(Marine Gen. Peter) Pace defends use of white phosphorus

[sabra]

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1383205.php

Pace defends use of white phosphorus

Associated Press


The top American general defended the use of white phosphorus in Iraq and said Tuesday the U.S. military goes to greater lengths than any other force to protect civilians from being harmed by its weapons.
Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the incendiary agent is used primarily as a flare, to light up a target for airstrikes, and as a shield of smoke to hide troop movements.

“White phosphorus is a legitimate tool of the military,” Pace said at a news conference in the military’s Pentagon headquarters.

“It is not a chemical weapon. It is an incendiary. And it is well within the law of war to use those weapons as they’re being used, for marking and for screening.”

....

“No armed force in the world goes to greater effort than your armed force to protect civilians and to be very precise in the way we apply our power,” Pace said. “A bullet goes through skin even faster than white phosphorus does.”

[Ezlivin]

1. Why does the Pentagon label WP as a "chemical weapon" then?

PRESIDENT SADDAM ((HUSSEIN)) MAY HAVE POSSIBLY USED WHITE PHOSPHOROUS (WP) CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST KURDISH REBELS AND THE POPULACE IN ERBIL (GEOCOORD:3412N/04401E) (VICINITY OF IRANIAN BORDER) AND DOHUK (GEOCOORD:3652N/04301E) (VICINITY OF IRAQI BORDER) PROVINCES, IRAQ. THE WP CHEMICAL WAS DELIVERED BY ARTILLERY ROUNDS AND HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS (NO FURTHER INFORMATION AT THIS TIME).

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_22431050_91r.html

[sabra]

2. We are using them against the terrarists, so all is good

:sarcasm:

[Ezlivin]

4. One guess as to who supplied Saddam with WP

If he is allowed to live long enough to testify, many people and corporations in this country should be called as witnesses. Fat chance of that happening, though.

[IA_Seth]

6. Not to defend...

Because I have seen this on a small scale and hate to imagine it being used on human targets...but the difference here may be in its application or means of delivery.

If WP is used in artillery rounds or another anti-personnel means of delivery, and is intentionally targeted on human targets, it would be chemical weapon.

If WP is used in the same form used in WP (willy pete) grenades, it an incendiary screening device.

Just me thinkin aloud here.

[merwin]

8. Wouldn't that still catch anyone near it on fire?

[Ernesto]

29. is not war inherently dangerous?

Willy Peter was commonly used in Vietnam. It's use is "new" only to non-combatants.
Surprise! We also used shotguns & 50 cal. machine guns on personnel.
Folks, ya got to go to war to understand it. (unlike our esteemed chicken hawk leaders)

[MissMarple]

7. Ours must be a special kind of white phosphorus.

Ah huh.

[formercia]

15. Elemental (unburnt) Phosphorus is toxic

and it dissolves in fatty tissue causing long-term effects. The burnt residue is relatively harmless. When combined with water, it forms Phosphoric Acid, a common ingredient in soft drinks. It's the unburnt Phosphorus that remains in the contact burn that causes problems.

[MADem]

20. And FWIW, those helos were BELL COBRAS that we sold to him n/t

[NYC Liberal]

3. Oh, so it kills you SLOWER! Well isn't that just better?

:eyes:

[bnr65432]

9. I was thinking the same thing as I read the aricle

[Judi Lynn]

13. Yeah, it may be slower, but it's infinitely more painful!

And it would absolutely terrorize and break the heart of anyone witnessing its effect on him/her. His/her last awareness would be of unberable agony and dispair.

Something to be proud of, for sure.

[NYC Liberal]

14. No I know, that's my point. I don't know why they act like

it's a "good" thing. I for one would rather be shot in the head and have it over with than be slowly tortured and killed.

[Judi Lynn]

16. I completely agree. There is no justification possible for the use

of this weapon. NONE.

[RaRa]

5. Absolute sick f*cking bastard. n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. We love torture.

We gotta get our groove on SOMEWHERE, fer Bogs sake!

[daleo]

11. Marking and screening = Shaking and Baking?

Sure general.

[tabasco]

21. Screening my ass.

We have smoke grenades and smoke arty rounds that are much better for screening. Saying that we are using WP for screening is a fucking lie, General Pace, and you are a disgrace to the Nation and the Marine Corps. I wish somebody would ask Pace which tactical situation, exactly, did US forces use WP for screening. Watch him fucking tap dance. Pace is a goddamn liar. My boss used to be Pace's boss and hated his fucking guts. Pace is a yes-man and ass-kisser extraodinaire.

[leftchick]

26. thank you for that!

That is exactly how he comes across to me! I only wish some stenographer in the press room had asked him that question. :(

[Vinca]

12. When other people use it , it's a chemical weapon. When we use it

it's a "tool." Other people torture, we "interrogate." Tomato, tomahto, potato, potahto. Now - how to explain the bodies with the flesh melted off. Rummy? Dick? It's right up your alley.

