Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

IRA will end all activity, says statement

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
corksean Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:51 AM
Original message
IRA will end all activity, says statement
A statement from the IRA says it will end all activity and persue its aims by politics only from 4pm today.

The statement says the armed campaign will be ended from 4pm. All IRA units have been ordered to dump arms.

The Taoiseach "has been informed of the gist of the IRA statement and is broadly happy with what he has heard", a Government source said.

The IRA statement today will challenge Irish republicans and nationalists, Sinn Fin president Gerry Adams declared.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/story.asp?j=15093...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. It appears they realize that terrorism, even home-grown

and of long standing will not get much sympathy and support anymore.

And might get a premptory bullet in the head.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. Genuine terrorists will lie low
They read the same stuff and think along the same way. It makes sense for "genuine terrorists" (awkward phrasing, I know) to lie low now. That way they themselves can tell if any terror attacks are synthetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, I was wondering about how London bombing would affect that.
I was even tempted to ask if people would be as upset about the bombings had they been IRA instead of whoever these guys were.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. The war is over
Just not the one people are still dying in :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Not sure what you mean.......
the IRA (and other paramilitary groups on both sides of the conflict in Ireland) are still killing each other and civilians at the moment.

We just haven't had a particularly big bomb for a while.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greeby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Sorry
It was something of an Iraq reference.

The killing each other part I have no problem with. If two violent groups want to kill each other, then they can have at it, just leave the rest of us alone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CONN Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. Who has the IRA been killing lately?
They've had and honored a cease fire since 1997. How can you make such a baseless statement. The modern IRA came into being when in the late 60s the police (RUC) allowed loyalist to burn homes in nationalist areas. The British Army was deployed and there solution was to intern nationalists/ catholics. The Irish have been oppressed by the English for a long time. Sometime an armed resistence is necessary when violence is being used by those in power.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. There are IRA splinter groups
The Real IRA for instance have opposed the 1997 Good Friday agreement. They were behind the notorious 1998 Omagh bombing which resulted in 29 deaths and hundreds of injuries, and a number of subsequent attacks in England, including a rocket propelled grenade attack on the headquarters of MI6 in 2000 and a car-bomb attack at the BBC in 2001.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CONN Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Not the same thing...
And what is this splinter thing???
Would you consider David McVeigh and his ex-Army buddies a splinter group of the US Army?????????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #50
59. You mean Timothy McVeigh
And your analogy doesn't hold water because McVeigh's purported reason for the OK City bombing was his anti-US government sentiment; the US Army has never, to my knowledge, been anti-US or carried out anti-US attacks. In other words he didn't share a common goal with the US Army as the IRA and its factions do.

There are three IRA splinter groups: the Real IRA, which split in 1997 over the Good Friday accord; the Continuity IRA, which left in 1994 over the IRA's first ceasefire; and the Irish National Liberation Army, which gave rise to today's IRA after an ideological split in 1969 (making the IRA itself a splinter group). The IRA has by far the most members and sympathizers.

It's true the IRA has retreated somewhat in its offensive tactics over the last decade. But to say they've not killed anyone since 1997 is a stretch. Remember the August 2001 arrests in Bogota of three IRA operatives who were helping FARC, a Colombian rebel group. The IRA were not there teaching FARC how to weave baskets. They were teaching them how to make bombs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #59
67. An interesting analogy, nevertheless. What if...?
What if a President--*, for instance, declared martial law until there were no more home grown terrorist attacks, school shootings, road rage shootings or bank robberies. What if our Prez linked all such incidents to one homegrown organization, and held up all elections until such activity stopped?

That's the situation in Northern Ireland today. There will always be another reason for the British to remain in charge and not allow people to have their Assembly.

We should all write Tony Blair today and tell him, "No more excuses!"

You say, "Remember the August 2001 arrests in Bogota...?" I'm not going to get into all that, but if you want to read about the lack of evidence in the case, check out the trial observer summary: http://www.bringthemhome.ie/Summary%20of%20Observers%20...

But even if they were over there to help build bombs? Shouldn't they have been brought home to face trial? And why should that be an excuse to stop elections in Northern Ireland? Elections aren't supposed to be used as rewards for good behavior.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Please don't misunderstand
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 07:31 PM by magellan
I'm not defending the actions of the British government in this; the injustices span centuries. All I'm saying is essentially two wrongs don't make a right. I know that's cliche and doesn't address the complexities of the problem (which, sadly and needless to say, isn't unique to N. Ireland). But I do dare to wonder what the situation in N. Ireland would be right now if instead of a Michael Collins they'd had a Gandhi.

