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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 02:25 PM
Original message
Reporter Assaulted After Interview, Loses Tape
Edited on Thu Jun-01-06 02:28 PM by seriousstan
(CBS) LOS ANGELES A local radio reporter was assaulted Thursday while leaving a Los Angeles charter school that his station has said imparts separatist ethics, a station official said.

The reporter, Sandy Wells, was not hurt, according to station spokesman Steve Sheldon.

Wells was leaving the campus of Academia Semillas Del Pueblo, 4736 Huntington Drive, after interviewing the principal when a car came around the corner, jumped the curb and the driver tried to run him down, Sheldon said.

Wells managed to dodge the car, but the driver, a man who appeared to be in his mid-20s, got out and tackled him, taking away his tape recorder, he said.


http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_152141129.html

Here is another interview with the principal....

http://www.kabc.com/mcintyre/goout.asp?u=http://www.tcla.gseis.ucla.edu/equalterms/dialogue/2/aguilar.html
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. When are people going to wake up about charter schools?
It's just a way to drain taxpayer dollars away from the public school system, which is a secret agenda of the right wing, if you ask me.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think you are confused
I don't know what you think charter schools are, but you certainly can't blanket them all with that statement. My wife is a teacher at a very progressive Montessori charter school. It has absolutely nothing to do with any branch of the 'right wing'.

Here are some of the highlights of my wifes school:

California public school
Tuition Free
Montessori-based curriculum
Curriculum aligned to CA state standards
Credentialed and Montessori trained teachers
Before/After School programs
Intersession Programs
Quality Montessori materials
Low student/teacher ratios
Multiple Site Locations

In addition, they require a high participation rate from the parents of the students. Our 7 year old (who attends this school) was recently tested, and has the vocabulary of a 16 year old. Yeah, what a drain on taxpayer dollars. :silly:


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NorthernSun Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Public or charter?
If it is a free public school then why label it a 'charter' school?

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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Charter school board of directors are not elected or appointed...
by elected officials as per their charter.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
46. My niece went to an excellent charter school and was fluent in French
by the time she was 9 yrs old. She's 14 now and completely bilingual. She also received such an excellent education that she was awarded a full scholarship to the most expensive private school in our city, where she is now thriving. I don't think that this is an opportunity she would have had if she had gone to "regular" public schools.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Charter
Edited on Thu Jun-01-06 11:00 PM by Greyskye
Because it fits the legal definition of a charter school. Private/fee-based does not equal charter. My wifes school must be doing something right - the waiting list is the same size as the student population.

From the California Charter Schools Association (http://www.charterassociation.org/cnt_about_charter_description.asp)

What is a Charter School?

A charter school is a public school.

A charter school can provide instruction from kindergarten through 12th grade.

Charter schools are typically created by a group of parents, teachers, administrators, community leaders or a local community-based organization.

Charter schools are created when a group of parents, teachers and community leaders petition a local school board or county board of education for a charter to open an independent school in their community.

Questions and Answers About Charter Schools

WHY ARE THESE SCHOOLS CALLED "CHARTERS?"

Charter school operators set forth their goals and operating procedures in a contract that is reached with the local school district, county board of education or the state. This contract is called a "charter."

WHO PAYS TO OPERATE CHARTER SCHOOLS?

You pay to operate charter schools through the taxes you pay. Charter schools receive their funding directly from the state of California.

HOW ARE CHARTER SCHOOLS GOVERNED?

Charter schools have their own boards of education and operate independently of local school districts. Local schools districts and county boards of education, however, have an oversight responsibility over charter schools and review the progress of charter schools. Local school districts, county boards of education and the state can revoke charters.

A charter school is generally exempt from most laws governing school districts, except where specifically noted in the law.

HOW DO WE KNOW IF THE STUDENTS ARE DOING WELL AT CHARTER SCHOOLS?

Charter schools in California are required to participate in the statewide assessment test, called the STAR (Standardized Testing and Reporting) program. Charter schools are accountable to their sponsor -usually a state or local school board- to produce positive academic results and adhere to the charter contract. The basic concept of charter schools is that they exercise increased autonomy in return for this accountability.

ARE CHARTER SCHOOLS PRIVATE SCHOOLS?

No. All charter schools are public schools. The charter law prohibits the conversion of a private school to a charter school.