[formercia]

17. The official term for torture

is'Human Resources Evaluation.' That's the term used in official correspondence.

[TroubleMan]

18. Well, there went all my respect for General Pace

I met him a few times when I was in the Marine Corps, and he was a very smart and nice guy - not stuck up at all like most generals were. I liked the guy, and thought he would make a decent chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

He knows what he's saying is bullshit. They teach us in basic training how deadly willie pete is, and that it's not to be used as a weapon. As a General, he knows better, and plus he's a smart guy. I've seen the video where we covered - abosolutey covered - Fallujah in willie pete. That's not illuminating or marking - that's using it as a weapon. I don't know if he is being made to say this or what, but he knows it's bullshit.

So much for JJ DID TIE BUCKLE - he violated at least five of them with that statement right there. As a Marine, he should be ashamed of himself.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Gen. Pace is a psychotic Freeper!

He gave a Cheney-style defense of the war the other day. Only a sick, twisted mind would still adhere to the delusion that we are building a Western style democracy in Iraq. General Pace has such a sick, twisted mind.

Pace is now a defender of crimes against humanity. His defense of the use of white phosphorus is akin to the Nazis claiming that Zyklon-B was strictly used as a delouser, and that if any Jews died in the "brausebad" it was purely accidental.

Pace is a Nazi in Marine uniform!

[BikeWriter]

27. Peter Pace is a prick.

[Emillereid]

22. We were sure worried about the use of WP when Hussein used it against

the Kurds. Isn't that among the accusations against Hussein -- that he used chemical weapons against the Kurds. If I understand the hypocrisy here -- it's OK to use chemical weapons, just not on your own people? Is that how it goes with this bunch?

Check out: http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_22431050_91r.html

<snip>DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
---------------------------------------------------------------------

DOI: (U) 910300.

REQS: (U) T-8C2-2650-01-90.

SOURCE: < (b)(1) sec 1.3(a)(4) >< (b)(7)(D) >



SUMMARY: IRAQ HAS POSSIBLY EMPLOYED PHOSPHOROUS
CHEMICAL
WEAPONS AGAINST THE KURDISH POPULATION IN AREAS ALONG THE
IRAQI-TURKISH-IRANIAN BORDERS. KURDISH RESISTANCE IS LOSING ITS
STRUGGLE AGAINST SADDAM HUSSEIN'S FORCES. KURDISH REBELS AND
REFUGEES' PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS AND PERCEPTIONS ARE PROVIDED.

