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Thom Little Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:43 PM
Original message
Higher learning, turn left. Conservatives get shut out, senator says.
NASHVILLE -- Funding for colleges is threatened by a "growing political one-sidedness" on many campuses which doesn't allow for more conservative ideas, U.S. Sen. Lamar Alexander told higher education officials here Friday.

"How many conservative speakers are invited to deliver commencement addresses? How many colleges require courses in U.S. history? How many even teach Western Civilization? ... Those are politically unacceptable topics," the Tennessee Republican testified before the Commission on the Future of Higher Education.

The commission -- created by U.S. Education Secretary Margaret Spellings this fall -- met in Nashville Thursday and Friday and will hold similar meetings across the country over the next several months. The next will be in San Diego in February.

By Aug. 1, the commission must recommend how to make colleges more accessible and affordable for families, accountable to policy-makers and competitive with peers worldwide.



http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/midsouth_news/artic...
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. What?
No American history or Western Civ? I find that very hard to believe.

Anybody??
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Western Civilization is a required course at my College.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Same here. n/t
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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
66. Mine too (or optionally world civ)
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MalachiConstant Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #66
79. you got it. me too
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Nabia2004 Donating Member (566 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. US and History of Western Civilization cured me of my koolaid addiction
I started out taking these requirements and ended up making electives of all the US History and History of Western Civilization courses. It was a very enlightening time for me. I went in as a "Nixon did no wrong" bone-headed republican and graduated a wide-eyed open-minded independent.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. See, that's what they're afraid of. Kool-aid drinkers getting smart.
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Charles19 Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #47
80. Once the kool-aid drinkers learn how to read they won't drink it anymore
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PaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #34
72. Ding, Ding, Ding
We have a winner. This movement has nothing to do with fairness and has everything to do with indoctrinating students with ideology. It kills right wingers like Lamar Alexander that kids go to college and are subjected to four or more years of learning at the hands of people who are A.) intelligent and B.) critical thinkers.
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
120. A very hearty welcome to DU
It is amazing what a little "education" will do. :toast:
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
56. Had them both at my ART COLLEGES (known for being liberal)
I went to two art schools, both fairly well known in the Art community-and both taught those topics. It's had to understand various art movements without knowledge of our history.
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Maybe because
Higher education is meant to open ones mind, while conservatives specialize in the closing of minds.
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darkism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. BINGO!
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Suggested this before, I'll suggest it again:
How about a trade?

Howzabout we give chancellorships and presidencies of 100 of the top 500 universities to conservatives, if they allow us to install 100 liberal CEO's in the oil, coal, and healthcare industries? I'd be happy with that.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is such nonsense
While most of my profs in subjects such as history, sociology, and English have been fairly left leaning, practically every economics instructor has been a Rightie. My macro-economics teacher was an neo-con. He thought wars, running up deficits, and eliminating social programs were just dandy. This is just my experience, but I've gone to several institutions from junior colleges to state universities. 20 year Bachelor's degree plan, y'know ;) Not to mention you have all these conservative foundations and think tanks who fund the indoctrination of budding Right Wingers. Sen. Alexander and people like him consider the presence of ANY liberals or leftist ideas on campus to be an affront and threat to them. And umm...as far as I know, U.S. History and Western Civilization are still being taught in college. I had to take at least one of them to graduate.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I have found (my husband is a prof) that
many computer types are conservative as well. And lots of scientists. The left is definitely the humanities around here.

As it should be, in my opinion. Youth is a time for idealism. Time enough to sell out later.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. They don't call it "liberal arts" for nothin'!! n/t
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. I graduated from DeVry University
Engineering diploma mill...and you wouldn't believe the extent to which the profs there engaged in prosyletizing. What's funny is that of all the schools and universities I've attended, it's the only one where I've had a book stolen--and the book was on (Gnostic) Christianity.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. my father...

My father studied engineering at IIT. More snippy snipey anti-science bullshit from the covert Puritans amongst us.

Is he a liberal? Well, he called himself one. I guess that doesn't factor into people's bullshit prejudices.

And I guess liberal engineers get 'punished' by those same cowardly snippy-snipeys when they think
no one is looking.

How convenient when you need scientists and engineers to do a terror investigation.

What's more, architects tend to be fairly left-wing, and they work with and respect engineers.
But you know, the Calvinist snippy-snipey crowd doesn't believe in civility, they believe that
politics should be about isolation and hatred.
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MalachiConstant Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
40. i've actually found that most
engineers and scientists are fairly apolitical. i have my degree in physics and most of my classes were either with engineers math majors or physics kids and not too many of them cared much for politics one way or the other. of course there are exceptions.
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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #40
68. Like me
:hi:
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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
82. And me
Strange political engineers of the world Unite! :hi:
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tn-guy Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
109. I tend to agree.....
I think that engineers and scientists are generally not too fervent in the political realm (obviously there are some exceptions). My theory is that those folks are more interested in the pragmatic, provable and repeatable rather than the purely speculative. By my observation, most ardent politicians are not interested in honest measurable results, only in selective examination of the data which tends to support their side.

