Officials prepare for visit by Minutemen

[Judi Lynn]

July 10, 2005, 12:42AM

Officials prepare for visit by Minutemen
Law enforcers discuss ways to keep peace when militia hunts for illegal immigrants
By MELANIE MARKLEY
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

Law enforcement officials in Houston began meeting Saturday to discuss strategies for keeping the peace when the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps sends observers to the city in October to patrol for illegal immigrants.

"The city of Houston is a very diverse city," said Houston Police Chief Harold Hurtt. "There is a great deal of harmony here, and we are not going to stand by and let some outside agency or organization come in and disrupt that harmony. We will do whatever is necessary to keep the peace in the city of Houston."

The Minutemen, a civilian organization initially set up to patrol the Mexican border, has announced plans to send observers to watch and videotape day laborers.

At the same time, immigration rights organizations have announced that they will form an organization to counteract the Minutemen.

U.S. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Houston, who organized Saturday's meeting of law enforcement officials, said she is concerned that the Minutemen's plans to expand their activities to a diverse city such as Houston could become confrontational.
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3259740
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[ConfuZed]

1. You either have immigration laws or you don't

but you can't go after certain groups and ignore the others because you are afraid that they will scream racism.

[IndianaGreen]

2. The only squatters in Texas are the Americans!

The US stole Texas from Mexico, so it seems to me that the Freeper Corps, which is what the misnamed "Minuteman" really is, should pack their backs and go back to whatever inbred community they came out from.

[ConfuZed]

3. Mexico ceeded control of Texas among other states in 1848

when they signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo the US didnt steal crap .

[IndianaGreen]

4. Just like Cuba "rented" Guantanamo to the US

except that it was a pre-condition to independence, together with the odious Platt Amendment which gave the US the right to intervene in Cuban affairs.

Treaties signed at the point of the gun are not very nice!

You need to learn the real history of the United States, not that rosy stuff they indoctrinate people in our schools.

[Igel]

16. Like the treaties with the Japanese and the Germans?

Many treaties are at the point of a gun. Frequently there is more than one gun involved.

And many "squatters" were invited in.

[panzerfaust]

24. Gently Now

And how is it that there were any "Mexicans" at all?

Seems like there were already people living in that land when the Spanish arrived: they killed most, enslaved the rest, and took the land.

All in the name of the Christian God of love and mercy, of course.

Don't see where the Mexicans have any basis for complaining of their later loss of the land they stole to the Texicans, who were simply tougher thieves.

Remember Freedom's Cry: "Remember the Alamo!!"

Might also want to remember that the reason Texas was in revolt was because Mexico prohibited slavery: which the Texicans wanted.

Freedom ain't free.

Nor is it for everyone.

While all animals are created equal, it is best to remember that pigs are more equal than others.

Ah George, if you could only see us now.

[Judi Lynn]

5. They've found a group of hard-working people they can torment

with impunity, as it seems.

Some deviants are unable to control themselves when presented with an opportunity to bring hardship to someone or something more helpless than they.

If they wanted to find a way to while away those empty hours, they could take a second job picking lettuce like some migrants do, so their slovenly freep wives could stay home close to the stove, just the way Rick Santorum recommends!

[VegasWolf]

19. Exactly, the red-necks have found a quasi-legal reason for hate crimes.nt

[VegasWolf]

18. Yes, and the Spanish stole it from the Native Americans at gun point. nt

[TankLV]

34. Ouch!

That hurt!

What's that about "alls fair in love and WAR"?

And, "to the winner go the spoils".

And, "the victor gets to write the history".

There was/is nothing fair about it at all.

All the just can do is try to sort it all out and bring some semblance of justice to what we find, no matter the origin.

But I guess rules are meant to be followed by only certain people.

Shhhh. Also don't mention the reason they are called "illegal" in the first place! Shhhhh.

It burns my Mexican relatives no end who had to jump thru hoops to be here, that others feel they can cheat the system and still demand respect.

And my Ukrainian, Jewish, Black, Indian, Gay, etc. relatives, too.