Thanks for the link to the trial summary on the IRA/Bogota case, I will read it. I wasn't aware there were discrepancies. And I agree, that's no reason to hold up elections. But it's predictable, isn't it? When all the parties involved have gone out of their way over the years to be unreasonable and reactionary, it just gives the biggest bully on the block an excuse to do it one more time.

edited to say: on second thought, I'm not sure Michael Collins is the right historical figure to pull in contrast to Gandhi. If I'm wrong please name the fellow and forgive me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. They had a Ghandi...
...and the British knocked him down in the streets with a water cannon.

John Hume, who has always campaigned for Catholic civil rights in Northern Ireland, led peaceful protests in the streets, modeled after those of Martin Luther King.

I think it's in the PBS programs "Endgame in Ireland" where they show footage of John Hume approaching a British armored vehicle with his hands up--the British knocked him down in the street with a water cannon. A soaking wet John Hume can be seen getting arrested in a photo at this site: http://www.bloodysundaytrust.org/eduintern.htm (scroll down to the end).

Then there was Bloody Sunday, when the British used live ammo. That pretty much ended what had been up to that point a peaceful, cross-community civil rights movement. http://www.bloodysundaytrust.org /

The loyalist web sites still associate John Hume with terrorism, even though he never sided with the IRA, and the British still spy on him. When I was in Derry, I walked by his house, and my hosts pointed out all the British listening devices aimed in the direction of his house. Disgraceful.

There's a good biography of John Hume at this link:
http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/hum0bio-1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. BTW, Michael Collins signed the treaty...
...along with Arthur Griffith (founder of Sinn Fein) & others, which created the partitioned 6-county statelet of Northern Ireland. To make a long, sad story short, the partition led to civil war in the "Free State," and Michael Collins ended up assassinated.

If the IRA had held out a little longer after 1916, the British might have withdrawn instead of creating their six-county "Protestant State for Protestant People." That's where the current trouble started--pandering to unionists/loyalists who oppose "home rule" and power-sharing with Catholics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Amazing, isn't it...
...that progressives in the U.S. hold erroneous ideas about the IRA based on disinformation doled out by the very "mainstream media" they campaign against on a daily basis?

While The Guardian, The BBC, et al, are reliable sources for information on American politics, they're the equivalent of Fox News when it comes to Ireland. A lot of U.S. activists don't realize that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. Do you hold RTE news in the same regard?
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:04 PM by Anarcho-Socialist
I've never detected any pro-unionist bias in the BBC or The Guardian. I've found RTE to be similar in this way.

If you have evidence to the contrary I'd be happy to look at it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #53
65. RTE's good
(Ireland's Public Service Broadcaster, for those looking in who haven't been to their website: http://www.rte.ie/news /)

They seem to be out of the reach of the British propaganda machine. Also Channel 4 News is good, too: http://www.channel4.com/news /; they did their own investigation of Bloody Sunday before the Saville Inquiry.

BBC and The Guardian aren't so much "pro-unionist" as pro-British. They're quick to do stories on paramilitary violence from all sides, without reporting too much on the root cause of it all (British involvement in Ireland) or collusion between loyalist paramilitary groups and the military police/army/Special Branch.

There's a good article on Media Lens (http://www.medialens.org /) about the mainstream media and the peace process:

Media bias thwarts Northern Ireland peace process
http://www.medialens.org/articles/the_articles/northern...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Robert McCartney was the most recent example n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Link?
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 11:01 PM by Anarcho-Socialist
BTW - name calling is petty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CONN Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. link
It wasn't an IRA operation - just a member who committed a horrible crime and others who did not stop it. The IRA threw them out -- it's hard for them to turn them over to an occupying authority that they do not recognize. Can't do much more because the IRA is critized for carrying out punishments.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/election/story/0,15803,1...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. Thank you n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #54
68. British surveillance
It's also worthwhile to note that the British have amazing surveillance capabilities.

After the recent bombing, we saw how much surveillance they have on the streets of London. They have even more than that in Northern Ireland. That's another reason I'm suspicious every time they blame the IRA for stuff, but never seem to catch anyone.