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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. most scientists are not conservative
The scientific community- especially those in biological or ecological studies- tend to be among the most brilliant and left thinking minds in society.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. No, not most
but lots. My dad was a chemist and most of his colleagues were very conservative. Now, that has been 20 years or more. Might have changed.

From what I see, many biologists are also very environmentally conscious, and therefore lean a bit farther left? Geologists, however, are out there looking for oil!

I guess I'm stereotyping. But I will say this: most teachers are democrats. I know this much!
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. sorry...all the geologists I know too
You're dad must've had an odd bunch of colleagues, coz all the scientists I know are all die hard socialists.

I suspect it may be a generational thing.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #48
71. I think is it probably generational
and then, also, my dad was in private industry and so that wasn't a good argument on my part as we were talking academia.

The geologists I know are at FSU and most also do work for oil companies.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #48
112. My Geology 101 instructor in college was a pretty progressive-thinking
person. She used to work for an oil company, and got out when she just couldn't stand the bullshit anymore. I really respected her. And the joy on her face when she talked about brechias and pyroclastic flows was wonderful to behold. She was terrific.

I got a 3.8 in her class, too. B-)
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #43
76. Agreed
and my math department is among the most liberal at my university.
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
85. Depends.
You'd think a field that relies on applied mathematics and logic for its very existence wouldn't be that way. I went to SUNY Tech at Utica/Rome, and politics is a subject that rarely comes up.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
89. I take exception...
those in science have a liberal streak. Ecologist have seen the environment poisoned. Medical types (public health, pediatrics, geriatrics, mental health, Nursing) are seeing programs slashed to our detriment. And have you tried to get a job using you computer knowledge-they have been outsourced and you are obsolete baby. Maybe the engineering types (until they see their job outsourced to a graduate from India), but liberalism is alive and well in the scientific arts.
But I am guessing you are from Fla...it is probably different there.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. I have long that that it is an interesting position to take
that the vast majoirty of the most educated people (higher ed teachers) and the most informed (media) are liberal. What does that say for conservative ideas?
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Remember that comment KKKarl Rove made?
I'm too lazy to find the exact quote but it was something to the effect that people were more likely to vote Republican the higher up in income they went. That is, unless they got educated, in which case they tended to vote Democratic. Which, to him, just went to show that too much education was a bad thing.

Isn't it funny how often they blurt out the truth?
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
77. The quote is
"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing"
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RoveBlowsDogs Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
67. Not only that, but CIA personnel tend to lean left too....
So let's review - physicists, mathematicians, and other thinking type hard scientists tend to lean left. As do people in the Intelligence business. So, brains and liberal leanings are correlated? Or having a clue and being reality based tend to cause one to lean away from Neo-Conservatism? Gee, just like those commie pinko unamericans like Jefferson, and Madison, and Franklin, and Washington and Adams and ..... Excuse me while my head explodes.
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. US History and Western Civilization are "conservative" subjects
Thta's just despicable demagoguery.

If you're not a conservative, apparently, you are neither an American, nor civilized.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. I will agree that "in my day"
universities were a bit light on Eastern studies, for example. But we are a Western culture and understanding our history is pretty damned important. I just looked at FSU's offerings online and there are plenty of Western Civs and American history classes. More RW hype.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well conservitives dont cotton to book lernin too much.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. Total Distraction and Noise
Edited on Sat Dec-10-05 02:05 PM by Crisco
I'd bet that most college professors would love it if university again became about an institution for learning, as opposed to the resum mills they have become.

Still, I'm curious to know how college funding is threated.

Wall Street wanted more MBAs. We made more MBAs. Wall Street wanted more engineers. We made more engineers. Wall Street wanted more medical trainees. We made more medical trainees.

US education has long been driven by the needs of US industry. If funding is cut it will be because industry has no clue what it needs to keep the economy going, and in what direction it will go.


on edit: here's more from a source you needn't register

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20...

There's a lot more in there. I have respect for Lamar, but one of the things in his speech terrifies me for the future of higher education. He's calling for education to be like media has become: an institution with no diversity.

"The greatest threat to the quality of American higher education is not underfunding. It is overregulation. The key to the quality of our higher education system is that it is not a system. It is a marketplace of 6,000 autonomous institutions," he said in his prepared statement to the group.

We saw what happened to the marketplace in other areas of deregulation: everything owned by 2-3 entities. Education would be no different.
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #11
86. What I would tell kids, given the opportunity.
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 10:39 AM by trogdor
Major in some profession, like engineering, and minor in that which really floats your boat, whether it's English literature, sculpture, or whatever. You'll have something interesting to tell the HR guy, especially if you can somehow relate your minor to whatever it is the company makes or does. At the very least, you can say you actually got an education while at college.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. I took all of those liberal classes like Mathematics and Science.
:sarcasm:
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. & I HAD to take courses like Western Civ
which were REQUIRED for my liberal arts degree at a very Eastern university - no kidding.

