Google blamed for jump in high-tech pay

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/18/GOOGLESIDE.TMP

When Silicon Valley executives complain about soaring wages for computer engineers, they often blame a single company for their plight: Google Inc.

The Mountain View search engine, they say, has pushed up salaries with its deep pockets and huge appetite for technology workers.

"It's driven up software engineering wages by 50 percent in the past couple years," Reed Hastings, chief executive of Netflix, the online DVD rental firm in Los Gatos, said recently at a conference for the technology industry's lobbying group.

Bill Cobb, who oversees North American operations for San Jose's eBay, chimed in from across the table, saying, "Sounds about right."

Wages for computer programmers in San Francisco have jumped 30 percent between 1999 and 2004, according to the latest figures available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Programmers earned an average salary of $85,840 in 2004, up from $66,270 in 1999.

[Eric J in MN]

1. For every other occupation, newspapers discuss national average wages.

For computer programmers, newspapers separate northern California from the rest of the country, to give a false impression of great pay.

[Nite Owl]

2. They have to be able to afford to

live there. If they didn't pay them well enough they couldn't stay in the area. 85k isn't very high for living in San Fran.

[Hello_Kitty]

3. 'Cause high pay is a bad thing?

I mean gawd forbid highly educated and skilled workers be paid what they're worth! Exhorbitant compensation is for executives only, duh! :eyes:

[ninkasi]

4. Yes, and when compared to CEO pay

these highly educated and skilled workers don't make all that much, really. And unlike the greedy CEOs, they really earn their salaries. Apparently, the prevailing viewpoint is that only the elite deserve to have anything worthwhile, and the rest of us can survive on crumbs from their tables.

[ixion]

7. earn the salary is putting it mildly

we pay for it with blood, sweat and tears, quite literally.

while execs sit in boardrooms spanking the monkey, we hammer away at out keyboards trying to keep up with a gargantuan workload. For example, with the exception of nine-weeks this year, I've had nothing but 12-15 hour days, brought on by nothing more than bad planning. And where does that planning come from? Ah yes, those execs, who make multi-million dollar paychecks, bonuses (last bonus I had was in 2000), and the fabled 'golden parachute', wherein they get millions if they screw up and get fired. :grr:

[cpamomfromtexas]

38. That's why I call Trickle down economics ...

You can have the Crumbs off my table economics.

[Voltaire99]

35. As Hillary would tell you...

...high labor costs are one reason US companies need to outsource!

Think about that in the next primary.

[HughBeaumont]

39. "You can't legislate reality" - another Hillary gem re: offshoring

Hillary clears outsourcing air

Hillary Clinton made it apparent where she stood on outsourcing during her India visit, in an attempt perhaps to clear the Indian misgivings received during the Kerry campaign. "There is no way to legislate against reality. Outsourcing will continue," she told an audience of Indian big-wigs. She pointed out that there were 3 billion people who feel left behind and are trying to attack the modern world in the hope of turning the clock back on globalization. "It is not far-fetched to imagine ... if the Indian miracle would be the one of choice of those who feel left behind," said Hillary.

Hillary has been at the forefront in defending free trade and outsourcing. During the height of the anti-outsourcing backlash in the US last year, she faced considerable flak for defending Indian software giant Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) for opening a center in Buffalo, New York. "We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences," Hillary said firmly, despite inevitably invoking the ire of the anti-free trade brigade.

Hillary further clarified her position during her recent visit as well as solutions that could be beneficial to both countries. She urged Indian industries to invest more in the US to allay negative outpourings over outsourcing of American jobs to India. "I have to be frank. People in my country are losing their jobs and the US policymakers need to address this issue," she said. She ruled out that the anti-India feeling was a reflexive reaction, and explained that the feeling was more because of the imbalance in trade between the two countries, which in turn caused anguish among Americans about the nature of the economic relationship.

"In 2003, US merchandise exports to India was $5 billion, while India exports to the US was $13.8 billion. Though the US understood that the economic vibrancy of India was in its own interest, there are people who feel left behind and might stir up negative feelings against India because they do not understand the economic benefits of outsourcing," Clinton remarked.

Chief reason why I'll NEVER support her DLC ass.

