Car Accident Death Rate Increasing for Returning Soldiers

[Rose Siding]

Troops who survive war and return home from battle still have a tough fight to stay alive. "USA Today" compiled statistics showing that 132 soldiers died in car accidents from October 2003 to September 2004. Two-thirds of them were veterans of Iraq or Afghanistan.

Also, in the past seven months 80 soldiers were killed in traffic accidents and most of them had served in Iraq or Afghanistan.

The report indicates that most of those killed were safe and disciplined drivers before they were called to war.

Psychiatrist Jonathan Shay told "USA Today" that combat has altered the behavior of soldiers home from Iraq, just as it did with Vietnam veterans.

http://www.kbtv4.tv/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=8503

from today's USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-05-02-soldiers-accidents-cover_x.htm

[whistle]

1. How many of those accidents were the vets at fault and were...

...any alcohol/drug related? How do these figures compare to the population as a whole? (i.e. 132 deaths of returning soldiers compared to the total population of returning soldiers from Iraq/Afghanistan vs. all drivers).

[Zorra]

2. Wow. In the first 4 months of 2005, already 18 more soldiers were killed

in fatal car accidents than in all of 2004.

132 in 2004, 150 already in 2005.

Even more grief directly caused to soldiers and their families by Bush and his pet war.

[Miss Chybil]

3. I have close contact with an Iraq vet and when she first came home,

she thought every rock, box and piece of trash beside the road was an IED. She flinched everytime she saw one, when she was driving, or riding. This could be the problem.

[CoffeeCat]

5. That is a valid point...I'm also wondering if these vets...

...aren't disassociating--or severely spacing off.

Disassociation is a symptom of PTSD. A person will space off in order to cope with memories or overwhelming emotions regarding unresolved traumas.

When I first entered therapy for PTSD, and my symptoms (including disassociation) were in full swing--I was constantly making driving errors.

Just a thought.

[NYC]

7. Cardboard box in the road

caused my friend's brother to swerve so severely that they nearly wound up in a ditch. My friend feared his brother's driving would get them killed.

[Eloriel]

33. I think you guys have nailed it

Posts #3, 5 and 7.

Terribly sad.

[Skittles]

16. hey Miss Chybil

I just want to welcome you to the DU. :hi:

[Miss Chybil]

27. Thanks! nt

[meganmonkey]

29. Love your signature line quote!

And welcome!

:toast:

[TahitiNut]

4. My driving was a lot worse after Vietnam.

More than just not having driven for so long, I was aware that I wasn't scanning for hazards and obstacles in the same way. My attention wasn't "tuned" to the normal driving context - I seemed to track a LOT differently. I don't really know what it was, since I wasn't a grunt doing LRPs in the boonies or a tunnel rat. Hell, I was just an office pogue at Long Binh who did perimeter guard about once a week, and dodged nighttime incoming once or twice a week. Maybe it was a tendency to look for cover - I don't know.

I do know that buying a motorcycle in 1970 and taking a few weeks to tour up through Sault Ste Marie, west across Canada above Lake Superior, down through International Falls, south along the Mississippi to nearly St, Louis, then east to Columbus and back north to Detroit ... really cleared my head. It cured my driving difficulties, too. I got back "in the groove" of attending to traffic and hazards for the whole 360.

[saigon68]

12. I have seen a lot of people go through this

My explanation. You take risks because you survived the NAM. Nothing can happen to you now.

"Hey pass that car going up the hill--- Nothing will happen." OR

"Its so fucking boring, I think I'll have a few more beers and drive home"

[DemonFighterLives]

6. I had no idea about this

It is amazing and very sad.

[daleo]

8. A rough statistical analysis

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2003/809774.pdf

The overall rate per 100,000 of drivers involved in fatal accidents was (for age groups):

15-19: 66
20-24: 47
25-34: 31
(from the document at the site listed)

We can estimate the weighted average for this age range (which I take to be the same as the large majority of people in the military) as about 44. About half of all drivers involved in fatal accidents actually die, so we can estimate the fatality rate for drivers at about 22.