You see, when anybody talks about another group of "those people", they are talking about my family. Nobody ever asks those who immigrated here legally what their thoughts are on the subject. That would put a crimp in their pre-conceived responses.

[IndianaGreen]

40. The Spanish, unlike the English, married the conquered Indians

which is why a significant proportion of the population in Latin America is either indigenous, or of mixed blood. It is no accident that the elites are all European-blooded.

[QC]

42. Many English also married Indians.

I wouldn't be here otherwise.

[jukes]

7. RAZIZTS!

[sleipnir]

6. Best thing is to arrest them, hold them for 48 hours and then release.

Have a nice couple days in jail, maybe they'll meet some friends and change their tune.

[sled]

8. "There is a great deal of harmony here"???

Surely he's not talking about Houston, Texas...Baghdad West...

[Horse with no Name]

11. Not sure what you mean by that

but in any event, it seems very close to being an ethnic slur.

[sled]

28. That doesn't surprise me...

Ethnic, smethnic...

Not sure how you twisted that, out of what I wrote, but in any event, it doesn't surprise me. Just love how the self-anointed PC police troll these discussions, while kidding themselves, with their holier than thou attitudes, that somehow they're forcing the rest of us, to toe the line. Sort of like when Awnuld called our "leadership" a bunch of "girlie men", & some of the PC police got their panties, in a bunch, when, in fact, the only ones who felt slighted, were those with whom the statement hit home. Girlie is, as girlie does, I guess...if the shoe fits, wear it.

As to my other posts being anything remotely suggesting an "ethnic slur", I think the numbers speak for themselves..."kumbaya", yeah right...peddle your race-baiting BS papers elsewhere, I'm not buying, the sludge you're selling...

"Citywide Uniform Crime Statistics 1985-2004"
http://www.houstontx.gov/police/cs/pdfs/ucr/cs_ucr_1985to04_summary.pdf

"Hate Crime Statistics-2003"
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/03hc.pdf

"All other crime statistics from the Houston Police Dept."
http://www.houstontx.gov/police/stats.htm

[AwareOne]

9. 1,000,000 illegal immigrants enter the U.S. each year

the government will do little to stop it because the exploitation of the immigrants benefits wealthy Americans, developers, ranchers, farmers, construction companies etc. A true grassroots organization is formed to bring attention to the problem and they get nothing but grief here and are labeled "right wing fringe group". I think people are not being realistic about this problem. If you were out there looking for a job in the labor market, you might feel like the Minute Men were your allies.

[skooooo]

10. Shouldn't take justice into your own hands...

The way to fix the situation is to fix the situation through the legal channels. Having people form militia groups for "good" reasons will surely lead to others forming militia groups for "bad" reasons.

It's just a bad idea, period.

[earth mom]

15. Well said. This is a problem that effects everyone and...

what is happening is EXPLOITATION by employers of both Illegal Immigrants and American Workers. Wages are lower for EVERYONE because of the influx of immigrants and that is a fact. However, I don't feel patrolling cities is the way to go about the problem-that strikes me as cruel and wrong. There needs to be a better solution which starts with stricter border control.

Since I know my post will be a target, let me emphatically state that this issue is NOT about racism as many want to paint it (and me for which I take high offense to), but rather about protecting the people who are citizens or legal U.S. immigrants who should have the FIRST opportunity for jobs with decent pay.

Moreover, if the U.S. wants open immigration, it should be for ALL people of the ENTIRE WORLD. It is not fair or just to have an open border for one group of people and not for all people who want to come here.

[Judi Lynn]

20. Are you not aware that people from all over Latin America

come across the border between Mexico and Texas,New Mexico,Arizona, and California?

They haven't been "just Mexicans" for a long time.

Those jobs picking lettuce, fruit, etc. have been there forever. Most people would prefer not to spend their days in the blazing sun, sometimes with no drinking water or toilets available: it's "hard work," just like _{George W. Bush's} job.

[earth mom]

21. I grew up in Southern California

I well know what's going on. Again, please do NOT frame this as an issue that is about racism. It's not. It's about exploitation of workers. If the U.S. wants free borders then open them up to ALL-TO THE ENTIRE WORLD. There are people living in extreme poverty in Asia, Africa and elsewhere who would love a job-any job-here. Don't be so sure that people living in this country wouldn't do the jobs that you describe if they were paid fairly and appropriately for a decent and honest days work.