CAN CHARTER SCHOOLS TEACH RELIGION?

No. Charter schools must be nonsectarian in their programs, admission policies, employment practices, and all other operations.

DOES IT COST EXTRA TO SEND MY CHILD TO A CHARTER SCHOOL?

No. Charter schools may not charge tuition and may not discriminate against any pupil on the basis of ethnicity, national origin, gender, or disability.

HOW MANY CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE THERE?

There are currently 574 charter schools operating in California, serving over 200,000 students. There are more than 1 million students nationwide attending more than 3,600 charter schools nationwide. The number of students attending charter schools is increasing at a rate of about 15 percent a year in the United States.

WHY CHARTER SCHOOLS?

Public charter schools offer an important and timely public school option to address the challenges facing our traditional education system. Charter schools are an exciting and high-potential alternative for the following reasons:

Most efforts to reform high-need public schools in California have failed. Charter schools provide parents the opportunity to offer real input in their child's education.

Charter schools give educators freedom to try new strategies to inspire student achievement.

Charter schools, less encumbered by the bureaucratic barriers that face other public schools, have the potential to spark system-wide change.

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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I don't care. I don't want to pay for it.
I am certainly not confused. Montessori is a CHOICE and not something I would choose for my own child.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Fine.
As you say, it is a choice. Where in the world did I say anything different? Your tax dollars pay for the type of education you wish for your child. My tax dollars do the same for mine.

Not all children do well with every type of educational structure. My 7 year old - who has ADHD - would go nuts and suffer academically in the standard "sit at your desk and memorize these facts" curriculum which is standard in California mainstream public schools. As it is, he is thriving academically, and the self-paced Montessori method allows him to work many grade levels above his actual grade level in areas that he excels in.

It sounds like you wish to take the choice away from me. Sorry, it goes both ways.

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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. My father spent his entire professional life teaching in public schools
and every year we had to depend on millage elections to see if he even got a cost of living wage.

I know one person who went to a Montessori school and it was the wrong choice for her. Luckily, my tax dollars didn't pay for it. I don't want a DIME of my money going to a charter school.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Both of my in-laws...
...are life-long (retired) public school teachers. They can't say enough good things about our son's school. My mother-in-law volunteers as an aide upon occassion because she loves the interaction with the children and the environment at the school.

I'm sorry you had poor experiences, but don't take the CHOICE away from the rest of us.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Why do you hate public schools?
And why are you afraid to have your child in one?
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Straw man.

I don't hate the public school system, I grew up in it. And how many friggin times do I have to repeat that California charter schools are part of the public school system?

As I explained in an earlier post, our child would not do well in the typical mainstream public school system, due to the way the classes are structured.

Why are you afraid to give me a choice?
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Straw man? You have GOT to be kidding.
I'm sorry that your child can't fit into the regular public system. I wish that the regular public schools were large enough and funded enough to offer options that would work for learning-disabled people of all stripes. But as long as money is drained away from them, it won't happen. Supporting a progressive school is not the issue. But charter schools (as evidenced in the article) are NOT all progressive, in fact, I would venture that most of them are NOT, and I do not want my tax money drained away from the public system.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. And I'm sorry you can't see beyond your prejudice

And supporting progressive schools is the issue. You can make all the claims you want, but that does not make you correct.

Liberals are generally accepted as being in favor of choice; so I'm puzzled why you wish to take the choice away from MY family. You seem to be telling me that in order to fix the broken system, I should put my child in a situation where he is doomed to failure. Sorry, not going to happen.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. And right-wing whackos think that they should have a choice to
to send their kids to school (on my dime) where they learn that evolution is a theory and that global warming isn't good science. I would be hypocritical if I thought that progressive charter schools were okay and that regressive ones were not. Charters are only part of the public schools because public dollars pay for them. I think that they are insidious and the fact that the teachers "don't feel a need to unionize" is shocking. That's what the Japanese car companies said too, as they participated in the corporate de-unionization of this country.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. You can't see beyond your self-professed "hatred"
You say:

And right-wing whackos think that they should have a choice to send their kids to school (on my dime) where they learn that evolution is a theory and that global warming isn't good science.


Please get this through your head: IT IS ILLEGAL FOR A CHARTER SCHOOL TO TEACH RELIGION

Snip from the California Charter School Association website posted up-thread:


CAN CHARTER SCHOOLS TEACH RELIGION?

