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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:22 PM
Original message
Newsweek says may have erred in Koran report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050515/ts_nm/religion_afghan_newsweek_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newsweek magazine on Sunday said it may have erred in a May 9 report that said U.S. interrogators desecrated the Koran at Guantanamo Bay, and apologized to victims of deadly violence sparked by the article.

The weekly news magazine said in its May 23 edition that the original source of the allegation was not sure where he saw the assertion that at least one copy of the Koran was flushed down a toilet in an attempt to get detainees to talk.

"We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Editor Mark Whitaker wrote in the magazine's latest issue, due to appear on U.S. newsstands on Monday.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Too late.
So which story is true? The origianl, or this?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
63. Too little and too late, and I am glad this shit has blown up in Bush's
face. The Newsweek story has put in jeopardy a handful of despotic regimes that have sided with Bush. Let them all fall!
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #63
113. Kuwait won't give them any more FREE oil now.
First Published 2005-05-13, Last Updated 2005-05-13 16:42:07
The US magazine Newsweek last week cited sources as saying that investigators had uncovered a case that interrogators, trying to rattle prisoners, flushed a Koran down a toilet and led a detainee around with a collar and a dog leash.
Pentagon officials said the allegation was first made by a lawyer of a detainee who was recently repatriated to Kuwait.
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=13491

Wednesday 16 March 2005,
.... Al-Sana said that before and during the Iraq war, Kuwait supplied the US army with fuel worth $450 million free of charge, its contribution to the overthrow of the government of Saddam Hussein.
Supplies continued after the war and the emirate recently demanded payment of $500 million after calculating the amount at a preferential price of $21 a barrel, al-Sana was quoted as saying.
DEFENCE PACT
US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld responded with a tough-worded letter saying that Washington had liberated the emirate from Iraqi occupation in 1991, and because it enjoys a fiscal surplus there is no need to demand the payment.
Annoyed by the harsh response, the Kuwaiti government summoned US Ambassador Richard LeBaron in protest.
Later, the US administration offered to pay $7 a barrel, al-Sana added.
Al-Sana's account was confirmed by the parliamentary source, who said Kuwait may soon dispatch its foreign and energy ministers to Washington to settle the dispute.
Some 25,000 US troops are stationed in Kuwait, which also served as a launchpad for the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003.
US-led forces in Iraq use the emirate as a transit point during rotations. They also use Kuwaiti ports, air and naval bases regularly almost free of charge.
Kuwait is tied in a 10-year defence pact with the United States which expires in 2012.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/350FB8C0-11C5-41A1-BC13-C493E891050B.htm?GUID={D3FD4127-696E-4BAE-983C-F334A6604624}

More at:
http://www.atsnn.com/story/127585.html


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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. WTF....
...we are SO far through the looking glass I can no longer guess who's lying to whom....
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devinsgram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
65. Isn't that the truth. So many lies, so little time.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
69. The spin comes at us faster than ...
a Koran flushing down a toilet.
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kittenpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #69
103. That may be the funniest thing I've read here n/t
:rofl:
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I TRULY saw this one coming. But no kudos for me, it was an absolute
no-brainer.

Think they'll swallow it?
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. They will swallow and choke
too late, no one read retractions.
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NeoConsSuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
99. If they're your typical american
they would swallow it. They're not.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. is newsweek a war criminal now like bushco?
so hundreds or thousands of religious loonies injured, perhaps hundreds dead, all because of newsweek and its phony articles + religious fundies obscene adherence to their beliefs?

Msongs
www.msongs.com
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hmmmm... tell me again why careful reporting and checking of sources...
... is important?

*Sigh.*

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. I smell some strong-arm tactics having been practiced on
Newsweek. It won't matter, the story, fact or not, is out there and NO ONE is going to believe any retraction, certainly not in those countries that are outraged.
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liveoaktx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I smell it too-they "May" have erred...
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
145. This is afterall the same magazine that denied Joe Klein
was the "anonymous" writer of Primary Colors.

Yesterday, Joe Klein, who regularly uses his Newsweek column to berate President Clinton as an unreliable, immature, promiscuous baby-boomer, confessed that he was, after all, the author of the novel "Primary Colors," the purportedly "thinly-veiled account" of Clinton's 1992 campaign. Klein, who had repeatedly and adamantly denied that he was Anonymous, finally acknowledged that he had lied -- to his workmates, to his friends and to the public he professes to serve.

http://archive.salon.com/media/media960718.html

Why not flush Newsweek down the toilet?
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. agree!!!
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. That's my thought, too.
They're being TOLD to retract the story.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Gee, we're sorry we started a bloodbath....based on bad intelligence.
Common theme among excuses these days ain't it?


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Last Lemming Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Too bad
Newsweek has actually done some significant reporting. . . No more
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Catt03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. Confused
I don't know whether to believe Newsweek erred or that they now want to back off.

Who wrote the original...anyone know?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
67. See post 12 - Michael Isikoff, very gutsy & respected
Edited on Sun May-15-05 06:13 PM by Tinoire
See post 12 by BrklynLiberal

He's a regular at Democracy Now and has done some very respected, award-winning work. You can get a feel for him in this interview Attorney General Nominee Gonzales Advised CIA on "Acceptable" Torture Techniques

and here:



    White House Tries to Blame CIA For Rejecting Iraqi Offer on Eve of War
    New reports say the U.S. rejected an offer from Iraqi representatives to stop the invasion of Iraq by giving the U.S. rights to Iraqi oil, to hold elections in Iraq, to allow for an intensive search for WMDs and to hand over an Iraqi man who was connected to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.

    Listen to Democracy Now interview here: http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=webactive/demnow/dn20031106.ra&start=08:44.9

    The New York Times and Newsweek are reporting that the Bush administration rebuffed a last minute deal from Saddam Hussein to stop the invasion of Iraq. According to the reports, Iraqi representatives offered to give the U.S. rights to Iraqi oil, to hold elections in Iraq, to allow for an intensive search for weapons of mass destruction and to hand over an Iraqi man who was connected to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.
    Iraq also agreed to support the U.S. so-called war on terrorism and back any U.S.-written Middle East peace proposal.

    The offer came about through back-channel negotiations between a Lebanese-American businessman, Pentagon advisor Richard Perle and the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service.

