Editor of Catholic magazine sacked by the Vatican

[DoYouEverWonder]

May 6, 2005

The editor of "America," an influential Catholic weekly magazine, has been sacked on orders from the Vatican, which threatened to impose a "board of censors" to oversee the magazine if he stayed, according to the National Catholic Reporter.

"He was forced out," NCR editor Tom Roberts said of the Rev. Thomas Reese, S.J., who had run "America" for seven years. Frequently quoted in the secular press, Reese also had been a CNN commentator during the funeral of Pope John Paul II and the election of Pope Benedict XVI.

Reese declined to comment Friday.

The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly run by the new pope, had pressured to get rid of Reese "for about five years," Roberts said. A source told the paper that it had issued an ultimatum, "that either Reese goes or they would appoint a board of censors."

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/manhattan/nyc-cath0507,0,4117388.story?coll=nyc-moreny-headlines

Way to go Popa Ratzi. How many more liberal and moderate voices are you going to silence before you are through?

[democracyindanger]

1. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith = the Inquisition

Seriously. It is, in fact, the Inquisition.

[burrowowl]

3. Yes, it is.

However, they don't use the rack, dunk buckets, drawn and quartered, etc. anymore.

[democracyindanger]

6. It's all political pressure and pink slips these days

There's a comfy chair/fluffy pillows joke, but I decided to forgo it.

[burrowowl]

9. Uhm!

No sex threads?

[democracyindanger]

12. Hee--Monty Python

[Spinzonner]

10. Ah, Those were the good old days

http://www.poplyrics.net/waiguo/soundtrack/damnyankees/012.htm

[The Icon Painter]

15. They never did

They always farmed it out to the secular forces. Sort of like Zippy sending prisoners off to less fastidious countries for questioning.

[Lerkfish]

2. to your last question: ALL of them, obviously.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. He had a head start

this has been going for a number of years now. It's just most people (myself included) were unaware of his tactics until he became pope.

[Fenris]

4. Here comes the fun!

[SpiralHawk]

7. Take that, you free thinkers you

Coming Soon to a Life You Are Living: total adherence to THE DOCTRINE* -- political, religious, whatever.


* All doctrines WILL be determind by an infallible conglomeration of white males, who do not have profoundly confused issues of repressed gay or straight or kinky sexuality (so stop thinking that)

[SpiralHawk]

8. On the bright side, I hear there may be a job opening in Asheville, NC

at the local Baptist church. They seem to have "lost" a lot of members lately. Maybe they need someone to edit their weekly church bulletin?

Never hurts to try.

[struggle4progress]

20. They're really looking for a fellow who will drive them out with a whip.

[calimary]

11. Fine. I think Benny the Backward will be dictating to a lot more empty

pews in the days ahead. I'm gone. I felt tremendously alienated last summer, with all the politicking and the molestation catastrophe, and I stopped going to Sunday Mass (and, um, so did my wallet and checkbook, by the way). I had, up til recently, mulled over going back on an occasional Sunday. But not now. With this guy at the helm, I'm outta here. And I know I'm not alone.

[AndyTiedye]

13. All of them. Pope Maledict Will Have No Progressives in His Church

[TomClash]

14. Pope Ratzi is Pope Nazi

[Ian David]

16. See related thread:Catholics give finger to church's public relations fund

Catholics give the finger to Church's demands for Public Relations funds
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=11178&mesg_id=11178

[PATRICK]

17. True to form

No one who makes it to high office leaves the petty baggage behind. In fact even the smallest vice glories in new power. Believe me, there will a quick and nasty crackdown unprecedented despite all the post John XXIII Pope conducting timorous reining in of "reformers".

But mainly, something seems a bit off my own education. I thought the Jesuits had thrown themselves under the direct control of the papacy and these things could be handled by a simple reassignment, such as fr. Drinan's removal from the US Congress.

Threatening the magazine itself? It's not one liberal or one magazine. It is a frontal assault on Catholic thinking per se. And that is Rat.
When he starts behaving as his initial rehabilitating, smarmy PR indicated maybe one can in honesty start referring to him by that mouthful of a retrograde title and not just Ratzinger.