A complication is that males have a much higher fatality rate than females, about 3 times, and the majority of soldiers are male. If we assume about 90% of the military are males, this would put the expected fatality rate at about 30 per hundred thousand (a death rate of 30 per thousand males and 10 per thousand females gives a weighted average of 20, and 3 times higher male than female rate).

In the Oct 2003 - Sept 2004 period they say that there were 132 traffic deaths in the military, with two thirds of those having served in Iraq/Afghanistan, so say about 90. Given normal fatality rates for the relevant age group and gender, one would expect about 300,000 persons would be required to get this many deaths.

Is this a reasonable number for the population under consideration - soldiers driving during that 1 year (or 11 month, its not clear) interval who were veterans of Iraq/Afghanistan? We know that about 150,000 or so people serve in these theaters at any given time. I guess it depends on how many people stay in the military after serving their time in these theaters.

Offhand, I would say that the number of fatalities seems high, maybe by about 50% or so, but I could be wrong. I don't have a good feel for how large the population at risk is - that is, how many U.S. soldiers stateside have served in Iraq/Afghanistan and are still in the military.

The analysis is further confounded by not knowing how the driving rates (miles per year) compare between soldiers and civilians. If soldiers drive a lot less than civilians (no commuting if they live on base) you would expect their fatality rate to be a lot lower than a group of civilians of the same age and sex. If they drive more, you would expect it to be higher.

[Gardeaux08]

9. That actually happened in my area.

A local man had returned from Iraq and was killed in a car accident two weeks later. Very sad.

[global1]

10. How Many Civillians Were Killed Along With the Soldiers....

in these accidents? The reason I'm asking is are we at risk by having returning soldiers driving? Not only is * killing innocent Iraqi's and sending our military to be killed in his illegal wars - but if now U.S. citizens are put in harm's way by these soldiers that are back and driving - * is now killing U.S. Civillians too. I did't have time to read the links provided above - perhaps they provide this info.

[Daphne08]

13. Anyone who is old enough to remember the Vietnam War

will tell you that combat veterans had a difficult time readjusting to civilian life. It varied with each individual, of course, but it was there. (Some, certainly not all, but some who returned from Vietnam were seriously troubled.)

The Afghanistan and Iraq Wars are not Vietnam, but if the government doesn't give these returning vets counseling on demand when they want it -- or whatever it is they need (to decompress), we are going to see the same problems all over again.

These articles are just the tip of the iceberg!

[scarletlib]

21. it's probably much worse for these guys than for the Nam Vets

(and I mean no disrepect for the guys who served in Nam. It was bad enough)

I say this because due to the shortage of men bushco has these guys doing multiple practically back to back tours. They aren't even being given sufficient time to really decompress before they get sent off to do another tour over there in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

bushco is truly destroying the military one man at a time.

[Pinboy]

22. I remember..

A psychiatrist quoted in one of these stories suggested the "accidents" were due to an "air of invicibility" on the part of the troops. I think it was more likely in many cases related to the risk-taking and self-destructive behaviors associated with the psychological trauma of war.

Twenty years after I returned from Vietnam, I learned that my first radioman there survived -- only to commit suicide by driving head-on into an oncoming tractor-semitrailer shortly after he returned.

How many times do we have to re-learn these lessons?

[Voltaire99]

15. You're probably more at risk if you're married to one.

See stories on post-traumatic stress, as well as recent reporting on the rise in spousal violence on military bases.

In any case, yes: requiring people to commit mass murder and then returning them to civilian life poses risks for the rest of us. There's a Barbara Ehrenreich essay from within the last two years on this subject you can find by searching the web site of the Progressive magazine.

[Pinboy]

23. You're right in a sense, but...

I reject the notion of this having to do with "mass murder" or commission of atrocities.

