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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:53 PM
Original message
US military helicopter crashes in Afghanistan
KABUL (Reuters) - A U.S. Chinook helicopter crashed west of the city of Asadabad during an anti-guerrilla operation in eastern Afghanistan on Tuesday and the status of those aboard was not immediately known, the U.S. military said.

The twin-rotor helicopter was transporting troops into an area in support of U.S. forces, the military said in a statement. "The cause of the crash and status of survivors is unknown at this time," it said.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050628/ts...
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. CNN said it was a CH-47?
I think that's what I heard :shrug:
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's the Same Thing
the CH-47 is a Chinook Helicopter. Mostly for troop transport. Can carry quite a few troops. This does not sound good. Story I saw said they called for the "wreckage extraction" team, which may mean that there are survivors (hopefully).

You don't think it is possible that Chimpy's little excursion to Iraq has left our forces in Afghanistan so limited that the Taliban is making a comeback??

Wonder if he'll mention this tonight!!
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. thanks...
:)
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Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Sadly, the Taliban *is* making a comeback.
Fighting a Hard, Half-Forgotten War
U.S. Forces Surprised By Taliban's Resilience In Remote Afghanistan
By N.C. Aizenman
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, June 22, 2005; A01

QALAT, Afghanistan -- When Spec. Nick Conlon and the other members of his infantry battalion learned they would be deployed to the Afghan province of Zabol this spring, many expected their worst enemy to be boredom. In preparation, Conlon stocked up on more than 20 DVDs, such as "Alien vs. Predator," "X-Men" and "Daredevil."

But in the three months since the battalion set up camp in this isolated, mountainous region of southeastern Afghanistan, Conlon has not had time to watch a single movie. Instead, the battalion has found itself at the center of a heated though somewhat forgotten war that is still underway 3 1/2 years after the extremist Taliban militia was ousted from power.

The Taliban forces, estimated at anywhere from 2,000 to 10,000 fighters, cannot hold territory against U.S. forces. But the battalion in Zabol has been attacked more than 10 times since March. During one bloody seven-hour clash in Zabol in May and in a series of pitched firefights across the south and east since then, the Taliban has revealed itself to be a hardy, resilient foe equipped with machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.

U.S. and Afghan military leaders contend that most of the battles are products of an aggressive campaign they launched this spring to force Taliban fighters from their hideouts. In Zabol, the fighters appear wary of taking on U.S. troops directly after suffering heavy casualties, but they continue to ambush U.S. patrols with gunfire and improvised explosives -- such as one that claimed the battalion's first fatality, Pfc. Steven C. Tucker, 19, of Grapevine, Tex., on May 21.

Meanwhile, the men of 2nd Battalion, 503rd Airborne Infantry, have had to drastically adjust their expectations.

"I thought the Taliban had fallen," Conlon marveled recently. "I thought this was going to be a peacekeeping mission."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Yes, it is heating up, here is an article in a Canadian newspaper
on the increase of the number of Canadian troops going to Afghanistan, the change in their mission but there is also very interesting information on what is happening there:

Danger zone
Canadian soldiers have been on duty in Afghanistan since early 2002
But their mission in the country is about to change

snip

By February, about 1,250 Canadian troops will be in Kandahar to replace U.S. forces now fighting there.

Roughly 1,000 of these will be combat troops expected to do direct battle against insurgents.

snip

A paper done under the auspices of Canada's foreign affairs department last year says that, in some cases, soldiers with U.S. provincial reconstruction teams wearing civilian clothes and driving unmarked cars passed themselves off as non-governmental aid workers.

snip

In September, 34 aid organizations released an open letter denouncing provincial reconstruction teams.

more

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename...
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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. My husband left for Afghanistan yesterday
Still have not heard from him, this news has me very worried.
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. I takes a couple days
...to get there.
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inanna Donating Member (672 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Yes, I just mean that things are heating up
and I am extremely nervous about him being there. He was supposed to stopover in UAE first. Thought I would have heard from him by now.
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Afghanistan has been hot on and off
Typical strategy of the Taliban...hide out for a while and recuperate, then stage your forces and start raiding operations.

The military forces there usually try to wait to get enough of them in one area before launching operations to clean them out.

As for your husband's stop over...there's not a lot of time to make any calls. Usually just enough time for the aircraft to refuel, and then everyone gets back on. With the large number of people on the aircraft, there usually isn't a chance to call home until you get settled in theater.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #50
80. My Best Wishes That Your Husband Comes Back Soon & Safe!
Scary place to be on your way to....God speed.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Here's a picture of a CH-47...
<>
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Meant to add that I HATED riding in those dadgum things....
...and that was about 25 years ago.
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onecent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I've seen these flying over Kansas City (up North) lately n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. it looks like it holds a lot of folks
I hope it was pretty empty. :(
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. There might be a lot of casualties. It was transporting troops.
They won't have a count until after Bush's speech tonight.