No. Charter schools must be nonsectarian in their programs, admission policies, employment practices, and all other operations.


I refuse to get into a discussion of unionization, since I am not a teacher nor an administrator of the school. As far as I'm concerned, that is a matter for them.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. And no, I'm NOT kidding
You said:

Why do you hate public schools? And why are you afraid to have your child in one?


Both of these questions are classic examples of a straw man arguement. I never stated nor implied that I either "hate public schools", or that I am "afraid to have child in one".

Please stick to rational discussion. Thank you.

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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. No, I was trying to get your goat and I think I succeeded
I think you are against traditional public schools and my intent was to call you on it.

We're never going to agree on this, obviously. I think the union issue is an important one. I don't think it's a straw man issue.

It also worries me that Bush is a big fan of charter schools. The homeschooling crowd are also big fans of charter schools. And whether or not teaching bad science or religion is illegal doesn't mean that it doesn't happen (heck, it happens in regular public schools!)
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I'm glad you think that's a good debate tactic

And I'm sorry you have to call me a liar; since I have stated that I am NOT against the traditional public school system, but AM in favor of choice.

Again, you are attempting to change the discussion in a manner worthy of a GOP spinmeister. Please point to where I stated anything you said regarding unions as a straw man argument. Asking why I "hate public schools" and why I am "afraid to have my child in a (mainstream) public school" are examples of what I was referring to.

Regarding the illegality of religion in school - then enforce the current laws. Don't punish the children. Which removing educational options does.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. You can get the same argument from home school parents.
Edited on Fri Jun-02-06 04:43 PM by superconnected
Charter schools repeatedly under preform against public schools.

But these guys arent willing to admit it.

I'd bother to start looking up studies on it, as there have been many, but frankly I don't feel like engaging the these people. It isn't a lot different than engaging wackos defending repukes or homeschool defenders, when it comes down to it.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Ad hominem
Thanks for lumping charter school advocates in with "wackos defending repukes". :eyes:

As far as your claim that "Charter schools repeatedly under preform against public schools" (sic - they are public schools) that is probably true in some circumstances. What is usually not factored into the equation is this:

Parents utilize/create charter schools often to meet children's needs which were not being addressed in the 'regular' public school system. Learning disabilities, etc. Therefore, charter schools often end up with the children who were utterly and completely failing in the 'regular' public school system. Even in the best charter schools, it can take a while to get these kids up to speed. In the meantime, the charter schools standardized testing scores go down, while the 'regular' public schools scores go up since they no longer have these kids in 'their' system.

My wife is teaching a combined 2nd/3rd grade class this year. When the school year started, something like 12 of her students were reading 1-3 years below grade average. I believe that currently, all but 2 of her kids are above grade level for reading. It took the entire school year to get there, but she did it. I'm so proud of her! :hug:
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
58. Why do YOU hate public schools (charter schools ARE public schools)?
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Oh, and PS - I didn't say all charter schools were right wing
I said that getting rid of PUBLIC schools is a secret right wing agenda. And I stand by that statement. I do not believe that Republicans want an educated populace, and they certainly don't believe in having higher education be free. I do.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. No, you said:

"When are people going to wake up about charter schools? It's just a way to drain taxpayer dollars away from the public school system, which is a secret agenda of the right wing, if you ask me."

You've been educated up-thread that charter schools ARE part of the public school system, AND are free. You were wrong, and should admit such. IMHO.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well they shouldn't be. I HATE charter schools.
And you know what? You are making me so angry that I am afraid to even post anything more.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm sorry that learning the truth makes you angry.

Care to share why you "HATE charter schools"?

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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Can kids WALK to your wife's school? do they provide sports?
and music? Or do they insist on going to the public school for music and sports, as happened at my father's school? Oh yeah, they wanted US to pay for their stupid charter schools, but they still wanted to use the public school facilities. And the school system didn't get the money from the state that they would have if the kids were enrolled there.

Are the teachers in a union?

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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Yes and yes.