[Matariki]

5. oh the whiny fuckers

lawyers and accountants and probably even plumbers make more than that. they want us computer folks to work 60 hour weeks for pizza and mountain dew. or else they'll outsource to india. piss on them.

[ixion]

8. exactly...

:wtf:

[Peace Patriot]

6. They'll never forgive Google for the democratic way it did its initial

stock offering, spreading the wealth around, and preventing the fatcat brokers from monopolizing large chunks of the stock before anybody else could invest. The war profiteering corporate news monopolies--lapdogs to global corporate predators--tried to kill Google's stock with doomsaying because they wouldn't favor the have's. The doomsaying failed. Google succeeded, spectacularly. Now they're paying their engineers a decent wage. How dare they do everything right!

sfgate (the San Francisco Chronicle) is not to be trusted. They led the foul campaign to get rid of Calif's honest Secretary of State Kevin Shelley (after he sued Diebold and banned the worst of their election theft machines prior to the 2004 election). Tools of the super-rich. Fascists. And a lousy paper, with no intellectual or cultural depth of the kind that makes you sometimes forgive, say, the L.A. Times or the NYT (sometimes). San Francisco is such an amazing place, with the biggest population of leftists in the country. (They vote something like 80% Democratic AND have a lively Green Party!) Rich cultural diversity, with a large segment of artists, intellectuals and business and technology pioneers (not to mention being the most beautiful city on earth). It deserves a better daily newspaper--not this pathetic, anemic rag.

[Moochy]

37. SF Chronicle is RW crap

They are full of self-interested editors who spin, skew and slander at every turn.

As grist for the mill, here's a wonderful chronicle "columnist" whom everyone I'm sure will enjoy:
A self-professed hippie who had a "political transformation" ala hitchens at 911.
Cinnamon Shillwell. Oops I mean Stillwell.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/12/20/cstillwell.DTL

[Pharlo]

9. Supply and demand.

What's wrong with these Silicon Valley executives?

Why are they complaining about the Free Market System?

Are they anti-American?

[NashVegas]

10. Heaven Forbid There Should Be a Competition for LABOR

Competition in human resources has a line and it stops with management, by some philosophies.

Crybabies.

[onehandle]

11. These Jobs are going to India, Malaysia, etc..

When your company's executives start complaining about tech wages, they're planning your professional demise.

Trust me.

[musette_sf]

17. yeah you rite

(as they say in NO)

I was a business analyst for a semiconductor company in Santa Clara in the early aughts. As we all know that industry got hammered by various factors during that time. I made it through 3 RIFs, but went down for the count in the 4th, at the end of 2002, when pickings in the area were very, very scarce.

I turned up okay after several months, but guess what? In September 2004, the company sent all IT functions, save HR-related, to their branch in Malaysia.

[lovuian]

18. I think the tide maybe turning here and Google is briliant to

pay for good workers and they are in the STATES...One of my family is IT and traveled to Malaysia worked with the IT people there...

They aren't even close as competent as American version...They had to pay him to go to check on them... Just to let ya know American CEO's are getting a bit unsettled with these workers overseas... These workers are in so much demand they can walk away and get another job in a snap...where Americans don't have that luxury...

Its a bunch of hocus pocus and Google knows it...

[RamboLiberal]

19. Google is setting up an operation in my hometown of Pittsburgh

CMU is here, and some other nice high-tech education and companies. While everyone else pisses and moans that young people are leaving Pittsburgh, Google said they had a hard time getting people to move from Pittsburgh, so instead they decided to open up an operation here.

Bout time we bring the good paying high-tech jobs back to US! Good for Google!

[madmark]

23. With the exception of the winter, the landscape is beautiful there;

and the real estate is cheap as hell.

[northzax]

30. google runs tech centers

in Beijing and Bangalore. They have no fear of outsourcing, believe me. But what they do have is a: an immense cash flow that lets them avoid outsourcing for now, and b: a recognition that there is a cultural aspect to their work that requires a ground presence in many countries.