    Perle told The New York Times that he met with the Lebanese-businessman but the CIA refused to pursue the negotiations further.



    Michael Isikoff, investigative correspondent for Newsweek.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5170.htm




    He's broken many of this administrations scandals and did some fair reporting on the Clinton/Lewinsky story


    Michael Isikoff, Investigative Correspondent
    Updated: 1:53 p.m. ET April 28, 2005

    Michael Isikoff joined Newsweek as an Investigative Correspondent in June 1994. He has written extensively on the U.S. governments war on terrorism, the Abu Ghraib scandal, campaign-finance and congressional ethics abuses, presidential politics and other national issues. He is also the co-author of the weekly online Web column Terror Watch, which won the 2005 award from the Society of Professional Journalists for best investigative reporting online. The column repeatedly breaks major stories and sheds light on important trends, making Terror Watch a must read for senior U.S. intelligence officials, congressional staffers and other media organizations.


    Ever since the events of September 11, Isikoff has broken repeated stories about the U.S. governments war on terror and won numerous journalism awards. Isikoffs June 2002 Newsweek cover story on U.S. intelligence failures that preceded the 9-11 terror attacks, along with a series of related articles, was honored with the Investigative Reporters and Editors top prize for investigative reporting in magazine journalism. He was honored, along with a team of Newsweek reporters, by the Society of Professional Journalists for his coverage of the Abu Ghraib scandal. For that coverage, Isikoff obtained exclusive internal White House, Justice Department and State Department memos showing how decisions made at the highest levels of the Bush administration led to abuses in the interrogation of terror suspects. Isikoff was a part of the Newsweek team that won the Overseas Press Clubs most prestigious award, the 2001 Ed Cunningham Memorial Award for best magazine reporting from abroad for Newsweeks coverage of the war on terror. The reporting by Isikoff and his Newsweek colleagues also earned Newsweek the National Magazine Award for General Excellence in 2002, the highest award in magazine journalism, for their coverage of the aftermath of the September 11 terror attacks.

    Isikoffs exclusive reporting on the Monica Lewinsky scandal gained him national attention in 1998, including profiles in The New York Times and The Washington Post and a guest appearance on Late Show with David Letterman. His coverage of the events that lead to President Bill Clintons impeachment earned Newsweek the prestigious National Magazine Award in the Reporting category in 1999. Isikoffs reporting also won the National Headliner Award, the Edgar A. Poe Award presented by the White House Correspondents Association and the Gerald R. Ford Journalism Prize for Reporting on the Presidency. In 2001, Isikoff was named on a list of the most influential journalists in the nations capital by Washingtonian magazine.

    (snip)

    Isikoff came to Newsweek from The Washington Post, where he had been a reporter since September 1981. There he covered the Justice Department and the Persian Gulf War, reported on international drug operations in Latin America and worked on the Posts financial news desk. Before joining the Post, he was a reporter with the now-defunct Washington Star.

    Isikoff graduated from Washington University with a B.A. in 1974 and received a Masters in Journalism from Northwestern Universitys Medill School of Journalism in 1976.


    www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4863599/site/newsweek
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. So all of these people lied -
"Pentagon Probes Detainee Reports Of Koran Dumping

By John Mintz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 14, 2005; Page A16

Some Muslims detained at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have complained that U.S. soldiers dumped their Korans into the toilet. After riots this week in Afghanistan that were sparked by reports of the allegations, Pentagon officials said they are investigating.

But top U.S. military officials said they have not confirmed any such desecrations of the Islamic holy book at Guantanamo Bay. Defiling the Koran or otherwise showing disrespect for the detainees' Muslim faith is strictly against U.S. policy at the prison, military officials said.

Earlier this year, lawyers representing Kuwaitis held at Guantanamo said their clients told them that military police threw at least one Koran into a toilet. A released Afghan named Ehsannullah told The Washington Post in 2003 that U.S. soldiers taunted him by doing the same thing. Three Britons released last year also said Korans were put into toilets by U.S. guards.

Riots began in Afghanistan and Pakistan this week in part because of a Newsweek report that military investigators had confirmed allegations by FBI agents on detainee abuse, including an incident in which at least one Koran was thrown into a toilet. But military sources said yesterday that FBI agents made no such allegation and that the military did not look into Koran desecration."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. The story as told by NEWSWEEK: HOW A FIRE BROKE OUT
How a Fire Broke Out
The story of a sensitive NEWSWEEK report about alleged abuses at Guantnamo Bay and a surge of deadly unrest in the Islamic world.

May 23 issue - By the end of the week, the rioting had spread from Afghanistan throughout much of the Muslim world, from Gaza to Indonesia. Mobs shouting "Protect our Holy Book!" burned down government buildings and ransacked the offices of relief organizations in several Afghan provinces. The violence cost at least 15 lives, injured scores of people and sent a shudder through Washington, where officials worried about the stability of moderate regimes in the region.

The spark was apparently lit at a press conference held on Friday, May 6, by Imran Khan, a Pakistani cricket legend and strident critic of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf. Brandishing a copy of that week's NEWSWEEK (dated May 9), Khan read a report that U.S. interrogators at Guantnamo prison had placed the Qur'an on toilet seats and even flushed one. "This is what the U.S. is doing," exclaimed Khan, "desecrating the Qur'an." His remarks, as well as the outraged comments of Muslim clerics and Pakistani government officials, were picked up on local radio and played throughout neighboring Afghanistan. Radical Islamic foes of the U.S.-friendly regime of Hamid Karzai quickly exploited local discontent with a poor economy and the continued presence of U.S. forces, and riots began breaking out last week.

Late last week Pentagon spokesman Lawrence DiRita told NEWSWEEK that its original story was wrong. The brief PERISCOPE item ("SouthCom Showdown") had reported on the expected results of an upcoming U.S. Southern Command investigation into the abuse of prisoners at Gitmo. According to NEWSWEEK, SouthCom investigators found that Gitmo interrogators had flushed a Qur'an down a toilet in an attempt to rattle detainees. While various released detainees have made allegations about Qur'an desecration, the Pentagon has, according to DiRita, found no credible evidence to support them.

