Kerry: Don't tell me what God wants

[Gman]

WASHINGTON - Sen. John F. Kerry yesterday attacked Republicans for having an ``orthodoxy of view'' and overly inserting religion into politics, accusing them of using God as a justification for appointing conservative judges.
``I am sick and tired of a bunch of people trying to tell me that God wants a bunch of conservative judges on the court and that's why we have to change the rules of the United States Senate,'' Kerry told a group of Bay State residents who traveled to Capitol Hill for U.S. Rep. Martin Meehan's annual legislative seminar.

http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid=79532

[xchrom]

1. well that's certainly to the point.

and well said, i might add.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

17. And that is where we have to get

if there is ever going to be any hope of dealing with these zealots.

[saigon68]

100. I guess Cardinal Rat Man and his attempt to control US elections

Fired him up

[radfringe]

162. do they hate our freedom?

so the radical repugs have taken up pounding the bible

seems to me that there is little difference in the rhetoric between the radical islamic speech and what we are hearing out of the mouths of the radical repugs

the radical-repugs are claiming to fight for freedom of religion -- yet their zealous actions seem to support only their view of their religion

it's obvious the repugs are only using religion for a political advantage -- and it's a dangerous political game they are playing.

one of the great foundations of our country is the separation of church and state -- this is one of our freedoms -- do they hate our freedom?

maybe unintentionally - but in their zealous "raputure" of professing to know what "GOD" wants in order to gain an upper hand in the political realm -- they are destroying that freedom

if this continues - an official state sanctioned religion won't be far behind

[Freedom_from_Chains]

166. Yes, they hate freedom, in all its forms.

"seems to me that there is little difference in the rhetoric between the radical islamic speech and what we are hearing out of the mouths of the radical repugs"

That's because there really isn't much difference between the two. Take a good look at the middle-east, this may be what is coming our way.

"the radical-repugs are claiming to fight for freedom of religion -- yet their zealous actions seem to support only their view of their religion"

They lie, they hate freedom of religion almost as much as they hate freedom itself. Their idea of freedom of religion is the freedom to be of any denomination of Christianity that you want to be. Of course, if they are able to gain any more power that will probably be narrowed down to the "one true Christian religion." At that point it simply becomes a matter of who has the most numbers and the most guns, and the willingness to use them. Of course, historically at least, Christians have never been lacking much in will to impose their authority by violence.

"but in their zealous "raputure" of professing to know what "GOD" wants in order to gain an upper hand in the political realm"

e·go·ma·ni·a ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-mn-, -mny, g-)
n.
Obsessive preoccupation with the self.

I don't think any more needs to be said on that topic.

"if this continues - an official state sanctioned religion won't be far behind"

Which is why all Americans who value their freedoms and liberties really need to start paying attention.

[Pirate Smile]

24. Here is some more or the text.

WASHINGTON - Sen. John F. Kerry yesterday attacked Republicans for having an ``orthodoxy of view'' and overly inserting religion into politics, accusing them of using God as a justification for appointing conservative judges.

``I am sick and tired of a bunch of people trying to tell me that God wants a bunch of conservative judges on the court and that's why we have to change the rules of the United States Senate,'' Kerry told a group of Bay State residents who traveled to Capitol Hill for U.S. Rep. Martin Meehan's annual legislative seminar.

-snip-
``I am sick and tired of (them saying) they somehow have a better understanding of Christianity, of the Judeo-Christian ethic, of values,'' Kerry added. ``We're talking about values? You show me where in the New Testament Jesus ever talked about the value of having taxes and taking money from poor people to give to the rich people in this country.''

The Bay State senator added that the Christian values and Catholic church he grew up with ``was a church of universality and understanding and true freedom of conscience'' and that there was never this kind of ``imposition of values'' into politics.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Kerry is absolutely right about the weird

transformation of some Catholic churches.

A Catholic church where I live now has funeral masses for 6 week miscarriages. It's absolutely unbelievable. If you tried to pull that kind of shit in the Brooklyn parish where I grew up, the priest would sit you down, console you for your loss, then tell you to get your head and your ass wired together. In that language.

The difference of course, is that that Brooklyn parish was populated by Italian, Irish, and Latino immigrants and working class people with hard-earned common sense, while the parish I live in now is populated by ex-urban bourgois middle managers and golfers who appear for all the world to not have a lick of common sense a'tall (as my Irish grandmother would say). A pack of fucking righteous slags, in other words.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

40. That is sick....And not at all sanctioned by the church.

And I think I would love your priest.
Duckie

[jean]

137. what delightful tulips!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

144. Google Tulips.

That's where I found them. They're my wallpaper.
Thanks!
Duckie

[sakabatou]

109. Urgh...

There's something wrong with having a funeral mass for a miscarriage...