Remember the bank robbery? They were quick to blame the IRA, but did they ever arrest anyone?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. I've never understood
...what leads anyone to think indiscriminate murder and violence will gain them anything positive. I get the anger and desperation that propels it, but to my mind a cause -- no matter how righteous -- is completely undone by not caring who or how many you have to hurt to succeed.

This is long overdue from the IRA. I'm glad they seem to have finally got some sense knocked into them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well, of course one persons positive may be another's negative

but violence, particulary political and on a large enough scale almost always works.

But not necessarily in the way and to the degree a perpetrator expects.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. And yet the same disturbing mindset keeps coming down the pike
...with the belief that "this time we'll make it work".

I wanted to say in my first post above that there's a real disconnect with humanity going on in these people (Bush**, bin Laden, IRA, etc)...There must be for them to think what they do is justified, or can be rationalized as a "lesser evil". Do they -- or can they be forced to -- get back in touch with reality is the question.

Take the 1998 bombing in Omagh, N. Ireland, for example. The IRA took a major hit with the deaths they caused in that shocking attack and it seemed to me they never recovered the 'moral high ground' they had enjoyed up to then from supporters. Thankfully it's a relative minority who, when faced with the results of such highly publicized wanton acts of murder, will still be willing to throw themselves behind the perpetrators, regardless of the objective.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Allegations of British collusion in Omagh bombing
From World Socialist Web Site www.wsws.org

Excerpt:

"Information has emerged that the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) may have been informed 48 hours prior to the event that the Real IRA was to plant the bomb in the town of Omagh on August 15, 1998 that killed 29 people and injured more than 200. Accusations have also been made that the bombing was the work of a British double agent within the Real IRA....

"...It is not beyond question that a British agent within the Real IRA could have planted the Omagh bomb. Earlier this year more details emerged about the covert activities of the Force Research Unit (FRU), an undercover security operation financed and run by the British state in Northern Ireland for more than two decades.

"The FRU was a terror networkinvolving up to 100 soldiers and double agentsthat organised a series of covert intelligence and military operations and authorised their agents to carry out numerous illegal activities including bomb making, murder, and the shooting of RUC officers. The FRUs chain of command reached into the upper echelons of the British state...The bombing provided a pretext for the Blair government to introduce new laws before a specially recalled Parliament. These laws, which the Prime Minister himself described as being of a draconian and fundamental nature, allow the conviction of someone belonging to a proscribed organisation on the evidence of a senior police officer alone..."

Read the whole article at:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/ire-a04_prn.s...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oldpals Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. Omagh and the IRA
The group that did the bombing in Omagh were not part of the PIRA, the most powerful of the groups. The Real IRA was a splinter group...a breakaway from the main body. The only link between them is the name. Nothing more. The PIRA threatened to take action against the Real IRA because of their attack in Omagh.
When I read of the decommissioning of the IRA I often wonder when we will hear Paisley demanding that the UDA, UFF and UDR do the same.
I distinctly recall the Shankhill butcher...yet here in the US nobody knows who the terror groups are on the protestant side.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #55
60. Mea culpa
We were living in the UK when the Omagh bombing occurred; I should have remembered it was the Real IRA, not the IRA, who were behind it. However, I don't doubt the IRA took action against the Real IRA for it as they threatened. The kneecappings and assassinations continue unabated across all the divides, so I hear.

I'm familiar with the Loyalist terror groups and their actions too. They've done far worse, but the most shocking thing I remember about them from my brief time in the UK was organizing crowds to intimidate Catholic schoolgirls on their way to school down a Loyalist street. They're just as bad as the IRA, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #55
66. "I often wonder when we will hear Paisley..."
Put that thought into a letter to the editor today! :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #42
63. The Omagh bombing in 1998 was not carried out by the IRA.
It was carried out by a splinter group calling itself "the Real IRA".

Needless to say this group broke away from the IRA because it did not subscribe to the peace process. And it was this splinter group that "took a major hit."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Well, it seems to have gotten us possession of a lot of oil in Iraq.
> I've never understood what leads anyone to think indiscriminate
> murder and violence will gain them anything positive.

Well, it seems to have gotten us possession of a lot of oil in Iraq.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. Good point, Tesha.
Admittedly I was thinking more in terms of small rogue political groups. But you're right -- the only difference between al Qaeda, the IRA and our government in the perspective of wreaking indiscriminate violence and murder for profit is ours is institutionalized.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. It's what happens when weapons technology evolves faster
than our intellect.