How did NEWSWEEK get its facts wrong? And how did the story feed into serious international unrest? While continuing to report events on the ground, NEWSWEEK interviewed government officials, diplomats and its own staffers, and reconstructed this narrative of events:

At NEWSWEEK, veteran investigative reporter Michael Isikoff's interest had been sparked by the release late last year of some internal FBI e-mails that painted a stark picture of prisoner abuse at Guantnamo. Isikoff knew that military investigators at Southern Command (which runs the Guantnamo prison) were looking into the allegations. So he called a longtime reliable source, a senior U.S. government official who was knowledgeable about the matter. The source told Isikoff that the report would include new details that were not in the FBI e-mails, including mention of flushing the Qur'an down a toilet. A SouthCom spokesman contacted by Isikoff declined to comment on an ongoing investigation, but NEWSWEEK National Security Correspondent John Barry, realizing the sensitivity of the story, provided a draft of the NEWSWEEK PERISCOPE item to a senior Defense official, asking, "Is this accurate or not?" The official challenged one aspect of the story: the suggestion that Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, sent to Gitmo by the Pentagon in 2001 to oversee prisoner interrogation, might be held accountable for the abuses. Not true, said the official (the PERISCOPE draft was corrected to reflect that). But he was silent about the rest of the item. The official had not meant to mislead, but lacked detailed knowledge of the SouthCom report.
<snip>

more....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. ah, so it was "Spikey" Isikoff who started this....
...that's sort of ironic and amusing, considering how he carried water for the BFEE in the stalking of the Clintons.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. Desecration is in line with their tactics. Remember the "menses"
incident at Gitmo and the sexual taunting at Abu Ghraib? All were aimed at their religious beliefs.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. and Abu Ghraib tactics were imported from Gitmo
This sounds like standard operating procedure to me.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. We need to write to newsweek and ask if Rove got to them.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Is this a rove misinformation campaign like what happened to Rather? nt
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eternalburn Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. That is my first thought as well (nt)
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. that's creepy
get all the clerics to declare Jihad so we can nuke them all? Or just give chimp the -- "oh, my God, they are coming after us" terror/poll jump edge?
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
134. Fake info to discredit media?
Certainly not impossible. The right wing noise machine will run with this.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. The investigation is at work, I see
"PRINT A GODDAMN RETRACTION OR YOUR DOG DIES" - Mysterious man on the phone.

"Who the hell is this?" - Newsweek editor

*gunshot through the window*

"Okay! Okay! I'll do what I can! Holy shit!"

"WELCOME TO DICK CHENEY'S AMERICA!"
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makhno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yeah, sure it was false
Edited on Sun May-15-05 01:48 PM by makhno
More accurately described as: "If we'd known the shit this was going to start, we would've sat on the information, as we do most of the time."

Fucking scumbags don't deserve to be called journalists.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
61. Close, but not quite, more like
"If we'd known more about the culture and religion of those who this affects and the inevitable, violent shit this was going to start, we would've sat on the information, as we do most of the time."

The cultural ignorance amazes me. OTOH, why am I surprised? Ignorance (and arrogance, which goes hand in hand with cultural ignorance) is the hallmark of this administration and far too much of its military.
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makhno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. They probably didn't even think about it
Even after the fact.

The saddest part is that from now "responsible journalism" will kick in whenever a story will have the potential to further alienate part of the world from the US due to some sad fuck up on the part of our government. Bye bye, fourth estate, nice knowing ya.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Not to flame you...
...Cuz I know you don't mean you would do that if you thought it might A.Be reported. B.cause at least 15 deaths to date. and C.Start 300 calls for Jihad. Right???
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. Right
I'd never want my question asking to lead to someone getting killed.

Yet, if someone did get killed because of a bunch of idiots rioting and killing each other, I'd do it again.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
95. When they tried to kill THEMSELVES in protest
why didn't the guys on your team simply let them die?

Weren't done torturing them?
36 hour erection from Cialis still going strong eh?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #95
112. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Finder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Agree, that is the best way to identify the extremists.
That is why females were used in some interrogations as well.

Disclaimer(I am not talking about the torture/abuses that get overshadowed by this stuff)
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
98. It is the best way to CREATE extremists.
Lets see what your mother has to say after we show her pictures of you with Lynndie England's menstrual blood all over your face.

Hey, its just a joke.
Sheesh.
You guys are no fun.
Rush waned me about your lack of humor.
You are not supposed to get all mad
and go out and bomb shit over a little fraternity prank like that.
Its not like someone wiped their ass on the Second Amendment
or anything serious like that.

Liberals and Muslims are such EXTREMISTS.
Always wanting to count the votes and keep the Geneva Conventions...
Why can't they be more like US?

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/image/0,1587,1210664_6,00.jpg
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. And exactly what is that going to accomplish? They're going to gush forth
with info after that?

No, they're going to hate your guts.



Try this:
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2003_10_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#106675794843454837
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. I'm saying this administration has done wonders in keeping itself...
ignorant of the customs and culture of the Arabs and the Middle East.


Ends justify the means.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
96. What about the Torah? gonna rip that one up too?
Lets see you go desecrate the Talmud,
or even better,
the Zohar.

I am not sure that anyone here will be able to stand the sight of you when THOSE guys get done with you.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. it's only a fucking book to you
but to other people it's more than that. And those are the people this is about.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. In my opinion, it should only be a fookin book to everyone
and if you're ready to die as a human being over a book, then line up and accept death, because that thought is foolish, and what with space running out, we don't have space for fools
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. fine, you want everyone to believe the way you do
and you think people who believe other than you are fools.

Well, you're not alone anyway.
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oxbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. It's like someone ripping up the constitution
Edited on Sun May-15-05 03:33 PM by oxbow
I know that would get a reaction out of me. It's not the book, etc itself so much as what that thing stands for. It's almost an involuntary reaction.


It is annoying that innocents getting killed by cluster bombs sparks no reaction and this incident does though. People have their priorities ass-backwards. Life trumps everything else.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Life triumphs everything else, tell that to the Catholic Church
Tell it to Galileo, tell it to Da Vinci
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allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #39
123. Did you pick that up in "A People without Space"?
Or in "Mein Kampf"?

The Nazis used the same "argument" to "justify" the killing of mentally handicapped people.

I don't think we should ever use fascist imagery, even jokingly.

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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. It's not the book that's important, it's the disrespect of the culture.
On the other hand, books have represented a lot of things throughout history. What they are is the pure manifestation of thought - ideas. That's why so many have been heaped upon a pyre. Books can change the world - for better, or worse.