Your beef is with those who are doing the exploiting-NOT ME.

[QC]

32. "if they were paid fairly and appropriately"

Good point. That's the part that the Americans-Won't-Do-These-Jobs Crowd always leaves out.

[6 sack fiber]

38. I've always wonderedif one million Mexican lawyers came here illegally

decided to live 10 people to an apartment and work for the big law firms for 10K a year - would the newly unemployed former 80K a year American citizen lawyers want to hear how "we can't get Americans to do law work anymore"?

That's one thing that's troubling here, so many teachers, government workers, cube dwellers - they will never face downward wage pressure due to an oversupply of cheap illegal labor. Try pointing out the economic aspects of an oversupply of cheap labor and the only retort is the "your'e a racist" canard.

Not everyone I grew up with wanted to go to college and work in an office. Used to be cement finishers, dry wallers, etc made a decent middle class wage - not the case any longer.

Somehow in states like North Dakota where there aren't many undocumented workers - we manage to employ American citizens as landscapers, restauraunt workers, hotel maids etc - the difference between North Dakota and Texas is that employers don't have a ready supply of cheap illegal labor-- so they have to offer comparitively higher wages to attract citizen workers - while areas with an abundance of illegals continue their race to the bottom.

But hey as long as white middle class people don't have to cut their own lawns - it's all good.

[QC]

41. You have hit the bleeding heart of the matter.

Unrestricted immigration is a class issue, and people's class statuses usually mirror their positions on it.

It would probably be a good thing if The Powers That Be decided to bring in cheap, undocumented labor to do white-collar work--then a lot of people would suddenly understand the nature of the class system.

[Pystoff]

43. Good post

I was one of the lawn cutters for those rich assholes awhile back.

Untill illegal aliens came in droves and made my job obsolete unless I was willing to work 10+ hours a day for slave wages ($5.15 worker replacing my oh so expensive $8 hr ass). Race to the bottom indeed...didn't know my job was one of those jobs americans weren't willing to work. Right to work state and out on my butt I go with no excuse required by my boss to do so.

My proof of my replacement being an illegal alien?

Never heard of a green card when I asked but sure had a SS card. Big business in the town west of me in illegal SS cards with legal immigrants running the operations and probably human smuggling as well.

Either the government enforces the laws of the public has to.

[sled]

44. Thanks...

for speaking for the working class. You're right on point, but unfortunately, the party "leadership", & their mouthpieces, can't get past their well rehearsed choruses, long enough to hear the sound of the American blue collars, asking for a little help defending the country.

[DBoon]

23. The CIO organizing drives of the 1930's

suceeded after the early 20th century influx of immigration had been stemmed for a generation. I think large scale immigration is one tool used to lower wages and undercut labor organization.

Of course, limiting immigration from Ireland and Italy is much easier than limiting immigration from a large country we share a border with. What worked for labor organizing in the early 20th century - stopping immigration entirely - isn't even possible now.

Allowing illegal immigration provides a cheap, docile (=afraid to be deported) workforce. Harassing these immigrants keeps them that way, and lets some native-born folks channel their resentment towards a convenient target (god forbid that the members of the minutemen would ever organize against corporate exploitation of the workforce)

[earth mom]

26. Not sure, but wasn't there a branch of the minutemen

who were going after the corporate masters? I think it was posted here on DU a few weeks back.

What I take issue with is our government which allows for businesses-large and small-to exploit people-citizens or not-so that wages are at the point that more and more people in this country are struggling to make ends meet and are now living as the working poor. The middle class is disappearing no doubt about that. Isn't this something that we should all care about?

[DBoon]

22. I'd have more sympathy if they actually did target the beneficiaries

They should go after the "wealthy Americans, developers, ranchers, farmers, construction companies etc."

Will they? I doubt it. This would mean they would have to harass people with money and power. It's much easier to harass immigrants who have neither.

[QC]

33. A few days ago there was a thread where this group said it was planning

to videotape and report the people who hire undocumented workers.