Kids who are close can walk to school.
Yes they provide sports.
Yes, they have a fabulous music program. I actually take music lessons privately from the schools music teacher.
No, they don't use any other public schools facilities.
No, the teachers in this particular school are not in a union.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yeah, well there you go
I'm happy they have good music and (presumably) good competitive sports teams, but I am sorry that the teachers are not in a union. Whether or not your PARTICULAR school is a good one isn't the whole issue, imho. Charter schools do insididious things like undermine teachers' unions, which is one of the things I don't like about them. The teachers' union was good to my father, and good to our family. We all got good health benefits and now he has a fair retirement program. We are a pro union family anyway, but his union was a good one.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I'm glad you finally found something about the school...
...that you can point to and go "AH-HA!".

No one is stopping the teachers from unionizing. There has simply been no call for it. The teachers don't seem to be interested. Are you saying that they should be forced to unionize?
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Actually, yes.
Talk about prejudice. Those who think they unions don't matter are the thin end of the wedge against all unions.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Another straw man

I NEVER said that unions don't matter. I happen to think that unions have a long and important historical legacy.

"He who continually resorts to a straw-man argument is grasping at straws." - me
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. No, it's one of the many "thin end of the wedge" things about charter
schools that is helping to undermine our regular public schools! From MY point of view, you just don't see it. I'm glad your learning-disabled child has a place to go to school. I wish it could be in the regular public school. I'm sorry your wife doesn't want to be in a union. I wish schools were all safe, well funded, and offered lots of options. I wish higher education were free. I wish every child in this country could easily walk or get a bus to school and have lots of after school options and all the arts, sports, and music they wanted. I also think that you are very dismissive of my fear of charter schools because your child's school happens to be good. You probably think I am being dismissive of you. So, there we go, impasse.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. no clever subject line

No, it's one of the many "thin end of the wedge" things about charter schools that is helping to undermine our regular public schools! From MY point of view, you just don't see it. I'm glad your learning-disabled child has a place to go to school. I wish it could be in the regular public school.


I wish as well that he could thrive in the 'regular' public school system. As it is, he is thriving in the 'irregular' PUBLIC school system.


I'm sorry your wife doesn't want to be in a union.

And I'm surprised that you know more about my wife than I do. We've never actually talked about her desire to be unionized or not. Being in the teachers union was very good for my in-laws, and has helped them considerably in their retirement.



I wish schools were all safe, well funded, and offered lots of options. I wish higher education were free. I wish every child in this country could easily walk or get a bus to school and have lots of after school options and all the arts, sports, and music they wanted.


We agree on EVERYTHING there. :toast: :party:

I also think that you are very dismissive of my fear of charter schools because your child's school happens to be good. You probably think I am being dismissive of you. So, there we go, impasse.


Actually, I feel that you are conflating 'charter schools' with 'school vouchers' - which I happen to feel are a pox upon society. If you want to go on a rant about school vouchers, I'll be right there by your side!
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Yay, we agree on stuff!
I'm sure we would like each other in person, but charter schools are a thing that worries me and I do think you are being a little dismissive when I outline the things that worry me and you say they are straw man arguments. Vouchers, same thing.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. clarification

Your biggest issue that I can pin you down on seem to be unionization. I have not once in this discussion referred to any statement of yours regarding unions as a straw man argument.

And just to be perfectly clear - I think vouchers are terrible. I just think that you are conflating school vouchers and charter schools. They are NOT the same thing!!!
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. I know they are not the same thing.
I live in Washington state, and we have voted down charter schools twice.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. In that case...
...I'm glad that you have such an up-close and knowledgeable grasp of how charter schools work in California.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. When the message is shrieked how can it be listened to?
I really hope you don't do face to face advocacy for unions with the attitude you've displayed on this thread.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. lisa, they ARE part of the
public school system in california. are you in california?
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. I've stated that fact in just about every other message

That's what seems to upset her the most.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. I KNOW they are funded publicly
and it does upset me. I don't want them to be. The school described in the article should not be. And, I think that it's a de facto private school.

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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. In that case...
...please take out your vitriol on the specific schools which are breaking or skating the law, and not tar all charter schools with that same broad brush.
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Blaq Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
48. Right-Wingers has always been trying to derail the public school system
Since schools integrated in the 1960's, racist whites has wanted to shut down the public school system. They want to privatize it since the idea of public education originated during post civil war reconstruction for the purpose of education poor blacks.

Charter school is a bad idea. It still doesn't explain what should be done to kids who fall completely off the charts. It would be wiser to simply invest in schools that really need it instead of shifting kids around.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. see post #43
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-01-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. that was a very interesting interview with the principal
thanks for posting it.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. The reporter respresents a right-wing talk radio station....
That's got a campaign going against the school. www.kabc.com/mcintyre/goout.asp?u=http://www.kabc.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=437469&PT=

I also found the interview interesting--& not at all "negative."



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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. I didn't find it negative at all, either
And that was also my take on this campaign -- a typical rightwing racist ploy. I also think the reporter's account of an assault is BS.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. okay, righties: are you *still* in love with the notion...
... of public funding for "school choice", and other private agendas in education?

I mean, gee whiz... could it be that a society actually NEEDS a healthy and well-supported public sphere to provide a common ground of shared institutions and experiences? Could it be that without such a commons, a society will tend to balkanize and break apart along ethnic, linguistic, and religious lines? Could it be that replacing a coherent public sphere with an array of competing religious and ethnic chauvinisms threatens to make life worse for most of us?


:think:
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
57. that's not what this is about
Charter schools can't, by definition, be religious in nature or ethnically chauvinistic. I think you're talking about vouchers and private schools.

I'm also grossly offended by being called a rightie. I'm as left as they come.

(Grey skye's wife)
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. yes, that IS what this is about...
The charter school in this news story DOES appear to have been founded with an racial particularist agenda. Not everyone wants their tax dollars to support that sort of thing. And I've pointed out that the conservatives who are all atwitter over the menace of separatist schools really should have seen it coming; their various "school choice" schemes have chipped away at the society's common ground, and made possible the growing balkanization that they now belatedly fear.


I'm also grossly offended by being called a rightie. I'm as left as they come.

You're also grossly in need of reading my original post more carefully. I never called you a rightie. In fact, I hadn't addressed you at all.
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
36. As a public-school teacher and a proud member
of the National Education Association, I have seen evidence that there IS A RIGHT WING GOAL REGARDING THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. That goal is, simply, to destroy the system. In the history of our country, our public school system has been the great equalizer for all people. The RW wants the public system replaced with private schools, preferably run by religious organizations....and, they want public tax money to help fund them.

Many public school systems offer a choice for students with specialized needs or special talents to attend a "public" charter school, but even this is a slippery slope, which I think you can see. Personally, I only want my tax money going for "true" public schools. If the money was available, as it should be but is not, the public schools ideally should be able to provide for students with disabilities or with special talents. As long as tax money is siphoned off for "specialized schools," the public schools don't stand a chance.

Our public school system is not broken. The financial support and respect for learning are broken.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I agree with most of what you say.
As a public-school teacher and a proud member of the National Education Association, I have seen evidence that there IS A RIGHT WING GOAL REGARDING THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. That goal is, simply, to destroy the system. In the history of our country, our public school system has been the great equalizer for all people. The RW wants the public system replaced with private schools, preferably run by religious organizations....and, they want public tax money to help fund them.


I agree with every single point you make above.

Many public school systems offer a choice for students with specialized needs or special talents to attend a "public" charter school, but even this is a slippery slope, which I think you can see. Personally, I only want my tax money going for "true" public schools. If the money was available, as it should be but is not, the public schools ideally should be able to provide for students with disabilities or with special talents. As long as tax money is siphoned off for "specialized schools," the public schools don't stand a chance.

Our public school system is not broken. The financial support and respect for learning are broken.


The charter school that I am familiar with has a contract with the school district that it resides in. The school gets a set amount of money per student; which goes to either the 'regular' public school, or to the charter school. Student 'X' would either be going to one school or the other. The school district does not lose any tax money on a per student basis - so I fail to see how this is siphoning off money. They are BOTH in the public school system.
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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I counted 12 "specialized" schools in our fairly rural area
so, whereas the student population remains the same, and the money we receive from the state per pupil remains the same....other expenses increase! Especially plant facilities, teachers with specialized training, busses, food, utility bills, etc. etc.

I envision a public school system in which the needs of all students are met....but, that takes money and takes committment to the principle that all children in this country deserve an "equal" education. "Separate, but equal" doesn't work for me, whether you are talking of race, disability or talent.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. I agree.

But until our country actually puts its money where its mouth is regarding education funding, I'm afraid it's not going to happen. You can't spin gold out of straw - put 5% of the military budget into education, and we could have a REAL 'no child left behind'.

