U.S. Unprepared for Iraq Order Collapse-Wolfowitz

[Nambe]

LOS ANGELES (Reuters)

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said the United States was unprepared for the collapse of law and order in post war Iraq and the subsequent difficulties there, the Los Angeles Times said on Friday.

Wolfowitz, a leading architect of the war in Iraq, told the paper that no amount of advance planning could have foreseen the collapse in law and order after the U.S. and British military victory.

"The so-called forces of law and order (in Baghdad) just kind of collapsed. There is not a single plan that would have dealt with that," Wolfowitz was quoted as telling the newspaper.---

Privatize bush It’s a Good Thing

[trumad]

1. Gee Wolfie...Go fucking figure!

You shouldn't have started this pre-emptive, unnecessary war in the first place you Straussian, PNAC fucker!

[Robin Hood]

49. Don't hold back Trumad.

Tell em how you really feel.

No shit, What did you think was going to happen? You arm chair general wimp. How about you put on a flack jacket and go patrol Baghdad at 2:00am? Fucking asshole, go fuck yourslef and die, you murderer!!

[Resistance]

51. but hey now

Israel is going to get that oil pipeline flowing out of Iraq in good time, so I'm sure as Democrats we should all be thrilled.

[nixonwasbetterthanW]

2. ah, the "victim of our own success" argument

Marvelous spin

"No amount of advance planning could have foreseen the collapse in law and order."

Wasn't this predicted by scores of people, on both sides of the issue? Doesn't this happen as a matter of course when a dictatorship is swept aside?

[TahitiNut]

12. Absofuckinglutely.

There's no question that this was foreseen. None whatsoever. When an invading army treats uniformed military, paramilitary, and all "regime forces" (i.e. government officials) as the 'enemy,' any presumption of continued civil law enforcement of any kind is ridiculous.

Fact: The 'coilition' forces moved immediately to 'secure' the oil fields and key government buildings (their oil ministry, for example) based solely on their expectaions that civil anarchy would threaten the assets coveted by global corporatists. There's no way in hell they weren't foreseeing a breakdown of civil disciplines.

The invading forces deliberately caused it. Who doesn't recall the fact that Busholinis cheered (fomented?) the vandalism of statues and portraits?

[Paschall]

13. When dictators are swept aside...

...and when international humanitarian organizations supplying 60 percent of the population with food are forced to leave prior to bombings.

Of course no one at the Defense Department knew that tens of thousands of Iraqis depended on the oil-for-food program for survival.

[SharonAnn]

42. I thought standard military planning prepared for several options

including "worst-case".

What's that you say? They didn't do standard military planning?

Hmmmm, looks like they don't have an exit strategy either. Maybe they should've let an experienced military person do the planning.

[JNelson6563]

43. no military planning, a different kind of planning

you'll find out more about the plans they did bother to make here:

http://www.yuricareport.com/PoliticalAnalysis/FraudinWhiteHouse.htm

Julie

[short bus president]

45. given that Saddam's regime WAS the law and order in Iraq,

it's tough to comprehend how the PNACers could've failed to realize that collapsing it would, um, cause its collapse.

[sandnsea]

55. And they fired 80,000 cops

If their plan was not to retain any police, how could they not realize there would be no law and order? There's no words to describe these people.

[RandomKoolzip]

3. Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!

Go eat a dick, Wolfowitz! You assholes got us into this, now YOU take responsibility! Jesus what a shithead!

"Not a single plan"??? If your plan was gonna fail the Iraqi people, why the hell did you go ahead with it.....

IMPEACHMENT FOR THE LOT OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!


\

[leftwingnut]

4. ok....so now what's your plan???

fuckin' idiot...

[demgrrrll]

I bet there are some Congressional transcripts available where at least

one person poses questions that address this issue. It is not as though this couldn't have been imagined by anyone prior to the invasion. The lure of oil and money overrode all common sense in this matter. I am disgusted with these people.