Just what the Church needed, a hatchet man with absolute divinized power. It has really been a while though one could criticize Paul VI and John Paul I for beating up first and foremost on the best and most loyal of Church progressives(Progressives by the Spirit as it thunders through our times, not Marxist philosophy as conservative old timers assume). Believe me, a Catholic progressive is a mild lamb in a RW battered flock.

Right or wrong, I think some of the recent popes have had no sense at all how to do their job maybe because it takes centuries for the Vatican to catch up with the simple facts of history that have raced past the institution long ago along with the Spirit.

I know history and it can get worse. A lot worse. But in our blinded times of unexamined crisis it is plenty bad enough.

[Eloriel]

18. Didn't I read that this department of the Vatican was literally

the office of the Inquisition during that era?

Anyway, to answer your question, I'm sure they'll be silencing as many moderate to liberal voices as possible, according to someone who ought to know:

Some Reflections on the Recent Papacy of JPII
by Matthew Fox, Ph.D.
http://www.opednews.com/foxmatthew_040405_pope.htm

[Bob3]

19. Ah well so much for more openness in the church

And that he was only acting under orders before. Sad. Not unexpected but sad nevertheless.

[w4rma]

21. Expect nothing less from one who manned an anti-aircraft gun for the Nazis

Scum.

[Ruffhowse]

22. Report: Vatican sacked Catholic magazine editor

The editor of "America," an influential Catholic weekly magazine, has been sacked on orders from the Vatican, which threatened to impose a "board of censors" to oversee the magazine if he stayed, according to the National Catholic Reporter.

"He was forced out," NCR editor Tom Roberts said of the Rev. Thomas Reese, S.J., who had run "America" for seven years. Frequently quoted in the secular press, Reese also had been a CNN commentator during the funeral of Pope John Paul II and the election of Pope Benedict XVI. Reese declined to comment Friday.

The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly run by the new pope, had pressured to get rid of Reese "for about five years," Roberts said. A source told the paper that it had issued an ultimatum, "that either Reese goes or they would appoint a board of censors."

It is not known what role, if any, the new pope, played in the ouster. A call to the Society of Jesus USA in Washington was not returned. The irony, Roberts said, is that "America" "is a mild publication," though it did publish an essay exploring moral arguments for condom use in the context of HIV/AIDs and an editorial questioning "lack of due process" in Vatican probes of certain theologians.

"It's an absolute tragedy ... an appalling affront to intelligent discourse," Roberts said of the firing.

The Rev. Richard McBrien, professor of Theology at the University of Notre Dame, also described "America" as "pretty mainstream," adding that Reese himself "has been very careful to be even-handed, fair-minded and restrained in any comments he's ever made, either in the run-up to this papal election or in his books. I would be astonished if anyone except extreme right-wingers would be offended by anything he's either written or said."

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/manhattan/nyc-cath0507,0,2076788,print.story?coll=nyc-moreny-headlines
___________________________________
Welcome to the new Inquisition, same as the old Inquisition.

[Maple]

23. and nobody ever expects

the Spanish Inquisition....

[IChing]

24. There is nothing that Dan Brown

didn't already write in his books,

ratzinger

He was after all a good German that joined

the groups,
that a young child should start from

that taught peace and tolerance..........

and they had neat uniforms too.......

[regnaD kciN]

28. Except that this news story is based on FACTS...

...of which you'll find precious few in Dan Brown's novels.

:spank:

[DoYouEverWonder]

31. Gee since when are novels

supposed to be based on facts? Isn't that why they call it fiction?

[IChing]

25. different story here.

Since Benedict's election, Jesuit officials concluded that their long-running disagreements with the Vatican over the magazine were "unwinnable," the National Catholic Reporter said.

Reese, 60, declined to comment except to say that he is looking forward to a sabbatical while discussing the next phase of his ministry with his superiors.

During his seven years as editor, the magazine's circulation and visibility rose as it tackled controversial subjects head-on, often by pairing essays on two sides of issues such as gay marriage, condom use to prevent the spread of HIV-AIDS and denial of Holy Communion to politicians who support abortion rights.