TEXT: 1. DURING APRIL 1991, THE SOURCE TELEPHONED
BROTHER (SUBSOURCE) < (b)(1) sec 1.3(a)(4) >< (b)(7)(D) >

. DURING THIS PHONE CONVERSATION,
THE SOURCE WAS ABLE TO OBTAIN THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION ON THE
PRESENT SITUATION IN KURDISH AREAS ALONG THE IRAQI-TURKISH-IRANIAN
BORDERS --
A. IRAQ'S POSSIBLE EMPLOYMENT OF PHOSPHOROUS CHEMICAL
WEAPONS -- IN LATE FEBRUARY 1991, FOLLOWING THE COALITION FORCES'
OVERWHELMING VICTORY OVER IRAQ, KURDISH REBELS STEPPED UP THEIR
STRUGGLE AGAINST IRAQI FORCES IN NORTHERN IRAQ. DURING THE BRUTAL
CRACKDOWN THAT FOLLOWED THE KURDISH UPRISING, IRAQI FORCES LOYAL
TO
PRESIDENT SADDAM ((HUSSEIN)) MAY HAVE POSSIBLY USED WHITE
PHOSPHOROUS (WP) CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST KURDISH REBELS AND THE
POPULACE IN ERBIL (GEOCOORD:3412N/04401E) (VICINITY OF IRANIAN
BORDER) AND DOHUK (GEOCOORD:3652N/04301E) (VICINITY OF IRAQI
BORDER) PROVINCES, IRAQ. THE WP CHEMICAL WAS DELIVERED BY
ARTILLERY ROUNDS AND HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS (NO FURTHER INFORMATION
AT
THIS TIME). APPARENTLY, THIS TIME IRAQ DID NOT USE NERVE GAS AS
THEY DID IN 1988, IN HALABJA (GEOCOORD:3511N/04559E), IRAQ,
BECAUSE
THEY WERE AFRAID OF POSSIBLE RETALIATION FROM THE UNITED STATES
(U.S.) LED COALITION. THESE REPORTS OF POSSIBLE WP CHEMICAL WEAPON
ATTACKS SPREAD QUICKLY AMONG THE KURDISH POPULACE IN ERBIL AND
DOHUK. AS A RESULT, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF KURDS FLED FROM THESE
TWO AREAS AND CROSSED THE IRAQI BORDER INTO TURKEY. IN RESPONSE TO
THIS, TURKISH AUTHORITIES ESTABLISHED SEVERAL REFUGEE CENTERS
ALONG
THE TURKISH-IRAQI BORDER. THE SITUATION OF KURDISH REFUGEES IN
THESE CENTERS IS DESPERATE -- THEY HAVE NO SHELTERS, FOOD, WATER,
AND MEDICAL FACILITIES (NO FURTHER INFORMATION AT THIS TIME).
B. IRAQI GOVERNMENT ULTIMATUM TO KURDS REBELS AND
REFUGEES -- ON OR AROUND 2 APRIL 1991, RADIO BAGHDAD ISSUED AN
ULTIMATUM TO THE KURDISH REBELS AND REFUGEES WHO FLED IRAQ AND
SETTLED IN REFUGEE CENTERS IN TURKEY. IN THE BROADCAST, IRAQI
AUTHORITIES WARNED THE KURDS THEY HAD 10 DAYS TO RETURN TO THEIR
TOWNS AND VILLAGES, OR ELSE FACE COMPLETE ANNIHILATION. THE IRAQI
BROADCAST ALSO PROMISED THE KURDS THAT NO RETALIATORY ACTION WOULD
BE TAKEN AGAINST THEM IF THEY WOULD COMPLY WITH THIS ORDER (NO
FURTHER INFORMATION AT THIS TIME).
C. KURDISH REBELS ARE LOSING IN THEIR STRUGGLE AGAINST
SADDAM HUSSEIN'S FORCES -- KURDISH REBELS WHO WERE FIGHTING IN
NORTHERN IRAQ WERE FORCED TO WITHDRAW INTO TURKEY BY TROOPS LOYAL
TO SADDAM HUSSEIN. POOR ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP AND LACK OF
HEAVY WEAPONS, AMMUNITION, AND SUPPLIES ARE THE PRIMARY CAUSES OF
KURDISH LATEST DOWNFALL. THE ONLY GROUP CURRENTLY FIGHTING SADDAM
HUSSEIN'S FORCES IN NORTHERN IRAQ IS THE "PESHMERGEH" (FRONT
WARRIORS). HOWEVER, THIS GROUP IS ARMED ONLY WITH SMALL ARMS SUCH
AS M-60 MACHINE-GUNS, AK-47 RIFLES AND UNKNOWN TYPES OF PISTOLS
AND
REVOLVERS.
D. KURDISH REBELS' EXPECTATION OF RECEIVING HELP FROM
U.S. LED COALITION FORCE -- THE KURDISH RESISTANCE'S DECISION TO
RISE UP AND FIGHT HUSSEIN'S FORCES WAS TRIGGERED BY THE
OVERWHELMING MILITARY POWER DISPLAYED BY THE COALITION DURING
"DESERT STORM" AND THE PROPAGANDA BROADCASTS OF VOICE OF AMERICA.
KURDISH REBELS AND REFUGEES REALLY BELIEVED THAT EVENTUALLY THE
COALITION FORCE WOULD COME TO HELP THEM IN THEIR FIGHTING AGAINST
IRAQI FORCES. AFTER LEARNING OF U.S. PRESIDENT BUSH'S "STAY OUT OF
IRAQ INTERNAL AFFAIRS" POLICY, KURDISH REBELS AND REFUGEES FELT AS
THEY WERE SET UP AND LET DOWN BY THE COALITION FORCE (NO FURTHER
INFORMATION AT THIS TIME).
E. SADDAM HUSSEIN'S REASON NOT TO USE CHEMICAL WEAPONS
AGAINST THE U.S. LED COALITION FORCE DURING "DESERT STORM" -- THE
GENERAL PERCEPTION AMONG THE KURDS IS THAT PRESIDENT HUSSEIN DID
NOT USE CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST THE COALITION BECAUSE HE WAS
AFRAID THAT ALLIES WOULD RETALIATE BY USING BATTLEFIELD NUCLEAR
WEAPONS (NO FURTHER INFORMATION AT THIS TIME).

COMMENTS: 1. (SOURCE COMMENT) - IRAQ USED WP IN ERBIL
AND DOHUK BECAUSE THEY WANTED THE KURDS TO PANIC AND FLEE FROM THE
AREA.
<snip>

[tsetaerg]

23. this isn't a game..people are dying

as much as i hate this war and want an end to it!!
I believe we don't handcuff our forces by not using every means
we have. The general is on one path and I'm on another but our goal is the same to bring the troops home and end this war.

[cyr330]

24. war crimes

It makes me think of Hideki Tojo.

[strizi64]

25. Cynical Bastard

“A bullet goes through skin even faster than white phosphorus does.”


How low can they go:puke: .... Just disgusting and a shame to all of us

[EFerrari]

28. And those really were just showers, you motherless bastard. n/t

[hippiechick]

30. Incendiary ? And it's used on HUMANS ?

That very word is enough reason for outrage !

He's saying, despite Musical Semantics to the contrary, that WP does horrible things to its victims - but not because it causes a 'chemical reaction' like mustard gas, because it incineratesthem - and kills them more slowly than a bullet - which must be oh so fun to experience.


:scared: :wtf: