Killer at 12, Tate returns to prison for 30 years

[Scurrilous]

A Florida teenager, one of the youngest people to serve a life sentence until his conviction was overturned, returned to prison Thursday for 30 years for a probation violation.

<snip>

"It was the latest twist in a legal saga that began with the death of a 6-year-old girl.

Lionel Tate, now 19, was 12 when he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the 1999 beating death of Tiffany Eunick. His lawyers claimed at the time that Tate was imitating a pro wrestling move he had seen on television while rough-housing with a playmate.

His murder conviction was overturned by an appeals court in 2004 after the panel found it wasn't clear whether Tate understood the charges. He was freed from prison under a deal in which he pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and was sentenced to 10 years' probation.

Under the latest charge, Tate had faced between 10 and 30 years in prison for violating his probation by having a gun and allegedly robbing a pizza delivery man last year."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/18/lionel.tate.ap/

[DS1]

1. That's quite the probation violation

If it was something like being tipsy at a bar, I'd go :wtf:

But armed robbery? Notsomuch

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. This is a kid who needs help, not prison

It is one of the saddest stories. My heart just aches for him and for his family and the family of the little girl he killed.

Somebody dropped the ball here.

[slackmaster]

3. He may be beyond help

Which is unfortunate.

Either way, for the safety of the public he needs to be in prison until he gets help.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. No one is beyond help

[LostinVA]

20. I don't think I can agree with you on this, P2B

I honestly think the man is a sociopath, and can't be rehab. I think, from everything I';ve read about the case, he murdered the little girl in cold blood.... but, I my heart does ache for all involved.

[pitohui]

26. sorry who cares abt this kid? i'll admit i don't

even if you believe the crap abt killing the girl because he was pretending to be a wrestling pro that doesn't explain picking up a gun and sticking it in somebody's face

i guess this is where my compassion fatigue kicks in because at this point i just don't see the value of this person being back in society, he belongs locked away

[DemVet]

27. Yeah, he had so few chances....

...in the system. :eyes:

[LeftHander]

4. Teens that grow up in prision are productive members of society...

Rehabilitaion is very succesful with minors in prison.

:sarcasm:

Culture of punishment.

[jojo54]

5. My daughter did a college paper on kids in jail and Tate was

of special interest to her. Her research revealed that this kid was inundated with this faux wrestling crap with no adult intervention on the danger of inexperienced people practicing it. In fact, there was hardly any adult intervention at all.

Kids have to be taught right and wrong, but if that's lacking in their young lives, then how can we expect them to know when that real gun is not pretend or when to not throw that pencil at another child's face etc.?

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. That is not surprising about the wrestling

I am an elementary teacher and kids his age were really into wrestling when they were in elem school around 10 years ago. We had to be very careful about what activities they were involved in at recess and at one point we even banned wrestling t-shirts.

I am so glad that fad is apparently gone now.

[GeorgiaDem69]

7. He was likely scarred by his encounters with the

Florida penal system at such a young age. Not surprising that he committed another crime.

[Bigmack]

8. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome?....

The prison systems are full of them. Not only can't tell the difference between right and wrong.... can't learn the difference between right and wrong.

What the hell do you do with a person with organic brain damage who is a danger to society? Answer: Put them in with other brain damaged people and add a few psychopaths.

Or kill them... we apparently like to do that, too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. I wondered that too

He has that look that FAS kids have.

[SteppingRazor]

10. The hell with Lionel Tate

I live down here in South Florida, so I've followed this fairly closely over the years. When the sentencing first went down, I was as aghast as many of the people who have posted on this thread. I felt vindicated when that sentence was reduced. But after his multiple probabtion violations, especially this latest, he's been given every chance possible. He belongs in jail before he kills somebody else.

[anotherdrew]

11. I'm just so sick of this...

what the hell is wrong with this and others like him? How is it that they have completely failed to learn not to commit crimes? How? Why? Did no one ever tell him? I'm sick and tired of giving a damn frankly. If he can't act like a civilized human being why should he be treated as such? At some point a line must be drawn and civilization defended against a class of people who seem to think it's OK to act like primitive barbarians.

Look I do care, I wish he could get this "help" he needs. I just can't conceive of what that would be or who would provide it.

[colorado_ufo]

12. Agree.

Many years ago a 14 year old neighbor boy tried to seduce (thank God, unsuccessfully!) my seven year old daughter. She told me about it, and one of the hardest things I ever had to do was tell my husband (her father) as well as this boy's mother. As we were somewhat aware of the home situation, my husband and I agreed that therapy was the best course for this young man, and we pressed no charges. He completed the therapy, and several years later wound up in prison anyway.

You do what you can, but unless a person is of substantially low intelligence, by the time he or she reaches late teens they should have some rudimentary concept of what will bring consequences in this society.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Maybe we should just institutionalize them at birth

Oh wait, we already tried that. . .

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. He is very obviously not playing with a full deck

Too bad his family, his schools, the criminal justice system and society failed him.

[McCamy Taylor]

13. Another child turned violent in his very early years by a messed up

society. At this point he is being incarcerated to protect the public safety. However, we really need to do something to bring up children right. The question of fetal alcohol syndrome is an excellent one. Did mom get prenatal care? Did she smoke? How was his birth? Infancy? Mild brain damage could add to his behavior problems. Did he get early childhood attention, supervision? Was he parked in front of a TV? Did he get bullied by older children? Adults? Did anyone teach him self esteem and self respect? Was he taught to affirm his own emotions, including sorrow and grief? Or was he taught to act out all his emotions through violence?

At age 12 to practice wrestling moves on a much smaller child was an obvious sign of dysfunction. He did not have a normal urge to protect those smaller and weaker than himself. That suggests that when he was small and weak he was not protected.

Unfortunately, it looks like no one bothered to get him intensive counseling in the 7 years grace period he got. Or maybe it was just too late. Maybe there was too much damage from what had already been done.

So, he gets locked up to keep the public health safe at a much higher cost than the preventive dollars for health care and early childhood intervention would have cost. And somewhere out there are a whole bunch of young people just like him.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Best post in this thread

Glad to see you get it.

[noonwitch]

21. Excellent post, and I wonder about brain damage with this kid, too

I agree that society has to be protected from him at this point, and he needs to go to prison.

That said, I do think that people with head injuries and brain damage do have compromised social judgement, and aren't always sure of what is right and what is wrong. I've seen it so much working in children's services-it doesn't always end in criminal behavior. A lot of young women who are affected with brain injuries end up being promiscuous, having lots of kids with different fathers, and end up in the welfare system because the fathers never pay the child support and the mother never got an education or learned a trade, because her learning difficulties were never properly indentified and treated.

Or it results in a career of petty crime, in which they get caught for misdemeanor after misdemeanor, for things like shoplifting.

If you are born with FAS, and the woman who gave birth to you raises you, you don't have much of a chance, do you?

[superconnected]

22. At this point he needs to be locked up.

Plenty of people come from terrible backgrounds. Most do not kill people. Most do not end up armed robbers.

People overcome their backgrounds every day.

This little f*up obviously needed extra work that society failed to give him. Instead he likely got abusive or simply not present parents, and a drug culture without many people to look up to.

BUT, with his back ground, he should have figured out by now that crime isn't the answer.

This guy is a parasite on society. Society helped create him but they are not 100 percent responsible. He must have known robbing a place is wrong, regardless of the culture he is in. Blame budget cuts etc. but ultimately he is responsible for the moves he makes. He chose armed robbery.

btw, I don't feel he's any worse than the rich parasites running this country. They chose murder and robbery too. And they had the money for psychologists.

Background figures in and does shape character but it's not everything. The same backgrounds can shape someone else into being someone that won't rob people.

[saigon68]

14. This is San Quentin

Unfortunately many in society end up in places like this.

[toopers]

19. What do you mean?

Free waterfront living! Free food! What more could you ask for?

[pinniped]

23. Someone should have told him that he was given a second chance....

and don't fuck up.

What the hell has he been doing since being released? I mean, besides terrorizing pizza dudes.

The article doesn't say whether he was employed, a student, or whatever.

[slackmaster]

24. "Since his release in 1999, Tate has had numerous run-ins with the law"

The article does say that.

One would hope that at least once during those run-ins SOMEONE would have thought to suggest that he not fuck up.

[michreject]

28. Isn't his mother a cop?

I believe she is a highway patrolman. (gender neutral description:) )

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. Last I heard he was going to school to become a chef

[slackmaster]

29. Then he can get a job in prison as a chef

The knives will be tethered so he won't be able to smuggle them out of the kitchen.