Those who served honorably, and well, are also subject to psycholigical trauma, for a variety of reasons. Assuming the behavior of a war veteran necessarily results only from inhumane behavior in war is a mistake.

[Voltaire99]

34. What "honor"?

Let's stop fantasizing about martial pride. It's a bit late in human history and particularly that of this empire for "dulce et decorum est," my friend.

The invasion of Iraq is nothing if not inhumane behavior. Mass murder of Iraqis is quite well documented.

Alas, there is little way to "serve honorably" in an illegal invasion, apart from refusing to participate. Invaders and colonizers always tell such fictions about honor--it's part of the advertising for those back home who pay for the war in money, loved ones, and credulity.

[Pachamama]

11. How convenient - now the Gov doesn't have to pay for their healthcare etc.

:eyes:

[Voltaire99]

14. Fishy detail in USA Today: lots of new expensive vehicles for troops?

Fort Hood, the Army's largest post, is home to the 4th Infantry and 1st Cavalry divisions. For the first time since the war in Iraq began, both divisions are back in town at the same time. Streets are clogged with gleaming new Ford Mustangs and Chevy Silverado pickups, and a profusion of high-speed racing bikes that soldiers call "crotch-rockets."

Clogged? Really? And the troops can afford these how, exactly?

[LynnTheDem]

20. Not suspicious, it's true. And they "afford" it by spending all their

combat and separation pay that's been collecting while they've been at war for bush's lies, and by maxing out their CCs.

It's a very common happening for soldiers who survive wars. One soldier came home and decided to get into model planes for a hobby; went out, maxed his CC, bought 5 of every model kit he could find.

Ya know the old joke;

"When the going gets tough, the tough go shopping"? It's a stress thing, and it's ruining lives, families, and marriages.

Edit to add: They're also writing checks they don't have money to cover. In the military, that means jail.

It isn't just the cuts in medical benefits, and closing of VA hospitals and attempts to cut their pay and backdoor drafting and not enough little items such as rifles, ammo, body armor and uparmored vehicles or lying for weeks or months in total squalor in Carolina waiting to see doctors for their wounds, or the high divorce rates, spouse abuse, child molestations, rapes, drunk-driving, alcoholism and drug abuse...there are still more problems our troops are facing BECAUSE OF BUSH'S LIES.

[Voltaire99]

35. Nice surmise

Thanks for the answer. I wondered if that might be the case. Now I think of it, I see quite a few ads of late offering discounts to "our troops"--usually miniscule enticements on big ticket items.

[geniph]

36. The unmarried troops

haven't had anything to spend their money on while they've been trapped over there in the Forever War, so they blow a wad of it on shiny SUVs when they get home.

The more I see of stuff like this, the more thankful I am that my husband was assigned to a post in Adak, Alaska when he returned from his combat tour in VietNam. He got something almost none of the returning combat troops got - six months to decompress and readjust.

[LynnTheDem]

38. The worry we have here at Hood, is one day these guys will wake up

from their spending sprees and realize they can't even buy a meal as every penny they get will be going to payments on their credit cards...and thanks to bush's anti-bankruptcy law that he refused to exempt the troops from, the soldiers are going to have no way out.

Except a gun to their heads.

[LynnTheDem]

37. I dunno about other bases but here at Ft. Hood, it's bad.

Really, really bad.

[Solly Mack]

17. Let me tell you about riding with an Iraqi vet

They see all bridges and overpasses as "sniper" points", so they will hit high speeds to get by them. They hate the white line on the right hand side of the road now...it's too near the shoulder where land mines can be planted. So they hug the center line ...they hug it dangerously close. A road with no traffic coming from the other way is an open road to drive down the middle...cause the middle is safer... (in their minds) and at night, that thinking can be extremely dangerous.

Now couple that thinking with a few beers. Many soldiers drink, drive...and see "Iraq"...



My husbands gotten much better about his driving and he doesn't drink and drive...but for some, there's the added factor of having lived dangerously, they still live dangerously in their minds....and it reflects in everyday actions. "The live hard and fast" cause the next bullet could be for you...the "you survived combat you can survive anything" thinking causes a lot of sorrow once home.

