a Ford Mustang, sad as that may be.

[Pavulon]

103. Nope

I have driven ford trucks. My wife has driven a host of cars. The truck is zero maintenance.

I have driven all types of odd cars in my travels. renault made a nice car, the bmw diesel was a nice car. I would by that car now if I could. Inline6, manual, 250hp. Great car.

saab, expensive to fix. vw, electrical disaster, lexus (so far so good), honda accord, slipping transmission, sticking throttle body.(dangerous)

All cars break.