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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 08:57 PM
Original message
Rumsfeld personally supervised torture, says Human Rights Watch
Rumsfeld personally supervised torture, says Human Rights Watch

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=14e2949c0884ff3a

Human Rights Watch says it believes U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld could be criminally liable for the torture of a detainee at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002 and 2003.

The universally respected international organization was commenting on an Army Inspector General's report which contains a sworn statement by Lt. Gen. Randall M. Schmidt that implicates Secretary Rumsfeld.

The report, obtained by Salon.com, was based on an investigation that was carried out in early 2005, and included two interviews with Rumsfeld. In the report Gen. Schmidt describes the defense secretary as being "personally involved" in the interrogation of detainee Mohammad al-Qahtani.

Human Rights Watch has urged the U.S. to name a special prosecutor to investigate the culpability of Rumsfeld and others in the al-Qahtani case.

"The question at this point is not whether Secretary Rumsfeld should resign, it's whether he should be indicted," said Joanne Mariner, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program director at Human Rights Watch. "General Schmidt's sworn statement suggests that Rumsfeld may have been perfectly aware of the abuses inflicted on al-Qahtani."
more...

We've known all along there are some sicko bastards in Congress and WhiteHouse and this confirms it...
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. You bet he did -
the dynamite part of this article is that he could be criminally liable.

Maybe that's why they're hanging onto him?
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. What a delightful "thing" the US has become
I wonder if Herr Rumsfeld actually did the torturing himself, or simply sat in the same room masturbating while someone else did it.

These guys are really sick, and remind me daily of the perversions of the Nazi Gestapo. If the bush torture gulags are ever overrun, what will they find? Will it be like Auschwitz with mass graves of bodies shot in the back or tortured to death? Will there actually be any survivors to find?


View of a section of the barbed-wire fence and barracks at Auschwitz at the time of the liberation of the camp. Auschwitz, Poland, January 1945.
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. More on the Al-Qahtani interrogation here.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hey, Rummy . . .



The Palace of Peace
The Hague
Home of the International Criminal Court

Photo from the Dossier Nederland (The Netherlands)

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. How long can Insane men rule this country?
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 04:28 AM by 0007

Hiding behind the flag, hiding behind the Christian Church, hiding behind the military.
The Hague is to good for the crime cabal that runs this country.


Schmidt describes the defense secretary as being "personally involved" in the interrogation of detainee Mohammad al-Qahtani.

Human Rights Watch has urged the U.S. to name a special prosecutor to investigate the culpability of Rumsfeld and others in the al-Qahtani case.

Human Rights Watch says it believes Secretary Rumsfeld, Gen. Geoffrey Miller, a senior commander at Guantanamo in 2002 and early 2003, and the interrogators who took part in the interrogations could be criminally liable under federal or military criminal law for torture, assaults and sexual abuse.

From main article







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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. As long as they own the voting machines nt
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. As long as the opposition is run by quislings. (nt)
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
46. And as long as women continue 'supporting' Men...whether troops, or Govt
personnel, or Contractors...that "support"/(approval) will forever encourage it to occur.

You can NOT separate a man from his actions..."support" the man, but NOT his actions. As long as Men are raised by Women...adored by them, married, and sleep with Men who do such things...considering it a victory, "trophy" to impress Women...such horrors will continue ad infinitum.

For it IS (generally) for Women that Men seek to do what they see as "achieving"/"winning"/becoming the Alpha male in order to achieve wealth and "accomplishment" of Female attention.

Men will never quit such things....unless as "Lysistra" taught, Women have the "power" to recognize OUR true power...and work together to change the approval, reinforcement cycle known as War, torture. etc...
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. I agree
As I taught all three of my daughters, who have grown into formidable women, it is WOMEN who have civilized the world. I am not bashing men; however, not many of them will pass up the chance to play with weapons and drive big vehicles in favor of peace. Women must demand a halt to all of this horror.
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
53. For as long as you let them. NT.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. disgusting
but not really surprising considering his personality and public persona.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. i've been a salon subscriber for a long time, by habit mostly
their coverage of the torture scandal has been pretty good.
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lostexpectation Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. how does salon do it
their australian arn't they? fabolus reportage on many topics
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3waygeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. No, Salon is based
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Mohammed al Qahtani who is he???
"But the young Saudi prisoner who wouldnt talk was not just any detainee. He was Mohammed al-Qahtani, a follower of Osama bin Ladens and the man believed by many to be the so-called 20th hijacker. He had tried to enter the U.S. in August 2001, allegedly to take part in the Sept. 11 attacks. But while Mohammed Atta, the eventual leader of the hijackers, was waiting outside in the Orlando, Fla., airport parking lot, al-Qahtani was detained insideand then deportedby an alert immigration officer who didnt buy his story."

I wonder after all that torture what in the world they really got...

I just don't believe in torture...
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spag68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. information
The answer is NOTHING.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thats what I thought!!! Torture doesn't achieve anything...
I can't believe the cruelty... I know Rumsfeld would say but Osama killed Americans ... but thats not a excuse.... or he was trying to protect America... All he did is make himself a war criminal...

Rumsfeld is an old man ... he's not afraid of jail or death
it haunts him every step he walks... He's sick with power...
Abu Ghahib and Guatanomo and there is no doubt our military helped him....... What responibility does a military soldier have in a crime of torture when his commander orders it... They have responsibility also....... The Military has walked hand in hand with Bush... its time to take a stand guys...
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. What are you, some kind of moral absolutists?!?!
:sarcasm:

I swear one of the biggest hypocrisies is how the rightwingers blame liberals for being "moral relativists" and then they turn around and condone torture "in certain circumstances".
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Wait... I thought they were pinning the "20th hijacker" label
on ole Zaccharias?
It gets so confusing.
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mallard Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. Re: remember it's all about 'saving lives'
"I wonder after all that torture what in the world they really got..."


If the guy was really the 20th 9/11 hijacker then he belongs in trail court, not the stalag. A lot of us would like to hear what he has to say.

How do they know Atta was waiting outside - was someone watching this happen?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Torture is more effective at altering memories than extracting them whole
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 07:12 AM by leveymg
Of course, a lot of us would like to hear what he has to say. He won't speak in open court until certain details in his recollection have changed. If he wanted to preserve his memories intact, Rummy would have ordered that he NOT be tortured.

GOOGLE: "Artichoke Ewing Cameron psychic driving" Also, see: "Yuri Nosenko"; "MKULTRA"

Of course, someone was watching Atta; but, that's not the source for this information.
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Blaq Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. Knowing this guy, he probably master****ed
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. Recommended so that many more might see it.
It doesn't get much more evil than this. (I hope to God.)
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. recommended
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-16-06 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kicked & Nominated!
This HAS to get on the 1st page!!!!!!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. When Bush says he wants to keep Rumsfeld after all that is
disclosed... doesn't it say Darth Maul Rummy's master is Emperor Bush...

Bush implicates himself by standing by him after these Generals say he is an idiot...
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
36. King GW is ordained by divine right & Rummy's his divine right hand man
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. My gut clenched
and i felt like i was going to be sick when i read this post. I still feel light headed and dizzy. All of them need to be in prison. Most of all so they can't spend the money they have made doing this sick stuff. I still might faint.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. Watch this
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paul_fromatlanta Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
20. Just read 83 pages... how do they get doctors to participate?
There were medical people involved on at least every other page.
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
22. He did more than supervise torture - he recommended it...
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Hi Peter Frank. I have tried to access your link
in this thread and the original. Every single time (6 or 7 now)it shuts my browser, firefox. Is there another place to view it? Looked for it at ICH and wasn't sure what to look for exactly.

Thanks!
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
27. Indict
and send all of them to The Hague
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
28. Indict! That freak!
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
29. Indict him. Try him. Sentence him.
The wheels of justice turn slowly, but one day, yes, one fine day . . .
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
30. Izzybeans reports "In all likelihood Rumsfield set in the corner of
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 08:46 AM by izzybeans
the detention cell masturbating to the abuse of prisoners."

snip-

"His personal involvement was quite intimate to say the least."

snip- "General Myers was reported to claim that Donald Rumsfield had never forced him into an awkward position. So he was not sure where the problem was. Rumsfield never intimidated him into doing anything. Myers is a cooperative partner in these sessions. Consequently, they've enjoyed many a long walks on the beaches of Guantanamo after their 'intimate torture sessions'".
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
31. Let's keep it kicked, People!
This NEEDS to be on the front page!

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
32. But wait,
I thought this was just a few "bad apples."
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. It's a forest of "Bad Apples" n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. Welcome to DU, BigD! It must be very crowded in that barrel.
:hi:
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
33. Wouldn't Rummy look good in a Nazi uniform?
I wonder if he experimented on twins?
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. ...
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Oh. My. God!
He's a Nazi reincarnate!!!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
34. Rumsfeld didn't stop Guatanomo until he got caught at it in
Abu Ghahib and Bush should have fired him then

Should have and could have but didn't

so it makes look like Bush & Cheney condoned it

so they criminally responsible too!!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Have they stopped? We have no evidence that they have.
And Rummy used Torquemada Gonzalez to find a "rationale" for the "policy". So, we know to a certainty that Bush and Darth went to that party, too.