Where you believe people who revere a book to the point they will die for it deserve as much, there are people in the world who believe you should die for being incapable of such reverence. Believe what you will. I believe in respect for people's beliefs.

Flushing what some believe to be holy down a toilet is really not a way to win hearts and minds, now is it? It's probably not very helpful in gaining information, either. I'm sure it's a good way to make a terrorist, though. It's like pissing on an oil fire. Things go every which way, out of control, starting fires where they're least expected. This incident, true, or not, is case in point.

I know, if somebody wanted to know something from me and they desecrated what I felt was the most holy of holies, in order to get me to talk, it would merely further solidify my belief they were the opposite of holy - i.e. evil - and would strengthen my resolve against them. Desecrater = evil = evil gets nothing from me. I doubt my thought processes are much different than anyone else's.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #50
109. It's a stupid book, just like the rest of them
Your reply is as irrelevent as any silly book. *rip* *tear* *smash* *recycle*

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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
70. and you would have been behaving the same way the nazis did
they felt the same way, it's only a book, bad ones at that.

persecuting one for their religion is hideous.

peace
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #70
108. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
94. You're HIRED!!!


Son,
what do you know about sodomy?
Nah, not giving, receiving.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #94
107. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. So you DO dare to *rip* *tear* *smash* *recycle* the TORAH!!
And you DO claim that the TORAH is
"as irrelevent as any silly book."

PAGING LARRY FRANKLIN.
Come in Larry.
We have a nudnik.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
104. And if you just had too...
Edited on Sun May-15-05 08:55 PM by PsychoDad
You'd shove that flashlight up his anus and pile him and others up naked in a pile..

Anything to make him tell you what you want to hear.

After all, he's just one of millions.

I guess that would make you a patriot in this administration.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
120. No flames from me.
Edited on Sun May-15-05 10:57 PM by kimchi
Fundies are the same here as there. It pains them more to see a book desecrated or defamed than a human tortured, killed, starved, maimed.

The whole world is mad.

on edit: Before everyone jumps on me along with DS1--I am NOT condoning interrogation, torture, disrespecting cultures, etc. Just an observation of human nature.


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clem_c_rock Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Newsweek - nice try - now go fuck yourselves
Maybe, when we actually do sometimes tell the truth about what we're doing in the world and it causes reactions such as this

IT MIGHT BE AN INDICATION THAT WE'RE BEHAVING LIKE PSYCHOPATHS.

Goddamn - when people are making comparisons to the B* regime and Hitler, they just seem more credible every day.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
23. nominated
Because they didn't get it that the backspin will not work
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. Orders from head office
The BFEE told them that "people better be careful what they print", and corporate headquarters said, "sure thing, we'll issue a non-retraction retraction". Thus the vague "we may have been wrong". Big corporate media can't be trusted to tell the truth. Occasionally a sort of unconscious reflex exerts itself though, which is quickly slapped down by head office. They are now propaganda organs, plain and simple.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
27. newsweek committed the only cardinal sin.
they printed the truth.

now they will have to pay.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. They're apologizing for something they MAY have done?
Edited on Sun May-15-05 02:50 PM by rocknation
And what in the world does it mean to be "not sure where he saw the assertion?" Either the desecration was witnessed or it wasn't--surely Newsweek asked that obvious question. It's possible that Newsweek got "Rathered," but I think it's far more like that their arms got twisted by the Bush White House.

:headbang:
rocknation
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. They are trying to print a retraction without retracting anything
also known as "having your cake and eating it, too"
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. so did this retraction . . . unlike any other . . . make
Edited on Sun May-15-05 02:46 PM by ellenfl
the front page? if it did, you can be sure the retraction is false. retractions NEVER make the 'front page'.

ellen fl
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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. No doubt,
Retractions are always exiled to the bottom of the page somewhere deep in the paper/mag.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
37. The Propaganda Ministry at 1600 Pennsylvania was NOT pleased
So Newsmeek must have "erred".
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
101. 1600 didn't care one whit about ripping up the Koran
until the Muslims went and said:

R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T


and then socked it them so HARD that everything went BOOM.

:nuke:
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
44. The Genie
has l-o-n-g since left the bottle... :eyes:
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
45. This is total BullSh*t!
I think, what they are REALLY saying is, "We're sorry we caused so much trouble, by reporting what happened."

That, if true, is the truly the BS part of this story.:banghead:
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
48. Not bullsh*t more like bushsh*t
This has bush's finger prints ALL over it.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
49. This has Evan Thomas' fingerprints all over it n/t
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
51. Newsweek Apologizes for Quran Story Errors
NEW YORK - Newsweek magazine has apologized for errors in a story alleging that interrogators at the U.S. detention center in Guantanamo Bay desecrated the Quran, saying it would re-examine the accusations, which sparked outrage and deadly protests in Afghanistan.

Fifteen people died and scores were injured in violence between protesters and security forces, prompting U.S. promises to investigate the allegations.

"We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Newsweek Editor Mark Whitaker wrote in a note to readers.

In an issue dated May 9, the magazine reported that U.S. military investigators had found evidence that interrogators placed copies of Islam's holy book in washrooms and had flushed one down the toilet to get inmates to talk.

snip


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/newsweek_quran

Oh, swell. People killed, riots everywhere - so now it was all a mistake?
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Whoops - very similar to another story posted - still worth
reading, I think.
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CarefullyLiberal Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. As well they should...
Irresponsible journalism at it's finest.

Sheesh.

-Fergus
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Were they lying before or are they lying now? My guess is now n/t
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Do you think they'll buy it?
Please no jihad! We boo boo!
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Archduke Franz Ferdinand may not have been assassinated!
WWI prevented. All is well.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. So the media lapdogs volunteer to take the blame for this one
Edited on Sun May-15-05 04:48 PM by Julius Civitatus
Call me cynical, but this is too fishy. They've been reporting (for a couple of weeks now) that interrogators in Gitmo used copies of the Koran to torture inmates, and flushed pages of it down the toilet in interrogations. It had already been reported that interrogators there (as well as in Abu Grahib) had used practices that clashed with islam in order to psychologically intimidate prisoners (prostitutes and menstrual fluids, nakedness, forced simulations of sexual positions, naked pyramids, etc). For some reason, flushing down pages of their holy books seem to fit the pattern.

