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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:08 AM
Original message
Enron founder, former chairman Kenneth Lay dead - CNBC
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 09:16 AM by UpInArms
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%...

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Kenneth Lay, the former chairman of Enron as well as a founder of the company, is dead, according to a report on CNBC. Lay was convicted of fraud and conspiracy charges by a federal jury in Houston on May 25 for his part in the high-profile collapse of Enron. CNBC said Lay died at his home in Aspen, Colo., of a heart attack. Jeffery Skilling, the ex-CEO of Enron, was also convicted in late May. The pair had yet to be sentenced for the charges, and each man was facing as many as 20 years in prison.

...short blurb...

BULLETIN>> FORMER ENRON FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN KENNETH LAY DIES- REPORTS

10:02 AM ET 7/5/06 ENRON FOUNDER KENNETH LAY DEAD ACCORDING TO CNBC REPORT

(updated title and included link)
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. anyone saying if it was of natural causes?
whoah
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The Lay family released a short statement, did not mention cause...
...of death. :shrug:
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
117. it's time to end the occupation of murka now. nt
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #117
158. Quick, get a WOODEN STAKE and a Hammer
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colorado_ufo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #158
178. God forgive me for laughing, but
that WAS funny!
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #178
328. When will they lay Lay to rest? Or will he haunt the US as a dead shade?
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #158
314. wouldn't do any good - no heart
however, a stake through his wallet...that is another matter... :)

Karma, dude, karma.
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No Passaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #158
353. thanks
for the laugh
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heliarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
212. Mention of Heart attack
Houston Chronicle says that his pastor attributed Lay's death to a heart attack.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4025694.h...

I guess his heart was broken ... or made of stone.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #212
276. Pastor is a doctor?
They don't have a law that prohibits the ME or hospital from disclosing cause of death do they?
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cagoldensun5050 Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #212
337. He had a heart?
:shrug:
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
79. 6/30/06 Government seeks $183 million from Lay, Skilling
http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stor...

HOUSTON — Federal prosecutors want Enron Corp. founder Kenneth Lay and former Chief Executive Jeffrey Skilling to fork over nearly $183 million in light of their convictions for perpetuating one of the biggest corporate frauds in U.S. history.

In a court filing Friday, prosecutors asked U.S. District Judge Sim Lake to order the newly convicted felons to turn over that amount "in proceeds of the fraud conspiracy," which includes bonuses, Skilling's gains from stock sales, and Lay's use of loans from Enron to pay down his personal debt, once at $100 million.

"The bonuses, the stock transactions of Skilling and the manipulation of the line of credit by Lay all generated proceeds that would not have existed but for the fraud scheme," the filing said.

Specifically, the government wants $139.3 million from Skilling and $43.5 million from Lay.

Skilling's lawyers, with support from Lay's, asked Lake in a filing in mid-June to schedule a non-jury trial regarding asset seizure issues. The judge has yet to respond.

...more...

So, maybe Linda offed Kenny Boy so that the money would be tied up in an estate?

:eyes:
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #79
111. Will George Bush be giving the eulogy?
After all, Enron financed his theft of the White House.
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #111
130. Chimpy is probably not a good eugoogilizer.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #130
136. LOL!!!! Actually, it's quite fitting.
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heliarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #130
215. LOL... or "oo-googlyeyezer"
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #111
249. A better questions is, "Will * attend the funeral". You know
he doesn't do funerals. It certainly will be the height of tackiness if he doesn't. After all wasn't Kenny Boy his good buddy?
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #79
183. no wonder Lay had a heart attack, having his assets seized. Can't wait
for prosecutors to ask Chimp and Fudd to fork over their assets, too.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
177. "CNBC said Lay died at his home in Aspen, Colo., of a heart attack. "
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Acadia Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
224. certain medications can cause heart attack, but he probably was
stressed to the point that he had a natural heart attack.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #224
327. That's what I thought this morning. Stress can kill.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #224
359. Instant karma.
Sometimes, justice does prevail.
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xyboymil Donating Member (404 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. MSNBC reports heart attack....
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. An OD of pills could cause a heart attack...
Does anyone know if he had a history of heart issues? :shrug:
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. He looks really fit, doesn't he? Only 64, not overweight.
But of course, there is alot of stress pondering a prison sentence.

I think he could probably bring on a heart attack with pills if he knew what he was doing.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Surprising that someone that arrogant can die.
Death is the great equalizer.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
154. Yes. Such people usually seem to live on to trouble us forever.
(See Bush administration and the Republicans in Congress.)
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #27
193. I wonder if Bush and Cheney will think about that. nt
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
44. Jim Fixx looked healthy too
Anyone remember him?
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #44
147. True . . . except that he smoked. Ken Lay a smoker? nt
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GrumpyGreg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #147
194. You may be surprised to find that even non-smokers often die
suddenly at an early age.

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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #44
192. Yeah. I remember.
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IndependentVoice Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
200. Why would you induse a heart attack?
When you can just OD on sleeping pills, I don't think it was intentional, this man is a coward and fraud, he wouldn't put himself throught the pain of a heart attack
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #200
271. Why? Two words
Insurance policy.

Many insurance policies won't pay off for a suicide. Maybe they don't do a tox screening in Colorado. I think the timing is very suspicious.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #271
325. Actually, the "suicide clause" in a life insurance policy is usually just
for the first two years of a new policy.
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
107. Or stress.....
I imagine I'd be VERY VERY stressed if the gov't was looking for that kind of money from me and I didn't have the bank of Enron to withdraw from.

It must be very stressful for his family right now considering that the gov't will probaby attach to his estate if there is any money left.

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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #107
113. The Aspens have turned.....
and dropped another leaf
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #113
140. John Stewart couldn't have said it better. LOL!!!
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #113
205. He wasn't a leaf. Just an aspen hole.
Adios Ken, you evil, greedy sack of shit.

I have to wonder if Cheney had him killed. Lay knew where a lot of bodies are buried.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #205
329. Very funny... deeply dark humor.
I do feel sorry for his wife, children and grandchildren.

But us? Look at it this way -- we won't have to support him living in prison for the rest of his natural life.

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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #205
360. I wonder that myself. nt

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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #113
213. or did bush just fly him out of the country like obl?
msnbc put up a nice pic on the full screen with birth & death of this asshole--like he is someone we should be honoring!

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holboz Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #213
273. I think Lay has been moved to an undisclosed location...
I'm sorry. I just don't buy it. He was too in with cheney and *. They gave Kenney Boy his own Independence Day.

At the same time I hate that I've become so cynical and distrusting of the powers that be that I can't whole-heartedly accept this story.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #273
286. Yeah, I don't believe it for a minute.
They probably gave him a new identity and his own island somewhere.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #273
326. i just talked to my neighbor (who is a hard line republican)
and she doesn't believe he's dead--

her theory: that he paid some guy who was already on the verge of dying to get plastic surgery so the guy could leave ten million to his family--and now he's dead and kenny boy is on some island

she says dna test the corpse!
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #326
331. That was my very first thought..........
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 08:25 PM by ClintonTyree
that the son-of-a-bitch ISN'T dead, they neatly switched his identity with someone else and had a "friendly" Medical Examiner along with his "grieving" family identify him. I'm having a VERY hard time believing this and I wouldn't trust a DNA test unless I was the one who collected the sample and ran the test myself. This is just TOOOOOOOOOOO fucking convenient to have happened at this moment. :grr: That SOB is probably living high on the hog off of his stolen money somewhere, laughing at the poor schmucks he fleeced and the judicial system YET AGAIN!! :mad:

I really hope the bastard IS dead. No one deserves it more than he.....well I can think of a FEW others but Agent Mike wouldn't like me mentioning their names. ;)
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #273
332. I was wondering if someone else was thinking the same thing...
thought I might have had my tinfoil hat on a little too tight, but my first thought was that Kenny Boy (with a little help from the crooks in the White House) was whisked off to a tropical island somewhere with his laundered spoils in an offshore account.

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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I saw that too but
CNN is still saying the cause is unknown.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
298. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #298
362. 
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. Now where did I put that tinfoil hat??? n/t
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
85. I'm with you. Without a body - I'd be checking far-off islands soon. nt
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rainbowblue Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #85
102. I don't think he's actually dead
I'm not buying it. Its too easy. Bush is probably putting his buddy boy up in some island resort for the rest of his life.

I want to see a body!
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ToolTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #102
278. I want to see DNA, fingerprints, dental records, etc.
I just don't buy that he is dead. Way, way, too, convenient.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #278
357. I want to poke his corpse in the eye with a stick to make sure ..
he's not faking it.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #278
367. I agree.
Why did they bring in a guest coroner?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #85
168. Bush will have to put him on display like Uday & Qasay. Did he have
any metal plates in his bones like Uday, or a pacemaker or something we could pull out to verify it's him?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #85
265. They should put his body on display like Uday, Kusay, and Zarqawi
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 01:50 PM by Bleachers7
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #85
288. May the Republican pleasure-dome island retreat flood with global warming.
That would be poetic justice.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
126. My thoughts exactly! On an island with Barbara Olsen and Osama
drinking a few bahama breezes.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #126
228. LOL....
:D

DemEx
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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #126
261. hehe Osama bahama breezes....
:rofl:
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
165. Look for mine, too, OK?
I keep thinking Ken Lay is somewhere in Argentina, soaking up the sun.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
275. Beat you to it
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chaz4jazz Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
299. try this in your tinfoil hat
Ken Lay holding secret meetings with prosecutors and will name higher ups in the Bush Administration who held meetings with Lay to determine the future of Gray Davis and California. In exchange for a lenient sentence on his conviction, Lay is expected to out Cheney and Rove (and Bush himself) as co conspirators in an energy profits swap that would enrich Enron (and those who held their stock) while the GOP would be able to oust California Democratic Governor Davis by making him look impotent and inept in a manufactured energy crisis. Talks with mega-movie star Arnold Schwarzenegger who had made noises about wanting to be a governor. Before Lay could solidify his deal and name the names someone in the AG office brought the situation to the attention of the WH and unnamed persons were called upon (TDY from Iraq) to end the rising problem - with extreme prejudice.

Eh?
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #299
323. Gimme some of whatever it is you're smoking...
:hippie:
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. What was it Jesus said about rich men, heaven, camels & needle eyes?
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 09:16 AM by Coventina
I'll post the scripture once I find it......

Ok, got it:

Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you this: a rich man will find it hard to enter the kingdom of Heaven. I repeat, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19: 23-24

Best o' luck to ya, Kenny Boy.....
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BlueInPhilly Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Not fair... not fair...
But if there's eternal justice, he should be watching and feeling now how his actions caused so much pain to a lot of people.

He wasn't hunting with Dick Cheney, was he?
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
92. So will Lay be reincarnated as a Texas quail?
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:17 AM by Zambero
Karma notwithstanding, that wouldn't be any more hazardous than being a Republican lawyer in those parts!
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #92
349. more likely an aids virus
for a few billion times. He has a lot of really bad actions to live down.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. It is easier for a camel
to pass through the eye of a needle than for * to find OBL.
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
135. It is easier for a camel
to pass through the eye of a needle than for * to SPELL OBL.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #135
169. Great minds think alike
- forget the fools bit. After I'd posted I'd wondered if it might have been better if I'd alluded to spelling. Glad you did so :)
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Actually, Jesus was supposed to rise on Good Friday...
but some Enron traders phoned the guards and asked them to delay the stone rolling until Sunday, so they could get better odds on the resurrection.
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jor_mama Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
242. that is the funniest thing
I've read in a long time.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. Oh yeah...that camel thing.
We don't seem to hear much about that particular line of scripture, do we?
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
57. or that line about ". . .the wages of sin. . ."
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:14 AM by DinahMoeHum
I'd say Ken Lay was under an awful lot of stress lately.

:nopity:
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prole_for_peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
62. no we don't
"they" ignore it cause it is too socialist for them.

"dammit jesus was a capitalist not some damn pinko commie libural"
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
94. Especially not from rich televangelists
pleading for dough and squeezing their eyes shut really really hard

I bout fell over while reading about Kenny-boy's humble origins.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060705/D8ILSRNG0.htm...

Lay was born in Tyrone, Mo. and spent his childhood helping his family make ends meet. His father ran a general store and sold stoves until he became a minister.* Lay delivered newspapers and mowed lawns to pitch in. He attended the University of Missouri, found his calling in economics, and went to work at Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM) predecessor Humble Oil & Refining upon graduation.


* emphasis mine

Now, most ministers I know in small churches would not be as financially secure as the local merchants. His dad may have had a true calling and threw that all away. (Remember, Kenny-boy helped out making ends meet). But videos I have seen of Kenny-boy pushing ENRON stocks, even as he was unloading some of his, sure reminded me of some of those televangelists...
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #94
123. For a man born of humble means
he sure didn't give a care for the average investors who he led to the slaughter, did he?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #123
149. Nope. Two kinds of poor folk in my observation
Thems that never forget, don't feel shame about their beginnings, and have empathy for others. They generally have self imposed limits on what they will do in life. They self-police and tend not to harm others much, even if they could gain by it.

Then, there's thems that never forget, but work too hard to bury some sense of shame for bein poor, yet have no sense of shame about doing ANYTHING to lift themselves out of poverty. But, no matter what they accumulate, it never fills up some hole in their soul, where that old shame dwells. There is never enough so they will do most anything to keep tryin to get enough.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #149
162. Wow, havocmom. Great post.
The "shame" of poverty. You're so right about those two groups of people, especially the last group. There IS a hole there somewhere; most wealthy people don't stop accumulating when they have more than they need. They just keep accumulating, but that hole is never filled. That's GOT to be a sickness. There just isn't any reason for it.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #149
263. I think you have nailed it perfectly
that really explains so much, not just about Lay, but about others like him, as well.
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Peeves Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
101. We're ALL too rich ...
NONE of us can fit through the eye of a needle (nor can any of us enter the kingdom of heaven on our own merits) That is the point that Jesus was making in its entire context. If you read on, his disciples asked then "Who can be saved?"

Jesus answered "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."




;-)
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
104. An effort was made to attenuate the message by stating that
it was the name of a gate in the wall of Jerusalem, but that gate was only introduced in medieval times.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #104
116. I remember that theory
The gate was supposed to be so small that you had to unload all the stuff from your camel, then squeeze the animal through the gate, then carry all your cargo through the gate, then put it back on the camel. I didn't know the gate was constructed after the Gospel had been written.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #116
364. Apparently, several centuries after they were written. But it was a
nice try, wasn't it...!
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
350. or many other lines from the bible about how the rich are supposed to act
or about how the poor are to be treated. Honestly I would be happy if instead of trying to post the ten commandments they tried to post the beatitudes instead.
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carnie_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
179. It is easier
for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Firenze777 Donating Member (180 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
184. This sums it up
Proverbs 6:16-19

There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

I'd say the Bush regime and Ken Lay have a lot to answer for.

Also....direct 'fundies' to this passage whenever they get on their high horse about morality. The distraction of stirring up gay rights and abortion rights is just the smokescreen to accomplish corporate fraud and every evil thing that our government has become.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #184
344. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #184
358. I 'd say that your post is evidence that * is the Anti-Christ after all


:scared:
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bedazzled Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. well that'll save bush the trouble of pardoning him i guess
if there's an afterlife, maybe he'll get what he deserves anyway
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
345. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
351. only if god is as good as his fanclub claims.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. May he rest in peace
n/t
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
96. May his spirit receive just reward -
Works better for me
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #96
139. Oh, make no bones about it, he will
:evilgrin:
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
214. May he rest in "HELL"!
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
355. May he rot in hell
If there is a hell, there needs to be a special place for people like Mr Lay.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. Disinformation Is Already Flying
Heart attack, suicide, no one knows...
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BlueInPhilly Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. Suicide was my first thought...
I read somewhere that they could always tell when a suicide found on the Thames in London was love-related or money-related. Those who offed themselves "because of love" had hand injuries consistent with someone who, at the last minute, tried to hold on, struggle and live. The money-related suicides didn't have any signs of struggle.

Maybe because with love, people realize that they could always love again. With money debts - well, money is such a big stone tied around their necks that death seemed like a welcome alternative. Just my 2 pense.
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Blaq Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #29
72. He might have fled
Who knows. Someone might've "accidentally" left the back door open?
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Dulcinea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
182. That's my guess.
He killed himself rather than go to prison for the rest of his life. But there may have been a suicide clause in his life insurance policy, so his family wouldn't get the money if the authorities could prove he killed himself.
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jasop Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
51. This is so typical...
how many people are so blind as to think that everyone connected to something sinister with a reason to expose it will just suddenly have a heart attack. One of the EASIEST types of deaths to induce.

It is amazing how many rich and powerful guys have been disappearing, found dead, etc. in the last 7 years. Google it.. you will be amazed.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
13. Autopsy must be performed. Too many suspicious circumstances.
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:00 AM by seafan
Ken Lay dead of massive heart attack



Ken Lay, with wife Linda, enter his federal trial in May.



July 5, 2006

Enron founder Kenneth Lay has died of a massive heart attack at his vacation home in Aspen, Colo., his pastor said Wednesday.

Lay, 64, was in Colorado with his family awaiting sentencing in October after he was found guilty in May on six counts of conspiracy and fraud for his role in Enron's collapse.

snip

Ive not only pursued the American dream, Ive achieved it. I suppose we could say the last few years, Ive also achieved the American nightmare, Lay testified.

snip
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Agreed. It wouldn't surprise me if he off'ed himself. But he was
behaving so religiously, that I wonder if he could do that.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. Religion prevents suicide? Since when?
I doubt it was suicide, but if so, I can imagine how he could rationalize his suicide as being better for society because it would save them money.

Mmmm. scratch that.
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #35
144. (I love your signature line!)
In spite of being a pinko liberal I'm very much open to the idea of "God," but I know in my heart that it ain't the god they're talking about on TBS.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
191. oh, I know better. But for some there is a cognitive dissonance
over this stuff. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the cause of death.
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peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
39. a sudden convert
Funny how these bastards always seem to find Christ as they are headed to the Big House. Christian my ass.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
69. He Didn't Believe in Anything But Greed
Even his new found religion couldn't save his creepy ass.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #69
110. I don't believe there was any suggestion of an acceptance of
guilt or of any contrition on his part. But maybe I missed something.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #110
120. No He Didn't
but he did have a "heart Attack"... maybe a little stress.
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #110
142. He claimed that he thought that he wouldn't be convicted, and was
surprised with the verdict.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #142
363. I think he was almost preaching his innocence, wasn't he?
Edited on Thu Jul-06-06 03:02 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
I was half expecting him to begin intoning the "Nunc Dimittis": "Now dost thou dismiss thy servant, O Lord, according to thy word, in peace...".

Well, it did actually kind of sound like that, didn't it? "The Good Lord, in his infinite wisdom, has another plan for me", or words to that effect, I think he murmured. For all his faults, I know old George wouldn't have been able to suppresss a smile if and when he'd said that. And as for Porter Goss!!!!
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #363
365. I read somewhere on this board that he had to stay after court
to file an appeal bond, since he was so confident that he would be found innocent (not guilty) that he had made no previous arrangements, and his children has to pledge something like $5 million that he wouldn't flee the country that afternoon. Sounded really bizarre, but that's high finance for you. I'm just trying to pay the mortgage.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
43. It would be as helpful as Congressional 9-11 investigation
I would like a peek at his medical records prior to death though. ;)
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
49. what are some of the "suspicious" circumstances?
I agree that there should be an autopsy, based on my assumption that Lay was a 64 year old, apparently healthy individual with no history of coronary illness. But I'm not sure that I would characterize those circumstances as "suspicious".
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saskatoon Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
294. Of Course an Autopsy.
I was under the impression that anyone who died AT HOME ,it was mandatory that an autopsy be performed.
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
148. At his vacation home? How many former Enron employees can afford a
vacation, let alone a vacation home?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
235. He Doesn't Look Particularly Healthy In That Picture
Not like Karl Rove, for example.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
320. Wonder if he was
helped along.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
346. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MadJohnShaft Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
15. Alright, so what did he know?
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
95. And what was he ready to tell on Bush to get off?
He knew a LOT and I bet he would be ready to TALK big time now.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #95
105. Was Lay present at those energy policy meetings Cheney held
and refuses to give us notes from?
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #105
174. Yes, he was
The Enron people knew Cheney for a VERY long time, the statements made by Dickhead and the Chimp notwithstanding.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #174
188. Thanks. Thought so. Worth repeating: Yes he was at Cheney's meetings
Any other oil/energy execs under investigation?

These are not nice people. They do not play by the same rules most of us impose on our behavior.
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #174
259. I love the kitty!! nt
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #105
210. Lay played a big role in those energy meetings with Cheney.
I wanna see his dead rotten stinking ass. Or was he blackmailed into suicide?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #210
222. or helped with sucicide?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #222
361. Either way "Kenny Boy" had to be taken out of the picture.
I wonder if any of the Bush family will make the funeral?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
17. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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SensibleAmerican Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Dude, the guy is dead
Give it a rest ... You can still disapprove of what the man did without dancing over his grave.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #28
56. "[D]isapprove"?? HE RUINED PEOPLE'S LIVES! He needed to be
CONDEMNED, RUINED, DESTROYED.

Seems the Universe agreed.
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #56
151. Rock. On.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
293. Au Revoir Enjoy your stay on this thread
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #28
70. Screw that. Glad the asshole's dead. Too bad he didn't die horribly.
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geomon666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #28
87. On the contrary.
I'd be delighted to dance on his grave just as I'm sure he did when he stole millions from retirees.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
97. disapprove? that's putting it a little lightly i'd say.
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:40 AM by SlavesandBulldozers
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
112. Some of the people (workers/investors/retirees) HE RUINED
may agree with you. Some will wanna dance on his grave. Who are we to say yea or nay to either group?

This is America. People get to feel how they feel. And they get to express it, up to limits of harm to others.

Me? I would rather he lived to get the full benefit of prison. Oh, and being from Missouri myself, I would like the chance to stick a pin in him... just to see for myself.
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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #112
141. Better to hold a mirror up to his nose...
but I get your meaning... I take the Thomas approach on this too.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
171. No matter how much havoc they wreak - or pain and suffering they cause...
...there is always someone in the room chomping at the bit to stand up for any asshole who has position, fame, wealth, or power. Always.

Ken Lay died like he lived. In life he was a consummate thief, and even in death he managed to rob the world of the justice of seeing his sorry ass behind bars. The world is better off without him, but it would have been even better had he lived a long life in an orange jumpsuit, as an example to all the other corporate thieves who now control our government.

As Lord Baron Thurlow said, you cannot expect a corporation to have a conscience "when it has no soul to be damned, and no body to be kicked". Ken Lay is the embodiment of corporate evil. He deserves whatever contempt he receives.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
175. Tell that to all the employees of Enron
who lost everything. Lay was pure evil, just as Jeff Skilling and others at the top of the company. He deserves as much derision as one can give him--dead OR alive.
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #28
190. "...dancing on his grave"? not worth the effort. I spit on his grave
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 11:36 AM by confludemocrat
A destroyer of lives who cloaked himself in piety
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
198. Are you kidding? He lived like a king on money he stole from others.
Think of all those former Enron employees who earned the right to a comfortable retirement. Now they will have to work at a job (not a career) until they drop dead. Imagine yourself and your family getting cheated like that, and multiply it by the number of employees. Think of all the suffering in California that was caused by Kenny Boy's fake power shortages that were used to extort billions form consumers.

Think of his opulent life style, enabled by these crimes, that continued to the moment of his death. Note that he died in his "holiday home" in Aspen. I'll bet that wasn't a tarpaper shack. I would like to have about a dozen Taj Mahals, an army of servants, and a fleet of yachts, and no real work to do, wouldn't you?

And you know what's the worst thing? He never paid for any of his crimes. I don't think he spent a single day in jail, and it's been five long years since Enron's collapse. What a perfect example of the truth, a delay of justice is injustice its self. He used the money he stole to hire a high priced bevy of lawyers who made sure all this dragged out as long as it did. And he wasn't even scheduled to be sentenced until November! Why not? There is no good reason. Money buys you into a totally different system of "justice" in this country.

If I were at his grave site I wouldn't be dancing, I would be pissing.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
211. And how many people died when they realized that their savings,
their retirement was gone? He didn't just steal peoples' money - he stole their lives. People who had every expectation of a comfortable retirement, suddenly left to the gentle graces of WalMart employment in their fading years. He suffered stress, losing millions at 64? He was at his vacation home! He could sell that and live off the proceeds for the rest of his life. What about the stress of those he screwed who have no vacation homes?

I'd happily dance on his grave.
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mikeyj84 Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #211
283. Dance on Grave
I'd piss on it!!!!!!
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #283
295. I think all those that were ripped off by this CROOK and LIAR and CRONY
should line up at the graveside service with their cat or dog excrement and throw it in the hole - fill it up with as much sh*t as it will hold and let him lie in that forever.
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #283
339. You would be standing in a long line n/t
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
264. Hey, Moral Orel
I'll not only dance on his grave, I'll piss on it if I want to.

I predict you will not be happy at DU.
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mikeyj84 Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
284. Why would you have sympathy
for an immoral piece of crap--- a firm beiever in what goes around comes around!
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saskatoon Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
297. Dancing on his grave?
well Dude you do your thing and I'll do mine and I'm dancing a jig.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
330. If he IS dead, I can't wait to PISS on the grave...
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 08:03 PM by Zhade
...of that lying, cheating, larcenous motherfucker. He ruined THOUSANDS of lives.

FUCK your "give it a rest" bullshit. If Lay's dead, I'm GLAD, and only sad he never faced justice.

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
60. Absolutely. n/t
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
19. Enron founder Ken Lay dies
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 09:16 AM by cal04
Enron founder Kenneth Lay died early Wednesday in Aspen, a family spokeswoman said. He was 64.

In a statement, spokeswoman Kelly Kimberly said, "The Lays have a very large family with whom they need to communicate, and out of respect for the family we will release further details at a later time."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13715925/from/ET /

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/05/news/newsmakers/lay_dea...
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Union Label Donating Member (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
20. i would hate to be a part of this mis-administration
All the loose ends are going to go away soon.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
21. Here's the link from Houston News
http://www.wsoctv.com/money/9469557/detail.html

Doctors said his heart simply "gave out" and the death was unexpected.

Ok, so sue me for saying this - if the death was unexpected, could it possibly have been premeditated?
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Could it possibly be faked?
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 09:18 AM by hughee99
Kenny Boy could be sitting on a beach in 2 weeks with his $$ and no one will be looking for him. Though I guess if you wanted to fake your death, heart attack wouldn't be the way to go.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. Aspen hospital
He died in Aspen, CO, not Houston if that's what you were thinking. One of the world's premier hospitals in Aspen?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. OH that explains it all.
I'm sure he was not at the county free clinic.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #42
61. are you kidding? Aspen is one of the richest towns in the US
All the stars and rich people vacation there. Im sure theyd have a good hospital.
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peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #61
81. Good? Sure World Premier? Doubtful
I never said Aspen wouldn't have a good hospital, but certainly not one of the "world's premier hospitals". I believe poster was assuming Lay was in Houston (where there are world premier hospitals) since the death announcement came from Houston. I was not saying he wouldn't have had good care, but not a major medical center by any means. That's all.

Just looked it up- Aspen is a 49 bed community hospital. If that qualifys as a world premier hospital, fine.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #81
103. Aspen's probably a fine place to have a broken bone set.
But people are probably flown to the Houston Medical Center--if they have time. He didn't.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. And Cliff Baxter was a suicide.
He was former ENRON vice-chairman and told friends he was looking for a bodyguard. Then he turns up dead by gunshot. The ME rules suicide before an autopsy. How convenient.

Don't blame me. Those are facts.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
124. Actually, it was ratshot..
We're to believe he shot himself to death with a gun used to kill rats. With a gun that doesn't need to be registered and can't be traced back to an owner.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
217. I share your suspicions. There are no coincidences
until all other possibilities are excluded. Lay's death is damn convenient for the ReTHUGlicans.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #46
260. That was my first thought, too: Another case of Baxter Syndrome
All the symptoms are there: ties to Enron, intimate knowledge of the inner workings of Bush**co, sudden and largely unexplained death. :scared:
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
282. Yeah, not only that.
A few months after rendering that "SUICIDE" verdict in less than 24 hours, on a Saturday, before toxicology tests or ballastic tests, the ME, age 49, conveniently retired to spend more time with her family (she was single, but cited her mother needing attention).

So, by my reckoning, the top 4 honchos at Enron were Lay, Skilling, Fastow, and Cliff Baxter.

Now there are two.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #34
68. Self Delete.
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:04 AM by hughee99
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. Houston Chronicle coverage of his trial(s)....
Indicated the appeal had little chance of success. And he would probably have proceeded immediately to prison after sentencing--no "out on appeal." The prison facilities would have been better than "maximum security" but far from a "country club" environment.


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Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
54. That is my first thought!
I just don't trust these people! We need the mirror under the nose test! Maybe they can get Lord Pissypants to do it at the funeral. Do you think chucklenuts will attend? They are, or were, best buds, you know!
Sorry if this is in bad taste but I don't trust that he is dead and until it is for sure I will wear tasteless tinfoil!!!

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
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feminazi Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #54
76. Oh no they weren't!
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:05 AM by feminazi
Bush barely knew him. He said that himself and we know how damn honest he is.

:sarcasm:

PS: i see you've reached the magic 666 post!
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
122. Anybody else hearing the theme from Godfather movies just now?
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:38 AM by havocmom
All that evening up of old scores and tying up loose ends while the family held parties and such?

Maybe the room where bush was walking around with the cake yesterday really was that hot. Nobody else seemed drenched in sweat though.

Was Ken Lay at Cheney meetings to determine national energy policy with energy execs? You all remember those meetings... the ones Dick won't release notes on? Who all was there? What was discussed that Dick defies oversight and transparency? What might Kenny-boy know that he could bargain with?

It isn't always tin-foil thinking. Some of us have detectives in the family. ;)

Edited to add:

Message to Abramoff?
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #122
145. I'm thinking of the scene where Tom Hagen
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 10:55 AM by LibDemAlways
visits Frank Pantangelli, and shortly thereafter Pantangelli slits his wrists. Anyone know if Cheney made any recent trips to Colorado?
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #122
185. YES HE WAS At Those Meetings
where they were rumored to be dividing up Iraq's oil among themselves.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #185
221. Lots of possibilities for the need of many to cover their asses(ts)
No honor among thieves.

Wonder if Skilling's bodyguards got a raise today. Wonder if Abramoff's did too.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #122
223. I hear the same theme too ...
Too slow to see the Abramoff connection though ... thanks.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #223
232. When I called Havocdad to tell him Lay was aparently dead,
he said, "They should check the area around Ambramoffs place for headless bodies of horses."

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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
23. One less * has to pardon...
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
24. Brief CNN article
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
25. From Last Week: "U.S. wants $183 million from Lay, Skilling"
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 09:18 AM by Bridget Burke
Prosecutors say the former Enron executives earned incentives based on illegal activity

By JOHN C. ROPER
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Prosecutors want Jeff Skilling and Ken Lay to pay the government $183 million it says were ill-gotten gains derived from fraud they committed while at Enron.

And in listing the assets they hope to seize, prosecutors pointed to a $6.3 million investment owned by Lay.

Lay never mentioned the fund during his jury trial while testifying about his assets, nor was it raised by prosecutors.

During that trial, in which he was convicted on six counts related to Enron, the former chairman told jurors his net worth was once $400 million but that he was $250,000 in the hole.


www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/special/enron/4016912.html

The first report from KHOU (Houston's CBS station) says it was a "massive heart attack."

www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou060705_mh_laybio.29...








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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
160. Update. "U.S. Wants $183 Million from Skilling" Not a good day for
Mr. Skilling. Since Lay denied the hangman, all will seek revenge from Skilling, on sentencing, on restitution, on blame.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
30. yeah. right.
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adriennui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
31. suicide?
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
32. One last holiday with the family and then goodbye.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
152. Bingo!.... Off to the Cook islands.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #152
240. Right on. No extradition from there. Don't believe he's dead until
you see proof beyond a doubt. Faking your death, conveniently prior to a hefty prison stint, doesn't seem so out of the realm of possibility especially for those connected to the CIA. Besides, he has former company personnel there already if you know what I mean (and I think you do).
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jo35042 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #240
308. this possibility has been bugging me all day.
It would be so easy for him to be having a little plastic surgery, hair transplant, etc. If I were the Law, I would be watching the family and monitoring all movement of anyone connected to him for some time. Unless someone trustworthy sees the body.
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Efilroft Sul Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
33. Welcome to Hell, you bastard! N/T
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peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
36. Ex-Enron employees
Maybe the people the SOB screwed could form an 'honor' guard along the highway from church to cemetery to pay their final 'respects'.
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
237. God, I hope
Everyone whose retirement got fucked by that bastard, every employee, everyone whose bills were inflated so he could make another dime, that they all line up along his route to either flip him off or show him their bare asses. What a message that would send...
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
37. ... and his estate passes tax free to his wife.
Does this mean that investors have to sue the wife?
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. But he said he had no estate left at all....
Could he have been lying?
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #40
118. Nawwww!
Kenny Boy, lie? That's just crazy talk!
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #40
176. If he was in Aspen, he had a little something left
Seriously doubt he was waiting tables.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #176
208. But he'd already had to sell 3 Aspen homes.
Not to mention 3 in Galveston.

He was down to his last vacation home, poor guy.

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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #208
281. Ken & Linda owned 24 properties -- at least -- in Houston alone
just after the time she declared they were nearly completely broke, in January 2002, on the Today show.

Known Real Estate Owned by Linda & Ken Lay and family
as valued around January 2001 (assuming no mortgages), appraisal values:

Real Estate in Houston . . . . $ 12,383,790

Real Estate in Galveston . . . . $590,000 or more

Real Estate in Aspen . . . . . . $24,275,000

TOTAL REAL ESTATE (known). . $37,248,790
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #176
312. UK Guardian: "Disgraced boss Ken Lay dies at luxury ski chalet"
that's accuracy that won't be seen from papers in our "democracy"
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #37
146. The executor will be substituted
His estate will pass through probate and an executor will be appointed, the executor is then substituted as the party in the forfeiture case.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #146
206. What if all of his assets were placed
in the kind of trust that means everything passes directly to spouse upon death, without going through probate? It's the kind of thing rich people often do.

I know someone whose father (worth several million dollars) died, everything passed to wife, and although the friend has seen a copy of Dad's will indicating that money will eventually be divided equally among the several children, nothing will happen until the widow finally passes away. What if Lay had a similar set-up. If so, now that everything is Linda's, can the government go after it? If paperwork had already been filed, I'm sure they can, but if they hadn't gotten anything filed yet, Linda may simply be a very rich widow.
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #206
280. In such a case . . .
. . . either the trustee of the trust or the new spouse as a successor in interest would be joined as a party.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #280
292. Oh. Okay.
Thank you.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
234. From CNN:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/05/news/newsmakers/lay_dea...

But Lay's family may still face the music when it comes to the barrage of civil lawsuits filed against him.

Jacob Zamansky, principle at Zamansky & Associates, a law firm that represents shareholders, said Lay's estate is still liable for damages.

"Lay's passing isn't going to have any material effect on the civil suits," Zamansky said. "His testimony is still out there."
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #234
316. Great!
His family shouldn't abscond with the millions he stole. Let there be justice done!
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #37
369. YUP! They...I mean SHE...still gets millions of dollars.
That money is untouchable...

Bahamas, here they come!
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
41. Oh, well.

Kenneth Lay dies at 64 of a heart attack
Enron founder Kenneth Lay, seen here with his wife shortly after being convicted of fraud and conspiracy in the company's collapse, suffered a fatal heart attack today. (Reuters)

I wont miss him.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
47. Good career move.
:o
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #47
59. he'll run the same
scam south of here.
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wallwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
48. I say it was the BFEE
All the time that Chimpy spent on ENRON's corproate jet? I'm sure Kenny Boy knew way too much and that he was too much of an albatross to pardon. They might as well have sent him hunting with Cheney...
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
50. Will Bush send Cheney to his funeral
or go himself?
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
52. I hope heaven is just one eternal stock holders meeting.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
53. Paranoid, I know
But does anyone else find the timing of this REALLY suspicious?
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jasop Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #53
65. Absolutely!
BushCo covers their tracks so .... blatantly! But its funny how no one really seems to notice things like Philip Merrill

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/publishers-body-fo... /
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #65
74. Is it too early...
to start thinking that there's a real possibility that BushCo will stage a coup rather than leave office?
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QuettaKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #74
80. a little late with the coup talk. that happened in Nov. 2000. nt.
.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #80
90. Point well taken. n/t
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oneold1-4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #80
125. Stolen posting
Now I can't think of one better!
I did some minor safety planning at the turn of the century and it looks like no one should have put it all away!
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #65
241. Yup
Cliff Baxter, another Enron exec.
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #53
73. Very suspicious!! Bu$hitCo dodges another bullet! Or, did they...
actually fire one at Lay? I give it better than 90% that foul play was involved.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #73
86. Agreed
It's not difficult to induce a heart attack and half the drugs wouldn't stand out unless you specifically looked for them. Hell, it's possible to induce a heart attack using pure psychology.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #73
204. call it 99.9999999% recurring
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #73
296. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
55. Well, this is convenient--no pesky mid-term pardon petitions
to have to deal with. And no high profile October sentencing, right before the mid-term elections.
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #55
255. And one less person who knew what went on in Cheney's Energy meetings n/t
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #255
272. Indeed, a trifecta!! Monkey is a lucky, lucky boy...!
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
58. Good riddance. We haven't lost enough villains lately.
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
63. ha ha ha ha ha!
should have died under the pierce elevated next to his shopping cart! not his 'vacation' home in colorado!
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #63
153. Nice geographical reference
Those of us who know Houston appreciate the imagery.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #153
254. Pierce Elevated
Just passed there this morning on the way to work in downtown Houston.

Weather forecast: Rainy with chance of drive-by--

not a good day to be wet, homeless and living under a bridge.
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Blaq Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
66. He just found out he couldn't take the money with him
Oh, how sad. Tsk Tsk Tsk...
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
67. Guess Ken got his "pardon" from Bush... just not in the way...
he expected. So much for his possible canary act! He can join that other Enron guy who committed "suicide" a few years back. How convenient for Bu$hitCo.



These pricks never get the justice they really deserve.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #67
84. bush promised him...
..."you'll never spend a day in jail."

there is no question this man had the goods on bush. dead men tell no tales. other than his inability to testify against bush in the future, the world is a better place this morning.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
71. His estate will most certainly transfer back the people of California
My refund/restitution check will arrive soon, right? We are going to get our money back aren't we?

Lay's death really saddens me. I wanted his passing to be much more lengthy, agonizing and impoverished.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #71
82. At his trial, he said he was $250,000 in the hole.
All the estate was long gone. I'm sure his widow will apply for food stamps any day now.

Could he have been telling an untruth?
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #82
155. a likely crock
If Lay was in the hole $250,000, then what the hell was he doing living in Aspen, CO? Makes NO sense.

In any event, he is rotting in hell if he is really dead.

He ruined the lives and futures of many people in our country.

:dem: :kick:
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #155
159. I also doubt he was telling the truth.
He had to sell several of his Aspen homes--where's your compassion?

There's many a dry eye in Houston.
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #82
266. I'll believe it when he's buried in a pauper's grave. Most likely
to be hidden, or cremated, to prevent the smell of urine from permeated the entire graveyard.
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cagoldensun5050 Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #71
343. Sympathies from a displaced Californian...
:hug: Me too!

x( :-( ;( :evilfrown: :mad: :puke: :wtf: :argh: :hurts: :grr: :nuke: :thumbsdown: :shrug: :cry: :banghead: :rant:
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
75. Is this the room you go to piss on a corpse?
AH...there's the body...AHHHHH!! That morning coffee...

You can just feel a little less evil in the world today?

Thank you, Santa!!
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
77. Gone to his other 'mansion in the sky' nt
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #77
83. Or maybe, the one below?
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #77
91. Delta Dawn?
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #91
338. "Movin' On Up, To the Big Time..." TV show theme
Jefferson's, The
Well we're movin on up, To the east side.
To a deluxe apartment in the sky.
Movin on up
To the east side.
We finally got a piece of the pie.
Fish don't fry in the kitchen;
Beans don't burn on the grill.
Took a whole lotta tryin'
Just to get up that hill.
Now we're up in teh big leagues
Gettin' our turn at bat.
As long as we live, it's you and me baby
There ain't nothin wrong with that.
Well we're movin on up,
To the east side.
To a deluxe apartment in the sky.
Movin on up
To the east side.
We finally got a piece of the pie.

http://www.classic-tv.com/themesongs/lyrics.asp

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #338
356. Just 'cuz Kenny Boy is dead, don't mean we can't have some singing!
And I don't mean "Amazing Grace" !!!

I won't print the whole thing, but I remember the first verse of Helen Reddy's 70s hit. Although--in my humble opinion--the theme to Jefferson's was much more fun:

Delta Dawn, what's that flower you have on
Could it be a faded rose from days gone by
And did I hear you say he was a-meetin' you here today
To take you to his mansion in the sky-eye
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
78. Cleaning up loose ends?
Ala Goodfellows, Jimmy killing off all the participants so nobody can rat, who's next?
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eagler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #78
88. Whatever he takes to the grave with him we will never know.
nt
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DebinTx Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
89. Condolences to his family
and to his many victims.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #89
100. Amen
and thank you for saying it.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #89
114. I'll second that.
I feel for his victims, this is not the justice they wanted.

I don't really feel much for his family. They heaped the rewards of his greed.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #89
247. Yeah, poor family
They're down to what, three homes now?

He died in Aspen. I suspect they'll be okay.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
93. I'm Pissed That He Got Out Of Going To Jail!
Died in his home, that's too good for him.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #93
99. Aspen is in the same Federal District as Houston.
So it was one of the few places he was allowed to go before sentencing. He already had to sell several of the Aspen properties--show some compassion!

I wish he'd had a long life--in prison.

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bookman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
98. There goes the pardon plans n/t
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #98
115. Taking along with him the embarrassment of a friend/pResident's
obligation to pardon him, and risk rage, resentment, even hatred and lower approval ratings from the very much put-upon American public.
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catbert836 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
106. Good Fuckin' Riddance
Whether it was a real heart attack, or suicide, I don't really care. We're well rid of him.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
108. This is so sad.
I wanted to see him rot in prison.

I hope the former Enron employees sue the shit out of his estate.
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
109. the coward eluded his punishment
No condolences for you. If you want a sympathetic eulogy you must earn it with your deeds in life.

Good riddance to your cold black soul. May winged demons carry you to your final resting place.
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
119. Just wondering....
I saw a Court TV program recently, where the guy was convicted of murdering someone. However, he died before he could be sentenced. In that state (I think it was Massachusetts, but I could be wrong), if someone dies after they are convicted but BEFORE they are sentenced, the conviction is set aside, and its like they died 'innocent'.

Does anyone know if Texas has anything like this? Since Ken Lay died before he could be sentenced, will his conviction be 'set aside'?
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #119
163. here's what the Houston legal analysts are saying on the news:
since he died before his sentencing, his conviction 'disappears, and anything associated with it disappears, eg. the govt going after the $180 million disappears. Its as if the criminal trial never happened. The civil trials can proceed against his estate can proceed, but anything related to the criminal trial disappears. Legally, its called "abanitio" (sp?), its as if the criminal trial never happened'.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #163
289. so he killed himself so his family could keep the money
at least he's got more honor than skilling, perhaps he really loved linda for all the scum and filth in his stealing heart
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David in Canada Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #119
196. R. Budd Dwyer
In 1986, then-Pennsylvania state Treasurer R. Budd Dwyer was convicted of bribery or some such. Because he was convicted, he would have been forced to forfeit his office and pension once sentenced. That would have left his wife destitute.

So, he held a press conference and made a tearful speech. He then pulled a pistol from a brown paper bag and shot himself in the mouth. It was caught live on TV at the time.

The video is still on the internet...
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #196
201. oh man....
that's terrible! I guess from your post, I can conclude that because of his death before sentencing, his wife received his pension?

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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #196
290. i remember that
a little tacky but at least he took care of his wife
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
121. KHAAAAAAAAN!!!!!
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
127. I won't believe the little con-man is TRULY dead until a huge,
framed, close-up of the face of his corpse is plastered all over my teevee...
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
128. Break's over, Mr. Lay -- back on your head!!!
Now he can work on helping to steal control of Hell from Satan.
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
129. dead, or livin' large on a far away beach......
after all, the guys got more money than he knows what to do with, political connections up in the yin-yang, and was out on bail....how hard would it be for him to fake his death and slip out of the country on a private jet while everyone is celebrating the long july 4th weekend.....

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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #129
133. Yes, the timing is quite questionable. Tinfoil hat job for sure.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #129
150. It certainly is possible. He has the resources to do it. Scum, enough.

I am not saying he did. But, why wouldn't he?

He has the resources, connections. Plus, he has proven himself a completely unethical criminal. Why would anyone put that past him?

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rusty charly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
131. Ken Laid?
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
132. Does that mean he will be living in Mexico ?
Is he really dead?
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #132
138. Some how I believe he will be cremated and no one will know for sure.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
134. An eternity burning in Hell would be too good for this guy, for what he
and his buddies did to the investors in Enron. And the employees.

And for engineering the California energy crisis in cahoots with the BFEE.

I would have preferred a slow, lingering, painful demise in prison.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
137. Speak not ill of the dead
So I will observe a very long, stoney silence for Ken Lay.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
143. Why doesn't the headline read 'CONVICTED FELON'

What is with all the nicey nice bullshit?

CONVICTED FELON AND PERPETRATOR OF THE LARGEST CORPORATE FRAUD SCANDAL IN US HISTORY DIES?

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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
156. Those who said he'd never go to jail were, sadly, correct.
I wonder how many Enron employees had fatal heart attacks when they found out how badly they'd been screwed over.

Bake
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
157. I wish peace for the family and 10,000 yrs of Purgatory for him. nt
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
161. *BREAKING* Ken Lay Spotted on a Beach in Tahiti
:tinfoilhat:
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
164. Here's an update
Enron founder Ken Lay dies of heart attack

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Enron Corp. founder and former Chief Executive Ken Lay, who was convicted in May for his role in the Houston-based company's downfall, died after suffering a heart attack on Wednesday at his vacation home in Colorado.

"Ken Lay passed away early this morning in Aspen," Lay family spokeswoman Kelly Kimberly said statement.

Lay, 64, was awaiting sentencing later this year and was expected to face a decades in prison for his convictions in the Enron collapse.

Lay and former Enron Chief Executive Jeffrey Skilling were convicted of fraud and conspiracy for hiding the financial ruin at Enron, which tumbled into bankruptcy in December 2001.

Lay, once a confidant of former President George H.W. Bush and dubbed "Kenny boy" by President George W. Bush, often appeared fatigued during the four-month trial, but there was no indication that he had suffered any adverse health effects.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=t...
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
166. Stress?
Perhaps fitting, considering the stress he caused his employees.

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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
167. That just saved Cheney a bunch of sleepless nights....
...I wonder when Abramoff will have a "heart attack".....?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
170. Bush: "That's one less I gotta pardon. Pardoning is hard work...."
"Which means it is difficul or not easy. My pardoning pen is gonna be putting in overtime purty soon. I forget if Uncle Dick said I could pardon myself, or if I could pardon myself for stuff I aint done yet like the nuking thing."
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
172. He pulled a "Milosevic"
B.I.H.
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
173. Probably Stress, Age, Environment and Genetics
I suspect the first was a MAJOR factor.

(Rest In Peace KEN)
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #173
189. In that case, it's a wonder Cheney had such a glowing check-up recently
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #189
195. Is he really living under stress?
Now if we were to hand him over the the hague he would probably die within a week in custody
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #195
219. He has a lot of fires to put out to avoid the Hague &/or Leavenworth
Seeing his puppet fall apart more each day, cronies and fundraisers getting indicted all over the place, his chief of staff under indictment and a candidate for turning state's evidence, the fact that Rove is still playing cutthroat bridge while a good chunk of the INTEL community is toying with him at high-stakes chess, AND the press starting to nibble a bit...

Yeah, I'd say the man is under some stress.

Then there's his charming partner, Lynn. ;)
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carnie_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
180. I guess he'll be waiting for *
in hell.
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Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
181. Well you can say this for him.
He ruined a lot of lives before he died. Hope his family's proud.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
186. How convenient!!!!!