[Melinda]

24. Multiple Data/Info sources - here is one of the best on the net

Their online library is extensive - this is truly one of the most comprehensive sites for information on the Iraqi war (including multiple warnings that Wolfowitz now claims no one could prescient enough to have known). Links to Congress, UN, foreign govts, news sources, media appearances academia - a multitude of resources/publications/full transcripts etc:

http://www.academicinfo.net/iraq.html

[gbwarming]

25. Someone like ousted Army chief of staff Shinseki, maybe?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/25/205859.shtml

Thousands More Troops Needed for Iraq
NewsMax Wires
Wednesday, Feb . 26, 2003
WASHINGTON -- Army Chief of Staff Gen. Erik Shinseki told the Senate Armed Services Committee Tuesday that "several hundred thousand soldiers" will be needed both to win a war with Iraq and then maintain control over the country.
"Something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers are probably, you know, a figure that would be required. We're talking about post-hostilities control over a piece of geography that's fairly significant, with the kinds of ethnic tensions that could lead to other problems," Shinseki said during testimony to the committee, in possibly his last appearance before he retires after four years as Army chief.

"It takes a significant ground-force presence to maintain a safe and secure environment, to ensure that people are fed, that water is disturbed, all the normal responsibilities that go along with administering a situation like this," he said.

<snip>

[gbwarming]

26. doh, double post. sorry

dupe deleted

[Maple]

5. Whaaaaaaat?

"no amount of advance planning could have foreseen the collapse in law and order after the U.S. and British military victory."

Everyone on the planet told them what would happen!

[Walt Starr]

6. Let's see, you bomb their buildings, kill key people,...

...destroy their modern infrastructure which was already collapsing due to a trade sanctions, destroy the credibility of anybody who had anything remotely resembling power, opened up their prisons and allowed all of the criminals to escape, stand by with guns while looters are allowed to walk away with anything they wanted,...

AND YOU HAD NO CLUE THERE WOULD BE A LACK OF LAW AND ORDER AFTER THAT?????????

My fucking cat has more sense than you bastards!

[young_at_heart]

7. It was "beyond their control"

I think the message he is sending is that Iraq had to be "saved", no matter what the cost to everyone involved....it's "just one of those things"!

[Paschall]

23. Ari said...

"The cost of leaving Saddam Hussein in power far exceeds the cost of anything that might involve the disarmament and the reconstruction of Iraq." (AFP)

[aquart]

47. Can we see the budget breakdown on that, Ari?

[are_we_united_yet]

61. Ari let me put this gently...

Your an incompetent, sleazy, worthless, unethical political piece of trash.

[The Stranger]

I think we need to consider whether it was actually the plan all along.

And let Madame Defarge continue her quiet knitting . . .

[izzie]

8. Hr should have talked to me. I could have told him that people who...

do not win get mad about it. Heck and I am jusy a real person and nothing special like him. Did anyone else not know that Iraq would be mad about all this?

[spotbird]

There is no limit

fires, a refugee crisis, famine, and the threat of Turkey intervening.”

Well this is just another lie veiled in the truth. Critics did express concern about those issues, no doubt about it, but those weren’t the ONLY issues that worried those opposed to the war. Those hysterical pansy four star Generals also worried that “war light” would eventually lead to no decisive victory and they happened to be correct.

Also the outrageous claim that the choice was invasion or nothing is preposterous, and I’m afraid the public is starting to buy it. If we had hung in there the UN likely would have supported the action or inspectors would have allayed apprehension about WMD.

[Paschall]

9. I hear a gap-toothed echo in the background

"No one could have imagined passenger planes would be used as weapons."

Is that you, Condi?

[TEXASYANKEE]

58. We have a winner!

You took the words right outta my mouth.

[NYC]

60. That's exactly what it sounds like to me.

But, why not? They got away with it the first time. That was over a year ago, and C. Rice is still employed. It was a successful lie, even if nobody believed it.

????? Much of what goes on is too strange to be true.

[Wonder]

70. it seems to me it is unbelievable because IN FACT

it is being paraded right before our eyes WHILE AT THE VERY SAME TIME it is being denied...


so you end up feeling like a character in a warner bros. cartoon who keeps shaking his head back and forth to clear it and rubbing his eyes real hard because he just can't believe what is right before his eyes.

OR

is it that he believes it but it is being denied by everyone around him so he keeps rubbing his eyes because he sees what no one else does.

HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT!!

[JohnyCanuck]

10. I thought that's why you were being paid the big bucks , Wolfie

To figure that sort of stuff out beforehand, asshole. Of course if your entire PNAC philosophy is based on nothing more than a steaming pile of dogshit, it would explain why the consequences of your actions aren't meeting your expectations.

I remember telling my Mom at the start of the invasion that this would quite likely turn out to be like another Viet Nam with Iraqi's picking off the US troops with snipers, land mines and various acts of sabotage. I wasn't the only DUer thinking that way. We didn't have one tenhousandths the intelligence and planning resources this dickhead head, and we didn't have a hard time figuring out what the likely outcome was going to be.