We'll use any excuse we can find, any text that we can interpret to our liking, to stomp all over each other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Agreed
And sadly it seems the people most suited to scrambling their way over everyone else to the top into "leadership" roles are the ones most given to corruption and ruthless violence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
27. They've been on ceasefire since 1997.
While there has still been loyalist and republican violence in Northern Ireland, the IRA has been on ceasefire since 1997, and has issued a series of statements in support of the Agreement since that time. (See the website CAIN--Conflict Archive on the INternet--for a complete list of IRA statements: http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/organ/ira/statements.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. Ceasefire is different to disarmament
...something the IRA vowed never to do. It definitely remains to be seen whether they'll all abide by this internal call to disarm, or if new violent spinter groups will arise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. It also remains to be seen...
...whether or not the British will pass up yet another opportunity for peace and justice in Ireland.

If the British want to keep republican splinter groups from forming, they'd better restore the Assembly, implement all the police reforms they were supposed to do under the terms of the Agreement, cease military manuevers in South Armagh, acknowledge and apoligize for British army collusion with loyalist paramiliary groups in the murder of human rights lawyers Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson...

...I know I'm leaving out tons of stuff, but you get the picture. The British--as well as the various loyalist paramilitary groups--need to do their parts, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #46
61. Indubitably!
Please don't think I'm letting the British government off the hook. They take turns bungling peace efforts along with the Republicans and the Loyalists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. From the BBC
KEY POINTS OF STATEMENT
All IRA units ordered to dump arms
Members ordered to pursue objectives through "exclusively peaceful means"
Arms to be put beyond use as quickly as possible
Two church witnesses to verify this
Statement followed "honest and forthright" consultation process
Strong support among IRA members for Sinn Fein's peace strategy
There is now an alternative way to achieve goal of united Ireland
"Volunteers must not engage in any other activities whatsoever"


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4720863.stm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. so tell me...

Would the 9/11 perpetrators do this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. So how long will this last?
It would be wonderful to believe that end of Ireland's troubles is here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
powwowdancer Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. the magic question
Indeed. "How long will it last?" is a question that can only be answered by the IRA's craziest members. The PLO has been dogged with exactly the same kind of thing, i.e., they declare a cease fire for negotiations; it takes only one nut who decides to violate it and boom... square one with even more diplomatic "bad blood." This is the major problem inherent in terror organizations. They are only as trustworthy as their weakest link. Terror organizations, by definition, are going to have weak links and to spare. I hope England can cash the rather large "cheque" the IRA has written. I'll definitely be watching this story.

:dem:
powwowdancer out
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. The ceasefire has lasted for a long time now
about 10 years, I think.

It will last as long as the political process continues.

In fact there have been at least two splits from the IRA since its ceasefire announcement: the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA.

Though the RIRA managed to kill many at Omagh, neither of these organisations can rely on the public support that the IRA had. They have almost vanished and are unable to operate in any meaningful way.

This shows that 'terror' is usually a measure of last resort for people - if there is a responsive political process there is no need for terror.

The IRA was originally going to completely decommission its weapons last year, but that was ruined by the Democratic Unionist party demanding photographic evidence of the decommissioning - something that is not in the Good Friday Agreement (under whose terms all this is happening), and something which smacks too much of surrender to the IRA.

The underlying thing here is that the Unionist parties don't want to share power with Catholics (these people are about as rational as the US's religious right) and will do anything to avoid it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
62. A correction...
The PA isn't a terrorist organisation. Are you thinking of Hamas, which did declare a cease-fire (thought it was one-sided because Israel didn't agree to the ceasefire, but informally stuck to it)?

Violet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. It 'll help if Blair allows people to vote.
When Blair was in Basra bragging about bring democracy to Iraq (May 29, 2003)people in Northern Ireland were in the streets protesting for their right to vote. The Blair government cancelled the power-sharing assembly (part of the Agreement) in 2002, over rumors of IRA activity, and imposed Direct Rule. Direct Rule has not been lifted since then.

Not all of the peace process is controlled by the IRA; the British government, the unionists, the various loyalist paramilitary groups, the British Army, and the PSNI (Police Service Northern Ireland) all have roles to play, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. some good news at last... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Another Bill C. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
10. IRA orders end to armed campaign
"The leadership of Oglaigh na hEireann has formally ordered an end to the armed campaign.