This is horrible.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Chinooks would usually carry 35 troops and 2-3 crew, right?
This might be a really ugly one...
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. That's about right.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. BBC: can carry up to 54 including crew & more serious than previous crash
Edited on Tue Jun-28-05 01:48 PM by maddezmom
The cause of the crash was not known, nor was the fate of the passengers. A Chinook helicopter can carry up to 54 passengers plus a crew of four.

The military said the aircraft had been participating in an anti-guerrilla operation. It was the second US Chinook to crash in the country this year.

The BBC's Andrew North in Kabul says it appears that this incident is "more serious" than the previous crash.

Eighteen people were killed in that crash, which took place during a sandstorm in April.

It was the single heaviest loss of life for US troops since they invaded Afghanistan in 2001.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4631947.stm
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Shit.
Two in two days.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. Hmmm
Well, we know the corrupt Bush administration doesn't give a happy rat's ass about the troops breaking down due to their extended tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. But helicopters cost a lot of money and aren't so easy to replace. I don't want to draw any conclusions from a couple of helicopters going down over a very short period of time, but I wonder if it's occurred to the geniuses at the White House that the equipment, like the troops, can't keep going indefinitely.
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
48. Wearing out the equipment?
There are a number of reasons to fight a war or not to fight one. But "wearing out" the equipment isn't one of them. Those helicopters were built for a purpose and they will continue to perform well so long as they are maintained. There are STILL UH-1 Huey helicopters in the Army inventory that spent years flying around Vietnam, then probably served in locations like Grenada, Panama and Saudi Arabia, and continue to serve well to this day.

To be honest, some aircraft benefit from it...the C-130 fleet is abused during training by flying low-level airdrop missions, putting a lot of stress on the airframes. But over in the middle east they are primarily flying straight-and-level airlift missions.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. Afghanistan, the other 'success' story...
according to Dick Cheney and Rumsfailed.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I Don't Know Why More People Don't Point this Out
What do we have in Afghanistan now?? 8,000 - 10,000 troops?? This is the place that really attacked us on September 11TH. This is the place that harbored OBL and the Al-Quaida network. This was the place that served as a breeding ground for the terrorist that attacked us!!!

Instead of keeping our troops in Afghanistan and actually doing something like....I don't know.....tracking down and capturing Osama bin "what's-his-name", we pull our troops out and go attack a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

We attacked a country that "if weapons of mass destruction were brains, they wouldn't have enough to blow their nose"
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Those SCHOOLS bushCo vaunt? Afghan school used as bomb factory
My headlines from this morning;

Afghan school used as bomb factory

Bombs kill senior Afghan policeman and four others

Taleban set fire to Turkish road construction company's vehicles in Afghan west

Ambush on Afghan patrol team claims 3 lives, wounds 2


"success story" my f*cking arse, Cheney the Dick.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Look Boss
Birdies dropping for sky again.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. It could be out of Giebelstadt, Germany
where the last Chinook to crash in Afghanistan was based, though it had also carried troops out of Vicenza, Italy, as well as some contractors.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. "The cause of the crash is unknown"
Ya think?
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. probably a "sand storm"
like the last Chinook crash in Afghanistan. Wouldnt want Americans to think the Taliban are getting the upper hand.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. 16 on board
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AFSCME girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. #1744 + 16 + 1760....
and all for *'s lie's.......very sad :cry:

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. actually, this happened in Afghanistan, so the numbers are different
n/t
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. "success story" Afghanistan, not Iraq.
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AFSCME girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Sorry, didn't think about the two
separate war fronts before posting.

AFSCME girl
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. IMO, they're both wars based on nothing but lies.
But thought you'd want to know the 16 is Afghanistan's toll.
:hug:
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AFSCME girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Yes, thank you..
I could not imagine losing someone I loved to a crazy man's pack of lies :cry:

Thanks again for the clarification!

:hug: :hi:

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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I thought I had...was chatting one night online with my hubby soldier who
was in Iraq and then he had to go on nightduty at the TOC (tactical op center, a "head office" each camp has) in Baquoba, where he was stationed.

So I was doing my newsfeeds for the ICCC, when a report flashed across...TOC in Baquoba hit by mortars, 6 US dead.