[AuntiBush]

140. This is 1 more reason why I PROUDLY voted for this man!

My dream: I awaken to hearing but a few neighbors ranting, raving, pointing at my liberal butt as they radically freak-out. My nice neighbors are jumping up and down w/the American flag because NO ONE puts them out around here anymore except the SORE WINNERS (oh, they're so disgusting angry and over what I might add)...

Anyway, in this dream, my neighbors joyfully yell to me that the Chimp, and company are impeached and Kerry has been brought out of exile and is President... and everything is back to normal within weeks and life like we knew is back to normal

Then I realize I'm dreaming and, well... you see my head banging on that dam*$(* wall!

Luv Kerry! Half of us have a brain.

[merwin]

82. I agree. If he had only said that during the elections. That is the kind

of morals that people can agree with. No Christian can deny ANY of those statements that he made being true, however blunt they were.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. I'm no Kerry basher, but

we could've used that about 8 months ago.

[BrainRants]

3. Resounding YES!

n/t

[shadowknows69]

103. I somewhat agree

It's going to be hard to take on religion and win any fight without looking bad. Particullarly in times that a significant number of people probably think is near the end of the world.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

131. I disagree

I think Kerry has opened the door and let the light in on what a huge number of people are thinking, but have been quiet for far too long.

This commingling of religion with government is immoral, not to mention illegal, and I, for one, am glad Kerry finally spoke out. I sincerely hope more legislators will echo his sentiments, and then maybe we can get back to the secular government we're supposed to have.

[AuntiBush]

142. I'm with you "OldLeftieLawyer!"

You are "exactly" correct! Commingling of politics and religion is highly immoral and de-values us as a nation. Not to mention it derails our Constitution, and demeans each and every one of us Americans.

Kerry did in deed open a door and not only is that light beginning to shine ever so brightly, (hey, a little is a huge step at this point in the derailment of our country), but it's just the beginning.

Our country has never been run like this, nor can it withstand much longer...

[shadowknows69]

151. I didn't say I didn't agree just that it will be hard

[sniffa]

5. so couLd have aL gore in 2000

and i certainLy appreciate what gore has said since then. :D

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Don't get me wrong at all - I'm glad he said it.

I'm just lamenting that it came now and not October. I'm not bashing, really.

[sniffa]

16. oh i know

i think in generaL, the dems wiLL Learn from both eLections that they shouLd attack earLy and often.

:D

[DrZeeLit]

37. How about both -- attack AND assert a position? I agree...

...would have liked MUCH stronger language from Dems in at least the last two prez elections.

And it's not good enough to just attack. If that's all that comes through loud and clear, it "could" (not saying "would") be dismal.

I'd like to see a strong, stand-up-for-ourselves attack, combined with a firm, clear assertation of a position. Such as -- we are for tolerance, we are for separation of church and state (perhaps use Constitution as a document, rather than the Bible), we are for human rights, freedom OF, rather than freedom FROM.

I'm sure someone could come up with a strong assertion tantamount to a "slogan" that becomes a strong soundbite.

However, that all said and laments aside, I hope that Kerry's direct remarks open others to attack and assert, often, loud, clear, on camera, in print -- the time for cowering is over. We've lost elections doing that, so what more do we have to lose?

[Maat]

87. Is that a doctored photo -

or do those guys (Kitty and Doggy) really get along like that?

[DrZeeLit]

121. As far as I know, not doctored... BUT... I didn't take it; a friend sent

and I just fell in love with it.

Ya know...some days, it's exactly the energy I feel.
Other days, thank goodness for the Laugh.

[Maat]

123. Thanks.

I think that my housepets are so lazy - well, now, they are all asleep: the dog, the cats, and the rat sisters.

Staring at each other is fine for a few hours, but most times, it's time for a nap.

The only one getting bad looks is me for making noise on my keyboard.

[antonialee839]

92. I wish they would have

learned from the Gore election, and attacked early and often during the Kerry run. Sometimes I seriously doubt we will ever learn.

[Arugula Latte]

165. Yes, but you would think

they would have learned that about TEN years ago. What is it going to take for them to go all out like the 'thugs have been doing for years and years?

[tavalon]

23. I swear I think our last two candidates

were muzzled by somebody during their campaign. They are both turning into firebrands after the fact.

I really think we need to figure out who keeps telling our candidates how to lose and then fire them.