This is just the usual right wing whacko* fandango to get traction for some good ol' reverse discrimination.


*right wing whackos gotta be whacking somebody or something that threatens to take away their disproportionate richly corrupted gains; like they did to JFK, MLK, Bill Clinton, Hugo Chavez, and the so called liberal biased MSM. See Syriana.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. "Conservatives" don't need education, they already know everything
or will be told what to believe soon by their "leaders"

this is not a mental state conducive to learning anything.
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Charles19 Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
81. Well put
The current wave of right wing-nut conservatism is based on many things that do not work well in education. Some things people learn in school that just won't work with wing-nut ideology are critical thinking and logic. If you have a background in either of these for one you can't watch Fox news without jumping off a high building or becoming physically violent.

Every segment on Fox news is contrary to everything one would do if applying good critical thinking skills. All the wing-nut speaches of especially Cheney and Bush are pathetic in terms of critical thinking as well. People who would apply critical thinking skills to the BS they spew see this as well. Once a wing-nut learns these skills and applies them they would not be a wing-nut anymore.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #81
84. the system they seek to create can't work, you can't live a lie forever
please god let it end before it's too late to save the country.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is nothing but rightwing propaganda. I have BAs in both....
...Political Science and History, and I know that the curriculum at my old college has changed very little.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. He can send his kids to Bob Jones University
or Oral Roberts University.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. How many even understand Western Civilization?
Conservatives shut themselves out because they don't go to college to learn, they go to preach.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
60. None. They just have faith in a mythological notion of it.
... as you point out.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Most colleges and universities
teach Western Civ as a regrquired course.

As usual for conservatives Lamar alexander is talking out of his ass.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
62. They make declarative statements and it is the truth to them (NOT).
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. Maybe because you couldn't get a student body to refrain
...from heckling unless you THREATENED TO WITHHOLD THEIR DIPLOMAS!

What a crock!
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. Consider the source.
Lamar Alexander is just another corrupt RW reTHUG nut case who belongs in jail.

:eyes:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. "Conservative" means no new ideas=no PhD thesis. Get a clue, Spellings.
New ideas are what get published and publication is what gets tenure. Nobody is going to get any academic brownie points for repeating the same old same old---that's for high school teachers. Therefore, so called intellectual liberals will always have an advantage over so called intellectual conservatives when it comes to academic success.

That is just the way things are. Sort of like how taller people make better basketball players. Suck it up.
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. What exactly would conservative history consist of?
What comes to my head is a professor droning on and on about a sort of Marxist view of history in reverse. Instead of history being about the events that drove social progress against oppression, it would be about how to keep the jealous masses content enough to keep them from taking your god-given property. Sort of a blend of social Darwinism and Calvinistic ideology.
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darkism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Conservative history in a nutshell:
Big :sarcasm: tag here, just for safety.

Again, :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:


Conservative history notes in a nutshell:

Beginning of time: 6000 years ago; Earth created by god in six days. Human beings spring fully-formed into existence with a snap of the celestial fingers.

Time of Christ: The savior preached "kill the 'ho-mo-sexuals'" at every opportunity. Who needs "do unto others" and all that communist social justice tripe?

Crusades: good. Kill all the heretics and claim the world for the ONE TRUE LORD.

Inquisition: good. See above.

Slavery: good til' those damn yanks made us get rid of it

Civil rights movement: Bad. Damn uppity negroes oppressing the underprivileged rich white Christian man.

Vietnam: We stayed the course and won their hearts and minds.

Reagan era: Second coming of Christ.

Clinton era: OH NOES HE GOT HEAD; LIBERALS ARE GOING TO HELL FOR THAT ONE!

Vietraq part 2: Reliving the glory days of the crusades.

** era: Third coming of Christ.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

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kalibex Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #33
74. heh, heh...
But, you can boil it down still further, make it even simpler:

'Wealthy white Christian men can do no wrong'
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Grins Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. Just checked my alma mater...
36 REQUIRED credit hours in nine areas. Along with the mandatory courses in AMERICAN HISTORY, and WESTERN CIVILIZATION (take that Senator), there is a bunch of required courses in science and math, philosophy and theology (A LOT of theology. It is a Jesuit University after all).
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. Maybe because conservatives are hostile to education
Edited on Sat Dec-10-05 03:59 PM by depakid
Conservative policies are outright failures, their proponents are almost invariably dishonest and the "ideas" such as they are, promote ignorance and intolerance.

Small wonder they don't do to well in higher education.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. Conservatives are to universities as atheists are to churches
There is no point filling the place up with them, as they simply don't believe in the message and purpose of the institution.

Occasionally there are exceptions - church going atheists and university going conservatives. Usually it is just a way of conforming or making business connections, though - there is no real interest.
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. More "War on X" BS....
At ASU, CU and the colleges my sisters are at/went to, Western Civ was required, as was US history. I majored in history and psych, one of my sisters is a poli sci (international relations major), one's a chem major. All three of us had at least 3 classes in Am His, Western Civ or similar to get our undergraduate requirements out of the way. WVU required history, according to my programmer husband.

