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NYT/AP: Murtha: New Scandal Worse Than Abu Ghraib

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:17 AM
Original message
NYT/AP: Murtha: New Scandal Worse Than Abu Ghraib
Murtha: New Scandal Worse Than Abu Ghraib
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 28, 2006

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The fallout from the killing of as many as two dozen Iraqi civilians by Marines could undermine U.S. efforts in Iraq more than the Abu Ghraib prison scandal did, a lawmaker who is a prominent war critic said Sunday.

The shootings last November at Haditha, a city in the Anbar province of western Iraq that has been plagued by insurgents, were covered up, said Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa.

''Who covered it up, why did they cover it up, why did they wait so long?'' Murtha said on ''This Week'' on ABC. ''We don't know how far it goes. It goes right up the chain of command.''

A bomb rocked a military convoy on Nov. 19, killing a Marine. Marines then shot and killed unarmed civilians in a taxi at the scene and went into two homes and shot other people, according to Murtha, who has been briefed by officials....

***

"I will not excuse murder, and this is what happened," Murtha said. "This investigation should have been over two or three weeks afterward and it should have been made public and people should have been held responsible for it."...

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Marines-Iraq-Inve...
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Other reports coming in
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. Chris Floyds has a Flash presentation
here:
http://www.chris-floyd.com/isahaqi /
But it is very, very hard to watch.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. and the 'independent' U.S. media wanted and wants no part of it
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. Time.com has a article on this story...The Shame of Haditha
Edited on Sun May-28-06 11:21 AM by Fluffdaddy
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Two sets of photos
It's just a matter of time until even those who pay little attention to the war will have the visual aids they seem to need.-

snip>
Investigators have also discovered a second, more damning set of photos, taken by Marines of the Kilo Company immediately after the shootings. The source says it isn't clear if these photos were held back from the after-action report or were personal snapshots taken by the Marines. The source says a Marine e-mailed at least one photo to a friend in the U.S.
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Apparently the cover-up worked until groups outside the military generated
enough publicity and found the right people in the military to get an inquiry going.

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. has anyone seen *previous* pics of soldier kills? i have...
Edited on Sun May-28-06 12:15 PM by nashville_brook
the "spirit" of the pics i have seen seems to be whoo-ha -- bragging. not that that's the spirit this soldier snapped the photo...

but here's the thing... "our guys" are out there in conditions that are breeding chaos. and by "our guys" i mean OUR RESPONSIBILITY. they don't have the resources or leadership to carry out their ill-defined mission.

the answer is NOT more money. we're already bleeding our country to death. a partial answer is to ELIMINATE THE WAR PROFIT. our soldiers shouldn't have to COMPETE with elite halliburton/KBR MERCENARIES. we should be paying taxes for war profiteering.

this behavior is predictable. it's a shame. it's disgusting. but it's completely predictable.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
57. Exactly right
on all counts. These "guys" are our responsibility. And the financial cost of this war will go a long way in showing the people what a true disaster it's been from beginning to end.

It's a timeless thing. Some "warrior king" takes the throne, spends boatloads of money in conquest to expand his holdings and eventually, the people, who preciously cheered their great warrior, refuse to send their men and treasure off to a war so the king and his court can grow fatter.

I think we are stuck in an evolutionary rut.

Julie
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. My respect for Rep. Murtha grows. He's again drawing attention to
this war, as sad as the Haditha massacre is, and in so many ways.
The masses should see Baghdad E.R., and they also need to listen to Murtha.
The truth can be sadly refreshing. Wouldn't it be great if someone who
can do something about ending this war was listening?
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. What I noticed right off the bat
Is how, right in the very first paragraph, the AP writer says "a lawmaker who is a prominent war critic..."

It's almost like the AP is instantly trying to discredit Rep. Murtha's comments, by writing him off as just another one of those crazy, liberal war critics who hates our freedom.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it. But I see no need for them to mention in the first paragraph that Rep. Murtha is a critic of the war.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. They could just as easily mentioned his consistent support of the military
or his seat on appropriations or his early support for the war. I didn't even notice it, but the AP's mention of him as a war critic was dismissive and gratuitous.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. That's exactly right!
They could have mentioned all those things, but did not.

