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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:26 PM
Original message
Marines Rescue Iraqis Tortured by Insurgents
KARABILA, Iraq, Sunday, June 19 - Marines on an operation to eliminate insurgents that began Friday broke through the outside wall of a building in this small rural village to find a torture center equipped with electric wires, a noose, handcuffs, a 574-page jihad manual - and four beaten and shackled Iraqis.

The American military has found torture houses after invading towns heavily populated by insurgents - like Falluja, where the anti-insurgent assault last fall uncovered almost 20 such sites. But rarely have they come across victims who have lived to tell the tale.

The men said they told the marines, from Company K, Third Marines, Second Division, that they had been tortured with shocks and flogged with a strip of rubber for more than two weeks, unseen behind the windows of black glass. One of them, Ahmed Isa Fathil, 19, a former member of the new Iraqi Army, said he had been held and tortured there for 22 days. All the while, he said, his face was almost entirely taped over and his hands were cuffed.
...
The only possible explanation for the seizure he could think of was his time in the new Iraqi Army. Unemployed and illiterate, Mr. Fathil signed up after the American occupation began.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/international/middlee...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dang. They're as bad as us. nt
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, they are.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. We should be flattered.
After all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :evilfrown:
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radar Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Ah...
But, did they serve chicken for dinner?
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. We torture, they torture, we torture, they torture.
When we invaded, it started it all. How do *, Darth Vader and Rummy sleep at night?!
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wonder who they learned that from? Well, at least they have
finally learned something.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. "But rarely have they come across victims who have lived to tell the tale.
"tale"? Timing is questionable, at best. Just in time to defend the position re: Gitmo.

peace.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Yeah, sounds suspiciously like loads of other shit that's been shoveled
Like the so-called bloody "execution chamber" found in Fallujah that turned out to be a temporary morgue for Iraqis killed during the U.S. "clean up" of the City of Mosques.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Hard to believe anything
that is being reported from Iraq.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I mean, come on, how ridiculous is this? The scene sounds totally staged
"The manual recovered - a fat, well-thumbed Arabic paperback - listed itself as the 2005 First Edition of "The Principles of Jihadist Philosophy," by Abdel Rahman al-Ali. Its chapters included "How to Select the Best Hostage," and "The Legitimacy of Cutting the Infidels' Heads."


Also" "But nine months ago, when continuing working meant risking the wrath of the Jihadists, he quit."

Makes me wonder just who really tortured him, and why.




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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. what are they, an up-and-coming medical equipment company?
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Gosh, I dunno -- but the "jihadist manual" is really a disgusting joke
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
41. do they also have trade magazines? "Jihadist Weekly,"
"Modern Decapitator"
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. "Jihadist Weekly"!! I haven't laughed so hard in awhile
Yeah and its free you just fill out a survey card indicating how much you spend on bombs, rocket launchers, suicide vests, what purchasing authority you have and your position in the Jihad hierarchy (jihad manager, beheader, chief mullah, etc or line martyr).
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Bob3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
28. why would a Jihadst need a manual?
This is a very odd point. It's like the huge abandoned bunker complex they found a while ago - it doesn't make sense for a guerrilla force to have anything like this. No if the US Army were going to fight a guerrilla war you'd bet your boots their would be a manual. It's just so damned odd. And where the hell did they get the book Borders? It doesn't make any sense.

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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Yes, and did the reporter translate the title and read through it?
Or did someone -- from the U.S. military -- tell her that's what it was? Why no pictures of this manual, or the torture chamber, or the victim?

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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
32. A manual on "how to select the best hostage"
and "the legitimacy of cutting the infidels head"? I don't believe it for a second.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. And do they need to be convinced that beheading infidels is legitimate?
I thought the Islamophobes always blamed such "barbarism" on the Quran.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
31. Yeah, curious timing
Just when the Bushistas came under attack for torturing people. "look, the enemy is even worse!"
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow! Did those guys study at the School of the Americas or something?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe some of the insurgents had been former guests at Abu Grahib
They may have learned these techniques from the U.S. army. Assuming this isn't just a setup propaganda piece, which is always possible, particularly when there is no free press to raise the appropriate questions.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. When we do it, the NYT calls it abuse. Why are they screaming torture now?
Hey, its only a little bit of friendly hazing is it not?
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neohippie Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. Their torture goes to eleven...
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 08:20 AM by neohippie
Our torture only goes to ten on the well known scale of one to ten, but their torture (it's because their evil doers) goes off the scale to eleven, so their torture is evil, and well more torturous
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. Whose's going to resuce the Iraqis being tortured by the marines?
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
15. Torture center? Or, as Rush would say,
frat party? See, this is the deal. In order to "spread democracy" we have to be above reproach. Pretty tall order. But that's part of the deal. So, now that we've uncovered a "torture center"...which, don't get me wrong, is wonderful news, we have to make sure we're not operating any torture centers ourselves. We want to believe we're the good guys from the movies. We're the liberators. We're the saviors. And often we are. But that means we cannot commit atrocities. We must abide by the Geneva Convention. No exceptions. No loopholes. We must lead by example.
I don't trust this administration to show the Middle East how democracy works. Not when, from the very beginning, this administration has set out to dismantle the democratic process both in America and abroad.
Back to Rush, maybe he could do a tour of the various torture centers and let us know how they rank. Which is the most like a frat party, Rush? Let's start with Gitmo, Rush, and see what you think.
Get back to us on that, Rush.
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brucefan Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. "What happens in Gitmo stays in Gitmo"
That offensive fat bloated sack of shit is actually selling T shirts with this slogan on his website.I LOATHE HIM.
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. The insurgents kill "traitors" such as Iraqi army recruits
Why would they torture anyone when their record has been killing? Do the insurgents supposedly think these so-called Iraq army recruits have our secret plan? Everyone know we have no plan. This is assinine beyond measure.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. Excuse me, but what the heck is a "Jihad Manual"? This story smells bad.
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6000eliot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. You're right
It sounds to me like we're being "Jessica Lynched."
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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I wonder if people doubted the North Vietnam POW torture stories
?
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Counterpuncher Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
20. It does smell kinda "Jessica Lynch-ish"
and wasn't there a story about patrol jets "responding to ground fire" near the Syrian border and it actually turned out that it was just a wedding party that got capped in the dead of night?

And i like the Nazi quote; thanks Ms. Clio. at least the Nazis didn't play Auschwitz off as just one big frat party hazing.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Seems a lot of the Pentagon's bestest stories turn out to be lies
Thanks and welcome to DU, Counterpuncher -- I like your moniker.
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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. Iraqis Found in Torture House Tell of Brutality of Insurgents
KARABILA, Iraq, Sunday, June 19 - Marines on an operation to eliminate insurgents that began Friday broke through the outside wall of a building in this small rural village to find a torture center equipped with electric wires, a noose, handcuffs, a 574-page jihad manual - and four beaten and shackled Iraqis.

The American military has found torture houses after invading towns heavily populated by insurgents - like Falluja, where the anti-insurgent assault last fall uncovered almost 20 such sites. But rarely have they come across victims who have lived to tell the tale.

The men said they told the marines, from Company K, Third Marines, Second Division, that they had been tortured with shocks and flogged with a strip of rubber for more than two weeks, unseen behind the windows of black glass. One of them, Ahmed Isa Fathil, 19, a former member of the new Iraqi Army, said he had been held and tortured there for 22 days. All the while, he said, his face was almost entirely taped over and his hands were cuffed.

In an interview with an embedded reporter just hours after he was freed, he said he had never seen the faces of his captors, who occasionally whispered at him, "We will kill you." He said they did not question him, and he did not know what they wanted. Nor did he ever expect to be released.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/international/middlee...

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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
24. Well now ya see there's yor reel torchrers right there ya see.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
26. 574-page jihad manual?
what the fuck is that?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. You have to admit that's a nice touch, eh?
Sort of a "Encyclopaedia Jihadica".
Full color glossy inserts and all I would expect.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. I would be very intersted
in seeing what's in it, if it really exists...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. Don't hold your breath while waiting to see it. nt
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
33. Read the whole story-strange contradictions
He was held for 22 days supposedly, but said he didn't realize there were other hostages, yet he claims the insurgents kill everyone they take.

"The others were emaciated and battered. Mr. Fathil had fared the best. The other three were taken by medical helicopter to Balad, a base near Baghdad with a hospital."
He fared just well enough to give this story.

And no pictures were taken, not even the marks left by beating since the insurgents took pictures of those and he I guess could be ID'd by the insurgents that way? (WTF?).
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Good points - and also note that he had quit working for the occupation
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 12:26 PM by Ms. Clio
forces 9 months previously -- so why are the "insurgents" just getting around to torturing him now?

Probably some unit of the so-called "Iraqi army" tortured him instead.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
35. this story stinks n/t
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. How goddam conveeeeeeeeeeeeeenient.
3 to 1 it was staged like the Jessica Lynch rescue. Takers?
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