NKorea braced for 'all-out war' as tensions mount

[Rainscents]

SEOUL (AFP) - North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il has vowed no compromise and said he was braced for "all-out war" as tension mounted ahead of a UN vote on whether to impose sanctions on Pyongyang for its missile tests.

Japan, which with the United States has led the push to punish the communist state, said it would not rule out a preemptive strike on
North Korea in case of a direct nuclear threat, leading Seoul to accuse Tokyo of aggravating the situation.

As China and Russia held firm Sunday against the UN draft resolution to put further sanctions on the impoverished North, a US envoy stressed a diplomatic solution on disarmament and urged Pyongyang to return to stalled talks on disarmament.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060709/wl_asia_afp/nkoreamissile_060709113152;_ylt=AhNttoCvhYIApLPkrrbuoXCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

[larrysh]

1. Start of World War III --An Asymetrical War of Have-nots vs us

And I am doggone glad to have just booked our trip to Lake Chapala,
Mexico. The wheels to leaving are turning and I urge everyone else
to follow.....

[BrentWill4U]

9. N. Korea isn't that Asymmetrical in their threat..

They are actually a rather traditional threat. I doubt it would be Nuclear if it came to that. They don't have the deployment means yet. It would cause a lot of S. Korean Civilians death if they attack first. They have a large amount of chemical weapons and I believe that their doctrine is one out of three Artillery shells is to be Chemical. It would be a tough war, if it came to that. However, N. Korea is one regime that is EVIL and there is no question of that.

[daleo]

2. Maybe North Korea has a good reason to be paranoid:

"Japan, which with the United States has led the push to punish the communist state, said it would not rule out a preemptive strike on North Korea"...
"UN draft resolution to put further sanctions on the impoverished North..."
"a set of US financial sanctions."...
"Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso said Tokyo had the right to carry out a preemptive attack in the face of a serious threat despite its pacifist post-World War II constitution."
"It is impossible for us to do nothing until we are attacked by a country which says it has nuclear weapons and could fire missiles against Japan," Aso, an outspoken hawk, told NHK public television."
"Japan tied to its brutal 1910-1945 occupation of the Korean peninsula"...

I seem to recall that Clinton dealt much more reasonably with North Korea, and that worked a lot better.

[Igel]

11. No, it didn't work a lot better.

It played kick the can.

They negotiated an end to plutonium (I think) enrichment in exchange for light water reactors. Things went slowly under Clinton, and N. Korea skirted the spirit of the agreement. They worked on enriching uranium. For years, under Clinton. While getting fuel oil and food as part of the agreement.

It's arguable that if the light-water reactors had been completed expeditiously--although Albright and Clinton had good reasons for delays, to be sure--they would have immediately stopped enriching their uranium.

North Korea is under a state of grace: this doesn't mean that their wrongs are forgiven, it means that they cannot do wrong. Their populace starves, it's because of what the US has done. They're backwards and have to ration electricity in the capital (leave out the villages, in this worker's paradise), and it's because of the US. "Seven woes, one answer", to use a Russian proverb.

Hard to find another similarly benighted, paranoid, and xenophobic country, at least on the Korean peninsula. The country's a leech: a blighted, irascible, belligerent leech.

[daleo]

16. How can a country be both a leech and globally isolated at the same time?

The amount of aid they got from the U.S. was a trifle compared to many other countries. They didn't even make the top 16 in 2005:

Here are the top 16 recipients of U.S. foreign aid for 2005:

1. Israel 2.58 Billion
2. Egypt 1.84 Billion
3. Afganistan 0.98 Billion
4. Pakistan 0.70 Billion
5. Colombia 0.57 Billion
6. Sudan 0.50 Billion
7. Jordan 0.48 Billion
8. Uganda 0.25 Billion
9. Kenya 0.24 Billion
10. Ethiopia 0.19 Billion
11. South Africa 0.19 Billion
12. Peru 0.19 Billion
13. Indonesia 0.18 Billion
14. Bolivia 0.18 Billion
15. Nigeria 0.18 Billion
16. Zambia 0.18 Billion

source:
CRS Report for Congress: Foreign Aid: An Introductory Overview of U.S.
Programs and Policy Updated January 19, 2005, page 14
http://shelby.senate.gov/legislation/ForeignAid.pdf

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=586921

If you include military assistance, South Korea costs the U.S. taxpayer far more than North Korea does. Iraq is also costing U.S. taxpayers a lot more than it did pre-invasion. I can't imagine the total cost of a new war on the Korean peninsula.

There was a lot less belligerence during Clinton's time, in my opinion and in terms of military conflict. And the belligerence there was, was handled a lot more effectively (compare former Yugoslavia to Iraq).

[Igel]

22. It's not the dollar amount.

Most countries provide something in return. Decent relations, cotton, oil, or even feel-good news stories. From time to time some social progress or they allow the siting of a radar installation.

In the case of N. Korea, the money from the US isn't really much to the point, much of the aid is from S. Korea. It used to be more, but even under Clinton things were unravelling. S. Korea still gets the occasional feel-good news story out of it, but mostly they get threats. A real buzz-kill. Oh, and slights; after all, they're still completely controlled by the invader America.

We pay N. Korea to be quiet and all we get is airborne trash and threats. The isolation is pretty much all their doing.

[MrPrax]

25. Um...not quite right...

If you are referring to the Agreed Framework of 1994, it was actually the US that reneged on most of it and it also involved removing of the trade sanctions that the GOP dominated Congress thought was appeasement. There were also oil transfers and food aid that never materialized under the US hardline.

