Gen. Pace: Wait for probe of Iraq deaths

[leftchick]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060529/ap_on_go_co/marines_iraq_investigations

WASHINGTON - The chairman of the military's Joint Chiefs of Staff said Monday "it would be premature for me to judge" the outcome of a Pentagon investigation into the killing of as many as a dozen Iraqi civilians by Marines.

But at the same time, Marine Gen. Peter Pace said he believes its critically important to make the point that if certain service members are responsible for an atrocity there, they "have not performed their duty the way that 99.9 percent of their fellow Marines have."

Interviewed on CBS's "The Early Show" as the nation observed Memorial Day honoring men and women lost in war, Pace pledged that "we'll get to the bottom of the investigation and take the appropriate action."

Pace's interview came a day after Rep. John Murtha (news, bio, voting record), a decorated Marine war veteran and prominent critic of Iraq policy, said the incident could undermine U.S. efforts there more than the Abu Ghraib prison scandal did.

[Missy M]

1. The question is...

will the Pentagon whitewash the atrocities.

[pooja]

9. here's the bigger question

Why are we sending people into 3 tours of duty? Mental stress and anxiety are at an all time high even in the first tour. Could this have been avoided completely? Most likely if the men had been at home seeking mental health counciling.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. Mr. Medals shor looked purdy in dem blacks and gold.

I was surprised that he wasn't tilting to the left with all those non-combat ribbons he wore.
The last time I saw anything close to that was when Leonid Brezhnev gave himself so many medals for creating so many succcessful 5 yr plans.

On the other hand, perhaps Pace gets an award every time he successfully defends a Rummy policy decision.

[UpInArms]

3. I'm certain there is a cell at the Hague for General Pace -

as he, too, is responsible for these atrocities.

HE, AS A COMMANDING GENERAL, IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTIONS ON THE GROUND.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. Not in Rummie's DOD. responsibility flows down, not up.

like a toilet

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raydawg1234]

8. Just want to clarify something................

These soldiers weren't crazy before Iraq, Iraq MADE THEM CRAZY!!!!

Just like how there weren't any terrorists in Iraq before we came there, and now there are.


Imagine if on your moring commute you had to worry about IED's. How would your mental health hold up?

I'm not condoning the troops behavior, but this atrocity is the product of a fucked up war.

[Astrad]

10. I agree

I was only mocking the 'few bad apples' bullshit that is trotted out every time to explain these kinds of events. War makes these events inevitable and therefore the war is the problem not the 'bad apples'.

[atreides1]

12. I respectfully disagree

Something was already there, whether it was their upbringing or the patriotic clap trap that the Marines especially are known for, or the disregard that most Americans have for people that are not like them, the monster was below the surface.

We all have a dark side that for most of us is kept under control, but the dark side of these men was allowed to come out and became the monsters in uniform who gunned down women and children and unarmed men. We have seen this monster before, does anyone remember the Marine who shot and killed a wounded insurgent, and nothing was done. Even some here at DU defended what he did, how about the attack on the wedding party in western Iraq, or the taking of hostages, and let's not forget Abu Ghraib.

All that happened here was an escalation of things that have been occurring since this began. They were not made crazy by Iraq, they were on there way already. What they failed to do is to control that darkness in their souls, and allowed it control them instead.

[FloridaPat]

5. They'll do the same thing they did with the Abu Ghraib trials - slap

wrists. Look at Mai Lai. One person convicted of war crimes and murder. 4 million dead citizens in Vietnam and only one person accountable. Iraq has been like this for 3 years. Afghanistan for 4 years. If there is karma in the universe, the silence of our gov't and most of the population would have us at the bottom of the dung heap. Funny how the repubs are trying to get us there all by themselves.

[smaug]

6. Navy and Marine philosophy on command responsibility

The man at the top of the chain of command in a unit is the one who gets all the credit when something goes right, and all the blame when something goes wrong. Since this is a pretty much local incident (I'm just speaking of the Haditha incident), the battalion commander, company commander, and platoon leader will (or should, if the old rules of conduct for Navy/Marines are still in place) be directly under Article 32 consideration (military equivalent of a grand jury proceeding). Of course, knowing the Darth Cheney/BUSHEVIK administration, only the field snuffies will be in the dock. BTW, this is a death penalty offense for any military. And, there will be a tremendous amount of pressure put on to whitewash the issue; remember Calley and My Lai?

I had a commanding officer whose career was ended when one of the junior officers (officer of the deck at sea) bumped an unmapped sand bar with a destroyer; caused minor damage to the sonar dome, but even though the captain wasn't on the bridge at the time, he paid the penalty.

The coverup is interesting; who is responsible for it ? Just from the bits and pieces we've been able to see, it appears that a bunch of officers are involved in the coverup - this would have to be from the company level (Marine captain - O3) to at least a vice commander at Central Command, especially if standard contact reports were filed. Since those would have been falsified from company level on up, figuring out who knew what and when will take a while; since this happened in November, many of those in the chain of command would have to be implicit in the coverup after the fact; which in moral terms (not Fundie Xtian, of course! /snark) makes them as guilty as the actual murderers.

This is simply murder; there will be mitigating circumstances (such as if any of the murderers suffer from PSTD or other emotional/mental disorders as a result of service), but if America is to be held up to any human standard of decency, we will have a trial of not just the actual perpetrators of this horrific event, but of their officers. Officers, being appointed 'gentlemen' by the Resident in Thief, are responsible for all actions taken in their area of command.

Now, it has been nearly 30 years since I was in the Navy (wow, I'm gettin' old) but this should be the process. The wheels of military jurisprudence move about as slowly as federal court (except Article 15 hearings - which are minor) so it will be a couple of years for resolution. Like I've said here, the process will be revealing. I wager very few officers above the company level will be implicated.

[Raydawg1234]

7. what do they expect when they put soldiers under the constant

threat of attack day by day by day. That wears on you. It happened in Vietnam, and now its hapenning in Iraq.

[RebelOne]

11. What do they mean by a dozen?

First it was reported as 30, then 24. Now a dozen?

[americanstranger]

13. It looks like they're only counting the women and children now.

The Pentagon has narrowed its investigation into allegations that U.S. Marines killed 24 civilians, including 11 women and children, in the Iraqi city of Haditha last November. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5428479)

My guess is that they'll just label the men who were killed as 'enemy combatants' or 'terrorists.' Conveniently, they're no around to say otherwise.

No wonder these guys 'don't do body counts' - they obviously suck at it.

-as