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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 12:35 PM
Original message
BBC: Brazilian's visa expired in 2003
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 01:33 PM by Spider Jerusalem
The student visa of Jean Charles de Menezes expired two years before he was shot by police, the Home Office says.

Officials said they wished to end speculation over his immigration status but added it was "not intended" to influence any investigations.

A passport stamp apparently giving him indefinite leave to remain "was not in use" on that date, added officials.

Mr Menezes, 27, was shot at Stockwell Tube station by officers suspecting him of being linked to the London bombings.


more...
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Links here
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 12:39 PM by cal04
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great quote by a terrific man!
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6000eliot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh, well then he deserved to be shot eight times for no reason.
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Tom Bombadil Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. No he didn't.
But this might explain why he ran away from armed police.
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6000eliot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. True
I was being sarcastic there.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. 1. They were weaing plain clothes.
2. They had stalked him from his front door, to the local bus, on a bus ride to the tube (where plain clothes observed him talking to his neighbors), off the bus, and only there started brandishing weapons at him, again, in plain clothes. If they thought he had a bomb, they should have stopped him long before he got on the bus!
3. His family is saying that they were just told by the police department that he was NOT running.
4. And even if he was running, if he got scared and ran into the tube--they had let him onto a bus, a man whom they were surveilling because they said they suspected he had a bomb! (suspected on the mere basis of his apartment building address)--then they let him in the tube--and only then did they subdue him and then shot him seven times pointblank in the BACK OF THE HEAD.

I've read all the eyewitness accounts, and other news articles. The police story is B.S. It makes no sense.

This was either a racist lynching, or a deliberate execution for a reason that we don't yet know.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Some people
are going to ride their defense of the indefensible to the grave. I've given up arguing the facts of this case. There is no convincing this bunch of the obvious.

de Menezes was a dead man the moment he walked out the wrong door not being white enough.
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Law enforcement enthusiasts can't bring themselves to admit
That what happened here was the race-based execution of an innocent man.

But they need not worry. I'm sure that these officers will be held every bit as responsible as the perpetrators of the Bloody Sunday massacre.
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Tom Bombadil Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Point by point
They were weaing plain clothes.
So. Anyone with a working knowledge of London knows that only armed police, uniformed or not, would pursue someone into an underground station in broad daylight. And at a time when 4 would be bombers were still at large and the tube is a particularly nervy place.

If they thought he had a bomb, they should have stopped him long before he got on the bus!
Perhaps the police didn't think he was a bomb suspect until he ran away from them into the underground. During the bus journey the police may just have been following a loose lead.

His family is saying that they were just told by the police department that he was NOT running.
Are you actually disputing that there was any pursuit at all?

I agree that the 7 or 8 headshots is the most distressing part of this whole story, I can't understand that at all.

Talk of racist lynchings is crazy. Do you think London is Mississippi or something.


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Kraklen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. He ran away from terrorists.
At least that's what I'd have thought they were.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. Then why did British customs let him back in the country recently?
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 01:46 PM by downstairsparts
Did they let him back in on another tourist visa?

Recall that he went back to Brazil recently for about 8 months. If his student visa had expired two years ago, then British customs must have had some kind of current document to let him re-enter the country this last time. They don't allow Brazilians with expired papers in the country illegally, so far as I know.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but none of the excuses the authorities in Britain have made up to cast aspersions on de Menezes, place him somehow in a guilty category, has been found to be true. I suspect this latest lie is a another such attempt.

I wonder what lie they will come up with next that will be debunked as well.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. On immigration issues the buck stops with the Home Office
If he managed to fool immigration staff with a fake immigration stamp then that's what it would have been intended for.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. But customs is the one that gives you the stamp
when you enter Britain. I know I have entered that country dozens of times with an American passport. And they look you up one side and down the other.

I don't think I know what a fake immigration stamp is. You cannot show up in a country with a pre-prepared stamp in your passport or on your visa stamp to get in the country, fake or otherwise.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Visa is not required to enter the country as a visitor/tourist.
For nationals of most countries, anyway (including Brazil).

The only requirement is a passport; you need a visa, work certificate or other approval to stay longer than six months, though (which he apparently didn't have).
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. But the story says his student visa had expired
I don't see where it says that he had overstayed the six months tourist stamp you get automatically when you enter the country. This does not seem to me to be the accusation they're making.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. What they're saying is...
that his student visa (enabling him to stay beyond 6 months) was expired, and that there was a forged stamp on his passport (that apparently passed a cursory inspection).
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. That's what they're saying, but ...
I'd like to see a picture of that supposed fake stamp,and judge for myself. I certainly do not take their word on this, if the succession of lies they've told up until today about de Menezes is any indication.

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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sure...
--Officials said they wished to end speculation over his immigration status but added it was "not intended" to influence any investigations.--

Here is what they will say:

"If he wasn't there on an expired Visa, he wouldn't have gotten himself killed."

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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. Locking - duplicate from Monday
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