"This will take effect from 4pm this afternoon.

"All IRA units have been ordered to dump arms. All Volunteers have been instructed to assist the development of purely political and democratic programmes through exclusively peaceful means. Volunteers must not engage in any other activities whatsoever."

<snip>
"We have invited two independent witnesses, from the Protestant and Catholic churches, to testify to this."

Subscription required:
Irish Republican News
http://republican-news.org/subs
Address: PO Box 160, Galway, Ireland
Fax: 353-1-633-5590
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
keta11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. Did Dumbya and the GOP take credit

Did Dumbya and his GOP fools take credit for this yet?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
12. I hope the loyalist terrorists follow suit
They have no excuse to carry on.

As much as I deplored the PIRA violent campaigns I am hopeful of the future. This is wonderful news.

I hope whatever is Northern Ireland's/North of Ireland's future, that it can be to the mutual agreement and benefit of all its communities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. So....do you reckon this will get a warm welcome from that wanker Paisley?
Somehow I suspect he'll still find reasons to whine on and on and on about complete shit.....

And this is from an Englishman.

P.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Paisley is a wanker
From another Englishman (of Irish descent)

I don't know what some unionists see in him. His only reason to exist was to whine about the IRA, and since they're no longer using violence - what is he going to do? I hope he'll be cast to the fringes and the unionists produce a moderate to work with the SDLP and Sinn Fein.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Paisley is a bigot; his only reason to exist is to whine about Catholics
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 08:36 AM by Jack Rabbit
EDITED for typing

If there were no IRA, he'd have to invent one. Now that they're no longer using violence, he'll find something else even if it sounds like fiction.

I first heard of Ian Paisley in the mid-sixties. He was then the sort of person who could, with a straight face, link Catholicism with Communism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I agree. He's the type to see a conspiracy everywhere
and "Popery" is always the culprit for him. He is stuck in the sixteenth-century and I don't think that I'm exaggerating by saying that.

Had he not baited sectarianist hatred in the late 60s, there might have been no "Troubles" and nationalist-unionist power-sharing might have been in operation for decades already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. That is no exaggeration
Paisley's rhetoric always sounded like it came out of the Thirty Years War. Listening him made one think that Ulster was the one place in Europe stuck in a time warp.

Perhaps you are giving Paisley too much credit (or blame) for the Troubles. Those feelings were there to be exploited by a demagogue. Had that demagogue not been Paisley, it would have been somebody else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. I'm not sure any one else would have been so successful.
Paisley had a special gift for rhetoric that would stir even a rational moderate to action. He can be electrifying when he speaks.

He is also a little bit manic IMHO. I saw a documentary once made by an Englishman who happened to be be Jewish. The film was about Paisley's missionary work in Africa.

The film maker showed Paisley driving about the country in one car, followed by the film crew in another, and as there was no mobile phone network they spoke via cb radio. At one point Paisley wished to get the attention of the film maker and he grabbed the cb radio and boomed into it... "Germany calling... Germany calling..."

Paisley of course thought this was just a witty reference to the film maker's ethnicity. And I really think he was oblivious to any other interpretation being put on it. So in a way I think he has been unaware of just how much damage he has done over the years in Northern Ireland.

I think there is no point in blaming any one individual since there were many people who played a part.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. you got that right
Paisley is nothing but an old red faced bigot from hell. Nothing will appease him until all Catholics in northern Ireland are gone is what I think. Perhaps that wouldn't even be enough. He'd like to off the entire lot if he had his own way.

Paisley needs to go too and badly. :puke:

:kick:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terrible beauty Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
58. Ian Paisley
A number of yrs ago waiting to board a plane Ian Paisley and a gentleman i found out later to be from Bob Jones University were in line before me.Paisley is a very imposing character larger than life in many ways and his booming voice would blow your hat off at ten paces.As catholics were being burned out of their homes on the Falls Rd he was a short distance away on the Shankill Rd exhorting his followers by singing that well known Christian hymn "Fight the good Fight".His political party DUP is now the largest party in Northern Ireland and a cold place for catholics has become even colder.
He represents in the worst way how religion can and has been used to fester hatred and violence exactly what the fundies want for this country.

(Tiocfaidh ar la..gaelic..Our day will come)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. The same could be said for the
whole concept of 'Unionism'. What function does it serve except as being the opposite of 'Nationalism'?

Now that there is agreement about the political setup what are their aims? What reason is there for their existence?

The people desperately need new political parties in the north.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'd like to see people join/form
socialist, green and liberal parties rather than those that use the "unionist" or "nationalist" label. I might have to wait a while though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. There are many political parties in N.I.
We never hear about them in the U.S. media--no surprise there--but there's the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition, the Green Party, and--my personal favorite--the Vote for Yourself Party, among others.

The Women's Coalition was especially frustrated over Blair's cancellation of the Assembly; they finally had a forum to exercise a bit of influence, then Blair comes along and imposes Direct Rule again.

It's hard to keep people interested in politics when elections keep getting cancelled.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Nope.
Last month, I read a quote from him (Belfast Telegraph, I think) saying that he "rejected the IRA statement in advance."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
23. Blair: "A step of unparalleled magnitude"
IRA says armed campaign is over

The IRA has formally ordered an end to its armed campaign and says it will pursue exclusively peaceful means.
In a long-awaited statement, the republican organisation said it would follow a democratic path ending more than 30 years of violence.

The IRA made its decision after an internal debate prompted by Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams' call to pursue its goals exclusively through politics.

Prime Minister Tony Blair said it was a "step of unparalleled magnitude".

"It is what we have striven for and worked for throughout the eight years since the Good Friday Agreement," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4720863.stm

I SAY humbug. NONE of the Good Friday Agreement conditions have been met.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pert_UK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. Nonsense.....THIS is a step of unparalleld magnitude....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. That's what the N.I. Assembly needs...
...the Ministry of Silly Walks! One thing all sides can agree on--John Cleese is a funny man!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Henny Penny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Yes... but not down my street! lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
33.  IRA says armed campaign is over (BBC; implications?)
The IRA has formally ordered an end to its armed campaign and says it will pursue exclusively peaceful means.

In a long-awaited statement, the republican organisation said it would follow a democratic path ending more than 30 years of violence.

Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams said the move was a "courageous and confident initiative" and that the moment must be seized.

Prime Minister Tony Blair said it was a "step of unparalleled magnitude".

"It is what we have striven for and worked for throughout the eight years since the Good Friday Agreement," he said.
(snip)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4720863.stm

(Not sure if it's ok to editorialize here, so I won't, except to say that when "real" terrorists are backing off, the implications are curious. Those people do the same thinking re current terror events that everybody else does, after all.)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
35. It's time for the DUP to deliver now...
Paisley and DUP can still miss this unprecedented opportunity. Still, I am so glad that PIRA issued the dump arms order.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
52. don't they make this announcement about each year ?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CoolOnion Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #52
69. They've never made one like this.
Since the 1997 ceasefire, the IRA has issued statements in support of the Good Friday Agreement; they've also issued statments reminding everyone that they are in compliance with the IICD (Independent International Commission on Decommissioning).

The British/loyalists always treat every new statement with suspicion, so it's all the more amazing that the IRA has issued this latest statement that the Army Council has called on all units to stand down.

This is historic. I hope the loyalsits/unionists/military police/British government/British army will really hold up their end of the Agreement this time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jayctravis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
56. It's a horrible horrible thing that the innocent man got shot...
But essentially the British police showing that they're not afraid to shoot first if they believe they are protecting civilians probably is a bigger deterrent to "wannabe" terrorists (meaning those who might not be actual suicide bombers) than Bush's illegal war where he has killed thousands of innocent civilians. Mind you I'm not justifying a summary execution, but this is the kind of balls it takes to survive in a world where terrorism has become the thing to do if you're unhappy with an ideology.

Jay Mohr in his standup did a funny and brutally honest take on how any potential aircraft terrorist in the current atmosphere probably would be swarmed by civilians with ball-point pens..."I have a bomb!" (cl-click cl-click click click click click click...)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. The IRA never went in for suicide bombing
And the "mainstream" IRA has been out of the terror business for some time. Don't give the murder of a Brazilian electrician any credit for this announcment. As a Texan, the actions of trigger-happy racists is all too familiar.

Ian Paisley is already whining--when has he ever stopped? But he'll go to his reward soon & Sinn Fein will remain as a political party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Oct 18th 2017, 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC