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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 10:04 PM
Original message
CBS: Ex-Spies: CIA Workers Outraged
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/25/iraq/main5604...

Before the bombs fell on Baghdad, there were analysts inside the American intelligence community who were troubled by the U.S. case for war, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Acosta.

Raymond McGovern, a former CIA analyst and supervisor, says, "Never before in my 40 years of experience in this town has intelligence been used in so cynical and so orchestrated a way."

McGovern is one of several retired intelligence analysts who say they are speaking out for those who can't inside the CIA.

"The Agency analysts that we are in touch with are disheartened, dispirited, angry, he says. They are outraged."
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Agency Analysts
"The Agency analysts that we are in touch with are disheartened, dispirited, angry, he says. They are outraged"

I hope they are outrged enough to spill the beans on this whole ugly affair.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good! Let's hear them loud and clear!
I am soooo glad the Chimpster decide to use and abuse the CIA.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. think about that
He should know that these guys don't take public browbeating lying down....

Do you think he believed that he was just damaging Tenet and didn't realize he was kicking a hive of some very, very nasty bees?
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rocketdem Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. the time for hearings has arrived
I understand that because there are legitimate national security issues involved that some of these would have to be behind closed doors, but if this is even partially true, then hearings are needed right now.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Time for a Special Prosecutor to blow this story
wide open for all to see. Open hearings on everything, except the most sensitive intel related to Al Qaida. Everything related to Iraq must be in the open so we can crucify the Bushistas for their fraud.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Absolutely.
From a column by John Dean calling for a special prosecutor:
What I found, in critically examining Bush's evidence, is not pretty. The African uranium matter is merely indicative of larger problems, and troubling questions of potential and widespread criminality when taking the nation to war. It appears that not only the Niger uranium hoax, but most everything else that Bush said about Saddam Hussein's weapons was false, fabricated, exaggerated, or phony.
. . .
So egregious and serious are Bush's misrepresentations that they appear to be a deliberate effort to mislead Congress and the public. So arrogant and secretive is the Bush White House that only a special prosecutor can effectively answer and address these troubling matters. Since the Independent Counsel statute has expired, the burden is on President Bush to appoint a special prosecutor - and if he fails to do so, he should be held accountable by Congress and the public.
. . .
There is an unsavory stench about Bush's claims to the Congress, and nation, about Saddam Hussein's WMD threat. The deceptions are too apparent. There are simply too many unanswered questions, which have been growing daily. If the Independent Counsel law were still in existence, this situation would justify the appointment of an Independent Counsel.

Because that law has expired, if President Bush truly has nothing to hide, he should appoint a special prosecutor. After all, Presidents Nixon and Clinton, when not subject to the Independent Counsel law, appointed special prosecutors to investigate matters much less serious. If President Bush is truly the square shooter he portrays himself to be, he should appoint a special prosecutor to undertake an investigation.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030718.html

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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Does anyone wonder why this administration needed to create
the Office of Special Plans?

Obviously, they didn't trust the CIA to politicize the data. The solution? Create your own unaccountable CIA-type organization.


These guys really need a good impeaching....soon.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Impeaching isn't good enough. They need to be gift-wrapped
They need to be gift-wrapped and dropped into Iraq with a note reading

A gift from the American People.
With our deepest, sincerest apologies...
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I'm good at tying ribbons.
:)
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intheozone Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. LOL!!!
that is too funny!
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. And Root Out this Cancerous Oil Cabal Once and For All.
We could have gotten them more than once before.

I would love to see
all the kings man come
a tumbling down in my lifetime.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. I have been thinking a lot about
that. They needed their "own guys", not those responsible to us but those responsible to them alone. They are like minded and not (at least I don't think) under the same set of rules. This is perhaps why they can say with such certainty that their intellegence was correct. It probably was according to OSP. I really think this needs to be looked into, who actually did report to the admin? I doubt it was the CIA or the FBI. My guess is they reported to OSP and OSP took it to the admin. I could be very wrong about this but I suspect this is where they think they have an out.
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Resistance Is Futile Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. The other talents of the CIA
The CIA has a long history of ensuring that free and democratic elections in the 3rd world turn out in a way the White House happens to like. It would be extremely damaging to the Shrubbian Junta if some of these electioneering experts were to start--shall we say--freelancing...
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Zech Marquis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. without saying too much in public
I will just say the people who have ben abused by the fake intel are NOT strangers to me (in a good way, but no more detaols...think Matcom's dad) Never, EVER piss off the CIA, because they WILL, withput a dout in my mind, get their revenge :nuke:
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Well, then, allow me to suggest
you give your friends a swift (and friendly) kick in the rear and get them enraged enough to blow this whole thing open.

Pretty please? :)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. I agree. I am on a mailing list of former
agents. they are not happy at all. Most were supporters of Bush, but now are openly hostile, or silent on the issues. I even see anti bush jokes and cartoons out of them.

I think a lot of Repubs will sit on their hands this election.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bits and pieces
Edited on Sat Jul-19-03 11:19 PM by teryang
Korbs comment about making a case to the jury is in the right direction but a little bit off. In the affairs of state, one is rarely if ever in possession of enough evidence to make out a case that would lead to a decision beyond a reasonable doubt.

Bits and pieces are all you get most of the time from closed societies. It is the judgement of the analyst and the statesman to place the bits and pieces in context to make a decision or to act or refrain from acting. In fact, this is what distinguishes the best intel people and the best statesmen who know better than to depend on bubble up intelligence. They must make their own judgement and then make the correct policy recommendation or decision respectively. People who wait to be able to make a case are too far behind the curve. On the other hand, cynics believe that social and political factors are nothing more than spin and that you can create your own reality on the ground with the raw exercise of power. These people really believe that reality is what we say it is because that is what they learned in corporate marketing.

One last group needs to be mentioned, elected officials and those who seek high office, who say they relied on the information provided by others. They are either fools or lying. A core Constitutional function of Congress is to collect information so that rational policy choices can be undertaken. Anyone in Congress who relies on others to supply the interpretation of data and then respond in a knee jerk fashion as many have claimed they did are negligent in their protection of the public trust and the very sovereignty of the American people.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Your post got me to thinking....
Seems like the Congress we now have is the culmination of too many elections handled by professional pollsters who rely on focus groups to dictate their voting decisions. They have been carefully chosen for their reliance on the opinions and recommendations of their advisors. For the most part, they have won their elections, but lost their reason for being elected to Congress. And they are too out of touch with the people that elected them. Convictionless, they seem paralyzed by fear to take this administration on.

The only ones with purpose seem to be the radical Republicans and we know that their agenda has nothing to do with true American values or the sense of fair play. They are into totalitarianism and the single minded conviction that they are right, regardless of the facts.

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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Majority leader King (R) to Gov. John Ellis Bush
...on pending medical tort reform bill in special session: we are being bludgeoned into submission because we differ from the Governor in some respects. He is the source of polarizing rhetoric. He tells fundraisers not to support Republicans who differ with him. Who are they supposed to support? Democrats? What ever happened to checks and balances?

Total submission is what is demanded from the BFEE. The public be damned.
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. I saw Mr. McGovern on tonight's CBS News. He was PISSED!
I hope he gets called to the "Hill" to testify! We need to know the truth...all of it!

:bounce:
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. Well ....so has the majority of America despite the phoney polls!!!!
Tensions just couldn't be higher.
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CafeToad Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
19. Hey - all you CIA/Military types who hated Clinton
Maybe, just maybe, he wasn't so bad after all!

Too bad you weren't 'intelligent' enough to figure that out in advance!



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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
20. THANKS!! Sent To Dadcom For Review
:hi:

drip, drip, drip, drip
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. The intrigue grows daily
And this story needs a KICK!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
24. I Just Love This Part From The Article !!!
<snip>

White House officials said Friday that President Bush and his national security advisor, Condoleezza Rice, did not entirely read the most authoritative prewar assessment of U.S. intelligence on Iraq, missing a State Department claim that an allegation Bush would later use in his State of the Union address was "highly dubious," the Washington Post reports.

<snip>

Wasn't that the same fucked up excuse about the 'planes being used as missles' in the pre 9\11 intelligence reports???

"We had no idea... Nobody would have ever imagined... We were never warned..."

That's only because they new EXACTLY what was gonna happen. So why bother reading contradictory information???

:shrug:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Does Condi know anything?
For someone who is the head of NSA, you would think she would know, a little more than most DUers, about what's going on in the world.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
25. Kick
:dem:
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renegade000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. it really isn't healthy to screw around with the CIA
eom
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
28. Link has changed. NO longer the story you posted. Anyone save to disk?
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/20/iraq/main564106.shtml
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. Why are they so surprised?
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