[ginnyinWI]

97. that's a very smart point

Gore seemed very muzzled, and his campaign really suffered. Kerry was a little less muzzled, but there were times he should have been allowed to say more (August especially!) We don't need to smear the other side, just tell the whole truth in no uncertain terms. Kerry started out attacking Bush even in early 2003, and it helped him win the primaries. It also helped him right at the end, during the last month, when he rose in the polls after coming back hard at Bush. Let Kerry be Kerry, and he does his best work.

[Hand]

101. Two words: Al From

Any Democratic candidate who takes that idiot's advice might just as well concede in advance. :dunce:

[blm]

124. From hates Kerry and does not advise him.

Clinton had to pull From kicking and screaming to get behind Kerry. The only person he liked less than Kerry was Dean, after Dean switched to some more liberal positions than he took as governor.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

132. Don't forget Bob Schrum

I don't get how that asshole - who has never run a winning campaign in his long career - keeps getting hired by Democrats?

I just don't get it. He runs campaigns right into the damn ground, does everything wrong, and IS STILL IN THE BUSINESS.

Can anyone explain this to me?

[dragon695]

133. Don't forget he was the twit who replaced

Coca-Cola with Coke II back in the 80's. That should have been a sure sign of his incompetence. WTF was he smoking, thinking a Coke drinker wanted something that tasted like Pepsi. Aside from the new revelations of human-rights abuses <say it ain't so :(>, that had to be the stupidest move Coke ever made.

[OzarkDem]

139. Bingo!

Shrum and his ilk, the whole lazy, insular group inside the beltway.

Those that lost their jobs after the Kerry campaign went to work for the corporate lobbyists on K-Street. You have them to thank for passage of the horrific bankruptcy bill.

When Dem congressmen vote with R's on bad legislation, its because their lobbyists are their fellow Dem buddies.

[kiki]

28. Can someone teLL me...

...what the deal is with these upper case 'L's?

[sniffa]

31. did you check the FAQ's?

[kiki]

35. Can't immediately see anything about it on there...

...and not really concerned enough about it to read the entire page. Searching for 'L' isn't very practical... :)

[Pirate Smile]

63. Sniffa's keyboard has some "issues" with the letter L.

[Straight Shooter]

76. Sniffa always caps the "L" because it's the first letter of "liberal"

Sniffa is proud to be a Liberal. :bounce:

[antigone382]

78. sniffa's trademark

L is for LIBERAL! :thumbsup:

[kiki]

80. And that's on the FAQ?

[Virginian]

83. What didn't get emphasized in 2000...

Gore has been a Christian all his life, he even considered going to theology school.
Bush, on the other hand, conveniently embraced religion about the time he decided to become a politician, when he was 40.
Who has a better grasp on religion, one who has lived it all his life or one who discovered it twelve years ago after living a wild hedonistic first forty years?

[BrainRants]

8. The real question is, will it be used by Dem Pres Candidate "X" in '08?

We need someone with testicles (male or female...I'm thinking Barbara Boxer here folks) to say these things.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. If he had, would it have been covered?

I think not.

JK didn't run a perfect campaign, but he said a lot of the Right Things that no one picked up on.

The Right owns the Press, the machinery of our Elections, and most of the capital in this country. It's not going to be an easy thing to surmount.

--p!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

14. I think THAT would've been reported.

It's a pretty big statement, but I do see your point.

[Ilsa]

29. It would have been covered and twisted...

into "Kerry desires irradication of religion from US" or something equally dishonest.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

33. Yeah, that's probably more to the truth.

[maxrandb]

50. Oh! It Would Have Been Covered Alright!

Faux News: "and in breaking news, John Kerry launched a vicious attack on Christians today. Here to talk about it is Sean Hannity and the Rev Jerry Falwell"

Rush: "I tell you people these folks are nuts! Here we have John "Francois" Kerry once again persecuting Christians! Let's go to the audiotape"

MSNBC: "Chris Matthews here and today John Kerry lashed out at Christians, basically saying that they should not have a voice in politics. Here to discuss this is James Dobson from the 'non-partisan' group, Focus on the Family".

CNN: "Kerry attacks people of faith". "In a move similar to his anti-war days, Democrat candidate John "Heinz" Kerry lashed out against Christians today".

If only the above were satire....but we know it's not.

[Frances]

68. Wow

You made the point I've been trying to make on DU for months. You made the point so much better than I ever have.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

127. that's some stunning writing.

well done. and so goddamn fucking true.

[Career Prole]

129. You nailed it!

:applause:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

18. Actually, we could have used that 20 years ago. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. I think Kerry got himself an education when he ran.