The military has a "program" for everything. BUT...when you don't get better on their time table, you get the it's not their program it's you attitude. Never mind the program isn't any good. Never mind different people react differently to different treatment. It's a one size fits all short term "boot camp" course to mental well being....and if it doesn't work for you, why, that's your fault.(you're not trying hard enough)

And don't let the military lie to you...they don't encourage people to seek help..Oh, they'll tell you to seek help but they'll look at you differently when you do...cause seeking helps draws attention to your career and seeking help means you're not combat ready...and anything that makes Command look bad isn't encouraged. While I am sure there are exceptions to be found, that just hasn't been my experience with soldiers in need.

[Gelliebeans]

39. A good friend of mine

is married to a man that served in the first gulf war. After his return he began drinking and smoking heavily. He was very oppositional and abusive (mentally) with his treatment of her.

She tried to coax him to get help but he resisted because even though counseling was covered with their military medical insurance the stigma attached to such counseling would hinder him from promotions because it would become a part of his permanent record.

My friend and I eventually grew apart, I think I just got all used up from her constant need to complain and do nothing about her situation. I even offered to put her up and help out if she wanted to leave him. I hope they have worked it out but he was in serious need of therapy.

I think that privacy and military psyche records need some fine tuning.

[Solly Mack]

40. I hope your friend got help or left...and then got herself some help

You're right about the stigma...they'll offer counseling then hold it against the soldier.

I've known a few situations like you're describing.

My husband and I were lucky. I'm very grateful for that.

[Gelliebeans]

41. I'm very happy that you made it through

your tough time. :)

I ran into her about a year ago at the store and she was still married but he was in Iraq this time so who knows what shape he was in mentally when he came back from this tour. :shrug:

you are a brave person to share your personal story :hug:

[Fleshdancer]

18. I go to school with a guy who's buddy just got back from Iraq. Not good.

This particular guy is experiencing some heavy duty problems...drinking all the time, driving drunk, driving through stop signs without caring, etc. It's weird to read this article since the guy I go to class with told me the story about how this soldier recently got into a car wreck (ran off the road somehow because he was extremely drunk). I pleaded with him to get his friend help. Apparently there's a lot of rage issues going on as well.

[LynnTheDem]

19. Big problem here at Hood with soldiers killed in driving "accidents".

Most of them from driving drunk.

[quaoar]

24. I wonder how many of these accidents

are actually suicides.

[Sabriel]

28. I wonder, too.... Suicide by car accident?

Let's face it, insurance doesn't pay off on suicides.

[underpants]

30. Vet or not "Single car accidents" often are

10 years ago when I was in high school a guy died in a car wreck. After a while it became pretty clear that it was a suicide, the statistics backed that up.

[funkybutt]

25. I know one of those 132...

He made it back from Iraq only to be killed in a car accident not far from his home. He lost control of his vehicle and it flipped. All our friends speculate that he was driving more recklessly since returning from the war.

This headline really caught my eye b/c at the time of his death, I had wondered if this was just an isolated case. Guess not.

[Ilsa]

26. PTSD symptoms ?

I remember "hurting" myself alot when I had it badly. I was very careless. I suffered burns in the kitchen, a severely sprained ankle, spaciness at work, lack of concentration, poor sleep.

[staticstopper]

31. The next door family...

who were poor, got an expensive car while their kid was in Falluja keeping stock of ammo. I thought it was weird. He made it back with all of his limbs, thank god.

[1956]

32. conspiracy theory

Well, with all facts aside, isn't it possible that some of those accidents were made possible by a grant from our wonderful government mafiosos in fear that the vets would speak out for what was really going on. They wanted to dummy them up!!!! Permanently. Plus get rid of their paycheck!
Okay, okay, I certainly hope it isn't true, but I have become so cynical of all the scary things that are happening!