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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 08:14 PM
Original message
Re-arming DC: Senators want to pack heat in capital
As a US Senator from Texas, Kay Bailey Hutchison splits time between her home state, where she is allowed to own practically any weapon invented and can even carry a concealed handgun, and the District of Columbia, where she cant even keep a .357 Magnum in her house. For 12 years she has managed to abide this without complaint, but apparently shes had enough. In May, she filed a bill to overturn DCs gun-control laws, and this week she indicated that she has more than 30 co-sponsors and intends to push it to the floor for a vote in the near future.

The bill would, in one swoop, negate all the gun laws the district has adopted over the past 30 years, including pre-purchase criminal-background checks and bans on semi-automatic weapons and cop-killer bullets. If it passes the Senate, it is expected to breeze through the House, which passed a similar bill last September.

In the press release announcing the bill, Hutchison is quoted saying, apparently without irony: "The rights guaranteed by the Constitution do not end at the borders of Washington, DC."

(snip)

All of which has nothing to do with whether it becomes law. "This bill is primarily designed to allow Republican members of the House and Senate to pose as gun-rights fundamentalists for the benefit of their base," says Anderson.

more
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/this_...
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you go back in history it was the Repugs that did not want guns
in DC because of all the BLACKS... This is a typical Repug do as I say not as I do...

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Fine, let them all carry guns..see
what happens next on the Senate Floor. Instead of cheney telling Senator Leahy to "go fuck yourself"..he'll pull out his gun and start firing shots and go tell fauxsux "how good that felt"!
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why should law-abiding citizens in DC be allowed to keep and bear
arms for self defense? Citizens already have police to protect them 24/7 from criminals and if that fails a victim can always plead for mercy from criminals whose right to keep and bear arms is not affected by silly things like laws. :sarcasm:


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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. No, no.
If you pass more laws the criminals will have to fill out a bunch of forms and then they won't be able to buy guns because the government won't let them.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeah and not only that..
.... but they'll be shamed into turning over their weapons. Yep, thugs have integrity too. Sure they do. :)
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Nancy Waterman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. I t is the law abiding citizens of DC who don't want the guns there
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 09:26 PM by Nancy Waterman
Shouldn't DC choose their own gun laws. This is really an outrage.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Is there a reputable poll of DC residents on whether they do or do not
want to keep and bear arms for self defense?
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. why is it your problem?
shouldn't this be something that those of us who pay taxes and vote in the District of Columbia get to decide for ourselves?

I don't know of a poll, but I can tell you that not one member of the city council supports lifting the gun ban. Not one person running for city wide office last fall advocated lifting the gun ban. Not even the Washington Times supports it. There are no pundits who live in DC who support it, there is no movement, no group formed to lobby for it, nothing. There is no grassroots effort. The only one is top down, not bottom up.

And by the way, if Virginia didn't hand out guns like candy, it would be harder for criminals in DC to get their hands on one.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Since you chose to reply rather than Nancy Waterman, Nancy said
"It is the law abiding citizens of DC who don't want the guns there".

My question was for a source to support that statement. You say "I don't know of a poll" so my question is still unanswered.

You also said "if Virginia didn't hand out guns like candy, it would be harder for criminals in DC to get their hands on one."

Why is the murder and nonnegligent manslaughter rate for Virginia 5.6 per 100,000 and for the District of Columbia it is 44.2 per 100,000. See Uniform Crime Reports, Table 5 - by State, 2003. That fact destroys your unsupported assertion that guns from Virginia are causing the problem in D.C.

:hi:
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. rather than a poll, which can easily be skewed
I'd point out that not one single politician in DC, even the fringe ones looking for any votes possible, even the republicans, wants to repeal the gun laws. That's how little support there is, if there was a movement, someone would be running for the council, or even an ANC spot calling for it. That would get them lots of attention, a good thing for a fringe candidate. But not one has said it's a good idea.

better than polls, if you can't convince any politician or wanna-be to take up your issue, then no one cares. no one at all.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Nonetheless, Nancy Waterman said "It is the law abiding citizens of DC
who don't want the guns there". Nice try on trying to reframe the issue Nancy Waterman made with that statement but, the statement is still unsupported until Nancy or someone else provides a source.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Just what I was going to say
What gives Hutchinson the right to dictate to D.C.?
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. So Sumner would have been shot instead of caned?


http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/The_...

On May 22, 1856, the "world's greatest deliberative body" became a combat zone. In one of the most dramatic and deeply ominous moments in the Senate's entire history, a member of the House of Representatives entered the Senate chamber and savagely beat a senator into unconsciousness.