[saigon68]

When one deliberately kicks a bee's nest

BAD THINGS SOMETIMES HAPPEN

--- Marie Lewandowski to her grandson-1952

[DrBB]

11. Considering how many DID PREDICT exactly THAT

...your astonishment is a little hard to figure out, Vulfie. As is the fact that this will be reported perfectly straight and elicit no comment, just like Shrump's comment about Saddam not letting in the inspectors etc etc etc amen.

PFFFFEH!

[Zero Gravitas]

14. DUH!

...no amount of advance planning could have foreseen the collapse in law and order after the U.S. and British military victory.

Un-frickin-believable! What the hell did they think eould happen????
Amazing! The hallmarks of the Bush* regime appear to be arrogance, incompetence and a totaly unwillingness to take responsibility for their own actions (e.g Smirk yesterday not taking ultimate responsibilty for the SOTU yellowcake lie).

[SharonAnn]

44. Well, remember the DiIulio statement about the * administration

not knowing anything about governing? He said something about how there was no policy or plan, just day-by-day actions taken for "political" purposes. No time or effort was spent on investigating, understanding consequences, working out details of anything - and he was talking about domestic policy. Guess they use the same approach for military actions too.

His letter was printed in Esquire last fall

<snip>
"But, as I think Andy Card himself told you in so many words, even allowing for those huge contextual realities, they could stand to find ways of inserting more serious policy fiber into the West Wing diet, and engage much less in on-the-fly policy-making by speech-making."
<snip>
"No, what they needed, I thought then and still do now, was more policy-relevant information, discussion, and deliberation.

In eight months, I heard many, many staff discussions, but not three meaningful, substantive policy discussions. There were no actual policy white papers on domestic issues. There were, truth be told, only a couple of people in the West Wing who worried at all about policy substance and analysis, and they were even more overworked than the stereotypical, non-stop, 20-hour-a-day White House staff. Every modern presidency moves on the fly, but, on social policy and related issues, the lack of even basic policy knowledge, and the only casual interest in knowing more, was somewhat breathtaking—discussions by fairly senior people who meant Medicaid but were talking Medicare; near-instant shifts from discussing any actual policy pros and cons to discussing political communications, media strategy, et cetera. Even quite junior staff would sometimes hear quite senior staff pooh-pooh any need to dig deeper for pertinent information on a given issue. "
<snip>
"This gave rise to what you might call Mayberry Machiavellis—staff, senior and junior, who consistently talked and acted as if the height of political sophistication consisted in reducing every issue to its simplest, black-and-white terms for public consumption, then steering legislative initiatives or policy proposals as far right as possible."

[Rose Siding]

15. Well sheesh, these guys can't read the future...

Except, of course for that one time when they could guarantee us that Saddam would hand over bio/chem and nuclear weapons to Osama who would then enter the US via some Canadian anti-war group with the help of the French!

But that was a one time deal. Let's roll (our eyes)

[truthisfreedom]

17. nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[Wonder]

71. how can they look at history

when as they are repeating it they are shredding it at the very same time??!!

[truthisfreedom]

nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[truthisfreedom]

nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[truthisfreedom]

nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[truthisfreedom]

nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[truthisfreedom]

nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[truthisfreedom]

nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[truthisfreedom]

nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[truthisfreedom]

20. nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[truthisfreedom]

21. nor will they look at history...

so they are doomed to repeat it, and estabilish plausible denials to cover their asses in the tragic aftermath...

[Karenina]

63. I just LOVE that the "bugs" on our site

KEPT REPEATING YOUR POST!!!

[0007]

56. Nancy Raygun

could have told 'em, cuz she read tea leaves and knows how the stars work.

I can understand why wolfie didn't want to bother her, cuz she's busy helping Ronnie with his ABC's.

[Shadder]

16. Gee, now where have we heard something like this before?

Oh yeah, Condi and 9-11.....

[northzax]

18. let's think, shall we?

the 'so-called forces of law and order' in Baghdad and Iraq were the military and the quasi-military police force. Turns out, that when one kills the police force (or frightens them into hiding) that law and order breaks down. gee, to think that the brilliant wolfowitz couldn't figure this out on his own. doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in his new consulting shop, does it?

[DemExpat]

Well, little 'ol me figured that out.....am I a genius, Wolfie?

The arrogance, the hypocrisy......argh....I can't stand it!

:nuke:

DemEx

[DemExpat]

19. Well, little 'ol me figured that out.....am I a genius, Wolfie?

The arrogance, the hypocrisy......argh....I can't stand it!

:nuke:

DemEx

[Cheswick2.0]

22. LAIR LIAR LIAR

they not only anticipated the bedlam, but planned on it to intimidate the locals.

[Melinda]

27. War with Iraq: Costs, Consequences, and Alternatives (12/2002)

http://www.amacad.org/publications/monographs/War_with_Iraq.pdf

[Tigermoose]

28. He's either a liar or a fool --

both are grounds for being removed from office.

[ILeft]

30. He is both a liar and a fool, and plenty more, too........eom

n/t

[Star]

29. Gee, Wolfie, too little, too late, huh?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/complete/la-na-postwar18jul18,1,7035725.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Secretly, they gathered in an auditorium in the nation's snowbound capital — uniformed generals, assistant Cabinet secretaries, war college professors with top security clearance, and senior planners from the Pentagon, the U.S. Central Command and dozens of other federal agencies. snip

The date was Feb. 21. More than 100,000 U.S. and British troops were already poised at Iraq's doorstep. Their battle plan was rehearsed and ready. In fewer than 30 days, the first American tanks would cross the sand berm into Iraq from Kuwait, launching the tip of the spear of what would be a swift and brilliant battlefield victory. snip

Yet this two-day gathering at the Pentagon's National Defense University was the first time all of these planners had gathered under one roof to address an equally vital matter: how to win the peace in Iraq once the war was over.


BTW, be sure to read to the end of the article:

Still, he and other Pentagon officials said, they are studying the lessons of Iraq closely — to ensure that the next U.S. takeover of a foreign country goes more smoothly.

"We're going to get better over time," promised Lawrence Di Rita, a special assistant to Rumsfeld. "We've always thought of post-hostilities as a phase" distinct from combat, he said. "The future of war is that these things are going to be much more of a continuum....

"This is the future for the world we're in at the moment," he said. "We'll get better as we do it more often."

[IkeWarnedUs]

53. From the LA Times article in Star's post #29

<snip>

An ambitious, yearlong State Department planning effort predicted many of the postwar troubles and advised how to resolve them. But the man who oversaw that effort was kept out of Iraq by the Pentagon, and most of his plans were shelved. Meanwhile, Douglas J. Feith, the No. 3 official at the Pentagon, also began postwar planning, in September. But he didn't seek out an overseer to run the country until January.

<snip>

The Joint Chiefs of Staff on the second floor worked closely with the State Department planners, while Feith's Special Plans Office on the third floor went its own way, working with a team from the Central Command under Army Gen. Tommy Franks.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's civilian aides decided that they didn't need or want much help, officials in both departments say.

<snip>

The seeds for planning a postwar Iraq were sown on April 9, 2002, when Afghanistan was still on center stage and an invasion of Iraq was just talk. That was the first meeting of the Future of Iraq project, the brainchild of Thomas S. Warrick, a veteran civil servant in the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs.

<snip>

In October, while Warrick's group worked on its blueprints and the administration pushed its diplomatic efforts at the United Nations, a new Pentagon office headed by Feith was created partly to oversee postwar planning. It operated in secret — even its name, the Special Plans Office, was intended to obscure its purpose, officials said. "The Special Plans Office was called Special Plans because, at the time, calling it Iraqi Planning Office might have undercut our diplomatic efforts," Feith told reporters last month.

<snip>

For months, the Central Command separately had sent progress reports on the war planning to the Pentagon, and for months a list of postwar issues showed up at the bottom of the memo as unresolved "open items," officials said. But Feith and his aides assured Rumsfeld that they had the planning process under control.

Bush gave Rumsfeld overall authority for the postwar plan, to maintain what he called "a unity of concept and a unity of leadership," Feith said. Despite some misgivings, State Department officials said, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell agreed.
--------------------------

This is a really, really great article and I urge you all to read it. I highlighted the paragraphs above (a very small portion of the long article) because I want to point out who Douglas Feith is.

In 1996, Richard Perle and Doug Feith and 5 other researchers were asked to help the new prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. They published a report called "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm." An October 2002 Ha'aretz Daily article talked about the report and how it is reflected in America's current foreign policies.

<snip>

The new partnership drawn up by Perle, Feith and five other researchers, has interests in all sorts of directions in the region.

"Jordan has challenged Syria's regional ambitions recently by suggesting the restoration of the Hashemites in Iraq," the group writes. "Since Iraq's future could affect the strategic balance in the Middle East profoundly, it would be understandable that Israel has an interest in supporting the Hashemites in their efforts to redefine Iraq, including such measures as: visiting Jordan as the first official state visit, even before a visit to the United States, of the new Netanyahu government; supporting King Hussein by providing him with some tangible security measures to protect his regime against Syrian subversion; encouraging - through influence in the U.S. business community - investment in Jordan to shift structurally Jordan's economy away from dependence on Iraq; and diverting Syria's attention by using Lebanese opposition elements to destabilize Syrian control of Lebanon."

The experts advised Netanyahu to pull Turkey into the brew, with diplomatic, military, and operational support for Turkish actions against Syria. They say that "Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq - an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right - as a means of foiling Syria's regional ambitions." One way to do it: "... Securing tribal alliances with Arab tribes that cross into Syrian territory and are hostile to the Syrian ruling elite."

<snip>

At this point the two Jewish experts (Perle and Feith), eventually to become key Pentagon players, are walking a fine line between their loyalty to American governments (including the Reagan administration, in which Perle played a key role) and Israeli interests.

link to Ha'aretz article: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=214635&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=214635

link to Perle and Feith's article, A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, written in June 1996: http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm


PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC

[nolabels]

31. How can that be?

Dick’s road map for stealing Iraq’s oil fields was drawn up way before they even stole the elections in 2k. No one should ever accuse them of short sighted plans.

[damnraddem]

32. No amount of advance planning by PNAC could foresee anything real.

And certainly not achieve any desired result. That was what was shown in Iraq.

But they might have caught on from Afghanistan that just, perhaps something might go wrong with their grand plans.

Adequate planning might have averted many of the problems. Of course, the Bushistas were incapable of doing such planning. Those who ARE capable, the UN, the Germans for that matter, are precisely those the Bushistas have demeaned and from whom they've isolated the U.S.

And don't forget that many of us on here DID foresee what has subsequently happened in Iraq. Maybe Wolfie should have been listening to those 'focus groups.' ;-)

[The Stranger]

35. Don't sell them short.

The plan all along may have been to destroy Iraq, its civilization and its people.

[damnraddem]

33. No amount of advance planning by PNAC could foresee anything real.

And certainly not achieve any desired result. That was what was shown in Iraq.

But they might have caught on from Afghanistan that just, perhaps something might go wrong with their grand plans.

Adequate planning might have averted many of the problems. Of course, the Bushistas were incapable of doing such planning. Those who ARE capable, the UN, the Germans for that matter, are precisely those the Bushistas have demeaned and from whom they've isolated the U.S.

And don't forget that many of us on here, and millions who protested in the streets worldwide, DID foresee what has subsequently happened in Iraq. Maybe Wolfie should have been listening to those 'focus groups.' ;-)

[Sweetpea]

34. Dancing in the Streets

Was the expected reaction but there is no music playing, only more gunfire. The cowboys think the know best for the indians. It is amazing to me to hear conservatives say that over time the Iraqi people will warm up to our intentions. Give the people a piece of ham and a biscuit and they are suppose to forget that you have been responsible for the death of family members.

[SOS]

36. Seems he didn't

read any history books either. The experience of the British in Mesopotamia from 1918 through 1931 is very similar to the current US situation.
Wolfowitz's absurd claim that "no amount of advance planning could have foreseen the collapse in law and order" indicates that he is unfamiliar with all colonial history from the 19th century through today.
To think that someone so utterly incompetent is in a Pentagon leadership position is appalling.

[joanski01]

37. Everything is going according to

plan. They want to starve the Iraqi's into compliance. And they can tell all the lies they want, because the media will take care of spinning or just plain not reporting. Something's just gotta give here. There must be so many people like me who just can't stand this any more. Is it really going to take all of us marching on Washington and throwing them out bodily????

[peacetalksforall]

38. Their lying strategy is.........?

Do they use one of their think tanks to determine the crap rating and what the public will believe?

Do they decide that a lie like his will work for x% of Republicans and that is the most they can hope for?

They never give us credit for using the brains our parents and teachers helped us to develop.

They are either psychopaths or unbelievably stupid to think we are unbelieveably stupid.

[zekeson]

39. Two Things, Wolfie

On my office wall I have a sign from MoveOn.org. It sez, WAR - Inspections Work. War Won't. My understanding of this sign some months ago was that inspections could solve the "crisis" while War could result in needless lost lives and an ongoign quagmire. There was a cry, muted as it was, even from politicians, asking for an exit strategy before you hustled to war. As long as it takes, not a day longer is a meaningless slogan, not an exit strategy.

Next, you've mucked this up. That is done. That should have been recognized weeks ago. So, you've even mucked up the mucking up of this quagmire. Its time to stop pumping oil and time to get involved in the process. Clean up the mess you and your cronies made. Simply noting you did not plan well is not helpful, these are real lives you have placed in jepardy with your ill-advised global domination plan.

[Wonder]

67. what DIPLOMACY?

WHEN WE HAVE ALL THESE MIGHTY WEAPONS TO USE ON PEOPLE WE SAY WE ARE LIBERATING AFTER WE ATTEMPT TO DISARM AS MANY AS WE CAN...

Shit... why bother with passive intervention or DIPLOMACY???

Machismo threats, boycotting of leaders we do not like, and pre-emptive military measures based on false information pulled out of thin air...

NOW THAT MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE TO ME!!

Diplomacy only works between equals. When one feels superior to the other DIPLOMACY will never do.

[9215]

40. Children, veritable children playing

in a playpen. That is the level these *&^()%$ SOBS are on mentally. Wolfies "awwh shucks folks" attitude is decietful and childish. These people really think that the world is a place they can go shit in at any time and have others clean it up ALL THE TIME. It is almost as if they resent all this collateral damage as a result of their piratical antics.

"Goddamn it, you can't even get oil anymore when you need it, without all this other social shit getting in the way, fucking AAArabs..... no respect for law and order!! Where in the hell is Marshall Dillon (Gunsmoke) when you need him?"

I can just hear these bastards whining about all of the problems their little war has brought on. Ann "bony ass" Coulter is saying that the problems are the result of the Left that doesn't want to see the US win in Iraq. Rumsfeld said similar things recently.

How much more of this is the Public going to take?

I hope the UN and all charitable agencies bail out of Iraq and leave it as an example of the Bushista approach to international politics. The rest of the world has been cleaning up after these pre-schoolers too long.

FUCK THEM!! IMPEACH THE WARMONGERING BASTARDS!!

[nolabels]

41. Can't you see the cold calculations these people are making

They want there plans with PNAC to work no matter what. See "Murdoch papers open fire on BBC" in LBN. They are trying to keep a lid on any loose ends unraveling. The process of assimilation and marginalization is done by destabilization and confusion. This shit looks to be going as planed if you ask me. These bastards don't even care if their little monkey gets ousted in the process, the piece of real estate in the heart of ME is all they wanted. The UN doing work in Iraq might even be counter productive for the people over there.

If Iraq had any kind of real government their potential and their oil equities could quickly bail them out of almost all their problems if there was a real free market like these Cons keep on spouting off about. The thing we are all witnessing is actually the greatest armed robbery ever to take place in history.

[joanski01]

50. Totally agreed.

The greatest armed robbery ever to take place in history.

[ewagner]

65. Armed Robbery

Good terminology....with your permission I'll use it often and loudly.

Thanks

[9215]

66. What gets me is how these fascists get to use excuses like: "We didn't

expect this" and the American Press just lets it slide. The double standard with dems doing similar things is glaring. The next fucking time I hear someone criticize a dem I am going to shove Wolfowitz's nonchalantness about a horrible war in their face!

[nolabels]

73. The corporate media are the ones that put them in there,

don't get .... mad, get even. Make them anti up their dues, if you find your government lacking it could possibly that somebody did not do their job in the first place. When somebody lies to me repeatedly I go for the dismiss card, if they do awfull things with the lies, I want to find out why they get away with it. All this stuff going on should be expected from past things they have done. Let me throw this link out, Look close, see any patterns?

(snip)
Los Angeles Independent Media Center

Original article is at http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/11/22725.php
basic stats for US imperialism
by cecil • Sunday November 24, 2002 Sunt 04:18 PM

a reference guide for activists.
Basic Statistics for United States Imperialism
Contents:
1—list of interventions for “regime change”
2—list of air warfare campaigns
3—list of client states
4—list of states held by debt-leverage imperialism
5—list of foreign base hosts
6—list of murder toll
7—list of unsavory rightists supported
8—list of perverted international bodies
9—list of interventions for opposing liberation
10—list of interventions pre-1941
11—list of covert operations
12—list of front organizations
13—list of low intensity conflicts
14—list of proxy wars
15—list of foreign policy doctrines
16—list of propaganda campaigns
Bibliography
Useful Periodicals
Relevant Hyperlinks

1. Chronological list of interventions, with the purpose of effecting “regime change,” attempted or materially supported by the United States—whether primarily by means of overt force (OF), covert operation (CO), or subverted election (SE):
a) OF and SE imply, necessarily, prior and continuing CO.
b) OF = directly applied state terrorism by the United States repressive apparatus i.e. the Departments of War/Defense, Energy, Treasury, and State. N.B. the formation of the National Security Council (1947) and the Office of Homeland Security (2002).
(snip)

[aquart]

46. Anybody think they gave a contract to a friendly florist

To fly in all the flowers that would by needed by the cheering crowds?

[are_we_united_yet]

48. Godamnit Wolf!

Your a Godamn Genius!

[ElementaryPenguin]

52. This people aren't just ruthless thieves - they are stupid fucks!!!

eom

[roguevalley]

54. BS

Every professional in the government told him about this and
they could have prepared.

They could have had the UN resolution and we wouldn't be there
alone.

Amateur. These people had no idea it was a WAR. Not an Ah-nold
movie but a war. What did they EXPECT to happen?!?!?!?!?!

They must go to jail. Now.

[DoYouEverWonder]

57. How come they knew so much before the war?

And now they don't know SHIT???

For someone who was supposed to be such a genius, the Wolfman is proving to the world that he is a major psycho.

[Wonder]

69. Yes I wonder

who wrote the book on WAR?

the whole damn PNAC scheme if not psychopathic seems somewhat sociopathic if you ask me... BRUTE FORCE... with as little real planning as possible. With the exception of those Oil Companies and That part not only well protected but relatively thought out... but for the guerilla warfare... which of course works well into their plan of further demonizing Islam. It becomes easier to justify the heavy Iraqi civilian loses that way.

[MrMonk]

59. There was no way we could have prepared for this.

I mean, it was a dictatorship, fer crisake! We figured they had everything in order: lots of police, trains running on time, all the streets cleaned and public toilets flushed. But look at the place! It's like a bomb went off!

[nolabels]

62. They probably thought they could last throught the storm but........

A lot of people already knew the plan already, and set up camp waiting for it. Many third world countries are living with a lot of the same problems. Honestly if you can’t see them really carring about them people in other countries, why would they care about the people in Iraq. They secured the oil fields they wanted to steal. Everything else is superfluous to them.

Hell they don’t give a rat’s butt about most of the people in the US as far as I can see. I mean what the heck have done for any of us common folks in the last two years. They are going to give some of us rebate checks on taxes. This seems more like loans from the US treasury to me,while its partly defunding the rest of needed services. Have you checked the deficit lately?

How much of the deficit is part of funding to help the military machine overthrow legitimate governments around the world. The overthrow of them governments only helps their corporate cronies fill the campaign coffers in the reciprocate way.

on edit: spelling

[fshrink]

64. We're fully prepared for the collapse of Wolfowitz.

nt

[Dulcinea]

68. Yes, Wolfowitz will probably the one to take the fall for this.

Or at least try to, a la Tenet. Will anyone believe him?

[Wonder]

72. "The so-called forces of law and order (in Baghdad) just kind of collapsed

BUT WE KNEW THIS PRE INVASION. IT WAS CLEAR TO THE MOST LAYMEN OF EYES. WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING...

HOW IN THE WORLD CAN THIS SCHMUCK!! EVEN GET AWAY WITH SAYING THESE WORDS???

but but but but...

here is the real cog in the madness...EXACTLY...the stress expected...

<< "This is a country that was ruled by a gang of terrorist criminals and they're still around. They're threatening Iraqis and killing Americans," he said.>>

THE GANG TERRORIST CRIMINALS. Not bad planning at all. It is as it has always been. Those dastardly gang terrrorists. We gotta get them once and for all we do we do. No responsibility on this schmucks part is needed. WHY? Because surely we can all understand the challenge of getting these mad gang terrrorist criminals. Look how long Israel has taken and they still haven't gotten them yet. CODE IT IS CODE!!