Reese's editorials often took a left-leaning position. They became particularly sharp during the interregnum after the death of Pope John Paul II, when he called for a new pope who would allow more open debate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/06/AR2005050601471.html

[IChing]

26. The Ratz is showing his true faith of tolerance.

America magazine, a weekly based in New York City, is a moderate-to-liberal journal published by the Jesuits, a religious order known for producing the scholars who run many of the church's universities and schools. The Jesuits prize their independence, but like everyone in the church, even their top official, the Jesuit superior general in Rome, ultimately answers to the pope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/07/national/07catholic.html?ex=1273118400&en=70fe40d36f39f64c&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

No wonder the first kiss of bush
and his horse milking,
joke telling,
death driving teenager,
bride
we saw a
kiss at a funeral..... a funeral..... for the death of a Pope, none the less.
and it was one of the first kisses we saw them displaying in public.

Let alone for the whole christian world to see. .................

now about that science thing

cut it's budget

its an intelligent design to do so.

[saigon68]

30. Rat Man is out to Purify the teaching and Sanctify the Eucharist

As in, "Hey you gay men, get the hell out of my tax exempt church with your Filthy Habits".

[AngryOldDem]

27. Gee, it only took him...what?

Three weeks?

As I said when he was elected, the Church took a giant step backward with Ratzinger. I believe he also had major roles in the "silencing" of Hans Kung, Charles Curran, and a Latin American theologian whose name escapes me at the moment -- Bosch?

I look for the scrutiny of Catholic educators, theologians, and universities -- which started under JPII -- to become even more severe. "Inquisition" may not be too far off the mark here.

And McBrien's observation in the last paragraph is also very correct.

[IChing]

29. If you think this not a battle

Against Darwin, Di Vinci, Jefferson, Lincoln, Buddha , Martin Luther, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Jesus, Mohammed, Gaillio, Socrates, Einstein, George Lucas, the Beatles and Lennon, and Groucho Marx
with all free thinker's that tried to set us free.

then get out of my church.

self bump, no self kicks from me

art, philosophy, and music, poetry
then sport. but First Nature.

[Malva Zebrina]

32. and to think in all of those DU threads that pointed out the Nazi

affiliations of Ratzinger, there were some who insisted that he was only little and knew not what he was doing.

Looks to me like some of that Nazi affiliation as a youth took hold somewhere in the little grey cells of our dear Pope and has, indeed, made a big impression on the way this guy's mind works.

[IChing]

33. Jesuit Magazine Editor Quits Amid Conflict (Ratzinger)

Jesuit Magazine Editor Quits Amid Conflict
By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 7, 2005; Page A02


The Rev. Thomas J. Reese, editor of the Jesuit magazine America and one of the nation's foremost commentators on Roman Catholicism, has resigned from the publication after years of tension with the Vatican.

The New York-based weekly announced that its new editor will be the Rev. Drew Christiansen, a fellow Jesuit who was recruited as a writer and editor by Reese in 2002.

The magazine's statement did not give any explanation for Reese's departure, effective June 1. But the National Catholic Reporter, an independent publication, said he resigned at the request of the Jesuit order after five years of pressure from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican department formerly headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.

[Maple]

34. Live by the sword....

die by the....etc

[Richard Steele]

35. I heard about this dude named 'Jesus' who never even OWNED a sword...

And I heard he didn't own a million $$$ worth of gold rings, or even a SINGLE big silk hat or NUTHIN' fancy like that....

I heard that HE had some, like, superhero-type powers,
but he was always poor and unknown because other people needed his 'powers' more than HE did...

...and he spent so much time HELPING people that he never got around to getting RICH and making poor people kiss his rings.

But I digress. This thread was about THE CHURCH.

My bad.

[Bozita]

36. Ratzinger -- guy who issued the anti-Kerry fatwa (Holy Communion)

Ratzinger must like the slime of current American politics.

He ain't above it; he's neck deep in it.

[Nothing Without Hope]

37. Before 1908, the CDF had a different name: THE INQUISITION.

I also highly recommend these other two DU theads on prominent clergy who have been “disciplined” by Ratzinger:

1. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=18845-- "Reflection on the Papacy by Matthew Fox (defrocked by Ratzinger)"
   
2. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3514470#3516159 -- "Ratzinger & the persecution of Seattle Archbishop Raymond Hunthausen")

(For those that did not know, Ratzinger was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (the renamed Inquisition) for over 20 years - here's more on that:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3514470#3516159)

Here is another good article on Ratzinger's past activities as head of the renamed Inquisition:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-curran21apr21.story
April 21, 2005
COMMENTARY

A Catholic Call for Dissent

By Charles E. Curran, Charles E. Curran is a professor of human values at Southern Methodist University and the author, most recently, of "The Moral Theology of Pope John Paul II" (Georgetown University Press, 2005).

I grew up as a typical pre-Vatican II Catholic. I entered the seminary at 13 and became a priest 11 years later, never questioning church teachings. But as a moral theologian in the 1960s, I began to see things differently, ultimately concluding that Catholics, although they must hold on to the core doctrines of faith, can and at times should dissent from the more peripheral teachings of the church.

Unfortunately, the leaders of the Catholic Church feel differently. In the summer of 1986, the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, under then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the powerful enforcer of doctrinal orthodoxy around the world, concluded a seven-year investigation of my writings. Pope John Paul II approved the finding that "one who dissents from the magisterium as you do is not suitable nor eligible to teach Catholic theology." Cardinal Ratzinger — now Pope Benedict XVI — told the Catholic University of America to revoke my license to teach theology because of my "repeated refusal to accept what the church teaches."

(snip)

Unfortunately, the Vatican — which was already moving toward greater discipline and orthodoxy — was having none of it. Seven years earlier, it had punished the Swiss theologian Hans Küng because of his teachings on infallibility in the church. Later, Cardinal Ratzinger "silenced" Brazilian Franciscan Leonardo Boff, an advocate of liberation theology, for a year. Just recently, Ratzinger said U.S. Jesuit Roger Haight could not teach Catholic theology until he changed his understanding of the role of Jesus Christ.

(snip)

But it doesn't have to be that way. History shows that the Catholic Church has changed its moral teachings over the years on a number of issues (without admitting its previous position had been wrong). A very sorry page in Catholic history, for example, is the fact that for over 1,800 years the popes and the church did not condemn slavery. And until the 17th century, popes, in the strongest terms, condemned loans with interest as violating God's law.

(snip)

[WindRavenX]

38. Jesuits are to the left of most Catholics

This doesn't suprise me...

[Clark2008]

39. I was Christened by a Jesuit in Georgetown

at birth. Heh.
Love the Jesuits.

My Mom and I think Ratzinger is evil - and we're Catholic.

I need to look this guy up.

[WindRavenX]

40. heh

Compared to ol' Ratz, Jesuits are the pot smoking hippies of the Catholics.

[Clark2008]

41. Well.. LOL... um... my parents were hippies..

Um.. I was born in 1970.
I guess that pretty much explains that!

:rofl:

Seriously, I AM laughing, because, well, you'd have to know my folks. :7 My Mom and Dad, seriously, were Meathead and Gloria. I mean, it might as well have been lifted (and THEY LOOKED like them) from their lives!

[DrDebug]

43. The Jesuits are free thinkers

That's why they are often called left winged. It's not that they are a socialist or liberal group of catholics, but an order which has always emphasised on education, intellectual stimulation, independant thought and argumentation.

For that reason people educated by Jesuits have done very well in politics and are not very liked within the Catholic Church because they often hold different views and are usually highly successful.

Ironically their education program is highly advanced and it's a shame that very little of their philosophy has been used in the current schoolsystem like we don't want free thinkers.

[sasquatch]

42. Jesuits are hard asses and Ratzinger better watch out

Jesuits go anywhere, everywhere and will face any foe.

[cap]

46. I wonder how the Jesuits will fight back...

they arent going to take all of this lying down. They know Ratzinger is out to get them. It's a big fight between them and the Opus Dei.

[Sapphire Blue]

44. After five years of 'pressure' from Ratzinger (the Grand Inquisitor)

... Rev. Reese resigns... Why does this not surprise me?

[CHIMO]

45. Editor of Jesuit weekly is ousted

The editor of America, an influential Jesuit weekly magazine, has resigned under orders from the Vatican, which threatened to impose a ''board of censors" to oversee the magazine if he stayed, according to the National Catholic Reporter.

''He was forced out," Tom Roberts, editor of the National Catholic Reporter, said of the Rev. Thomas J. Reese, who had run America for seven years. Frequently quoted in the secular media, Reese had also been a CNN commentator during the funeral of Pope John Paul II and the election of Pope Benedict XVI last month.

When contacted yesterday, Reese said only that his tenure ends June 1 and that he would move immediately to California and continue in his Jesuit ministry. Reese, 60, is now based in New York, where the magazine is edited.

The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, run by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he was named pope, had brought pressure to remove Reese ''for about five years," Roberts said. A source told the National Catholic Reporter that it had issued an ultimatum, ''that either Reese goes, or they would appoint a board of censors."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/05/07/editor_of_jesuit_weekly_is_ousted/

[silverweb]

47. I've had it.

When are we all going to just stand up to these despotic know-it-alls and flip them the finger as we walk away?

I am so sick to death of their raw power plays, their assertions of superiority backed by nothing, their claims of invincibility when they draw their only power from the stupid and gullible...

Aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh!!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[AspenRose]

48. Article at NYT too

You have to register.

http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/07/national/07catholic.html&OQ=incampQ3Darticle_popular&OP=6c792cfe/Q24_K5Q24e0/Yp00bHQ24H--sQ24-sQ24-TQ24zMb10zMiQ24-T/Mbv0i1/Q2AvbNi

Vatican Is Said to Force Jesuit Off Magazine
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: May 7, 2005
The Vatican ordered the editor of the Catholic magazine America to resign because of articles critical of the church.

[warrens]

49. The purges begin

Liberals, socialists, homosexuals, leftist Christians. How long before artists, Gypsys and Jews?

[davidinalameda]

50. not surprised

the Catholic Church wants to speak with one voice

of course that voice is saying some pretty nasty things, but still only one voice

[The_Casual_Observer]

51. That ratzy guy is an evil bastard. The nazi affiliation was no

accident.

[Moderator]

52. kick to combine

[Gloria]

53. US Catholic editor resigns after clash with Pope

Heard this on the BBC today and finally found a full story.....Pope Rat after this guy for years...also heard an interview with a U.S. nun, also chased down for years....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/08/wjes08.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/05/08/ixworld.html

(Filed: 08/05/2005)

A liberal American Jesuit has been forced to resign as the editor of a Roman Catholic magazine after several years of tense relations with the Vatican doctrinal office that was headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he was elected Pope Benedict XVI last month.

Fr Thomas Reese lost the editorship of America after pressure from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, according to The National Catholic Reporter, which broke the news. His clashes with the Congregation began four years ago when America ran articles critical of Dominus Jesus, a document produced by Cardinal Ratzinger's office which outlined the supremacy of Catholicism over other faiths and denominations.


At one stage, the congregation threatened to appoint censors to oversee the magazine's contents if the Jesuits did not rein it in.

After Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope, Fr Reese argued that the Vatican should consider scrapping celibacy for priests and ordaining women.


MORE

[w4rma]

54. Where are the Rat's defenders, now? Does he still sound like a "caretaker"

Pope to his defenders?

I expected nothing less from a guy who manned an anti-aircraft gun for the Nazis against American and Allied pilots.

[MisterP]

55. another Pope cracking down on the Jesuits?

this was common in the 1700's.

[fasttense]

56. And the purge begins..... n/t

[Divernan]

57. Opus Dei, One; Jesuits, Zip.

Sounds like the opening salvo of a very Dark Age for the Catholic Church.

[cap]

58. well, the Jesuits have outlasted a lot of Popes

Jesuits: centuries. Opus Dei: 20 years.

I think the Jesuits will go public with Opus Dei practices. I dont think the American public (including moderately conservative catholics) likes censorship, mortification(whipping, cilices, etc), suppression of women.