I don't think he understood how evil conservatives are. I predict that if Bush gets his way, they will end up being far worse than the Nazis. I don't see how right-wing policies will lead to anything but a series of wars fought to control resources for corporatists who really aren't interested in diplomacy or conservation.

[LibDemAlways]

49. I recall that Kerry was caught on tape

when he thought he was out of microphone range calling the BFEE liars and crooks. I don't recall the exact quote, but it was a good slam. I also recall that the media skewered him for it until he came out and explained that he was not talking about the chimp but about some unnamed repuke advisors. He felt compelled to water it down or someone told him he had to water it down -- extremely poor advice.

He had nothing to apologize for. The BFEE are a pack of lying crooks - and worse - and he ought to have owned the comment and backed it up with many, many specific examples. No Dem ought to be put on the defensive by these rabid attack dogs. Licking one's wounds and walking away is an extremely ineffective strategy when confronted by a pittbull.

[glitch]

71. Yes! Total agreement here.

"Licking one's wounds and walking away is an extremely ineffective strategy when confronted by a pittbull."

In this case, extremely ineffective = suicidal.

[EFerrari]

89. He said, "these people are the biggest bunch of crooks and

liars I've ever seen." :)

[xxqqqzme]

93. agree - the learning curve

of congressional dems seems 2 B fairly flat. The learning curve of dems here in CA, where they hold the MAJORITY, is equally as dismal. Let's see - Gore got screwed in '00; senate dems believed asscrack's lies during his hearing and confirmed him; Kennedy got duped N2 NCLB; congressional dems wrapped themselves in the flag, stood on the capitol steps and sang 'god bless America', then voted 4 the patriot act; a bunch of dems(if we're 2 believe them) were duped N2 voting 2 invade Iraq; a SECOND Sec of State (Ohio) acts as state campaign chair and rigs yet another election. AND still the democrats can't get their shit 2gether 2 vote in a block in opposition.......I am still fumimg over those 3 asswipes democrats that gave ANWR away.

[nodictators]

26. We could also use some info about Bush's Consumption Tax

If the consumption tax is pushed through it will devastate many Dem families. It would invert the percentages on the income tax, with middle- and lower-income families paying a 30% tax on their income, while families with incomes above $1 million/year would pay less than 10% of their income in federal tax.

Alas, the Dems have failed to inform their base, us, about the consumption tax.

Kerry did hit the right note in his remarks. Body-slam the Repukes with the harm they are causing to families. Hit them again and again, until they stagger and fall. Then step on their necks.

All of the Dems need to do the same to the crooked Repukes.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

55. Funny thing is...I heard him speak right before the election...

At a massive rally in Minneapolis on the Thursday before November 2nd. Kerry said a lot of the things he said in the speech in the original post.
The news covered it by stating "Kerry speaks to thousands". Didn't mention the context of the speech. Didn't even accurately portray the crowd (It was well over ten thousand).

There was an article about Kerry (I think it was in Rolling Stone) where some reporter essentially said "You have to prove to us that you know what you're talking about."
Instead of actually reporting what Kerry said, taking it at face value (like they did with Bush) they insisted that Kerry explain his positions to them. The media gave Bush as free a ride as they could, while Kerry's message simply did not get out.

I heard him say it, and so did over ten thousand of my fellow Minnesotans. But Joe Schmo watching the 10pm news would just hear that Kerry was at the Metrodome that day. Wouldn't hear what he talked about. (Unless one of the local TV stations covered him live. I didn't think so, but I could be wrong.)

[ginnyinWI]

102. exactly

too little coverage, and "sanitized" at that. We don't want to bother you with the actual content of what he said, folks--we'll let you know if he says anything important.

[emulatorloo]

117. Always "summarizing" Kerry, and Cherry-Picking the best Bush Quotes

It drove me nuts -- inaccurate voice over's poorly summarizing Kerry's speeches, and then Cherry-Picking the absolute best of Bush's soundbites to air over and over again.

[AlmightyTallest]

152. Exactly

The media really distorted how the two candidates were perceived. I remember an article in Rolling Stone (maybe the same one) that talked about a news report that showed Kerry at a rally but said that he was dull and the crowd was unresponsive, but in reality it was a huge enthusiastic crowd which they didn't shoot any wide shots of so that if you were just watching on TV you wouldn't know how many people there were. It's pure manipulation. I think that's why Kerry got a debate bounce, he came out strong against Bush without any media filter for 2 hours at a time. You can spin it later but it's not the same. I recall after the DNC Kerry challenged Bush to a debate every week until the election, Bush wisely didn't accept, for obvious reasons.