Which really makes you wonder what their whole point was in noting that he is a war critic.

It really bothers me that the Republicans have been so successful in cultivating this atmosphere where, if you are a "war critic," then you are unpatriotic and you are providing aide and comfort to the enemy.

Amazing.



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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. He's pretty famous for being the most well known critic
I don't think its a bad thing, and I do think you are probably reading too much into it. The AP just told the truth. You added all the commentary. Remember that we live in a different country now - one where 70-80% of the public IS a war critic! You have to remember that. No one reads "an outspoken war critic" and goes "Oh my god how dare someone do that! That's unpatriotic." Nope, they think, "good."


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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Actually
We do still have people in this country, the true Bush believers, who still think that dissent in a time of war is unpatriotic.

For example, remember the story that came out a few weeks ago, that said the military was forcing mentally ill troops (including troops who attempted suicide) back into combat.

I posted that article on my blog and talked about it.

And one of our friends on the right left a comment on my blog and said Osama bin Laden wanted to thank me for my post. That basically I must be in bed because I would have the NERVE to talk about the military forcing mentally ill troops into combat. (You can read the exchange here: http://progressiveminds.bloghi.com/2006/05/13/mentally-... ).

You are correct though, in that Rep. Murtha has a reputation as a very vocal critic of the war. Which, in my opinion, is all the more reason why they didn't need to point that in the first paragraph of the article. We know that already. And so the point I was trying to make, is that I think it was an attempt on the part of the AP to immediately discred him.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. The AP is slanting the story--as does every main stream media outlet
The media has a bais in favor of the president. Unfortunately many people come away from the news with a specific belief that is not accurate. Some media outlets are worse than others, but all are faxed the right-wing talking points, and we have heard stories about the e-mails and faxes from the administration to media harassing them for a story that does not favor them.

I disagree with you that the AP "just told the truth." If they were just telling the truth they would have been less biased in the choice of "truth" they told. And as you know lying by omission is still lying.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Give (or let them take) more rope, they are hanging themselves
The cause and effect seems to be more in effect everyday. Just can't wait for the kool-aid drinking clique to start rendering up victims as an offering to some temple. Throwing people into a burning fire pit has already been done so it only makes sense they will try again. All in the name of and on the behalf of Christians for Jesus of course.

The MSM (corporate scribes) will go along with what ever the high priests of the kool-aid clique give them to report. Have you not be following along with the ever-so worn out story line :shrug:


The twist with ropes is not new, but the parallels of with living in denial have never been seen on this scale as of late.... :woohoo:Go MSM, Go MSM go, Yee hah :woohoo:
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Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
53. You're just seeing what you want to see.
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Or, they could have mentioned his service.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. Exactly and they CONTROL the MSM why couldn't the
Edited on Sun May-28-06 03:46 PM by pokercat999
description of Murtha read "Former Marine and leading Democratic supporter of the military"............
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
45. Or that he is a decorated Marine veteran.
He, more than most people, has the moral authority to comment on the behavior of Marines in Iraq.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. Slightly OT,
but were all the Abu Graib photos and videos ever released?
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. No.
Still waiting.
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pennylane100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. I believe all theose photos are on Salon
I could be wrong about that its worth a try.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Thanks, but Salon is not available to everyone.
I think the Pentagon used the excuse that since Salon had them, they were already public, and therefore, need not be released.

...

Thanks in part to that additional sourcing, "The Abu Ghraib Files" sheds new light on the 3-year-old prison abuse scandal. While many of the 279 photos have been previously released, until this point no one has been able to authenticate this number of images from the prison, or to provide the Army's own documentation of what they reveal. This is the Army's forensic report of what happened at the prison: dates, times, places, cameras and, in some though not all cases, identities of the detainees and soldiers involved in the abuse...

http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/introdu... /

There are a lot of people who watch television news who will never see these photographs. Therefore, they don't exist. The old question: If that's true, why didn't I see it on the news?