[madmark]

25. Something a little different is going on here;

Google is approaching its tech-centric business like its an arms race only the currency is in brains, not arms. Its locking up the brains away from MS, Yahoo and the other major tech companies. That appears to be a consious strategy, and its different than just scrouring the earth for the cheapest brains to get by on. Now, ultimately I don't know how or if they are going to turn this into a competitive advantage, but this approach is going to continue for several years at least until somebody or something takes a bite out of Googles profit or growth.

[nolabels]

33. Brains sometimes require experience

Mostly I don't trust anyone under forty when it comes to complex things in the personal range like medical opinions, automobile repairs, retirement and financial planing or contracting on house construction. I am sure picking out reliable software would be the same for me if I had a choice but old and sound are the antithesis of software today

As for locking up brains it would occur to me the people who think like that are being successful and are using their success to build a larger institution with like minded people. Doing it from a point of fear to protect ones turf doesn't make sense when your trying to encompass the widest group possible to be able to serve. I think they are being like they are because it feels good and much creative juices are flowing which sounds just beautiful to me.

[Centered]

32. Wonder how they would feel if companies...

started hiring CEOs from India :)

[AzDar]

12. Good on Google. n/t

[crikkett]

13. makes sense: google hires PhD's and geniuses

from what I hear. That kind of talent costs.

[gizmo1979]

14. Heaven forbid

anyone besides them from making money!Bravo for the techs!Grab the cash while you still can.

[Rich Hunt]

15. great news

This is a legitimate profession and should be compensated as such.

Let's hope it stays that way.

[Book Lover]

16. Now if only Google would start hiring folks over the age of 30

thne I'd feel better about using them.

[Canuckistanian]

20. What horrible news

Technology workers in demand and expecting bigger slaries? Atrocious.

Someone oughtta pass a law...

[Jim__]

21. Why do we have to blame someone for high pay?

Who do we blame for the high pay of CEOs?

[madmark]

22. "Blamed"; what a word to use. What could be better in a gold

collar economy for labor to have value and be bid up; and this in the face of globalist pressures. Its great news.

[ckramer]

24. I thought that's only for computer programmers who are still

employed...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Pay may be up 50% for engineers in Silicon Valley, but I can testify....

...that pay for software engineers has DROPPED by 40% throughtout the rest of the U. S.

[3waygeek]

27. I'm a SW Engineer in Atlanta

and I'm making the same salary I did back in 1997. I'm damned lucky in that regard -- many of the people I worked with back then have had to leave the profession or take substantial pay cuts.

[Ian David]

28. It should become the duty of every employee to spy on their CEOs & Execs

Think about thousands of potential whistle-blowers for every dirty executive in the bunch.

For every corporate raider that doesn't get busted there are hundreds of secretaries, human resource staffers, janitors and various cubicle-dwellers that had enough dirt on them to ruin them.

Keep your eyes and ears open and keep notes and documents.

Maybe they'll think twice the next time they decide to pull an Enron, Halliburton or WorldCom.

Or the next time they call "Backsies" on their pension plans.

Someone in accounting just might have evidence that the CEO was banging his wife's brother, or embezzling money from stockholders.

[tinrobot]

29. Good.

I'm all for higher salaries for US employees.

At least Google isn't outsourcing to India.

[northzax]

31. er, they are

but they are still hiring everyone in sight. as a poster explains above, it's a strange business model, but they have so much cash that they can basically hire everyone they want, at whatever salaries they want and give them all pet projects to work on, with very little need for return from many of them for a while.

it's dangerous, though, to build one's reputation on such thinge. Google lives and dies by advertising, a downturn in that medium, like the one in 2000 will punish them, and the temptation will be there to contnue to meet market expectations by cutting the only capital cost they have: people. And then the goodwill established with the public can fail quickly. of course, if everyone capable of being a competitor is already under non-competes...well then you have some short term insurance against competition, don't you?

[mbperrin]

34. Dang, don't they realize that good working wages are just

plain unAmerican? It's a Commie, er Al Quaida, er left wing, or some kinda dang plot! Let's go over it again - profits for soulless corporations -good. Extreme salaries for ceos good. wages bad

[stickdog]

36. Wow! People actually getting paid a decent wage for their labor!

Can't have that, now can we?

Let's find whoever is responsible and lynch them!