The inspiration for this clash came three days earlier when Senator Charles Sumner, a Massachusetts antislavery Republican, addressed the Senate on the explosive issue of whether Kansas should be admitted to the Union as a slave state or a free state. In his "Crime Against Kansas" speech, Sumner identified two Democratic senators as the principal culprits in this crimeStephen Douglas of Illinois and Andrew Butler of South Carolina. He characterized Douglas to his face as a "noise-some, squat, and nameless animal . . . not a proper model for an American senator." Andrew Butler, who was not present, received more elaborate treatment. Mocking the South Carolina senator's stance as a man of chivalry, the Massachusetts senator charged him with taking "a mistress . . . who, though ugly to others, is always lovely to him; though polluted in the sight of the world, is chaste in his sightI mean," added Sumner, "the harlot, Slavery."

Representative Preston Brooks was Butler's South Carolina kinsman. If he had believed Sumner to be a gentleman, he might have challenged him to a duel. Instead, he chose a light cane of the type used to discipline unruly dogs. Shortly after the Senate had adjourned for the day, Brooks entered the old chamber, where he found Sumner busily attaching his postal frank to copies of his "Crime Against Kansas" speech.

Moving quickly, Brooks slammed his metal-topped cane onto the unsuspecting Sumner's head. As Brooks struck again and again, Sumner rose and lurched blindly about the chamber, futilely attempting to protect himself. After a very long minute, it ended.

Bleeding profusely, Sumner was carried away. Brooks walked calmly out of the chamber without being detained by the stunned onlookers. Overnight, both men became heroes in their respective regions.

Surviving a House censure resolution, Brooks resigned, was immediately reelected, and soon thereafter died at age thirty-seven. Sumner recovered slowly and returned to the Senate, where he remained for another eighteen years. The nation, suffering from the breakdown of reasoned discourse that this event symbolized, tumbled onward toward the catastrophe of civil war.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. D.C.'s gun laws are stupid, but it should be their call
Let them decide. If the residents of the District vote to have gun confiscation it should be their call.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Exactly, Let DC Have Its Own Laws
I mean, for just one moment step away from the issue of whether or not guns should be allowed in DC or not. The question is, who decides, the locally elected officials, or the Senate.

DC does not have any elected representatives in Congress, and yet, that body makes laws that affect the district. Furthermore, our government passes laws specifically applying to DC and not other states. It doesn't seem fair.

Don't bother to check my profile, I'm from Florida, not DC. But sometime I would welcome a discussion on the history of Congress trampling on any self-governing rights of DC.

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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. This would turn DC into the gun capital of the entire Northeast
The bill would, in one swoop, negate all the gun laws the district has adopted over the past 30 years, including pre-purchase criminal-background checks and bans on semi-automatic weapons and cop-killer bullets.

Until recently, illegal gun dealers from New York and elsewhere in the Northeast would head down I-95 to Virginia where they could load up (so to speak) with whatever they could sell up North. Then Virginia finally passed some common-sense reforms, like allowing only one gun purchase per person every 30 days. Now the gunrunners have to go all the way to Georgia. :nopity:

But with this ill-conceived law in place, DC itself would become pretty much an unrestricted open-air gun bazaar. The safety of the entire region is at stake here.

By the way, there is no requirement that Sen. Hutchison reside within the District while the Senate is in session. If guns are that important to her, she could just as easily commute from Virginia where she could keep pretty much whatever she wants in her house. :nuke:
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Safety of the entire region?
Its one of the murder capitals in the entire nation!

Will getting rid of draconian firearms laws make it the doubleplus unsafe?
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. No, it'll export DC-style gun violence to NYC, Philly, Boston etc.
if Hutchison et al. succeed in removing all restrictions on guns in DC, creating a situation similar to that which existed in Va. until recently, in which gunrunners from the Northeastern cities would just drive a few hours down 95 to stock up on the guns they couldn't legally obtain at home.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. Zell Miller packin heat?
Um... that might not be such a good idea. c. Mathews
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wasn't there some Repug Wingnut saying
that members of Congress should be shot? There was some thread about that today or last night. I don't think I imagined it. :shrug:
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. She wants to shoot
Democrats! Sounds like it.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. She been doin lunch too often with Ann the Man ?
Or has Rove threatened her too?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Only if DC will allow everyone else to legally carry weapons.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. The repukes will never do that
People of color might pack heat

That would scare the shit out of every white country club conservative.. Imagine Rodney King packing'

LOL
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. LOL! What a picture! :-)
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Rodney King couldn't pack heat
because of Ronald Regan's CA gun laws which were designed to dis-arm the Black Panther Party and other "radicals".

Firearms prohibition are the last Jim Crow laws on the books.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh boy, I can see it now! With all the civility displayed in Congress
right now, I can see the Zell challange to a "duel" happening on a daily basis! Actually, if I think about that, maybe it's not such a bad idea!
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ekelly Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. You mean like this?......