Show the evidence, Mr. Alexander. Give us proof. Your say so is worth about as much as the hot air you spew.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. Neo-cons and fundamentalists are against the humanities
So they promote the illogical conclusion that colleges of the humanities are discriminating against them.

A true conservative really has no problem with the liberal arts. It is only the anti-intellectualism of neo-conservatives with their fascist agenda that causes them to attack university programs. The fundamentalists are anti-intellectual by their very nature and are funded by the far right to "dumb down" the population and obscure rational dialogue.

This whole propaganda campaign is characteristic of totalitarianism. Hitler and Mussolini had it in for the intellectuals as effetes who wouldn't submit to their irrational extremism and murderous objectives.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
35. How many campuses have had Ann Coulter as a "guest."
Fuck them and their "poor me" fake victimhood. Were it not for liberal thinking, we'd all still be living in caves.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
36. Conservatives are to greedy to become professors, not enough $$$
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #36
57. So there's the solution: let's raise academic salaries! eom
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drfresh Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
37. Our school can't afford conservative speakers
Bottom line, they want a lot more money for their time than those of their "liberal counterparts"
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. Surely he is not referring about Ann Coulter's reception at UConn
Edited on Sat Dec-10-05 05:51 PM by IndianaGreen
when she insulted her audience.

Lamar must be thinking of running for President again!
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. The (unpopular) truth is...
Edited on Sat Dec-10-05 07:07 PM by Psephos
...there's a reason that conservative and liberal minds exist in the population. It's no accident; nothing in our make-up is. Nature long ago edited out what didn't confer survival advantage. During a critical period of our evolution, we were tribal primates who needed some tribe members to protect and preserve, and others to wander and wonder. The combination proved to be best for all tribe members. One more legacy of this tribal phase remains: our irresistible urge to label anyone from outside our "tribe" an outsider, and to feel an instinctual reaction of hate to those who are different. This instinct can be overcome, but it takes discipline and a civilized mindset.

As a social species, we still need some who conserve the old and proven ways of doing things, who exercise caution and skepticism about anything new. They provide the fall-back, baseline survival for the group. Equally, we need those who value progress, new ways of doing things, who aren't afraid to envision a better world, and imagine fresh approaches to getting there. These people provide the ability to not only weather change, but to thrive because of it.

As a political species, we benefit from the competition between conservatives and liberals because the competition keeps both groups sharp and hungry. Power unopposed becomes power corrupted, always and everywhere, if one cares to read history books.

As a compassionate species, we need conservatives to encourage self-reliance, because in the end, no one will take better care of you than you. We need liberals because self-reliance is not enough, and, as Franklin said, if we do not hang together, we will all hang separately. Together, our strength is greater than the sum of our parts. It seems to me overwhelmingly greater, and this is part of the reason I'm a liberal.

What we do not need is blind hatred of people who have different political beliefs. We don't have to feel all cuddly toward them, and we absolutely should not paper over our differences, but more civility would lubricate the gears of society to everyone's benefit. There's a lesson in how the feud between the Hatfields and the McCoys ended up destroying both parties.

Political intolerance is another form of religious intolerance, which is another form of blind loyalty to one's in-group, and xenophobic hatred of one's out-group. Belief systems are powerful and useful, but no honest person can look at history and say that any one religion or any one political dogma has ever yielded a utopia. Quite the contrary - monoculture is the path to totalitarian control.

That's why my rational self is glad to see a mix of conservatives and liberals on campuses, even though my political self cringes at the prospect. (They aren't called repugs for nothing.) As another poster in this thread said, it would be just fine by me to trade off maybe a hundred university presidencies or chancellorships for a like number of top posts in Fortune 500 companies. The problem with this commission's findings is that it focuses on the liberal islands within higher education, and ignores the conservative continents across the rest of society.

These are my opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

Peace.


edit: typo
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #41
59. Wow. I wish I could nominate this post.
:thumbsup:
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phrenzy Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
69. Maybe Not
This was an amazing post. I have saved it on my puter.

However, it has a bit too much of a 'moral equivalency' vibe to it. Yes, in a very general sense, we need the more adventurous and progressive along with the cautious and conservative - but this does not accurately encompass the reality of political identity and ideology.

I do not believe for a second that we require a regressive and ignorant component in our society to 'survive' - not at this point. There are many forward thinking places that do quite well without pandering to narrow minded policies (which by definition is what conservative policy is).

Of course, I hate to go there, but no one would argue the 'Conservative' and ideological ideas of Hitler would benefit *ANY* society even if he was a yin to somebody's yang. That isn't to say, if the communist party had taken over Germany instead of the nazis that things would have been great either, but there are some philosophies that are useless and socially retarded on their face. Modern conservatism is one of those things.

Another large point I think you missed is that the 'conservative' Republican party of today is monolithic. It celebrates group think and discourages anything that deviates from it's superstitious dogmatic rules.