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unda cova brutha Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #186
366. I demand to see the body before I believe he is dead
They did a switch-a-roo on him and he is living in a foreign country without any extradition policys.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
187. Cliff Baxter has company... what about schilling
The trail to Bush is getting killed off...
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
197. How do you punish a guy who stole uncounted billions of dollars?
Allow him to pass on peacefully in his comfortable vacation home surrounded by his loving family.

Who cares for the millions of people he's ruined and the dozens of state and local governments he destroyed.
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classics Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
199. I want to see the body.
This guy is so rich faking his own death to avoid prison would be very easy.

A few million in the right medical examiners pocket, a quick cremation or burial with no close up pictures... hmm.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #199
207. last news report i heard
said an autopsy would be performed to determine cause of death.


as above, i want to see the framed shot of him dead. on tv.

dp
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #207
209. 3D modeling could make a dead Lay in no time. He'd be
virtually dead. And virtually real. And not in the Grand Caymans somewhere.
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lutefisk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #199
220. Faking his death wouldn't be ethical...
...so it's a real possibility. Just waiting for a diversion like the Korean missile crisis as a diversion...

Seems far-fetched, but these people create their own reality (or something like that).
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
202. At least it wasn't a SMALL PLANE crash! Cheney is relieved
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
203. May he rot
:evilgrin:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
216. (Times UK) Enron Founder Ken Lay Dies of Heart Attack
Times Online July 05, 2006


Enron founder Ken Lay dies of heart attack
By Philippe Naughton and agencies


Ken Lay, founder of the huge energy trading firm Enron and perpetrator of one of the biggest white-collar crimes in American history, died today of a heart attack.

Lay, 64, was convicted in May of fraud and conspiracy arising from Enron's spectacular collapse in 2001. He had been due to be sentenced later this year and had faced up to 165 years in jail. "Ken Lay passed away early this morning in Aspen," a family spokeswoman said in a statement read out on CNN.

SNIP

Lay, 64, and former CEO Jeffrey Skilling, 52, were convicted in May of setting up an elaborate scheme to deceive investors and employers over Enrons crumbling finances prior to what was then the largest corporate bankruptcy in US history. Lay and Skillings sentencing had been set for October 23.

Once a prominent Republican fundraiser and stalwart of the Houston oil establishment - President George W Bush used to call him "Kenny Boy", until his fall from grace - Lay had also been found guilty of fraud and conspiracy charges and federal bank fraud charges in a separate non-jury trial.


SNIP

After graduation from Missouri he worked first for Humble Oil & Refining, the predecessor of Exxon Mobil Corp, before joining the Navy, where he served at the Pentagon. He then worked as a federal energy regulator before becoming an undersecretary in charge of energy policy at the Department of Interior. By the time, however, that the US energy industry was deregulated under Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, Lay was already back in business and in 1985 he took advantage of deregulation to merge Houston Natural Gas Co. to the Nebraska-based Inter-North to form Enron.

That company, a sprawling energy and trading conglomerate, reached No 7 in the Fortune 500 and claimed $101 billion in annual revenues but collapsed after it was revealed the companys finances were based on a web of fraudulent partnerships and schemes, not the profits that it reported to investors and the public.

When Lay and Skilling went on trial in US District Court this January, it had had been expected that Lay, who enjoyed great popularity throughout Houston as chairman of the energy company, might be able to charm the jury.

But instead, he ended up coming across as irritable and combative during his testimony. He also sounded arrogant, defending his extravagant lifestyle, including his purchase of a $200,000 yacht for his wife Lindas birthday party despite having $100 million in personal debt, telling the court that "it was difficult to turn off that lifestyle like a spigot".

SNIP

In a message on his website after the verdict, Lay said that he was an innocent man and would work to prove that. He added: "In spite of what has happened, I am still a very blessed man. I have a very warm, loving and Christian wife and family that supports me, as well as many, many loving and supportive friends. Id like to thank all of the people who have shown their concern, support and kept our family in their prayers.

"Most of all, my family and I believe that God is in control and, indeed, He does work all things for good for those who love the Lord. And we love our Lord."
:evilfrown:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
218. This man could have sent Bush and Rove to jail. Very suspicious.
Saves W. from issuing a pardon.
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Acadia Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #218
225. same icon. lol Really, its terrible that we are all so cynical now, but
it does seem that anyone who can put a finger on the filthy shrub dies.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #225
227. Lay had to die, get pardoned or get his conviction overturned on appeal.
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 12:24 PM by McCamy Taylor
Death is by far the easiest option. Lay knew what went on in those secret meetings with Cheney. He knew what was going on with the Taliban before 9-11. He knew why Bush rolled back energy price caps allowing Enron to price gouge California. He knew about illegal sales of Iraqi oil.

I am hoping that he wrote it all down somewhere just in case he died, however if he did the widow will be pressured to keep it quiet.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #227
243. Did Kenny Boy have CIA connections ? Someone to pull this stunt off
had to have the best help possible in order to have the help of loyal BFEE.

I say he's headed for the Cook Islands.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
226. His pastor said he worked with the poor until the end.
I guess that means he kept in touch with his former employees.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #226
236. LOL! Good one! n/t
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
229. Thus passeth the great robber baron of the era.
Should be thrown to the dogs.
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loveable liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
230. I want to see the body.......
a/hole got out of doing time. I apologize for my cynicism. Milosevic conveniently died also.
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BlueInPhilly Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
231. But they say the Clintons did it!
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 12:28 PM by BlueInPhilly
Since Laid (past tense of Lay) started his evil doings in 1998, when Clinton was still president...
And he was invited to the WH several times, when Clinton was president...
And now that Hillary is running for the presidency, Laid could easily spill the beans on the Clintons...

So yes, the Clintons want to see him dead.
:tinfoilhat: :sarcasm:

PS - I gotta stop reading the Freeper board; my IQ temporarily drops several points each time I read Freeper logic :silly:
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occuserpens Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
233. Ken lay dies
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Mistwell Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
238. Rush Limbaugh just mentioned us
Rush Limbaugh just mentioned this thread on his radio program.

You know that old saying about no publicity being bad publicity? I guess we are about to see if that holds up :)
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #238
245. REALLY!?! HEY RUSH! I got a message for you!
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 12:47 PM by Up2Late
YOU SUCK!

How's your Heart Rush!?!

Why are YOU, RUSH, NOT in Prison, you low life, Drug addict, giant bag-O-crap?!?

LOCK UP RUSH NOW!
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Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #245
267. Funny. He hasn't mentioned any of the dozen threads
laughing at his limp dick.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #267
274. And there sure were a lot of GREAT THREADS about Rush's LIMP BOUGH
good times.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #245
347. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
239. ha ha. Burn in hell you piece of of shit. n/t
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
244. Not feeling very charitable today...
As the song says, "Burn, motherf*cker, burn!" :grr:
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cagoldensun5050 Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #244
341. The roof...
The roof...the roof is on fire. We don't need no water; let the motherf*cker burn, baby, BURN!
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
246. I'll believe it when I see a body, this looks like and old BFF getting...
...a get out of the country Free card.
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raiderdiehard2005 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #246
248. Rove had him killed
Think about it. So chimpy wouldn't have to pardon him.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
250. They say these deaths come in threes.
Any speculation as to whom the other two will be?
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
251. Pat Ramsey and Ken Lay
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 01:07 PM by superconnected
Who's next? I can only hope they go in 3's like when the good people die.


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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #251
253. If there is a God it will be Cheney. n/t
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
252. If you die before your appeal...
... does that mean you stay guilty? As in, Ken Lay's estate will be sentenced, or something?

Just hoping...
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #252
291. they're saying it means the opposite
he died before sentencing so the conviction is null

his family will get to keep the fruit of his crimes, from the look of it

i do hope this information is wrong but i don't think it is
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
256. Faking Kenny Boy's death....
...would be MUCH easier for the administration than trying to pardon him and dodge the political fallout.

This way Kenny gets to live out the rest of his years on some tropical island AND Bush doesn't have to risk his 30%ers.

Brilliant.....
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zreosumgame Donating Member (862 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
257. I guess his Medal of Freedom will be posthumous
And now of course his family will no doubt do their best to keep on fucking Grandma Tillie...
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
258. Nothing personal, but I want to see the body.
Right now I'd give odds he's enjoying a cold one on an unnamed tropical island somewhere.