"I thank my colleague from (your state here) for his remarks, and although I have the highest respect for my friend from (same state here), I think his ammendment sucks! I ask unanimous consent that I be given an additional 30 seconds to load my gun and waste his ass!"
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. Rights guaranteed by the Constitution?????
Ooooookay... Let's begin with no taxation without representation and give DC two voting senators and, say, a couple of House members. At least as many as Wyoming or Montana, anyway.

While we're at it, they'll need a warning sign at the Capitol building: "Caution: Senators may be armed and dangerous."
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. DING!! DING!! DING!! Representation for DC first, guns for wingnuts 2nd
eom
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. OMG! I got a DING DING DING!
Life is complete! Well, according to my wretched standards, anyway. :rofl:
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Really?
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 10:06 PM by ElectroPrincess
Kay Bailey Hutchison wanting to pack a .357 Magnum? That's hilarious. I'd be surprised if that "bag of bones" has the strength to sight such a powerful handgun and hit the intended target. Hell, if she pulls the trigger, it will knock her on her a**.

Too funny! I also doubt that she takes time to go to the firing range. Truth be told, Kay would be better served by a 9 mm Glock.

That's both stupid and bizarre. :P

On Edit: I just couldn't resist - Hey Ms. Hutchison, wrap your boney fingers around this PIECE? Did I say bizarre? :evilgrin:

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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. but since it's all about image
the .357 is better. looks good in the holster, you see.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. The Miller/Matthews Duelling Act of 2005?
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angryxyouth Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. I think it is a great idea!!!
Who is up for an armed protest on capital hill. Armed Americans for political reform. One million armed man march. With the National Guard in Iraq, it would be one big republican piss in you pants event.
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sled Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. Hear!!! Hear!!!
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. This is kinda funny....if it weren't so dangerous
The congressmen used to carry guns in DC way before we were born. WILD WEST STUFF...

Today, I can see the harm it would cause all around.

I can also see a huge shoot out on the House or Senate floor. :smoke:
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
29. forget the "issue" the real heart of this
is the fact that Congress rules DC - not the citizens... no rights for DC voters/citizens. Only place on the continent where "taxation without representation" stil is the rule.
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Kitsune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
31. Allowing more guns in the capitol is smart because....?
Is this or is this not the post-9/11 world, where security is all?

We're paranoid about people with explosive shoes and James-Bond pen guns, but who cares if some guy living 5 blocks from the Capitol building wants an AR-15.

While I am generally in favor of less gun control, this proposal strikes me as incredibly ill-thought-out.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. they'd never get out of the residential areas anyway
think congress will allow a gun within a country mile of their offices?
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
37. Don't they want Congress-Critters of their own in DC...
...more than they want guns?

Of course, after seeing how the Congress conducts themselves on an average day, DC residents might decide they have enough daycare centers full of snivelling brats who need their diapers changed already....
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Lowell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. DCs Gun Laws are Crazy Enough Already
A number of years ago I was in DC with a group to demonstrate our support for the pardoning of Leonard Peltier. I come from Florida and have had a carry permit for years so it is just routine to carry a pistol with me on trips. While I was there we rallied in Lafayette Park and the next day had a show of support in the Capitol building. I inadvertently forgot and had a magazine of ammunition in my jacket pocket. When I realized my error I asked security if they would hold it for me until I was through. Naturally I was cuffed and arrested on the spot.

I was taken into the basement of the Capitol building by Secret Service and placed in an interrogation room. Eventually another agent came in and questioned me. I was there for a long time. I am sure they were checking my carry permit out and checking my service records. I have no criminal record, but I served 11 years in the Army and 3 in the Navy. After awhile the agent returned and explained to me that it was not, at that time, illegal to own a gun in DC, but it was illegal to have unregistered ammunition. WTF? They could have fined me $500 a round.

After several very uncomfortable hours I was released and escorted from DC. My wife was pretty shook up about the whole thing, but after we thought about it and the further we got from DC we got a laugh out of being kicked out of the capitol. I've never been back and Leonard is still sitting in a cell for a crime he didn't commit.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. If I had to sit next to Duncan Hunter or Dana Rohrabach
I'd want to be packin heat too.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
44. Maybe they'll all shoot each other and we can start fresh.
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JohnnyBoots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. They'd have to change the Washington Wizards back to the
Washington Bullets. Didn't they change the name first off because of all the gun crime?
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. Maybe her lobbyist "friends" can protect her worthless ass
If Congressional reps actually lived and worked in their districts YEAR-ROUND (possible in this age of telecommunications) this wouldn't be a problem.
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