Liberalism, on the other hand is nowhere near an 'Anything' goes ideology. It is more like, let's listen to everybody and make a practical choice. You can have cautious liberals, and reckless liberals and still maintain the balance required to survive as a 'tribe'.

Basically, I believe that a liberal ideology by definition celebrates 'diversity' and leads to better and quicker 'progress' (i.e. progressive) for it's people. Conservatism leads to the taliban, if unchecked EVERY time. Because it is so obsessed with control over peoples bodies, choices, religion, etc. that it will ALWAYS evolve into a repressive state.

This is one of the reasons I can never understand liberals or democrats being remotely equated with soviet style 'communists' - They were VERY conservative. They were not interested in a free exchange of ideas, which to me is the foundation of liberalism. They were very strict about enforcing a conformity. Progressives embrace non-comformity and don't do so fool heartedly. They do it thoughtfully.

The best example I can think of to illustrate all of this, is that if you simply browse the message boards here on DU and then go and look at Free Republic. The difference is astounding.

Around here, you see a large diversity of ideas. In terms of art, music, attitude, sex, gender issues, etc. DU is VERY diverse and interesting. There is nowhere near this kind of dialogue on FR. It is frightening, how people say the most insane things on that board on a regular basis, and all they get are a chorus of 'me toos' chiming in.

Put it this way, I think if DU were a country it would thrive and invent and progress without falling apart because there is an underlying intelligence behind every debate that happens on this board. FR, on the other hand, as a country would collapse in under the weight of it's own narrow mindedness. They would not move anywhere if they followed the modern conservative ideology to it's logical conclusion.
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
106. Please repost this in its own thread
It needs to be recommended.
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suegeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. In exchange, can we open up the "war" colleges?
Edited on Sat Dec-10-05 07:09 PM by suegeo
How about getting some peace activists to teach in the Army war college? Maybe introduce some anti-torture advocates into West Point? How many bloody places has the government set up to further study war and violence and how to mess with peoples' minds using terror tactics?

Let's start with the douche bags who came up with the concept shock and awe, or maybe fire the insane freak "teachers" who thought sexual humiliation would be a "good" way to torture Arab men and women.

Or how about some real human beings with ethics to teach in the uptight "business" schools? Might cut down on rigth-wing corporate corruption.
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President Kerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. Conservative education is an oxymoron. n/t
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
45. Several quotes come to mind.
" It aint what you dont know that will hurt you, its what you think you know that aint so. "Will Rogers

John Stuart Mill that goes, Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.

Phillip K. Dick reminds us, Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesnt go away!
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
49. They lost the remnants of their credibility
in Kansas.

Do we really need higher education professors teaching us that evolution is a fairy tale, and intelligent design is science? Or research specialists teaching that life begins at conception, Plan B prevents conception, yet Plan B is a type of abortion?

When they figure out the concept of higher education, I'd be happy to have them on staff.
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Kitsune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
50. This guy has clearly never met any of MY profs. *nt*
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
51. They control lower education and high school education
now the colleges ... Hitler burned the books and closed them down!!!
Scientists had to flee... is that was is happening???
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
52. Closed-mindedness
and education are mutually exclusive, no?
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november3rd Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
53. Conservative bigwigs
Conservative bigwigs need affirmative action, too. Just because they aren't reasonable enough to understand politics, economics and society doesn't mean they aren't entitled to their opinions.

Besides, "Western Civilization" courses are the substance of the very definition of "liberal thought." It means open-minded, willing to look at and integrate new evidence into our higher, synthesized worldview. Why would somebody teach Homer to MLK if they don't believe in learning how to live better and understand your universe, your world and your self more in the process?

It's a no-brainer. Conservative bigwigs are all conformists--that's what "conservative" really means.

Go F*** yourself, Lamar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
54. That's funny
I'm going to be (hopefully) going to San Diego State University in Fall of '06 majoring in Philosophy specializing Logic and History specializing in Western Civ, and I just finished a Western Civ course and am taking the next half next semester, I wonder where he gets that from about colleges not offering Western Civ and US History, I know that mine offers both. He must not have been to a real college in a while.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
55. Utter rubbish... there is significant conservative presence on almost
every campus...

This is a red herring to take control of Higher Ed, like everything else.
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Voltaire99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
58. Let's hope the left survives this latest purge...
...academia's the last institution in which we have any say.
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Baconfoot Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
61. He's got it backwards.The left are the ones who WANT you to know historyNT

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
63. What does funding have to do with actual courses taught?


....NASHVILLE -- Funding for colleges is threatened by a "growing political one-sidedness" on many campuses which doesn't allow for more conservative ideas, U.S. Sen. Lamar Alexander told higher education officials here Friday.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
64. Sounds like he has never visited RCC in Hamlet, NC
where Faux News is the only thing played for students in the student lounge, work study supervisors capaigned for Bush in 2004, and teacher preach against liberals during class. This dude needs to get a grip on reality. Conservative are taking over higher education.

Oh, and btw, the Cole Auditorium seems to only have conseravatives in its lineup including Pat Boone, so Alexander is beyond full of shit.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
65. I had sooooo many liberal prof's in my accounting and
finance classes.....
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
70. That's because RW policies are stupid.