Welcome to DU. :hi:
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dmoded Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. thanks, i think =)
wow, i had never seen the full set of pics in it's entirety and even now i couldn't look at all of them. absolutely sickening. what makes me think half of these "captured insurgents" are merely simple men/women who are taken into prison out of pure paranoia?

i dont think this was an isolated incident at all. the saying "its only illegal if you get caught" must apply here. i am not rushing to judgement but if one is to say that it was pure chance this happened on one occasion only would be simply naive. my heart goes out to them.

these poor soldiers didn't know what they were getting into. Now if the country was under imminent attack (hmm anybody remember the whole "Imminent threat" phrase? then there would certainly be a reason to enlist and be proud to serve.

now they are under conditions now which have no real focus they are merely a presence, occupying an area which they truly don't belong in. under unbearable heat, underequipped, fellow soldiers being blown up by IED's killing their morale.

this is just wrong, so wrong i can't comprehend. the troops are out there in a lost cause. they didn't know what they were getting into and are stuck in limbo, causing massive stress and ultimately the killing of innocent civilians.

how will this end is beyond me, but i hope peacefully.

-dm
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
50. Only some--and not the worst ones we have heard about. (eom)
Edited on Mon May-29-06 01:47 AM by tblue37
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. The cover-up is looking extensive already
Maybe this time senior officers will pay.

snip>Another point of dispute is whether some houses were destroyed by fire or by airstrikes. Some Iraqis reported that the Marines burned houses in the area of the attack, but two people familiar with the case, including Hackett, the lawyer, said warplanes conducted airstrikes, dropping 500-pound bombs on more than one house.

That is significant for any possible court-martial proceedings, because it would indicate that senior commanders, who must approve such strikes and who would also use aircraft to assess their effects, were paying attention to events in Haditha that day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. i watched him this morning and it seemed
Steph ..couldn't get him off soon enough..it was like he got a producers call in his ear..cut..get him off...it was an abrupt ending of his interview i thought...

but Murtha is an incredible man...he said no one has supported the troops more than himself...

he is obviously very dismayed about this...he is heartbroken i would say...


as we all should be...

fly
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. I gained big time respect for Jack Murtha today
Edited on Sun May-28-06 11:36 AM by Fluffdaddy

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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. Sorry, but, my father warned me about US troops,
Edited on Sun May-28-06 11:54 AM by Ghost Dog
based on his (British Eighth Army) experiences (as a motorcycle dispatch rider in North Africa, Persia, Italy) alongside (eventually) your guys during the second world war.

...So none of this comes as a surprise to me.

More respect, he said, he learned to feel towards the ordinary German soldier opposing him: A Professional who (usually) behaved impeccably honorably according to the laws of war (the Italians were something else, he said, but that's a different story (with a wry smile)).

Anyone else?

(ed: My father used to tell some of his war stories; had his scrapes; saw some very bad things; and was captured a couple of times (and escaped)).
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. "Anyone else" want to join you in trashing all US troops?
Is that what you're asking? If you're interested in anecdotal evidence, remember that glass houses are brittle.
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thank You
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fun n serious Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. I think they trashed themsleves. nt
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Use the "alert" button
There's been a lot of soldier-bashing posts here, and I'm still trying to catch up to them with the "alert".
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. I would like to sincerely apologise for any offense given, or taken.
Edited on Sun May-28-06 03:02 PM by Ghost Dog
But, with respect, (trash _all_ US troops, certainly not: trash _all_ stateside culture even less so).

However, the fact is, there is a certain "trigger-happy" reputation (and not only "at war": at home, too, isn't that true?).

...and I did say "ordinary" soldier, "usually".

Of course all war, as it escalates, leads to this kind of real evil. And of course we (intelligent, history-aware) Brits have to take into account our extremely dirty hands (but most are taught not to think about it)...

So, Please accept my sincere (my intention is constructive) apologies, again. :hi:
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. And, may I add, we eventually come to rely on the USA
(we foreigners), thanks to _your_ freedom of thought and expression,

to learn the truth.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. All people are taught not to think about the travesties their people
have committed and, if they are not taught, it is quite natural to try not to think of them, anyway. Human beings are the most inhumane animals on the planet without regard for race, creed, nationality or religious affiliation. What they can do to each other by dehumanizing each other, (which, by the way, starts much the same way you have just tried to dehumanize the American soldier), is very much unthinkable.