It got the usual responses.

It made me chuckle--the same people who always say Uncle Sam should go after the employers were condemning this group for...going after the employers.

[6 sack fiber]

39. In the end, if sucessful don't both sides end up at the same place?

If they go after the employers and employers stop hiring undocumented workers - don't the workers end up back in their home countries and employers end up paying higher wages to attract citizen workers?

[TankLV]

35. Of course, forgetting the FACT that they are a "right wing fringe group"

for a second and all!

[Horse with no Name]

12. I hope the "law takes the law into it's own hands"

Surely Houston has stalking laws, and I would think if they were following citizens of Houston (legal or otherwise) around that it would qualify as stalking.
What about privacy? This is insanity and it needs to be stopped.

[BrotherBuzz]

13. Where were these panty-waist wussies during the summer?

Was it too hot to patrol for illegal migrant workers, or were they just too busy managing their own crews of illegals on their own farms?

[Zorra]

14. Recently, I talked to some folks that were complaining that undocumented

laborers were demanding $100 and sometimes as much as $200 a day, under the table, for their services. A few of these folks were small contractors in various fields that I spoke with personally and at length, one of whom occasionally hires undocumented workers at $10 an hour under the table. He said that although many of the undocumented workers were demanding $100 or more per day, he absolutely refused to pay them more than $10 an hour. Often times, he said, the amount of cash requested for services by individual undocumented workers or "representatives" of groups of undocumented workers depended on the type of work, the physical difficulty of the work, and any special skills that were required to perform the work.

One of the contractors drove me past a place where about 10 individuals (that he told me were undocumented workers) were sitting. He said that individuals sit there everyday and wait for employers to come by and offer them work. He said that sometimes these individuals "represented" groups of undocumented workers that were seeking employment.

This was not anywhere near Houston, and I have no idea if the area that I "investigated" was unique, or if this was a common occurence in other areas also.

[Bridget Burke]

45. What did the workers say?

Did you try to get their side of the story?

So many here use the "labor" excuse in their screeds against undocumented workers. That is, US workers are being undercut by those who will work for so much less. If your story is true, some of the undocumented are banding together & asking for better pay. Isn't this a good thing?

Mexican & Mexican-American workers have a long history of fighting for their rights. Surely, you've heard of Cesar Chavez. How about Ricardo Flores Magon? His brother Enrique also contributed.

www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/FF/ffl28.html

www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/MM/pqmhe.html

[Igel]

17. At least the talk about a bloodbath and

brownshirted troops assaulting and lynching immigrants seems lacking this time 'round.

A step in the right direction, me thinks.

[Voltaire99]

25. We'd be better off with immigrants than these American Nazis.

Let's arrange a deal with Mexico: our right wing scum for your dedicated workers.

[Vuem]

27. In Houston? Sounds like the monkeys are running the monkey show

They want to stop illegal immigration so they leave the border area, go to, what, the 4th largest city in the country, and think they're going to find II wearing sandwich boards stating, "I'm an illegal"?

Idiots.

[Judi Lynn]

31. They may discover their careers hunting immigrants out in the country

were somewhat easier for them.

[Solar]

29. what I fear

What I fear is that this roving band of vigilantes is going to romp around town accusing every Hispanic looking person of being an illegal immigrant. Violence can't be far off.

[sled]

30. Franklin D. Roosevelt, Inaugural Address, March 4, 1933...

"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance."

[TankLV]

36. Bingo!

There, correct and to the point.

[sled]

37. Kick

[Bridget Burke]

46. The Minutemen will be watched....

From an earlier Chronicle story:

"For every Minuteman patrolling, we will have at least 10 people patrolling them," said Maria Jimenez, a longtime local activist now associated with the Central American Resource Center, or CRECEN.

Jimenez and CRECEN leader Teodoro Aguiluz threatened to file a lawsuit if they observe the Minutemen doing anything illegal.

"We will respond to your organization with our organization," Jimenez said to the Minutemen. "We're not shy about it."

www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3258963

Besides, the wusses aren't even coming until October. Guess they can't stand the heat.