They are the mindless, hypocritical self-contradictory wibblings of people with no intellectual discipline. And rigourous training in how to USE your intellect leads inescapably towards the left.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
73. Higher learning is about higher thinking. Seems you can be a rote
Edited on Sun Dec-11-05 08:57 AM by applegrove
thinking neocon and make it at a University. Is anyone surprised? Neocons hate the enlightenment. Why would any profressor or students put up with a bunch of conservative students walking into class and telling everyone the way it is?

If you are a corporate babe - then that is what you are. Quite pretending your thoughts come from somewhere else. And go the MBA school.

Already scientists are warning the world not to take journal reports from "industry" seriously. That is all politics and what the MBA teaches biotech & drug companies is that the consumer is the enemy - and that they should be as uninformed as possible - so that they take marketing well.

Why is this a surprise?

Hell if neocons had there way - there would be one rare school for the ten of them who have the right to think - and everyone else would be excluded from the raw data. This is exactly what they want. The endowment experts and the alumni to start shaking the tree of higher education so that "alternative views" on science, history, perhaps math, etc. are told to unsuspecting kids - whose parents have saved for a generations to pay for a very expensive education so that their kids would be able to think critically.

Ten neocons deem it not necessary for all of America to think or think critically. So I guess - all of higher education and the experts in all fields - should just roll over and play dead.

That would be a nice world for them. Also known as the Middle Ages.



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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
75. " We don't need none of that there book learnin'"
From the site we cannot link to, they make our point for us:
"Liberals' idea of higher education is to never come to a conclusion about anything. Conservatives specialize in the undeniable truth and how once you know it, you can be confident in your knowledge. Confidence in your knowledge is the only noble outcome when education is your goal."
Thanks, Demonic Underwear, for proving what a blithering idiot you are!
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
78. You know why they're shut out? Because they're FUCKING MORONS!
To keep in goose-step with each other, conservatives pretty much have to agree on these things, or at least tolerate their practice and application:

* The millions of tons of carbon being released into the atmosphere has no effect on global temperatures. This argument comes from the same people who tried so hard to tell us that freon wasn't bad for the ozone layer, until one day a hole the size of a continent appeared in it.

* There is little point in being concerned for the environment because the Magical Sky Pixie told us to go fuck it up, and the faster we wreck it the sooner the Magical Sky Pixie will come back.

* History is a giant charade in which the writers were very carefully speaking in code to an equally esoteric and politically manipulative audience. (While that almost certainly untrue for most of history, it unfortunately has been true since 2001.)

* "Trickle-down" economics, even though it has been ridiculed by honest economists and leaders for well over half a century, somehow is gonna work this time.

You know why academia is left-leaning? Because academia is based largely upon the scientific method of hypothesis, testing or observation, and theory designed to accomodate the data. Conservative intellectuallism is based on the pay-me method of "no, it's not."

That is what Al Franken would call "being a fucking moron," and the place for fucking morons in our colleges is in urine-and-beer soaked basement keg parties, not the classroom.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
83. How many colleges require courses in U.S. history? Errr- ALL OF THEM?
Western Civ. was taught at my small community college as well.

Is he making this up? Yes.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #83
93. not all of them. It was offered, but not required, at mine. n/t
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
87. LMAO, as I'm learning Micro-Economics from teaching materials created
by a professor from Oral Roberts University and learning about individual taxes from a prof that thinks the Dubya tax plan and flat taxes are the greatest ideas ever, or the personal finance teacher that taught us about how Social Security will be totally bankrupt and privatization is the only way out. My God, I have nothing but hippies teaching me! AHHHHHHHHH! :-)
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ChoralScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
88. What the hell does he want done about it?
A Political Litmus Test for Professors?

Conservative Quotas?
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
90. forget it.
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 11:01 AM by superconnected
I don't see a place for partisanship here.

"By Aug. 1, the commission must recommend how to make colleges more accessible and affordable for families, accountable to policy-makers and competitive with peers worldwide. "

If republicans can't get into college, it's a reflection of their test scores.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
91. Yet another contortionist
rethug - speaking while his head is up his ass!
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
92. Lamar!
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 10:59 AM by Tarc
How many conservative speakers are invited to deliver commencement addresses?


Amusing that this comes from Lamar Alexander...he spoke at my college in the mid-90's and was nearly booed and airhorned right off the stage.

The reason that education tilts to the left is really quite simple; it isn't a money-making career. Upon graduation, conservative-minded students will generally follow the money trail into the private sector of law firms and such. Liberal-minded students do so as well, but many also choose careers in the public sector, which may be personally rewarding but with less of a financial upside.

So if right-wingers are so uppity about liberal academia, they have only thewir own greed tendencies to blame.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
94. "accountable to policy-makers"???
Considering the Republican policy-makers currently in the majority will at some time in the future be in the minority, this makes little sense. It's crap like this that's part of the reason education is such a mess.