Charter schools aren't the problem - they are just a symptom of a chronically underfunded national education system. Fund the system properly, and the need for the charter school system would vanish.
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pooja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
54. The whole education system needs to be revamped
We are not doing our children any favors by teaching them a, b, c, or d. Where has analytical thinking and creativity gone. Why are we not teaching children a second language earlier. It is easier for children to learn languages when they are first starting to read and write. Why are we not spending more time "training" workers at a highschool level. Why must they sit in classes for four years only to come out and pay for at least 2 yrs on their own to be a nurse, police officer, office assistant. Lets face it, when bill gates says to the country-- you aren't producing people I can hire-- you listen. Technology, medical fields, and hospitality are the growing industries now in the United States. We cannot continue producing students who have no real world knowledge.

These kids come in and apply for jobs with clothes hanging off or not even on. They speak like you know like... They do not have a clue as to how to write a resume.

Also, while I admire the teachers and the efforts they put in... believe me my mother and sister work hard with their students.... there has to be a measure of accountability. Why hide behind a union. Throw out the bad one's. And there are some bad one's. I had a science teacher who was waiting to retire...I majored in science in school. When I got to college I was so underprepared. I had to double time it to compete with my peers and I went to college in South Carolina. I had a northern education and I was screwed. Lose the bad teachers and stop protecting them in your web of the union.
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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. I appreciate that you....

...have taken an active role in your child's education, doing what needs to be done, one person at a time. In a country that doesn't really value higher education, I wish more parents would find schools, mainstream or otherwise, that actually provide a learning experience.

I pulled into a rest area on interstate 5 in CA a couple of years ago because a sign said somebody was selling coffee and cookies...didn't catch WHO...

Turns out it was a high school raising money for football uniforms. The principal was there and in charge. So was her son, who, coincidently, was the teams quarterback........

We discussed the relative merits of her plan but since she saw me getting out of an 18 wheeler, I don't think she was taking me seriously......On the off chance that she reads DU here's my long delayed response to her cheery dismissal of my skepticism:

"I don't think your consumerist culture really wants an educated population. An educated person wouldn't buy the junk that is America's strength. Y'know cars, burgers, pills, etc..."





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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. message from a teacher
I'm greyskye's wife, the charter school teacher. I love this thread - glad to see so much interest and debate (even if it is heated) about education. If only your statement were true! Charter schools do not qualify for facilities funding until they've been up and running for several years, and even then it's a fraction of what traditional public schools receive. As for specialized training, we (teachers) have to pay for that ourselves. We don't get to use busses, don't have school lunch programs, don't get help with utility bills, etc. Needless to say, we have learned how to raise funds! Those of you who are so concerned about tax dollars being funneled away from public schools in California needn't worry so much. We get SO little!

Separate but equal also doesn't apply here, because charter schools are not allowed to pick and choose their students any more than any other public school. We don't even have district geographical boundaries - we have to take everyone. Since there is such a demand for us in the area, we have to hold an annual lottery to take students from the waiting list. If charter schools are really so bad, why is our waiting list so long?

I am a staunch supporter of public schools - I attended them through college and my parents taught in them. Please realize that we are a part of the public school system, not an effort to undermine them. I don't believe that my school is right for everyone any more than I believe the traditional public school system is. Our nation is supposed to be founded on freedom of choice. Why shouldn't our tax dollars pay for choices that are still regulated by the same entities that other public schools are?
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
53. My kids attend a charter school - a VERY good one.
It was formed because the Los Altos School district decided to close down ALL the elementary schools in Los Altos Hills (a seperate city in the same school district) and force all the students into schools that were sometimes 20+ minutes away. The parents were upset and formed a charter school - Los Altos school district keeps fighting them, and gave them the worst space possible....

The school has art, music, drama, field trips abroad (Costa Rica this year, and stellar teachers who make above the standard pay for the area.

Not all charter schools are whacked out... some are started by parents who are disgusted with their districts policies.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
60. whatever the slant on the story was
attacking the reporter pisses me off
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. LAPD is asking for witnesses..
Apparently, the reporter is the only one who's spoken out.

www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=184372&src=0

He was able to "fend off" his attacker--who only got the tape, not his equipment.

Let's follow the story as witnesses come forth...

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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. hmm.....
maybe there's more to this than i thought
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