Steadily, the release of this news creates a shitstorm in some of the most fundamentalist countries. Riots, clashes, and disorder as a result.

Suddenly, Newsweek comes out and falls on its sword. "Sorry, our bad!"

Bullshit! They are playing the "good soldier" and being told what to say, instead of sticking to their journalistic principles. Oh, yeah! Principles! That's such a pre-9/11 concept, isn't it...
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
56. Is this a joke?
"a review of the military's investigation concluded "it was never meant to look into charges of Quran desecration. "

"Stephen Hadley said in an interview for CNN's "Late Edition" that the allegations were being investigated "vigorously."

didn't bother looking into the charges = vigorously investigated?
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. this is a Republican newspaper its obvious Bush is pushing
the Islamics to a Holy War!!!
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
58. The photos from Abu Ghraib prison were an error too. Trust us n/t
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. Precisely. n/t
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
62. Huh? What do they think we are, idiots? n/t
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. Yyyyyup. n/t
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
64. I wonder why the world is so ready to believe
Newsweek's Koran story?

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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
72. Newsweek says Koran desecration report is wrong
By David Morgan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newsweek magazine said on Sunday it erred in a May 9 report that U.S. interrogators desecrated the Koran at Guantanamo Bay, and apologised to the victims of deadly Muslim protests sparked by the article.

Editor Mark Whitaker said the magazine inaccurately reported that U.S. military investigators had confirmed that personnel at the detention facility in Cuba had flushed the Muslim holy book down the toilet.

The report sparked angry and violent protests across the Muslim world from Afghanistan, where 16 were killed and more than 100 injured, to Pakistan to Indonesia to Gaza. In the past week it was condemned in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, Malaysia and by the Arab League.

On Sunday, Afghan Muslim clerics threatened to call for a holy war against the United States.

"We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Whitaker wrote in the magazine's latest issue, due to appear on U.S. newsstands on Monday.

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5787008&cKey=1116198315000
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Are you kidding me?
This is a joke, right? 16 people killed because of sloppy reporting?
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FtWayneBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. I think the first report was correct, but
pressure was brought to bear on the magazine to lyingly retract the statements.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. No, Newsweek is not saying their report is wrong
Edited on Sun May-15-05 07:03 PM by Robbien
Just that they were wrong to report it before the military "investigated" the claim.

edit: and we all know what happens when the military investigates itself.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. These allegations are over a year old.
"(AFP) But the Newsweek report was only the latest in a series of allegations by detainees that go back at least to March 2004 when three British detainees were released from Guantanamo.

The three Britons alleged in a joint statement that Guantanamo guards kicked and threw around prison-issued Korans and on occasion threw them in buckets that served as toilets."


Newsweek "reported" it because they say they got confirmation from a non-detainee.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #81
135. Read this carefully folks ...
> The three Britons alleged in a joint statement that Guantanamo guards
> kicked and threw around prison-issued Korans and on occasion threw
> them in buckets that served as toilets."

It is perfectly truthful to say that "guards threw a Koran into the toilet".
It is not truthful to say that "guards flushed a Koran down the toilet".

Check the wording on the Newsweek article.

I strongly suspect that this is why the Newsweek "retraction" is worded
the way it is: one or more copies of the Koran *WERE* thrown into a
toilet (thus the grievous insult to Islam) but they were *not* flushed
down a toilet (thus the "retraction").

Pressure from the Bush administration would ensure that no-one would
try to clarify the truthful details if they expected to see their next
birthday (or their children or whatever).

Even the most honest reporter has to consider their loved ones when
the stakes get this high.

Nihil
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Sounds like an even bigger
insult is in the making.
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rayofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #74
92. Andres Serrano...
...where are you?

Piss Koran anyone?

Now that would cause riots and produce a fatwah or two. After all, poor old Salman Rushdie only wrote allegorical stories and is still under sentance of death. Where are our brave artists, willing to take on islamic fanatics? Could it be that they know that Christian fanatics will shout, scream, cut funding, and in the end go home whereas the islamic response would be a bit more "existential"?


And how would we rate poor old Newsweek if they ran a story identifying a criminal as black, that this produced racist vigilantism, then later, in Emily Litella style, they said "Never mind!"
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #92
121. "Piss Koran"
Rather a propos, given that the book went into the pisser. rayofreason strikes again. lol

I have had a bit of trouble trying to visualize how a Koran could be flushed, anyway. Seems it would present the same logistical problems as trying to flush a phone book.

Peace.
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cyr330 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. So they say?
I don't believe a word of that ass-wipe rag they put out. I was just perusing its pages at the bookstore down the street, and, as usual, it was filled with nothing but shitty fluff pieces that they tried to pass off as "serious journalism."
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. Muslims are sure to believe this.
Not.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #77
83. Probably, goal of retraction isn't calming Muslims, it's koolaid drinkers
who might be waivering ever so slightly in their faith. Any doubts in the budding little minds that Bush's 'war on terra' might be counterproductive can now be shifted neatly back to blaming the 'kneejerk lying liberal media'.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Agreed.
The world will treat this as propaganda, as will intelligent Americans.
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
79. like Muslims are mad at newsweek
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NeoConsSuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. Thinking the same thing..
so they should put the retraction in their next issue. And when it arrives at Afghan newsstands, then calm will prevail. LOL!
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #84
91. they reported a truth
just like george's lost days of military duty. diversion
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. To report the news accurately
and then go back and report the news inaccurately to quiet the angered is a waste of time. Theyll never believe it anyway.