So, now they're in the process of starving government with the exception of the DOD, it's time to move into the complete destruction of public education...adapt or die. Cons have been screaming for ages about higher education as the "liberal bastion" and indoctrination of the country's youth. It's absurd and I have yet to see any evidence proving their argument. But, hey! Because they say it, it must be so! :eyes:
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
95. Western Civ. was required at the last college I taught at
and all the conservative business majors HATED it and talked all the time about how the requirement should be abolished because it was "useless."

In my experience in academia, the humanities and social science (except for economics) professors were liberal to radical, the scientists were all over the place politically (including a Marxist biology professor), and the business department was solidly conservative.

As a language instructor, I taught mostly skill courses with little or no political content. In 1985 I taught Modern Japanese Culture a rather conservative state university, though, and I first amused the class by telling them that Japan's Liberal-Democratic Party was actually the most conservative party in country and then astounded them by telling them that it maintained national health care and superb mass transit and presided over a school system that educated high school students to second-year college level in many subjects.

That was after I coincidentally assigned a reading on the firebombing of Tokyo in March 1945 (my actual intent was to give them an idea of how far Japan had had to come in the past forty years) the night before Reagan's bombing raid on Libya was announced. A few of the students commented that they had never before thought about what it must be like to be on the receiving end of a bombing raid.

The campus was heavily into ROTC, as one could see when they had their "dress-up day" every month, and sometimes the letters to the editor of the campus news paper read like the Hate Mail Bag.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
96. Academic escellence requires research into many...
...differing points of view. This tends to weed out the most closed-minded, and will always tip academia leftward.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
97. "How many conservative speakers are invited to deliver commencement
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:20 PM by genieroze
addresses?" Too many. LOL
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
98. Another manufactured, diversionary issue
for conservatives to harp on while the nation's middle class sinks into oblivion.
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bkcc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
99. Left? Liberal? What a load of shit.
Universities in this country are becoming more and more corporatized as we speak. The conservative Right will not be satisfied until all intellectual thought is outlawed and all conversations are about Jesus.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #99
104. Yep. A neocon looks at something he doesn't yet own...
...and immediately starts dreaming up conspiracies against him.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
100. I seem to remember plenty of conservative commencement
Edited on Mon Dec-12-05 01:54 PM by Skidmore
speakers on CSPAN last spring.

Well, time to cue Lynn Cheney and David Horowitz on the violins. It's the "dismantle public education concerto". Don't for get "Smokin' Joe Lieberman while you are at it. Remember this venture?
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1213-05.htm

Another reason to dislike ole Joe.
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
101. Rubbish Higher-learning not *growing* more left
And conservatives are not some minority class to be protected. Balderdash.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
102. The conservative view of Western Civilization?
Students Get Pig's-Eye View of History

The contributions of an animal that has been reviled, mocked and dined upon for centuries are being recognized in a Xavier University class highlighting American pig history.

"As I was doing research, I found pigs popping up in rather significant settings," said assistant history professor Karim Tiro, who teaches the class.

Few realize that swine sailed to the New World with Columbus, sparked wars between colonists and American Indians and helped pioneer the assembly line, he said.

He covers those and other topics in "A History of the Pig in America with Especial Reference to the City of Cincinnati Otherwise Known as Porkopolis."
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
103. Um.......who elects these morons?
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
105. I always find the really good threads a day or two late.
But still, for the record, I'd like to say that IMO there is no (causative) correlation between intelligence and one's liberal (or conservative) worldview - even though many here at DU claim there is.

One interesting connection, though, lies in how strongly a person clings to cognitive closure and absolute beliefs in their personal belief system.

Liberals tend to appreciate ambiguity in their worldview. We often feel uncomfortable within rigid epistemological systems. We are typically open to other views that we don't believe ourselves - but try to accept in others.

Conservatives tend to feel insecure in fields where rules and laws are not explicit. They don't need to prove to themselves that the rules make sense - only that they are enforced. The "War on Drugs" is a perfect example. Conservatives typically align with authority against free-expression. These are psychological dispositions that are established early in life.

Liberals are well represented in the arts of course, where rigid rules and belief systems are anathema to creativity. Liberals tend to approach life as an adventure that could take us wherever it will - if we remain open to new experiences.

Conservatives are well represented in the practical arts like economics, military, law enforcement, etc. that are organized around systems of rules.

But these are subtle distinctions - and career choice often has more to do with practicality (like income) and parental expectations, etc. than with disposition.

Math and physics (my majors) are full of inviolable rules - yet they have a beauty and transcendence in their simplicity that extends far beyond those underlying principles - that appeals to liberal (small L) minds.





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Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
107. I went to a Presbyterian oriented engineering college in the rust belt
1. We had a mandatory 2 semester, 6 credit course in "Western Civilization" which included Christian Church "history" (NOT THEOLOGY OR DOCTRINE) from the time of Christ to Martin Luther - with emphasis on the HISTORICAL, POLITICAL, AND SOCIAL CONTEXT.

2. We had a mandatory 2 semester, 6 credit course in "Literature and Composition" which included a module on the Bible as Literature.