I typed up the report, sent it on to the ICCC, went into the bathroom, had a cigarette. And lost it completely. Fell to the floor in just total devastation.

Then I went back to my newsfeeds work for the next 3 days straight. Took them 3 days to verify the names of the dead; my hubby wasn't one of them. He'd gone out for a smoke when the mortars hit.

I've never felt such total loss of all meaning to life as I did during those 3 days.

I will NEVER forgive, I will NEVER forget.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Wow!
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AFSCME girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Omigosh, Lynn...
I could not even begin to know how that feels. I know most of us have dealt with loss, but, as I mentioned before, not a loss due to a lying, treacherous idiot such as *...

I agree completely ~ NEVER forgive and NEVER forget! :hug: :loveya:

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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. I couldn't either, until I thought it had happened to me.
And now, every time I send death info to the ICCC, all I can think of is how I felt when I'd thought I'd lost my husband, and how the families of the dead must feel so much beyond the total devastation I'd felt.

:hug: to you, too!
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Lynn, have a link?
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Yeppers, sorry, got both my newsfeeds going mad & forgot...
Edited on Tue Jun-28-05 01:51 PM by LynnTheDem
Dammit...ok my Nasdaq link won't work...try this;

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/cgi/NGoto/100314190?-746
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. MSNBC and CNN; may be more than 16
Both MSNBC and Cable News Network said first reports indicated there may have been more than 16.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. 
Edited on Tue Jun-28-05 02:41 PM by lebkuchen
Vicenza-based troops in Afghanistan aggressively taking fight to the enemy--General attributes surge in fighting to SETAFs tough new tactics

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article...

I wonder just when the latest Chinook went down. I ask because the timing of this article, that we are "taking it to the Afghanis," on the day, supposedly, that the Chinook went down, seems far fetched.

When the other Chinook went down a few months ago, there was an article in Stripes the same day of the crash about how we were "taking it to the Afghanis." It is as if the Stripes folks in DC have heard about the crash the day before so attempt to gloss over the accident by making it seem the sacrifice was worth it because of our aggressive action against the terrorists.

The business were in is not one to sit back and wait for the enemy to come to us, Champion said.



,,,so of course, it would be natural for a Chinook to crash since we are "taking it to the enemy."

Something similar was said in the Stripes article printed the day of the last Afghan Chinook accident. Coincidence? I will search for the other article. I think I had posted it on DU.

On edit,

Here is the article that was printed the day the other Chinook in Afghanistan had crashed...it was printed before news of the crash.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article...

Stripes reported the crash the next day, April 8.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article...

If there is going to be a spring offensive, then let it be ours, said Kamiya, commander of Combined/Joint Task Force-76. We have very good intelligence. We know what doing. They will soon feel the effects of an offensive of our own.

And he hinted at upcoming operations as the weather improves.



,,,,so of course it would be natural for a Chinook to crash because the weather was bad. Makes me wonder if the Bushies ar holding up news of the crashes in order to couch the facts and suppress American concerns about that war as well.
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realcountrymusic Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. More senseless loss

Just in time to cast a nice pallor over His Highness's Big Speech tonight.

My sympathies to the families of the fallen. War sucks.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. Perhaps This is Related
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15669538&metho...

SAS ON ALERT FOR OSAMA SWOOP
Exclusive By Chris Hughes
SAS troops were last night poised to storm into Afghanistan and capture Osama bin Laden.

Special forces have "good intelligence" the al-Qaeda boss or a senior henchman is holed up in a Taliban enclave.

Two squadrons are on stand-by waiting for the go-ahead from reconnaissance troops on the ground in Afghanistan.

Specialist counter-terrorist soldiers in the rapid-deployment group are on high alert at the SAS's Hereford base.

Hate to be cynical, but I don't think "chimpy" would mind using his little propaganda speech tonight to announce the capture of OBL.

I pray that they will find these troops alive, but I also pray that they weren't being used by the BFEE.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
40. instead and sadly, he may have to keep quiet about additional casualties
in another example of faulty intelligence...but who knows what Rove has been cooking these many days.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. By the way... " US military servicemember missing in Afghanistan"
06/28/05 AP: US military servicemember missing in Afghan
The servicemember was in the back of a Humvee in Kunar province on Saturday when the road it was traveling on gave way and the vehicle slid into Pech River, a military statement said.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/i_latestdetail.asp?id=28836
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. Taliban is claiming responsibility
A spokesman for the ousted Taliban regime claimed responsibility for the crash in the eastern province of Kunar, which has been a traditional stronghold of Taliban and other Islamic militants.

"We shot down a helicopter in Kunar," Taliban spokesman Mullah Abdul Latif Hakimi told AFP by satellite phone from an undisclosed location.

The US said the "cause of the crash and the state of the survivors," remained unclear, but added there was an ongoing operation in the province with US fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters currently providing close air support to the forces on the ground.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050628/w...
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be "undisclosed location" if using ANY type of
RF equipment.

Taliban spokesman Mullah Abdul Latif Hakimi told AFP by satellite phone from an undisclosed location.

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. CNN said AP rec'd a call, too
:shrug:
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
27. My friend flew a Chinook in Nam. I've never met a more anti-war
and 100% Democratic and intelligent person in my life.
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Old Vet Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. This Vet and most in my chapter VVA-
are so Anti-Iraq it hurts.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #34
67. Welcome to DU
:-)
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
69. welcome to DU old vet
:hi: and thank you for your service to our country.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
45. CNN just reported that the Taliban just claimed responsibility.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
46. Reuters: Up to 20 on US chopper down in Afghanistan-official
In Washington, the U.S. defense official, who asked not to be identified, cautioned at the Pentagon that early reports were sketchy from the rugged area near the border with Pakistan where the twin-rotor CH-47 went down.

"Reports indicate between 15 and 20 were aboard," said the official.

Another Pentagon official, who also asked not to be named, said: "I wouldn't rule out anything."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050628/ts_nm/afghan_dc_6 ;_
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Hmmmmmmmmm
Edited on Tue Jun-28-05 03:42 PM by malaise
Pakistan's internet crashes, helicopter brought down and Bushco addresses the nation later...Is the already dead Osama dead this time???
What are they up to for tonight. I am very curious.

<edit> word changed.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
54. CNN reporting the Helicopter was a MH-47
Edited on Tue Jun-28-05 04:06 PM by maddezmom
MH-47 Special Operations Aircraft
The MH-47 Special Operations Aircraft (SOA) is the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment long-distance, heavy-lift helicopter, which is equipped with aerial refueling capability, a fast-rope rappelling system and other upgrades or operations-specific equipment.

US Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) aircraft contribute to the Joint Vision 2010 concept of dominant maneuver by helping to create asymmetric advantages for combined application of land, air, and sea power against enemy defenses within the joint environment. They are eminently capable, as modernized, multi-mission platforms operating within tailor-to-task organizations, of supporting precise, agile, fast-moving joint operations.

~snip~

The MH-47 conducts overt and covert infiltrations, exfiltrations, air assault, resupply, and sling operations over a wide range of environmental conditions. The aircraft can perform a variety of other missions including shipboard operations, platform operations, urban operations, water operations, parachute operations, forward aerial refueling point (FARP) operations, mass casualty, and combat search and rescue operations. With the use of special mission equipment and night vision devices, the air crew can operate in hostile mission environments over all types of terrain at low altitudes during periods of low visibility and low ambient lighting conditions with pinpoint navigation accuracy.



http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft...
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. MH-47
The MH-47E is a very capable aircraft. But it still has limitations, and operating any aircraft in a mountainous region has more risk associated than operating in other areas. Add hostile fire to the equation and it's a tough environment to fly in. High pressure altitudes, high density altitudes, few places to make safe emergency landings...

The environment could have had just as much a role in the crash of this aircraft as enemy fire.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. how many troops can this one hold...didn't see it on the link above
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Same as a CH-47
The CH-47 and MH-47 are the same helicopter. The MH-47 is modified with special mission equipment for use as a special operations infil/exfil aircraft...air-to-air refueling, advanced avionics, different radios, etc.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. thanks for the info
:hi:
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. They're definitely trying to smoke out OBL.
And were probably under orders to get it done before the speech.

I hate this war. And those who lied us into it.

-as
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. We were lied into Afghanistan?
Just curious what your take on that is...Iraq, I can see the arguement...but Afghanistan?
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
56. This on top of the Apache we lost yesterday....
Oh boy! Iraqirama fun time.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
61. This breaks my heart!!! On those helicopters they are sitting
ducks!!! Why don't they rail the soldiers in???
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. RAIL the soldiers in?
What makes you think a train would do a better job? How would you RAIL soliders into the Hindu Kush?
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
65. Now saying up to 33 dead...
But they can't confirm it because POTUS is busy telling us how well things are going in Iraq. Fucking Pricks!
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
66. Bushco should ask the Russians what
they think about invading Afghanistan.
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. If Russia should support the insurgents in any way (secretly)
Edited on Tue Jun-28-05 08:26 PM by ckramer
This war would never win. Probably the Russians'd really like to see us playing their role of 80's.
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. The Russians went about it the wrong way
Their tactics and strategy in Afghanistan was doomed to fail from the start. The US hasn't had anywhere near the problems the Russians have had, and the US has faced a much more organized opposition from day 1.
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
71. Kuwait news: 13 of 16 killed in Afghan copter crash U.S. service members
http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO...


A Pentagon official on Tuesday said 13 of the 16 confirmed killed in a CH-47 Chinook helicopter crash in Afghanistan were members of the U.S. military, and the other three were civilians employed by U.S. government contractors.

Bad weather was believed to have caused the crash, not any action by the Taliban, as was claimed by some news reports out of Afghanistan, the Pentagon official said.

Two additional U.S. military personnel were missing among the 18 people listed on the helicopter flight manifest, the Pentagon official said. Names of those killed in the crash were being withheld pending notification of next of kin.

Recovery work at the crash site was to resume after the arrival of a mortuary affairs team, which was traveling to the site by road because bad weather was continuing to hamper flight operations in the area, a U.S. military official said.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. They would say bad weather
This story has lots of time to develop, though. That will put 2005 as the highest year for U.S. military deaths in Afghanistan, with six months to go.
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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Why not bad weather?
It's the #1 killer of pilots.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Here is a bit from the BBC
"The twin-engined aircraft had been sent to the area to support other troops already on the ground. It is believed they were under threat from militants in the vicinity. US military spokesmen say the area where the helicopter went down is in remote and high mountainous terrain."

So, given that the helicopter was in the region to support troops in the area "under threat" from militants, it doesn't seem improbable that the crash could have been the result of this very threat.

"A man claiming to be a spokesman for Taleban told the BBC its supporters had shot the helicopter down, but there has been no independent confirmation of the claim.
The man said he had video of the crash and its aftermath.
A different man who said he spoke for the Taleban phoned two international news agencies in Afghanistan with similar claims.
At least one of the phone calls came before the US officially released news of the crash."

So, someone claiming to be with the Taleban knew of the crash before news was released. That would support the idea that there were militants observing the whole thing, who could well have shot the helicopter down, as they claim. It doesn't disprove the claim that it was weather related, of course, just makes the Taleban claim more believable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4631947.stm

As I said, the story has only begun, and there is bound to be quite a period before any real consensus is arrived at.

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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. It could be the result of a variety of reasons
Hostile fire is only one reason. Out of all the aircraft lost in both Iraq and Afghanistan, many were lost due to accidents, not hostile fire. Flying in the mountains is a very high stress flying environment...requires a lot from the aircraft and the crew. Add it some marginal weather and it makes it very tricky.
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #74
78. May very well be true..
In post #76 I put an article that says a Taliban leader said that his group were not only attacking a group of 7 US soldiers nearby, but they also shot down the 'copter.

He had called the AP to talk about the helicopter going down before any news about the crash was released. The article you spoke of may have been talking about the same group of US soldiers <and then the "shot down" 'copter that was coming to help them>. As usual, we'll be piecing this together by using overseas news sources and the Pentagon will change their story accordingly to cover their asses as the real story is reported by media NOT controlled by chimp's regime.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBTWG33JAE.html
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. Taliban leader claims they will release a video..
of the helicopter being shot down, so who knows...reportedly HE called the AP about the helicopter going down before the news was released today. Guess he could have had people in the area who happened to see it go down and then they all decided to say it was done by them? Could lead to a lot of egg on the Pentagon's face if they push the "weather" story really hard and there really IS a video.


http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBTWG33JAE.html

Purported Taliban spokesman Mullah Latif Hakimi telephoned the AP before news of the crash was released and said the rebels shot the helicopter down.

He said the rebels filmed the attack and would release the video to the media. He also claimed that rebels killed seven U.S. soldiers in an attack in the same area, though U.S. spokeswomen Lt. Cindy Moore said no such attack had been made on an American convoy.

Hakimi often calls news organizations to claim responsibility for attacks on behalf of the Taliban. His information has sometimes proven untrue or exaggerated, and his exact tie to the group's leadership is unclear.

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Herkdrvr Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. Who knows...I guess we'll see
Those videos are often sketchy...often shows insurgents climbing over wreckage but no direct shots of the aircraft being shot down.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-05 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
79. Update from the BBC - military says shoot-down possible now.
Edited on Wed Jun-29-05 01:14 AM by daleo
"Washington said it was possible that the helicopter was shot down, as the Taleban has claimed...Initial reports indicate the crash may have been caused by hostile fire. The status of the service members is unknown at this time."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4631947.stm
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