My understanding at that time is that neither side was too noble. For the US it might have come down to simply ANOTHER spectacular intelligence failure that completely misread the strength of Daddy Kims government. When he died, intel predicted that North Korea would fall into disarray because of the power of his "Stalinist personality cult". They were banking on this occurring so that there wouldn't be a need to follow through on any of the items in the agreement.

If anything, the major miscalculation was the Little Kim Il Jung turned out to be even more powerful and paranoid than old Daddy -- something else missed by most intelligence analysts. But then again, most intel research is simply imperial ideology masquarading as science anyway.

[bluedog]

3. US better re-instate the Draft!!

[Monkeyman]

7. Over this vets dead body

[AndyTiedye]

13. They Will. They're Only Looking for an Excuse Now

[Joe Bacon]

17. George P Bush should be the first drafted.

Go ahead, George P and enter the Army for your Uncle. Take the Trash Twins with you!

[Sherman A1]

4. North Korea's options

Are limited as well, they only have 2 directions to go, with an "all out war". To South Korea or China, they can not project power anywhere else on the globe. One suspects that they have no great desire to invade China, so they if they go, they will go South. It would be a really, really messy situation, but the South Koreans are not the push over's they were at the start of the 1st edition of this thing in the 1950's. The NK's are a pretty wacky group, but a war means their "going out of business sale" has begun. They cannot sustain themselves without Chinese help and in this world, they cannot be sure of getting it if they pull the trigger. A little saber rattling from time to time is cute and all, but they aren't going commit suicide.

[larrysh]

6. I know at one time we had tactical nukes in South Korea

8" inch artillery and 155 mm nuclear artillery shells (I worked with these when I was stationed in Italy and Germany). In 1993 my wife and I went back to the little Italian village where the nuke site had been
only to discover Reagan had pulled them all out of Europe 10 years before, as part of the deal to keep the Russians from deploying nuke tipped missles in the Warsaw Pact....but I have never heard or read where we pulled our nuke artillery out of South Korea. As a matter of fact, I worked with guys who had been on nuke sites in SK and they said
part of the strategy to stop the North would be to pop a couple of these
tactical nukes to block critical mountain passes north of Seoul. Anybody know of these are still there?

[Sherman A1]

8. Probably

still there and waiting.

[daleo]

18. Perhaps the North Koreans will use their atomic weapons to block passes

Thus preventing an invasion of their own territory.

I doubt that Kim wants much more than to be left alone in his private kingdom - maybe some foreign assistance and recognition. Left to its own devices, I think that eventually the NK-SK divide would whither away, like the East Germany-West Germany divide did. But I don't think that the U.S. military or political establishment would go along, as it seems to like having a large presence on China's doorstep.

[meti57b]

26. I agree. Kim Jong Il is having fun doing what he does. He isn't going to

start a war.

Same thing with Saddam Hussein before we invaded Iraq.

[dysfunctional press]

20. ixnay on the ountainmay asspay uclearnay anplay...

remember-
Loose Lips Sink Ships...

(i think it's time somebody was sent to re-education camp.)

[gulliver]

12. Gotta add the nukes to the equation though.

Bush let them get a credible nuclear threat, practically pushed them into it. I see Bush's calls for diplomacy as a sign that NK has the cards. If so, expect the situation to die down soon, and expect NK to get a bright shiny couple of nuclear reactors and economic assistance -- right after our election. NK probably timed this saber-rattling to coincide with our elections so they could shake down Bush.

[Martin Eden]

5. All-out war means nuclear obliteration

of North Korea, with NK first striking as far as they can reach in SK and Japan.

[AndyTiedye]

14. And California, If Any of the Long-Range Missiles Actually Work

:scared::nuke:

Bush** doesn't care if only blue states get nuked.

[BrentWill4U]

15. Well..

The Missile capability that they have is a liquid based propellant. These take days fill and we will see it because of our surveillance technology. As we saw last time, if they start to launch one, we will know where the location is weeks before hand. If there is a war, this will be the first we take out. If there isn't, and we see they are placing a nuclear warhead on the weapon, my guess would be that we would also take it out.

[daleo]

28. But would you bet your life on it?

I recall that the rocket they tested was launched from a different location than the one being monitored. You just can't be sure you would get everything - the so-called Scud hunt of Gulf War I turned out to be highly overrated.

[Strelnikov_]

10. "US Envoy Stressed A Diplomatic Solution On Disarmament"

Which is the correct approach. Keep talking, bribe as required, and hope things wotk out in the long run since there is no acceptable solution to the NK problem.

Funny how common sense prevails when oil is not involved, isn't it.

[Posteritatis]

19. Doesn't NK claim to brace for all-out war every Tuesday? (n/t)

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

21. Madmen sniffing at other madmen's assholes

trying to decide if they smell good or not.

The problem is, they soon discover they all smell the same- like shit.

[Divine Discontent]

23. prisoner is right on!

they are all deceitful, and men love to wage war...

diligence against their animosity be praised. and if they attack, finish their regime totally off.




www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<<--- check them and others out!

[cliss]

24. OK, help me out here.....those of you who know more

than I do.... (a few).

WHY is Mr. Kim preparing for all-out war? Why is he being provocative? Other than getting a lot of attention directed at himself, which we know he loves....

But the US has not threatened him.....have they? I mean, Bush called them the Axis of Evil, but so what? N. Korea doesn't have oil. They are no threat to us.

Besides, we're a little tied up in Iraq...Afghanistan....beating the war drums in Iran....Pakistan ready to blow...a little distracted, I'd say.

So fill me in.

[Raine]

27. Thanks Chimp

for your mishandling of this situation we (the whole World) are likely seeing the begining of the end of life as we know it. :grr: