Spying program illegal, Senate committee told

[sabra]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/01/news/nsa.php

Spying program illegal, Senate committee told

WASHINGTON A group of legal specialists told a Senate committee that President George W. Bush's domestic spying program is illegal and may set a precedent that allows wartime presidents to break laws freely in the name of national security.

In its second hearing on the once- secret surveillance program, the Senate Judiciary Committee heard testimony Tuesday from a number of law professors and former officials. Most voiced skepticism of the president's assertion that his wartime powers allow him to bypass the courts and spy on Americans' international calls and e-mail messages without warrants. Bush's legal theory, they said, is both wrong and dangerous.

"This is a defining moment in the constitutional history of the United States," said Bruce Fein, a lawyer who served in the administration of President Ronald Reagan. He said the theory used by the administration "could equally justify mail openings, burglary, torture, or internment camps, all in the name of gathering foreign intelligence. Unless rebuked, it will lie around like a loaded weapon ready to be used by any incumbent who claims an urgent need."

But other specialists disagreed.

In his testimony, Douglas Kmiec, a Pepperdine University law professor who was a Reagan administration lawyer, endorsed the White House's assertion that Bush's power as commander in chief allowed him to set aside the warrant law and eavesdrop on Americans.

[Demeter]

1. And?? And??

Will the other shoe ever drop?

[joeunderdog]

85. Wait a minute...did we actually declare war? Did I miss that?

The War on Terra is always going on, according to *. Sounds like "anything goes"!!! Party on.

[WCGreen]

86. Truly....

In order to be in war time, you have to have a war....

This is such crappola...

And I would be sayng the same if this had been Clinton....

No person is above the Law.....

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. discussion threads here...

CSPAN didn't carry it :mad:
but we managed to find audio/video streams...

thread 1
NOW! Live coverage of Senate Judiciary Hearing on Domestic Surveillance
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x536981

thread 2
#2 -Live coverage of Senate Judiciary Hearing on Domestic Surveillance
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x537595

[liveoaktx]

78. AUDIO/MP3s of the whole thing on CanOFun

If you only listen to one thing, listen to Kyl-it's absurd

[Massachusetts]

3. Spying program illegal, Senate committee told

When are these TREASONOUS BASTARDS going to be held ACCOUNTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hang a left]

4. And how!

"This is a defining moment in the constitutional history of the United States,"

[Mithras61]

5. Someone forgot to tell these guys how it all works...

See, it goes like this...

George: Gonzo, I want to wiretap everyone so I can find out who's plotting against me & can hold my enemioes to account. Is it legal?

Gonzo: Sure, George. You just make sure & let me know ahead of time, so I can write the legal opinion that it is, and then you're covered! If it wasn't legal before, we'll just write an opinion that says it is & you're good to go!

George: Thanks, Gonzo!

See! It's all legal & above board!

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[sabra]

8. who is this being targeted @ ?

[shanti]

33. who knows?

maybe you?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[sabra]

10. HUH?

[Mithras61]

12. Don't worry... he won't be around long...

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[sabra]

15. I guess you are one the 34% sheeple who love the boy king?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[sabra]

19. but but but we caught Saddam! He was behing 9/11 right?!?

"Bin Laden who?"

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[sabra]

22. and brains too.... wow you are the real deal.

[shanti]

45. geez

what's taking the mods so long??

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Richard Steele]

25. Not mine- you might be thinking of this guy:

[leftchick]

34. your butt buddy has a message for you

:rofl:

[CJCRANE]

24. So who's doing business with bin Laden family

and friends?

Not a democrat. Yes its your beloved leader and family.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[Frank Cannon]

31. What happened, did you pass out on your keyboard?

Didn't anyone tell you not to mix Bennies and Old Granddad?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[Mithras61]

35. Looks like he's really foaming now!

:D

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[Richard Steele]

47. He's typing one-handed since I posted that pic of B*sh kissing...

[leftchick]

27. you are right bush is a fuckface traitor

and so are gonzalez, cheney, rice, and her royal cowness laura.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[leftchick]

37. and you suck his

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Frank Cannon]

55. Funny. I don't see you fighting it.

Coward.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[Frank Cannon]

61. Sure you did.

Let me hear about your service, tough guy.

[sabra]

65. play station doesn't count

[negativenihil]

66. What unit? branch? where were you stationed?

Such bullshit.

[Richard Steele]

67. That's a Lie. You, sir, are a liar.

[negativenihil]

60. I'm sure your local recruiter would love to hear from you.

GoArmy.com

[Massachusetts]

80. Exactly!!!

He can PUT UP or SHUT UP!

[meganmonkey]

39. Wow - You're really showing us who's boss!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

How old are you? 13? 14? If you are any older that that, I feel sorry for you.

But if you are just a kid, well, I just hope you find some good role models to help you grow up.

Peace!!!

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[meganmonkey]

48. Bwahahahahaha!!!

Oh, a little fun on a Wednesday morning.

You're a charming little shit, aren't you?!

:rofl:

[leftchick]

46. omg megan this one is on a koolaide IV

:rofl:

[meganmonkey]

50. I needed this today - I'M SERIES!!1!

:rofl: :rofl:

[WePurrsevere]

73. Me too.. I usually miss the fun but caught this one's performance...

which I give 5 thumbs down to. ;)

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[meganmonkey]

54. See, we have something in common!

I'm a smoker too! We're really not that different from each other, man!