They are all filthy.
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
35. as someone on DU wrote earlier: Rummy's the Secretary of S&M
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AbbyR Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
37. I didn't' believe I could hate these people more
I guess I was wrong.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
38. Well of course he did! Rummy is a ghoul.
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 01:48 PM by Rex
Pain and human suffering are right up his alley. I bet he eats at least 8 babies a week...alive!


"I eat babies Senator...so what. By golly they taste great!"
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. bttft
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
44. The path to redepemption is to bind them over to the Hague
Edited on Mon Apr-17-06 03:09 PM by pat_k
Bush, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, John Yoo and other high-officials conspired to violate, and are continuing to violate, Title 18 section 2441. War crimes.

Insider reports and analysis of information in the public domain demonstrate their intention to circumvent and violate both U.S. Code and international law. We know all we need to know to act.

For example, Alberto Mora, outgoing general counsel of the United States Navy, documented the roles played by Donald Rumsfeld, David Addington, Paul Wolfowitz, William Haynes, John Yoo and others in implementing a policy that sanctioned and promoted the torture of detainees -- a blantant violation of American principle, U.S. Code, and international law. Mora submitted his chronological account to Vice Admiral Albert Church (who led a Pentagon investigation into abuses at the U.S. detention facility at Guantnamo Bay, Cuba) on July 7, 2004.

For a discussion and summary of Jane Mayer's report on Mora's memo, see The criminally insane fascist fantasies of John Yoo.

Through actions and words, parties to the crimes acknowledge their consciousness of guilt. They look for cover in their fantastical "theory" of a dictatorial "unitary executive" in America, but their words and actions make it crystal clear that they do not expect those fantasies to hold.

Although we have adopted the relevant international laws in the Federal Criminal Code under Title 18 section 2441, violations of international law should be answered in the International Court of Justice at the Hague. Perhaps the only way for the nation to redeem itself in the eyes of the world is to reserve prosecution of these crimes until such time as the suspects can be turned over to that court.

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onecent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
45. This is downright disgusting and alarming... I hate this administration
why don't the people in America get upset and ...just PLAIN GET UPSET????

Apathetic bastards.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
49. Probably hooked up the jumper cables to the balls himself
Busheviks at the highest levels are monsters, plain and simple.

They must be stopped before they can finish their War on Americans.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
51. Rumsfeld is a psychopath. If he ever went to a shrink, the shrink
would call the men in the white coats halfway through the first hour of psychoanalysis and have him locked up as a danger to society.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-17-06 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
52. Reuters: Rumsfeld Potentially Liable for Torture
U.S.: Rumsfeld Potentially Liable for Torture
14 Apr 2006 22:23:19 GMT

Source: Human Rights Watch

(New York, April 14, 2006) Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld could be criminally liable for the torture of a detainee at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002 and early 2003, Human Rights Watch said today. A December 20, 2005 Army Inspector General's report, obtained by Salon.com this week, contains a sworn statement by Lt. Gen. Randall M. Schmidt that implicates Secretary Rumsfeld in the abuse of detainee Mohammad al-Qahtani. Based on an investigation that he carried out in early 2005, which included two interviews with Rumsfeld, Gen. Schmidt describes the defense secretary as being "personally involved" in al-Qahtani's interrogation.

Human Rights Watch urges the United States to name a special prosecutor to investigate the culpability of Rumsfeld and others in the al-Qahtani case.

"The question at this point is not whether Secretary Rumsfeld should resign, it's whether he should be indicted," said Joanne Mariner, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program director at Human Rights Watch. "General Schmidt's sworn statement suggests that Rumsfeld may have been perfectly aware of the abuses inflicted on al-Qahtani."

Gen. Schmidt said that Secretary Rumsfeld was "talking weekly" with Gen. Miller about the al-Qahtani interrogation, and that the secretary of defense was "personally involved in the interrogation of one person." Schmidt's statement indicates that Rumsfeld maintained a high level of knowledge of and supervision over al-Qahtani's treatment. Although Schmidt said that he believed that Rumsfeld did not specifically order the more abusive methods used in the al-Qahtani interrogation, he concluded that Rumsfeld's policies facilitated the abuse.
(snip/...)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/d4e77d346f...
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