Yep, I'm THAT suspicious.
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think4yourself Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
262. Autopsy, please
I want to see that body too. I agree, all the people he screwed over should pay their respects at his funeral.
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
268. So much for Lay.
He's got a long stint in Purgatory coming to him.

As far as whether the death really was natural...I'm 60/40 in favor of natural causes.
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jo35042 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #268
307. Wondering all day if...
Mr. Lay is in Barbados having plastic surgery as we sit here wondering if he died of natural causes. Death is not a form of Justice for Lay. He should have gone to prison.

I just cannot shake the feeling that he may not really be dead.....My daughter says I watch too much Law and Order
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sfdiva Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
269. New York Times Article about Ken Lay
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badgervan Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #269
305. May He Fry Forever
The S.O.B. never once said he was sorry. It gets pretty warm in Texas in the summer, so I am told - but nothing compared to where Kenny-Boy is now. Do NOT R.I.P. Finally, a piece of justice done.
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darkism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
270. He died before bush had a chance to pardon him?
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 02:54 PM by darkism
:x

On edit: My condolences to his family and friends. Death is NEVER a good thing, whether it be Zarqawi or Lay or anybody else.
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DebbieCDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
277. Good riddance
Another Bushco "fatality"? Awfully "convenient"

Why does the last verse of "Masters of War" keep running through my head?

And I hope that you die
And your death will come soon
I'll follow your casket in the pale afternoon
I'll watch as you're lowered into your death bed
And I'll stand over your grave 'til I'm sure that you're dead

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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
279. Dead men tell no tales.............
or is he shacked up with Usama in paradise never to be bothered again?
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Lena inRI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
285. We need Detective Columbo NOW . .

. . .are you out there, Peter Falk!


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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
287. I wonder if Lay was going to spill the beans on Cheney's Energy Taskforce?
So much for ever finding out.
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
300. wow. Hol-ey wow.
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
301. NOOOOOO OOOOOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOOO!!!
OH GAWD WHY OH WHY??? OH The INHUMANITY!!!! He was so YOUNG and BEAUTIFUL!!!

...


...


...


...

OK I feel better now.
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Ekirh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
302. I don't celebrate death . . .
and I won't start now . . .

but I can't drum up any sympathy what so ever. . . so I'll end there.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
303. It was a heart attack...
Lying next to the body was an invitation he had just received from Dick Cheney asking if he wanted to go hunting with him...

Sorry, folks if you think this is tacky, but I have no sympathy for this guy...
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mode13h_net Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
304. freerepublic complains about wikipedia "bias" on ken lay
Edited on Wed Jul-05-06 05:27 PM by mode13h_net
interestingly enough, some on freerepublic complain about Ken Lay's article at Wikipedia being bush-bashing, biased, etc.. Because Enron had dealt with the Clinton Whitehouse. Of course all the criminal activity happened during THIS administration but that doesn't stop FR from posting things like:

-----------------------------------------------------
To: AliVeritas
Thanks for this find AV.

Top Clinton officials lobbied Indian officials to help Enron CEO Kenneth Lay, a frequent visitor to the Clinton White House, obtain Indian state guarantees for the project after it hit snags in 1995.

The article goes on to say he was a frequent guest at the Clinton WH. Now the Winpeka (ms) which already has his death posted doesn't contain one word of his relationship with Clinton or the donations to his campaign - it's all Bush Bush Bush.
310 posted on 07/05/2006 9:14:10 AM PDT by daybreakcoming (TOL)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 132 | View Replies >
------------------------------------------------------

Now WTF? Now they're going after Wikipedia for liberal media bias? Did someone not tell them that if they so choose, they can actually go on there and edit articles themselves? Or would they rather just complain about it? Sorry for posting a FR quote here, but I just wanted to get my point across ;)

on edit: to clarify, what I mean is the criminal element collaborated with this CURRENT administration.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
306. Welcome to hell, Ken; here's your glowing-red iron maiden.
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kedrys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
309. Someone on the Houston Chronicle bulletin board had an interesting idea
Prop up the body in downtown Houston in front of the (former) Enron building, then have everybody poke it with sticks to make sure the bastard is dead.

I think they'd run out of sticks before they ran out of people. :P
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
310. It will be interesting to see, whether the shrub attends the funeral.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
311. Strange that an uber rich guy never got checked for heart disease.
I mean.. if you have that kind of dough and lifestyle, you'd be getting stress tests, etc. He had coronary artery disease and it was undetected until today? pretty weird.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
313. Guardian UK: Disgraced boss Ken Lay dies at luxury ski chalet
http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1813720,00...

The former Enron chairman whose name became a byword for boardroom deceit and corruption, Ken Lay, died in an exclusive ski resort yesterday while awaiting sentence for his involvement in America's biggest ever corporate fraud.

Police were called to Lay's holiday home near Aspen, Colorado, in the early hours of the morning. The 64-year-old was rushed to the casualty department of a nearby hospital but was pronounced dead by doctors.

There was no official confirmation of the cause of his death but a family friend, pastor Steve Wende of Houston's First United Methodist Church, said Lay had suffered a massive coronary: "His death was totally unexpected. Apparently, his heart simply gave out."

The Colorado authorities said the reason for his collapse would be determined by an autopsy.

<snip>

Former employees yesterday suggested there was some irony in the venue of Lay's death - a luxurious chalet in one of America's most expensive resorts. In Houston, callers to radio stations expressed outrage that he had been allowed to continue enjoying such conditions. Mimi Schwartz, co-author of Power Failure, a book about the demise of Enron, said there was still a great deal of anger in Houston: "People wanted to see the end of the story. The narrative people were buying into was that the story would end with Ken Lay being led away in handcuffs and shackles."

...more...
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
315. Like Bob Dylan said in "Idiot Wind"
Bush can't help it if he's lucky.

"They say I shot a man named Gray,
and took his wife to Italy.
She inherited a million bucks,
and when she died it came to me.

I can't help it if I'm lucky."

Sometimes you make your own luck.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
317. I don't ever revel in someone's death
But, I also do not mourn the passing of this horrible, evil in'duh'vidual
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
318. He had no earlobe crease
as everybody knows, a diagonal crease in the earlobe is quite possibly one of the best indicators of coronary disease, yet Lay has none in any of the photos I've seen.

I don't think ths was a coincidence.
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erpowers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
319. Sucide
Does anyone at DU think this was a suicide that is being called a heart attack?
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lse7581011 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #319
321. That Was My First Thought
upon hearing the news!
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
322. In the words of Hans Gruber
"Well, when you steal $600, you can just disappear. But when you steal $600 million, they will find you, unless they think you're already dead."
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
324. KARMA is HEL!!!
What comes around... goes around!
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
333. I'd get a DNA test on that body.
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2QT2BSTR8 Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
334. I don't believe for one flippin' minute....
that ol' Kenny boy is dead. Not until I see his fake autopsy, and fake DNA screening leaked to the press, and ultimately the Internet will I ever believe it. And even though I may be skeptical.

Yeah! Right! And even if he is dead, and that is a BIG IF...he is still going to be the phillips of our generation. Cuz he screwed, and screwed, and screwed....etc...you get the....screw....point!
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MacCovern Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
335. I Really Like His Potato Chips!
Who knows what happened with Enron, but I love his tater chips.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
336. They found
a wax double. Kenny Boy is at DeLay's Marianas retreat being served by wage slaves.
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BEZERKO Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
340. Tragic,
I wanted to see the man in pinstripes, a heart attack was too good for him.

This whole thing smells like suicide to me. "In England, a man is given time to tidy up his affairs." In America now, I guess.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #340
342. I agree
I think he off'ed himself. I don't care what they say. Last but, not least - fuck'em. I can't stand phoney people who won't call a bastard a bastard because he died. He was a no good SOB both alive and dead. So how ya doin? And with that little rant, welcome to DU ;-)
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
348. If only it were true.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
352. arranged.
totally.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
354. Hell, receive an honored guest...
...Kenneth Lay is laid to rest. :-)






(With apologies to W.H.A.)
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The Onyx Key Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-06-06 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
368. My wife this morning said "I know it;s not Christian, but I'm
glad he's dead, and sorry he didn't come to justice on this Earth."

Heh...bless her!
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