NYT: Third Retired General Wants Rumsfeld Out

[DeepModem Mom]

Third Retired General Wants Rumsfeld Out
By THOM SHANKER
Published: April 10, 2006

WASHINGTON, April 9 — The three-star Marine Corps general who was the military's top operations officer before the invasion of Iraq expressed regret, in an essay published Sunday, that he did not more energetically question those who had ordered the nation to war. He also urged active-duty officers to speak out now if they had doubts about the war.

Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold, who retired in late 2002, also called for replacing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and "many others unwilling to fundamentally change their approach." He is the third retired senior officer in recent weeks to demand that Mr. Rumsfeld step down.

In the essay, in this week's issue of Time magazine, General Newbold wrote, "I now regret that I did not more openly challenge those who were determined to invade a country whose actions were peripheral to the real threat — Al Qaeda."

The decision to invade Iraq, he wrote, "was done with a casualness and swagger that are the special province of those who have never had to execute these missions — or bury the results."

Though some active-duty officers will say in private that they disagree with Mr. Rumsfeld's handling of Iraq, none have spoken out publicly. They attribute their silence to respect for civilian control of the military, as set in the Constitution — but some also say they know it would be professional suicide to speak up....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/10/world/middleeast/10military.html

[boobooday]

1. The military has sworn to uphold the constitution

It's good to see that some of them (many, I hope!) still take that oath seriously.

The fact that their commander-in-chief is seeking to destroy the constitution puts them in a bad position. Speaking out, like this general, is the right thing to do. I respect and admire him for that, and thank him for his patriotism!

:patriot:

[Canuckistanian]

2. Not good news for Bushco..

The miltary (retired, at least) are deserting this sinking ship at an astounding rate.

Imagine what the active duty brass are thinking...

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

3. So, in other words,

their own jobs are more valuable to them than the lives of all those innocent people horribly murdered...

"— but some also say they know it would be professional suicide to speak up...."

[Dhalgren]

5. Dead on! They know what is the right thing to do; they know

what upholding the Constitution means; but they stay quiet - don't rock the boat - so as to protect their "careers". Traitors...

[blackhorse]

11. Prior to major ...

committment of U.S. units to Vietnam, the Chief of Staff of the army, General Harold K. Johnson, verbally warned LBJ no less than three times that major U.S. involvement in the RVN would be a grave mistake. LBJ ignored the advice.

Sadly, General Johnson did not loudly and publicly resign his commission at that point. It might have alerted the nation that they were entering into an ill-advised war.

BH

[Vidar]

17. Macarthur issued the same warning from hi deathbed.

[Fozzledick]

37. Our best generals have already resigned rather than obey illegal orders

Our second-rate generals have already resigned rather than take Rumsfeld's abuse.

Our third-rate generals have already resigned rather than get themselves bogged down in an unwinable quagmire.

All we've got left are the brown-nosing careerists who'll do anything, no matter how criminal or degrading, to keep their jobs, and it seems they're reaching the limit of what THEY are willing to take.

It's just a good thing that we're not facing any real military threats right now, because b*sh and rummy have destroyed the ability of our military to function.

[rodeodance]

4. keep this sort of stuff coming.

[LynnTheDem]

6. "never had to execute these missions — or bury the results."

So many people dead. So fucking many.

"One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as
a commander-in-chief. If I have a chance to invade, if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it."
-george w bush, 1991.

[CottonBear]

22. The vrb tenses in that quote are telling (and mixed up).

Bush already knew (i.e. he had already been told by the PNACers) back in 1991 that he'd be selected and that he would invade Iraq.

[arewenotdemo]

24. Incredible, isn't it?

One wonders what % of Murkans know of this quote.

And his use of the term "capital" in this context makes my head swim...

[reichstag911]

7. It's good that they're speaking up now,...

...I guess, but couldn't these careerist pieces of shit have said something before Bush's exercise in mass murder commenced? As stated elsewhere in this thread, the military's sworn obligation is to protect and defend the Constitution, not the President, and an affirmative obligation not to obey illegal orders. This administration has wiped its ass with the Constitution and has issued seemingly nothing but illegal orders. Some heroes...not!

[IndianaGreen]

9. They are having the same pangs of conscience that Hitler's generals had

perhaps they will decide to get rid of our Fuehrer as the German generals tried, but failed to do.

[newspeak]

20. Some of Hitler's Generals

saw that Hitler's actions were those of a madman who did not have his country's interest at heart. I'm sure some in the German military saw an ever growing threat to their families, but most of all, to their country. They saw the complete destruction of their country. Hitler was going to do things his way, even though, he was told that concentrating military energy on more than one front would dilute the power of the military; thus causing a breakdown on all fronts. Hitler at least had seen the horrors of war in WWI. Trench war fare, chemical (mustard gas) war fare and hand-to-hand fighting. However, in WWI civilians were not targeted as they were in WWII. When the gloves came off on woman and children and whole cities were destroyed, especially England and Germany, war became a whole different ball game. I bet it was depressingly difficult to see your country go down in flames because of a vision of a group of maniacal power drunk sociopaths. Countries that have not seen their cities destroyed, their families murdered, their families split among ideological lines are more apt to repeat said historical lessons. Since the Civil War, families fighting against families, the US has not truly suffered the misfortunes that befell Europe during WWI and WWII. True, our sons and daughters have fought on foreign soil, but we truly have not seen the terrible impact of whole cities being destroyed and our families slaughtered on American soil (Pearl Harbor is exception). Because of it, many have become insulated in their thinking. War is not a video game--it is messy--a true experience of abject pain, suffering, desolation. Many in this country need a healthy dose of empathy and a few lessons in history.

[LynnTheDem]

25. Many did;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x883174

[IndianaGreen]

8. The decision to invade Iraq was done with "casualness and swagger"

Who does that reminds us of?

[saigon68]

13. Its a Cowboy Mentality, to ride into town, and shoot up the Saloon

Make the natives dance in the streets as you shoot bullets at their feet

[newspeak]

21. yeah, well the "neon" cowboy

can't ride into town because he's afeared of horses, doncha know? So what kind of cowboy is he? I mean he couldn't even play a cowboy on TV cause he's afeared of those gosh darned creatures. Even Ronnie loved his horses. :rofl:

[saigon68]

27. The mother fucker rode in on his atv

No horses for the CHIMPANZEE

[The Wizard]

28. Horse milking

If you recall, Laura made some reference to equine activities that Bushigula engaged in at the Press Corp dinner last year. Something about milking a male horse rings a bell.
Our President is a nut.

[saigon68]

38. I do recall that

[IndianaGreen]

10. Here is the actual article from TIME: Why Iraq Was a Mistake

The NY Times quotes the article by General Newbold. Here is the actual article:

Why Iraq Was a Mistake

A military insider sounds off against the war and the "zealots" who pushed it
By LIEUT. GENERAL GREG NEWBOLD (RET.)

In 1971, the rock group The Who released the antiwar anthem Won't Get Fooled Again. To most in my generation, the song conveyed a sense of betrayal by the nation's leaders, who had led our country into a costly and unnecessary war in Vietnam. To those of us who were truly counterculture--who became career members of the military during those rough times--the song conveyed a very different message. To us, its lyrics evoked a feeling that we must never again stand by quietly while those ignorant of and casual about war lead us into another one and then mismanage the conduct of it. Never again, we thought, would our military's senior leaders remain silent as American troops were marched off to an ill-considered engagement. It's 35 years later, and the judgment is in: the Who had it wrong. We have been fooled again.