Why can't we all just get along?

:patriot:

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[LonelyLRLiberal]

38. Perfectly illustrating the debate style of Freepers

name-calling, because they cannot present a logical statement

[Frank Cannon]

49. I can't believe he's lasted this long

This guy is either:

1) blind drunk
2) 14-years-old
3) profoundly mentally disabled
4) some mixture of all of the above, I suspect

[LonelyLRLiberal]

63. He's GWB

Can't you tell?

[Frank Cannon]

70. He sure sounds like GWB

Maybe that's why he's still posting.

[acmejack]

11. Say something intelligent, please!

[Frank Cannon]

20. Montgomerie? That sounds like a French name to me...

Hmmmmm. You wouldn't happen to be one of them Frenchy traitors, would ya? You got me wonderin' about ya. Why do you hate America so bad?

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

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[Jackpine Radical]

9. Doug Kmiec is a jen-yoo-wyne fascist.

I've heard him on various talk shows over the years & find that he exemplifies the finest in 16th century Spanish Inquisitorial jurisprudence.

[C_U_L8R]

16. Who says Bush can break laws freely !!!???

He should be behind bars. For Good !

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Mithras61]

23. That doesn't even make sense...

In fact it isn't even coherent. If you're going to rant, please at least try to make some sense.

[Frank Cannon]

26. Alcoholism is a terrible thing

If you can't get help at Charter, please, get help somewhere.

[newspeak]

36. commie pinko?

Who's going to tell Ian about the PNAC and Troskyites? Talk to the hand Ian, talk to the hand.:rofl:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

88. Somebody called?

Damn, missed the party.

[meganmonkey]

44. I think it is only about 12 years old

:shrug:

[silvermachine]

62. There's a very Cartmanesque...

...quality to the posts, dontcha think?

[meganmonkey]

69. Well put!

What was this thread about, anyway? :P

[CJCRANE]

30. How old are you?

Maybe you should go away and come back when you've grown up.

[Marie26]

42. Jeez...

You've made my first ever alert email. Congratulations.

[meganmonkey]

52. Noooo!!!

Don't alert! This is too much fun! Let's bat it around a little, you know, relieve some tension!! }(

[Marie26]

72. LOL

Sorry, already done. :( I guess troll-baiting can be a good sport - but this kid's too incoherant & nasty to be much fun, though. Probably not good practice. Hey, he's still here though (surprisingly). Have fun while you can!

[jaxx]

56. LOL so this is a freeper invasion.

First one I've seen. Where's the popcorn?

[Seen the light]

64. Before today, I've reported only about 3 posts ever

Within the past 5 minutes, I reported about 15 I think. :)

[Frank Cannon]

68. I've been hitting the alert too

Morans like this don't usually last more than 5 minutes. Must be an Ash Wednesday thing.

[Marie26]

76. This one lasted 20 minutes!

A new record?

[Frank Cannon]

71. Ah, finally. BYE-BYE!!

Darn, just when we were about to hear about his six years of military service! :eyes:

[Richard Steele]

74. I miss him already...I promised myself I wouldn't cry.......

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Lochloosa]

82. Damn! Go to lunch and miss all the fun..

:cry:

[WePurrsevere]

75. Since "WAR" was never actually declared, how does he figure he has...

"wartime" powers? He truly is leving in some wild fantasy land isn't he? Apparently this delusional behavior is being enabled by others who are either just as delusional or don't give a shit though.

Besides wartime or not... civil rights must always be protected. "...preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" is the OATH that Bush swore to and has broken.

[Frank Cannon]

77. It's "war" when it's convenient for him, and not "war" when it's not

For instance, they're not "war prisoners" and subject to the Geneva Conventions, because they're just "enemy combatants" and it's not really a war. Yet at the same time, he's a "war president" and we have to be careful what we do or say because "we're at war". Yet at the same time, as you say, war has never been declared by Congress.

This guy has us living in some sort of "Schrodinger's cat" state between war and not-war.

And yes, it's insane.

[rodeodance]

79. so when will a Dem stand up and say: STOP NOW!

WASHINGTON A group of legal specialists told a Senate committee that President George W. Bush's domestic spying program is illegal and may set a precedent that allows wartime presidents to break laws freely in the name of national security.

[ClayZ]

81. K and R

Thanks for the links!

:kick:

[AndyA]

83. Note to Freepers:

If your fellow Repugs offer you some punch, PLEASE DRINK IT!

You don't think for yourself, anyway. You believe everything you are told without question. The rest of the world suffers because of your foolishness. And now we have a President who flips off the American people. How nice. How Christian.

Just like the Jim Jones group did, please do the world a favor and

DRINK UP!

[MissMillie]

84. What is the point of making laws if they can be set aside?

I firmly believe that the checks and balances outlined in our constitution were what the framers had in mind. Don't you?

This "time of war" stuff doesn't wash either. Congress has not declared war.

[The Witch]

87. Checks & balances were not intended to be used only when it was EASY

to do so!

[warrens]

89. Pepperdine = Scaife

The far right of the far right gather there.