Look for this to bring more propaganda to the news room, leaving out details that offend anyone.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
82. "DiRita exploded: 'People are dead because of what this son of a bitch sai
And no. He wasn't talking about bush, cheney, rumsfeld, or boykin!

snip>
Newsweek reported an even angrier reaction from the Pentagon spokesman, Lawrence DiRita to the article. Told that an anonymous government official had insisted to a reporter that he clearly recalled investigative reports describing "a toilet incident" -- but might have been confused about where exactly he saw this -- the magazine said, "DiRita exploded: 'People are dead because of what this son of a bitch said. How could he be credible now?' "

http://nytimes.com/2005/05/15/international/asia/15cnd-afghan.html?hp&ex=1116216000&en=c35729128bc1194e&ei=5094&partner=homepage
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. People are dead because of the US torture policy
but the military brass always blames the other guy, or some grunt for the effects of their torture policy.
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DemocracyInaction Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
87. How ironic---this isn't nice of me to say
The Bush regime have used a ploy on us over and over again in their unholy reign. They spread shit which is covered by the salivating media and then clarification comes about ions later and put on the back page. OR...charges against this crime syndicate are brushed off and then when it's found true, the story is on the back page. NOW comes this. As one of you pointed out above..no one pays any attention to retractions. How ironic that they got hit by their own lap dogs. Go retract THAT assholes. You don't have a plunger big enough to get that one out of the commode, baby!!! And just like the lies they used to start war, this is an issue those who hate the US of A have been waiting for to start anti-American riots around the globe. Bush and this media deserve everything they get..and then some.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
88. Yeah, sure. All a "mistake." Never happened. n/t
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
89. This is just TANG redux
Really, the pattern is too predictable. A true story is tagged with a insignificant but incorrect detail and then the entire MSM/VRWC propaganda machine jumps into action to hammer the point home that the entire story is false. And then is disappears. Poof!

If you want to read an excellent analysis read this

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/15/19221/4742

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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. It really doesn't matter now that the toothpaste
is out of the tube. No amount of retractions or back pedaling can undo the damage this incident has caused. Rove and company may get the kool aid drinkers to believe this fake retraction but the angry Muslims certainly aren't going to give chimpy a pass on it. They've screwed the pooch and there is nothing they can do about it now but wait and see how angry they have made the world's Muslim population. JMHO
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
90. They are "Rather-izing" Newsweek
More evidence of the corrupting influence of this evil administration.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
97. So they admit to just making it up?
Just like the war drive, huh?
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. No. They are falling on the sword so that Bush doesn't have to say sorry
They are just admitting to reporting a story based on evidence they had but the military hasn't investigated.

So basically they are saying, sorry we reported news.
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
100. throwing salt on the wound?
in their patch piece, the pentagon blames it on a detainee..


After the rioting began last week, the Pentagon attempted to determine the veracity of the NEWSWEEK story. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Richard Myers told reporters that so far no allegations had been proven. He did appear to cryptically refer to two mentions found in the logs of prison guards in Gitmo: a report that a detainee had used pages of the Qur'an to stop up a crude toilet as a form of protest , and a complaint from a detainee that a prison guard had knocked down a Qur'an hanging in a bag in his cell.


Full:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/page/2/
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BlueStateGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
105. Just more Rovelike BS to distract us from the British Memo. Now watch
how angered John Q. Public will be at Newsweek.

All teh while never once getting angry at our leaders that led us into a war with faulty intelligence.

Oh, wait that's right. The intel was cooked. Too bad the proof of that will never reach the ears of the public, because they are too busy being angry at Newsweek for making this mistake.

So, the next time some truly heinous accusation surfaces, we will all be able to scream " Well, they got it wrong last time"

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Singular73 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #105
114. I dont believe the retraction for a minute..
Remember when they were smearing "menstrual blood" on prisoners?

This is much tamer, IMO.

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theblackfront Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #105
118. Another Rove hit.
Exactly:
Have "unnamed government official" leak some damaging info, most likely based on actual events. S#!T hits the fan, muslims go loco (with good reason; I can imagine FOX puking up a story about "terra-ists" flushing bibles would get christian extremists enraged and more dangerous).Then convieniently negate the story they themselves leaked, forcing Newsweek to retract parts of it but not the important facts, but in turn tarnishing the whole story. They freakin' "Rathered" Newsweek. So now when any more damaging info re: Gitmo etc comes to light, it can all be scoffed at by the media because of this (will they try this with Sy Hersh?).
In Summary:
Newsweek-Lib'rul biased rag "discredited"= Good news for the Right. They can get away with anything if they can appear to destry the reputation of anyone trying to uncover their crimes.

Enraged Muslim world- Good chance of creating more terrorists who will want to kill our military or us over here.This is more good news for the Right. They've just created more badguys to fight and scare us with. They've expanded their anti-american market upwards, ensuring further proper liquidation of acquired negative faiths. If War is a business you don't make money if you dont have anyone to kill. Stir up the pot, piss off the Muslims, make them take a punch, and then blammo. Or as Bill Hicks would say "...go on, pick up the gun."

The thing is, do the media think about this? Do they know they're being played? They continue to do the dance. They need a "This stops now!" epiphany.

Sorry for the bloviating but I did cut out a lot of ranting. I'm still nauseated from when I caught that Tucker Carlson PBS interview with the rightwing PBS honcho, and I could relate in a small way to how the french felt when the germans marched into Paris.
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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
115. I don't know how to word this, to avoid offense... um ...
... I understand the Koran is a holy book to some. I understand the Bible is considered the literal word of God by others. There are other holy books people embrace. I respect other people's right to worship as they see fit, and to read and revere their own versions of God's word.

But I have to say, the fetishization of any one book by the various religions drives me crazy. I believe there is valuable information in all religious books, and that the ULTIMATE TRUTH cannot be found in any ONE particular book.

So many religions so completely fetishize a bunch of printed papers bound together with glue or stitching.

In my belief, the true words of God cannot be contained within one particular book, nor can those words truly be flushed down a toilet. I REALLY DO understand the symbolism of the (now apocryphal) serious insult to Islam as perceived by those protesters. I can understand their fury. But come on!

People are killing other people (and burning cars and embassies) over their obsession with A BOOK. Born-Agains want to deny gays their civil rights because of the fetishization of every word of the Bible, A BOOK. Well, I just think the world would be better off if religions would get over their TOME WORSHIP. I thought studying the word of God was supposed to make people's lives better -- but folks have taken their obsession with The Word to absurd lengths, and people are dying and being harmed in many other ways because of it.

I imagine a world with no divisive organized religions, just as John Lennon imagined it.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #115
136. Think about how offended the wingnuts are over the mere idea
of burning a flag. Similar issue.
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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
116. delete
Edited on Sun May-15-05 10:11 PM by gauguin57
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
117. Radio Netherlands stated point blank that the Pentagon official
was "under pressure" to rethink his story about the flushing of the Koran down the toilet.

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Greylyn58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
119. Too little, too late
Edited on Sun May-15-05 10:50 PM by Greylyn58
but I have a sneaking suspicion that they were told to retract the story.