From 2000 until October 2002, I was a Marine Corps lieutenant general and director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. After 9/11, I was a witness and therefore a party to the actions that led us to the invasion of Iraq--an unnecessary war. Inside the military family, I made no secret of my view that the zealots' rationale for war made no sense. And I think I was outspoken enough to make those senior to me uncomfortable. But I now regret that I did not more openly challenge those who were determined to invade a country whose actions were peripheral to the real threat--al-Qaeda. I retired from the military four months before the invasion, in part because of my opposition to those who had used 9/11's tragedy to hijack our security policy. Until now, I have resisted speaking out in public. I've been silent long enough.

I am driven to action now by the missteps and misjudgments of the White House and the Pentagon, and by my many painful visits to our military hospitals. In those places, I have been both inspired and shaken by the broken bodies but unbroken spirits of soldiers, Marines and corpsmen returning from this war. The cost of flawed leadership continues to be paid in blood. The willingness of our forces to shoulder such a load should make it a sacred obligation for civilian and military leaders to get our defense policy right. They must be absolutely sure that the commitment is for a cause as honorable as the sacrifice.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1181629,00.html

[DeepModem Mom]

12. Thank you, IndianaGreen!

[drm604]

14. K&R

:kick:

[x-g.o.p.er]

15. Sorry, but why didn't you say something BEFORE

the goddamn invasion? And then you wait until retirement to speak up?

I understand that he couldn't speak out publicly against the President while still in uniform, but as the Ops Officer of the Marine Corps, he could have spoke up to his superiors, and then possibly resigned in protest if he felt that strongly about it.

Sounds a lot like that jackass Bob McNamara. Fucks up Vietnam, gets over 50,000 killed, then writes a book and says "I was wrong."

[The Wizard]

29. MacNamara, Rummy, both jerkoffs

MacNamara said they knew it was a lost cause in 67. Thanks Bob. Many of us still suffer from the effects of your misguided war plan. Several years ago we had a President from Texas who took office under unusual circumstances and then started a war predicated on lies. Some things never change. At least back then they didn't have an anti-gay Administration having gay prostitutes, posing as reporters, sleeping over at the White House and most likely sticking you know what you know where when the sun went down. It's the hypocrisy, the hubris and disregard for the American people that makes the bastards so reprehensible.
At least I can say with certainty I served in Vietnam when my country called. Who in this Administration didn't cut and run when called to defend that "God damned piece of paper" known as the Constitution?
Our President is a nut.

[Hoping4Change]

36. Welcome to DU.

Glad you're here.:hi:

[Scriptor Ignotus]

16. more info on Newbold

http://www.potomacinstitute.org/aboutus/staff/newbold.htm

LtGen Gregory S. Newbold, USMC (Ret), Executive Vice President

Lieutenant General Gregory S. Newbold came to the Institute from an assignment as the Director of Operations (J3) of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He has served in that role since October 10, 2000.

Lieutenant General Newbold is the son of a career U.S. Air Force Officer. After his commissioning as a second lieutenant in 1970 he attended The Basic School in Quantico, VA, where he was designated an infantry officer. Lieutenant General Newbold's assignments have included Fleet Marine Force tours in the 1st, 2d, and 3d Marine Divisions, with the 4th Marine Expeditionary Brigade, and with I Marine Expeditionary Force. He has commanded infantry units at the platoon, company, and battalion level, and also served at different times as executive officer, operations officer, and logistics officer in a variety of operational units. While Lieutenant General Newbold commanded the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, this force was in the vanguard of the U.S. commitment for Operation RESTORE HOPE in Somalia. Prior to reporting to his current assignment, he served as Commanding General, First Marine Division.

Lieutenant General Newbold has served tours outside the Fleet Marine Force as tactics instructor at The Basic School, officer assignment officer at Headquarters Marine Corps, Warfare Policy Planner on the Joint Staff, Military Assistant to the Secretary of the Navy, Head of the Enlisted Assignment Branch at Headquarters Marine Corps, and as the Director, Manpower Plans and Policy Division, Headquarters Marine Corps, Washington, D.C. His professional military education has included attendance at Amphibious Warfare School, the Marine Corps Command and Staff College, and the National War College.

Lieutenant General Newbold's personal awards include the Legion of Merit, Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Meritorious Service Medal, Navy Commendation Medal, Joint Commendation Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, and the Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal.

[DeepModem Mom]

18. Thank you, Scriptor Ignotus -- and welcome to DU!

[Scriptor Ignotus]

19. thanks!

[coalition_unwilling]

23. Once a jarhead . . . You know, the article says this guy

retired in 2002. It is now 2006 and he's just now getting around to speaking out about RumDum? Give me a frigging break! 30 million people marched worldwide against the impending invasion\occupation on Feb. 15, 2003. (I count myself proud to have been among them.) What did we know then that he's only now just finding out?

This guy should not be getting any kind of major kudos, imho, but maybe I'm just grouchy today.

[Jawja]

31. Perhaps they are speaking out

now because they see an even crazier attack on Iran on the horizon?

Better LATE than never.

[coalition_unwilling]

33. I suppose so, but the guy doesn't deserve a medal for

his timeliness

[niallmac]

39. Exactly! Appreciate his essay but no medals from me.

Years too late and thousands of live lost latter; sitting in his barca lounger sifting thru medals and memories the general muses:
"Oh yeah. I have just got to write that LTTE."

[madmark]

26. im guess im glad for the admissions now, but where the fuck were

these professionals in the run up to this disaster when these observations ("I now regret that I did not more openly challenge those who were determined to invade a country whose actions were peripheral to the real threat — Al Qaeda") were obvious to, and being made by, amateurs, like me, and could have mattered if expressed by these professionals before we jumped off the cliff into this pile of shit. I mean it was obvious to any unimpaired thinker; Iraq had been weakened by a long war with Iran, devastated by a short violent war and bombing campaign in Desert Storm, and weakened for years by a low intensity air conflict and bombings and crushing economic sanctions. Any nation under those conditions could not do a damn thing to threaten the world's superpower and it couldnt have been more obvious to anyone (like I said, im an amateur and this was all immediatly self evident to me when Shithead (bush) first publicly signaled that he was going to strike Iraq in the 2002 State of the Union). Meanwhile our real enemies, Al Quada Bush in case its hard for you to keep track, continue to operate and plot. It makes me sick.

[Time for change]

30. Now that retired Generals are saying things like this

We need some active Generals to start talking.

This is great news!

[iconoclastNYC]

32. If this was the Clinton administration

It'd be the top news on all the talking head shows....and the spin would be that Clinton is being irresponsible and allowing his nominee to destroy the military.

How can there be any doubt that the mainstream media is protecting this criminal adminisration?

[cassiepriam]

34. The military voted these idiots in.....they can only blame themselves.

[Adelante]

35. Make that *4th retired general*

Monday :: September 29, 2003
Wesley Clark: Would Fire Rumsfeld

Wesley Clark told a college audience in New Hampshire Friday that he'd relieve Rumsfeld of his command. Others (Dean, Kerry) have called on Rumsfeld to resign, but this is the first we've seen that a major candidate would give Rumsfeld the boot.

Gen. Wesley Clark, told a New Hampshire audience Friday night he had only fired one person in his life. On Saturday he said he wanted to fire a second person: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

When asked at a house party on the Seacoast about what he would do in Iraq if elected president today, he was met with applause when he said, "First of all I would change the Secretary of Defense. Then I would go to the commanders of the ground and go to Iraq myself personally and I would develop an exit strategy that gives us a success and lets us downsize our commitment there."

Besides Rumsfeld, Clark also criticized Bush's National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice for her views of the world and then U.S. House Majority Leader Tom Delay, also a Republican, for his vote on a measure involving Kosovo.

In Washington Saturday, Clark said Americans are embarrassed by Bush.

Speaking after an event in Washington at the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation's annual conference, Clark, 58, told reporters that the American people are "really embarrassed" by the administration's leadership.

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/003860.html