There is no excuse for the behavior of these Marines in Haditha, but they are by no means the first and only warriors in the history of warfare to go beserk. It is because of their nature that they committed these crimes, not their nationality. (Although, I will concede, had their nation, my nation, not committed the attrocity of making war in the first place, this surely would have never taken place, but that is not what I am talking about here.)
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Thank you very much, Miss Chybil. I agree with you completely, except
(and even here I agree): "It is because of their nature that they committed these crimes, not their nationality." ---> BUT, it is surely the job of these mens' officers to at least attempt to prevent them from going berserk.

Will the officers (and their (especially their _political_, _administration_ superiors)) be required to answer for these crimes? (And same applies to Abu Ghraib...).

...

By contrast, many, I find, of the best of my countrymen and women accepted, and have accepted since these many last years, our guilt. In large part thanks especially to the beautifully-expressed writing of our Indian and Pakistani (amongst other), I hope I may be even so allowed to say: deeply-wronged Brothers and Sisters.

...

I guess I'd better drop it, or they'll throw me off this board (though, really, I'm trying to help).
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. (I just maybe "humanised" the "ordinary" WWII German soldier, also)... eom
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Kber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #44
58. My grandfather was a guard in a camp for German prisoners of war
and he would agree with you about the humanity of the "ordinary" German soldier.

At the time, he already knew that his 6 brothers, 5 sisters, their spouses, children and in-laws had been murdered in Poland, but he couldn't bring himself to blame the men (and later in the war, the old men and boys) he saw in the prison camp.

He was picked for his job because the Yiddish he spoke was very close to German, and someone thought it would be a good idea if the guards spoke the same language as their charges.

By 1944, he had already come to see the ordinary Germans as victims of the same war / madman as was his family. Until recently, he even kept in contact with some of the men he had met there.

He also, btw, had great respect for not only the British troops he met (not many, admittedly) but for the Americans he met from all over the country. He came here as an immigrant and never left NYC until he joined the army, but the experience deepened his love for his adopted land in unexpected ways.

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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Thank you very much, Kber.
These, sadly, are the kind of ties that deepen, over time.

May I offer to you this (comment)?:


April is the cruelest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
Winter kept us warm, covering
Earth in forgetful snow, feeding
A little life with dried tubers.
Summer surprised us, coming over the Starnbergersee
With a shower of rain; we stopped in the colonnade,
And went on in sunlight, into the Hofgarten,
And drank coffee, and talked for an hour.
Bin gar keine Russin, stamm' aus Litauen, echt deutsch.
And when we were children, staying at the arch-duke's,
My cousin's, he took me out on a sled,
And I was frightened. He said, Marie,
Marie, hold on tight. And down we went.
In the mountains, there you feel free.
I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter.
What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
A heap of broken images, where the sun beats,
And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.


(from T.S. Eliot: From the Wasteland)

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. S'allright
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. No need to apologize. War is what it is. It's not your fault. Some soldier
soldiers will crack under the pressure and I think that's got to be expected.

But the real culprits will never be punished: The neo-cons who put these kids in harm's way for their greed and ego.

Of course most troops will serve with professionalism under circumstances that we cannot ever understand or imagine. And some will snap. It's nothing against them. They're doing the best they can. I just wish we'd ask the same of our civilian leaders.
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Johnyawl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. What a crock of shit
Edited on Sun May-28-06 01:59 PM by Johnyawl
the German soldier a ..."Professional who (usually) behaved impeccably honorably according to the laws of war"... ???!!! I'm sure the citizens of Norway, Poland, France, Russia, the Ukraine, Greece and the Balkans would be happy to give you a different opinion. The abuses and atrocities that were committed by the German army - down to the individual soldier level - are well documented.

Perhaps your father would like to comment on the actions of the British soldier in such places as India, Iraq (1920-1932), Kenya, Aden and Malaysia.


on edit: This post is NOT an attempt to defend the actions of those Marines. Like Murtha, this ex-Marine is horrified and sickened that Marines have done this, and I only hope that some higher ups burn along with those individuals that pulled the trigger. But your post was the most ridiculous piece of crap I've read on DU in a hell of a long time.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Well said
:thumbsup:
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh, how awful
Edited on Sun May-28-06 12:18 PM by Marie26
25 people murdered. It was probably just a matter of time until something like this happened in Iraq. What I don't understand is why any updates on this story are coming from Murtha, rather than the US military itself. It certainly seems like the military was trying to hush this up.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. It's ALL murder.
What am I missing? The opening salvos of Shock and Awe were just as murderous. I'm blind to right and wrong when it comes to war. Everything about this war was a crime. So no part of it can be right.

We dropped bombs on a wedding party, killing young children.

And where is the media coverage on the 3000 soldiers who were murdered while US soldiers stood by and watched?

I should stay out of this subject, because I am not like the rest. I do not see anything right about any of this. War is always wrong. Every single aspect of it.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Right. It is all murder. A war of agression is a great crime against
humanity.
Even the killing of insurgents/resisters is a crime.

the only good choice is to leave. NOW. They should be gone in just the amount of time it takes to pack up the guns/military hardware and jump on the aircraft carriers.

And where i disagree with Murtha is that we should come back to the USA, not Kuwait, not anywhere in the Middle East.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
51. It's hard to remember that sometimes.
and it's something we can't ever forget.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
60. You are damn right!..War is simply an extension of politics by other means
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. Similar to My Lai Massacre in Viet Nam?
The longer this war trudges on, the more this war resembles the Viet Nam War.

The government reaction to clear atrocities in this case seems to be the same as that in response to the My Lai Massacre --so obviously, we have people in charge who are either ignorant of past history or just don't give a damn.

Moral authority cannot be restored by covering up crimes and silencing those who attempt to rein in the criminals acting on our country's behalf.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
62. Your sentiment is appreciated...
... many of us knew this was Viet Nam all over again. From the trumped-up charges to the outright lies, we knew we were heading into another quagmire of death and destruction. It was like a train wreck in slow motion; we screamed and waved our arms, and tried to point out the truth, but it all fell on deaf ears and blind eyes.

And now we're doing it all over again, just 35-40 years later...
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. Worse Than Abu Gharaib?!
Hey righties? You people are truly sick.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
34. Could we have a full investigation and (if necessary) a trial
BEFORE anyone starts condemning the Marines tied to this incident?

Sheesh.
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saskatoon Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. BEFORE anyone starts condemning the Marines tied to this incident?
Just out of curiosity CAN you see yourself shooting a 3 year old?
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LivingInTheBubble Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
55. yes lets not be hasty
osama hasn't had a full trial and investigation yet either. Or hitler for that matter. Should we all be quiet little sheep and be silent while atrocities are carried out.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. What the heck are you doing here?
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
37. murtha is right
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
39. Nice to see a conservative be forthright about this madness.
So, whe's that other rightwinger, Lieberman, going to speak out on this outrage?

Oh, he supports the war. Never mind.

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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
46. No one seemed to care much about Abu Gharib.
We shall see if the on going murder of innocent women and children causes even a ripple in the American conscience, which may not even exist any more.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-29-06 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
52. And if they bombed them, it would have been "collateral damage"
Murder is only okay with bombs, not guns.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
59. A Cover-Up!....No you don't say...Not Bush and Company!
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
61. Question ~ A friend told me that Bush can never be tried for War Crimes

because the Congress never officially declared us to be "AT WAR."

He said that this is only a "War on Terrorists."

Please tell me that is not true because I want to see him at the Hague with all his Crime Family.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-31-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. didn't bushco get a law passed that US would invade Holland/the Hague
Edited on Wed May-31-06 01:08 AM by bobbieinok
if any US soldiers or officials were charged at the War Crimes Court????? ..... this was very early in 1st term

like (I think) many, I had not seen anything about this .... and then there was a post on DU about how upset the Dutch were

edited to add a source

http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/mtarchive/001312.html

March 13, 2003

US to Invade The Netherlands

According to Human Rights Watch, in order to protect US soldiers from being brought to justice for any war crimes they may commit, Bush has signed (well, last August) a new law that

... authorizes the use of military force to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court, which is located in The Hague.

Since the Hague (or "den Haag" as those beastly Dutch refer to it) is in the Netherlands, this has stirred up some consternation. Dutch blogger and future enemy soldier, Niek Hockx, has blogged about this amusingly.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-31-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. I am speechless! nt
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