So...are the pResident and his cronies gonna run Newsweek's reputation into the ground over this mess as was done to Dan Rather or will they be left alone since they seem to serve the pResident when needed.

Jeez...what a mess this one has caused!!! Did these jackasses even think this through before printing such a story. I mean, we're talking about their religious book...think what the whack-jobs in this country would do if a similar story was told involving the Bible.

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funnymanpants Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
122. Newsweek not admitting they are wrong
They are simply saying that the anonymous witness who reported the incident was wrong about the paper work on whether it got reported up the ladder.

See

http://www.juancole.com
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
124. Newsweek says Koran desecration report is wrong
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050516/2005-05-16T002959Z_01_N15405868_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-AFGHAN-NEWSWEEK-DC.html

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newsweek magazine said on Sunday it erred in a May 9 report that U.S. interrogators desecrated the Koran at Guantanamo Bay, and apologized to the victims of deadly Muslim protests sparked by the article.

Editor Mark Whitaker said the magazine inaccurately reported that U.S. military investigators had confirmed that personnel at the detention facility in Cuba had flushed the Muslim holy book down the toilet.

The report sparked angry and violent protests across the Muslim world from Afghanistan, where 16 were killed and more than 100 injured, to Pakistan to Indonesia to Gaza. In the past week it was condemned in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, Malaysia and by the Arab League.

On Sunday, Afghan Muslim clerics threatened to call for a holy war against the United States.

"We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Whitaker wrote in the magazine's latest issue, due to appear on U.S. newsstands on Monday.

The weekly news magazine said in its May 23 edition that the information had come from a "knowledgeable government source" who told Newsweek that a military report on abuse at Guantanamo Bay said interrogators flushed at least one copy of the Koran down a toilet in a bid to make detainees talk.

<SNIP>

Wrong, or someone leaned on someone and told them they were "wrong"??
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lenidog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #124
125. I can't tell you anymore because we have seen some spectacular
disasters in the past few years dealing with the media getting it wrong. I don't know what they are teaching in college journalism school but I don't think its verifying sources or accuracy.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #125
126. They didn't get the story wrong, they are saying sorry for printing
the story because the military hasn't investigated it and confirmed it.

So basically they are saying sorry we printed news.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #124
127. Just playing a dangerous "game" of CYA.
Edited on Mon May-16-05 01:23 AM by SoCalDem
Media (as a group) is so high on itself, that it thinks it can write just about anything, and the public will believe it...skim it.. and then wait with baited breath for next week's expose'.. They blitely report junk that they should NOT, and deliberately leave out things that they SHOULD report..

They are taking the exact posture of a lying adolescent. they "test" their stories, and have a ready lie to cover their tracks if need be..

A bunch of sensation-seeking liars..
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rndmprsn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #124
128. tin foil hat...another rove plant?
i don't put anything beyond this admin anymore...esp after 5-11.
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #124
129. How do you mistakenly report...
a Koran was torn apart flushed down the toilet?
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PennyLane Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #129
130. You Don't..........
......but you can however, retract the story when you realize how much
rath it is inciting.:argh:
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #129
132. Hey, they smear fake menstrual blood on these guys at Gitmo, why wouldn't
they flush a Koran down the toilet as part of their "interrogation" techniques? :shrug:

I don't believe this story was "mistaken"....I believe they are now being pressured to say it was a mistake because the riots and uproar the report has brought....

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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #124
131. Everything be hunky-dory when this hits the ME newsstands. . .
Monday morning. I believe it. I'm sure Abduhl and Abdullah will prove as equally brain dead as me.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #124
133. Let the corporate media counterattack begin
I guess the Dan Rather thing was getting old. Now the fascist talk radio hosts and computer peckers over at townhall.com have months of new material. :eyes:
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Oreo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
137. Disgusting letter to McCain on congress.org
This person actually says they feel like a Jew being led to the Holocaust because they're a Christian and the evil Arabs are coming after us. They demand an apology from the Arabs for the protest deaths

Subject:
flushing koran

To:
Sen. John McCain

May 16, 2005

I am disturbed over the killing of innocent victims by the arab world because of a report of a koran being flushed down a toilet.

The arab world needs to apologize for killing innocent victims.

Why are we playing into their hands, as not to offend them in any way. They are ruthless killers and need to be told this. They are getting away with way too much

This great country wants to tear down any reference to our own heritage, The Holy Bible. Yet, we are so quick to apologize for the flushing of a book; their book. It is insane to kill innocent people because of the book and even more insane to play into their murderous hands. (my note: what of the abortion doctor killings?)

Let's take a stand, please. I feel like a Jew during the Holocaust, being led to slaughter without so much as a wimper. I am not Jewish. I am Christian, but I stand with Israel.

I am afaid for the United STates. We are playing into the hands of the arab world, which is violent and cruel, and has shown that they hate Christians and Jews.

Tucson , AZ
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
138. Well no big bonus for Newsweek this year
Can't have the truth published in this country, and if somehow the truth manages to slip by the CIA censors, well then, some quick strong arm tactics are applied and a member of the so called independent media starts backpedaling furiously.

Sorry, this little apology doesn't pass the smell test. Too late, despite what Newsweek does, they have actually printed the truth. Probably for the last time.
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Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
139. Bushit!
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
140. AP: Newsweek Apologizes for Quran Story Errors
Edited on Mon May-16-05 08:37 AM by paineinthearse
Newsweek Apologizes for Quran Story Errors
By DINO HAZELL, Associated Press Writer
5 hours ago

NEW YORK - In an apology to readers this week, Newsweek acknowledged errors in a story alleging U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay desecrated the Quran. The accusations, which the magazine vowed to re-examine, spawned protests in Afghanistan that left 15 dead and scores injured. Responding to harsh criticism from Muslim leaders worldwide, the Pentagon promised to investigate the charges and pinned the deadly clashes on Newsweek for what it described as "irresponsible" reporting. "We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Editor Mark Whitaker wrote in the apology.

Newsweek reported that U.S. military investigators had found evidence that interrogators placed copies of Islam's holy book in washrooms and had flushed one down the toilet to get inmates to talk. Whitaker wrote that the magazine's information came from "a knowledgeable U.S. government source," and writers Michael Isikoff and John Barry had sought comment from two Defense Department officials. One declined to respond, and the other challenged another part of the story but did not dispute the Quran charge, Whitaker said. But on Friday, a top Pentagon spokesman told the magazine that a review of the military's investigation concluded "it was never meant to look into charges of Quran desecration. The spokesman also said the Pentagon had investigated other desecration charges by detainees and found them 'not credible.'"

Whitaker added that the magazine's original source later said he could not be sure he read about the alleged Quran incident in the report Newsweek cited, and that it might have been in another document. "Top administration officials have promised to continue looking into the charges, and so will we," Whitaker wrote.

Newsweek Washington Bureau Chief Daniel Klaidman said the magazine believes it erred in reporting the allegation that a prison guard tried to flush the Quran down a toilet and that military investigators had confirmed the accusation. "The issue here is to get the truth out, to acknowledge as quickly as possible what happened, and that's what we're trying to do," Klaidman told the "CBS Evening News" on Sunday.

more........

I have found Isikoff to be fair, accurate and cutting edge. I smell a well-orchestrated Rove misinformation plant and pentagon complicity.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
141. Contact Newsweek here...tell them they're NOT the problem!!!
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #141
148. My letter to Newsweek
Remember DeForest B. Soaries' plan to cancel the 2004 election?

Editor:

Having broken the Paula Jones sexual-harassment case and the Monika Lewinsky story, I have found Mr. Isikoff's reporting to be fair to both sides of the political spectrum, accurate and cutting edge.

However, after five years of lies and misinformation eminating from the political offices within the White House, I do smell yet another rat. Perhaps this one is in retribution for Mr. Isikoff breaking the story that the Bush administration was looking into strategies to cancel the Presidential election, in the event of terrorist attacks on or near Election Day. Recall Commissioner DeForest B. Soaries' letter to Secretary of Homeland Security Ridge, requesting legal review of a plan cancel the 2004 elections. Perhaps not being aware that Mr. Soaries' letter was in the public domain, Condoleezza Rice blatantly lied to the press, denying any such plan existed, stating that "no one is thinking of postponing the elections".

Newsweek should not be backpeddling due to politcal pressure exerted by the assistant chief of staff or any other member of the administration, rather it should be supporting its reporter and investigating Bush administration's media practices much deeper
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #141
150. Read this before writing to Newsweek
Auto-reply received after submitting my letter

1. HOW DO I GET A LETTER PUBLISHED IN NEWSWEEK?

We receive over 1,000 faxes, e-mail messages and pieces of mail every week, most of it from readers responding to one of our stories. Because there is a premium on space in the Letters column, we can only publish a small number of these letters. Many good letters cannot be used simply because of the limited space available. In order to expedite the selection process, please include the DATE and TITLE of the article to which your letter refers in the subject-heading of your message. Please refrain from sending multiple copies of the same message. E-mail messages that do not address material printed in a recent issue of Newsweek are rarely considered for publication, nor are letters that are more than a paragraph or two. We cannot open e-mail attachments of any kind, and will not consider mass e-mails or letters sent to multiple addresses.

If your letter is considered for the Letters column and there are editing questions, we will contact you by phone. For this reason, it is important that you include a daytime phone number. It is also important that you include your city and state (or province and country), since we print that information under each letter writer's name. We do not print e-mail addresses in our column. Newsweek reserves the right to edit all letters for space and clarity, and letters may appear in electronic versions of Newsweek.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #150
151. Nuts...got that back, too.
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ausiedownunderground Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
142. This "desecration" of the Koran was "outted" months ago!
When "The Bush Gang" released one of our Oz prisoners incarcerated at "Gitmo" they stupidly chose the real muslim, not the Anglo-Saxon, and he cried foul about the interrogation tactics adopted by the US torturers. His greatest cry was about the Muslim "holy book" being used as, in his words - Toilet paper and Christian women's mensturation pads! Now to a good Christian Anglo-Saxon - So What! But obviously to a devout Muslim male population - WTF!!!! These tactics might have worked in "Gitmo" but they sure haven't worked anywhere else in the world!
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #142
144. I guess you still get real news there in Oz?
How I miss that.
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
143. Here's What Pisses Me Off
Edited on Mon May-16-05 08:54 AM by RobinA
Knowing the climate that they are operating in, why don't these news outlets make their stories of this nature bulletproof BEFORE they print them. Every time somebody reports one of these stories prematurely and the administration manages to rub their faces in some inaccuracy, the entire story becomes a joke with no credibilty. The Rather incident took TANG off the table forever, despite the fact that those (maybe) fabricated documents told a real story.

Now here we go again. This is going to go down to the average US citizen as "Tales of torture and mistreatment in prisons exaggerrated and mis-reported by the librul media." So every story will be discounted.

Note to media: Get the facts straight, then get them straight again, report in precise language saying exactly what you mean, and then when Rove comes after you, tell him to fire away at your story, you're standing by it. How many retractions and reporter firings did the Washington Post suffer reporting Watergate? None? Think nobody tried?
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
146. Now Bush INC will push
Edited on Mon May-16-05 09:17 AM by insane_cratic_gal
harder the propaganda machine that is the MSM. SO this bad all around

I doubt they got anything wrong, (my hubby was in Guantanamo in 2001) combat camera he said "I can't even speak about what they did to them." He has video upstairs I ought to go dig for it!! It's not classified but its not releasable to the press either. "Sensitive."

Sounds like they are back paddling because of the political pressure and the violence that surged up from it.

after thought: Didn't England use red marker on her fingers to indicate menstraul blood then touch her subject? This is just another example of their muslim beliefs being used against them in a interrogation room.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
147. They didn't get it wrong
They caved to Bush pressure.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
149. Why is it when the truth escapes, the media feels obliged to apologize.
I think we are seeing the dismantling of our media by bushco. This morning there are cries for 'government control' of the media. FUCKING BRILLIANT IDEA!!!!! God help us all.:sarcasm:
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
152. the reporting on this story is bullshit. this is not a retraction, it stil
saying the say shit. a source told us that they read about the incident either in the official report or a incident report. they are not saying that it did not happen, but that someone has reported to higher ups that this happened.

what you wanna bet that it did happen, and they are now trying to find a way to bury the story. one of the earlier post said that people don't read retractions. well they are right except it will be the confirmation story that the koran incident did happen that will not get reported.
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