3. We had a mandatory 1 semester, 3 credit course in "World Literature" which also included a module on the Bible as Literature.

4. There was an elective course in "Philosophy of Religion" which was variously taught by two Professors from Duquesne University (Holy Ghost Fathers) - a priest and a rabbi, and a Pittsburgh Theological Seminary (Presbyterian - where Fred Rogers was ordained) professor. Students also had the opportunity to get credit at the collegiate level seminaries in the community. (Including Grove City College - Non DEnominational Christian and Bethany College of West Virginia - Disciples of Christ, among others).

5. The Professor who taught the mandatory, required "101" course in Mech E (required for all engineering majors) was an Evangelical Minister, and the first ten minutes of Mech E 101 lecture was a reading from Scripture -- and a sermon.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
108. Oepn Your Mind
Stupid assholes....

Learning means you must be willing to receive information, whether you agree with it or not. Because Conservatives can't receive information they don't approve of politically, they will never learn.
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
110. Who wants to listen to the right reich spew bile and hate at
a graduation?!? Jesus, Mary 'n Joseph, whats wrong with these puke hatemongers? What do they want - legislation to ensure their free reign at graduations, public, private, high school and college?

The typical pukian speaking venue is typified by very tight control over who comes into the event. No opposing voices need attend. What makes them think they should be welcomed with open arms everywhere?

How about if they work on legislation that provides equal media time and fair debates during political campaigns, instead of letting the richest with corporate backers buy their way in.



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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
111. I don't understand this deal about western civ no longer being taught
or US History?

Why do they lie to promote their noncause?
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #111
114. Well, they do in fact have a cause, which explains why they lie.
They want the lefties out of the education system so that the RW can dominate that to.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #114
117. Will this is one lefite in education who will not leave quietly
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
113. when the best they can do is say the earth
is 12,000 years old, what could they possibly say that would enlighten a single person?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
115. Universities typuically don't like irrational or corrupt individuals
and since most conservatives are either one or both- it makes sense that no one wants to hear their propaganda. Not to mention that they're constantly cutting funding for education at ALL levels- and have recently upped the rates on student loans and cut Pell Grants (despite Bush's promise to the contrary during the debates with Kerry)

Who the fuck do these people think they are? Claiming to make colleges more affordable and accessable when they consistently do exactly the opposite- and have been for over 20 years?

Oh, that's right- I forgot. Black is white, Up is down.


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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
116. this is part of the continued assault on higher education.
while not choreographed like a dance per se -- make no mistake that conservatives want

a) fewer people going to 4 year institutions -- community college is fine and dandy however.

b) to control WHAT gets taught at 4 year institutions.
you cannot create the rigid mind set in the population that neocons, free traders, etc want if students are being challenged to think -- and think critically.
the humanities would be at the very top of the hit list.

and this assault -- maybe more than all others -- is dangerous indeed to our future as a nation.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
118. Re-Headlined
Hillbilly Senator demands equal time for flat-earth, terracentric, and racial purity classes.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
119. My experience 6 years ago as an older adult student
These consecrative professors are going to have major run ins with the OLDER adult students. Yes, there are MANY now a days. Had run ins with them myself. However, as a 40 something they could not intimidate ME or any of the other older students in class.

I remember one particularly obnoxious, very conservative professor I had one semester. Every time any student would stand up to challenge him on his CONSERVATIVE views he would ridicule them with, "What do YOU know? Did you read that on a LIBERAL Blog or in the NY Times?"

One day in class, after he had berated one of the younger students again, I finally had had enough, stood up, and challenged him. I said to him, "Ok, argue with ME. I did not read about this in the NY Times, I LIVED through it as an ADULT, when you were probably just learning TO read." I then proceeded to argue my views. After I had finished, another older woman in class also stood up and challenged him too. He just stood there in stunned silence. After that day, he never belittled ANY student in his class that semester.

These "conservative" professors like nothing more than to impose domination of their views on their students. They do NOT encourage independent thinking. They only know BULLYING of their "underlings", much like this Administration. BUT challenge them, and they FOLD.

And I have taught my daughter, who is in college now, to do exactly the same.

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
121. Lamar Alexander is a geniune stupid asshole.
If he can't figure out why these schools are rejecting right wingers, then he'll never understand why this country is so pissed that riots may eruppt this summer.

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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
122. Hell when I took "Latin American Political History" way back it...
Edited on Mon Dec-26-05 07:49 PM by JanMichael
...was almost all about American achievements!

Like getting Allende deposed and other such wonderful democratic things. Turned me far LEFT almost like magic.

Lamar is an idiot if he wants MORE critical thought about American achievements tossed "our" way.

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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
123. oh boo hoo hoo
Edited on Mon Dec-26-05 08:20 PM by pitohui
lamar, it ain't our fault that our conservatives are not as intelligent as liberals

go away and tilt some more at yr windmills (to those who don't get it, apparently he's also exercised abt windmill farms being put in view of his property, ha ha ha ha ha)
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