[AlCzervik]

66. Aye!

[calimary]

72. No kidding.

You're a little late, Mr. Senator... We could have used this fire and brimstone out on the campaign trail... You might be doing it from the Oval Office this morning if you had...

[WilliamPitt]

96. You mean like at the convention

when he said don't pray we're on God's side, pray that God is on our side?

Like that?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

108. No, like he said explicitly here.

Convention was "diplomatic", to put it kindly.

This was blunt.

[jayctravis]

120. You know, maybe this is good though.

I know a lot of people loudly proclaim that Kerry would never get their vote again, but in 2008 he's going to have much more of a visible track record. That and the freaking swiftboat thing were the main points that the opposition hammered him with.

I'm glad that Kerry emails regularly and asks for petition support.

I'd very much support a Kerry/Boxer ticket in 08.

[Writer]

134. Kerry would not have been able to say this...

without the Terri Schiavo incident showing the Republican's true colors.

[hatrack]

136. I agree - last year was the best time for this, but I welcome it anytime

'Bout time somebody stood up to the Talibornagains, and if it's Kerry, cool!

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

138. I wanted a carnivorous, "Wolverine from the X-Men" John Kerry.

He fought as hard as he thought he had to.

I don't know what I'd have done in his shoes.

I wanted to see Kerry draw Bush and Rove blood. They were dirty. I wanted him to remain clean and eviscerate them.

Bush was, is, and always will be a coward.

Kerry was, is, and will always be a hero. He just didn't realize what a worthless, amoral POS motherf**ker Karl Rove was, and how low he would stoop to win.

NOW, John Kerry REALIZES. Too late, but he realizes.

I was unemployed and made donations to his campaign. I believed in him, and to a degree, I still do.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

164. I truly agree.

I'm not one to bash him, and I'm not really bashing him now. I don't think he ran a horrid campaign either, though mistakes were definitely made. I'm just saying... it would've been nice.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Obviously Kerry has yet to speak to Ratzinger!

I fear for our liberal Catholic politicians!

[NVMojo]

10. He needs to moon the Bush lackey, Ratzigwhatever his name is!

I, for one, am sick of having religion shoved down my throat for the past year while I am being taxed to kill people in Iraq for oil and egos!!!

[AlmightyTallest]

153. Word

That neatly sums up in one sentence the entire mess. Thank you.

[chomskysright]

77. You mean PAPA RATZI.....he's pandering to worldwide conservative arm-twist

[LynneSin]

6. ``We're talking about values? You show me where in the New Testament.....

....Jesus ever talked about the value of having taxes and taking money from poor people to give to the rich people in this country.''

DAMN Kerry, where the hell was this about 6 months ago! But really really great comment and extremely valid point. Jesus is none of these things that Republicans paint him to be. No wonder us Christians get vilified here at DU :eyes:

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

34. Where were y'all during the '04 and '00 campaigns?

Enough with this inanity, already. Both Kerry and Gore were saying pretty much the same things during their campaigns too -- it is just that the media doesnt pump it up (or even cover :-() and even folks at DU, who should be more aware of what our own candidates have been saying all along, find it necessary to pipe up often with "why not during the campaign"?

I am going to make a list of all the arguably fiery things that the two Dem candidates have said in 2000 and 2004 respectively and post it to DU in a separate thread one of these days (when classes are done for the spring semester) -- and I hope we never hear ill-informed statements like these again from people who should know better. What is to be gained by this inaccurate silliness?

(Quick examples of the 2 Dem candidates' consistency and consistent railing against the rethugs: Just read Kerry's statements from 2001 to 2004 on the senate floor, in the midst of a "war" criticizing the "c-in-c", for crying out aloud! Also, does anyone remember the off/on-mike Kerry "fiasco" re:"these lying, you know..."? He never backed off that "on" mike either; if memory serves, he actually bolstered it obliquely. Gore in 2000 ran the most amazingly populist campaign, saying quite sensible things; he really couldn't realistically rail against the Rethugs as Kerry could -- and did -- since the Prez was a Dem and he himself was a semi-incumbent; short of that he did himself and us quite proud; the only flaw in Gore's campaign was a certain smugness of attitude, justifiabe but ultimately counter-productive. As usual, he was light years ahead of the run-of-the-mill politicians/Dems in predicting the power consolidation under the thugs; his slogan was "the people versus the powerful" for heavens sakes! And I am sure many on this board were saying then -- I wasnt around -- he was too populist!)

[KittyWampus]

39. Thank You! Remember Kerry Using The Passage About Deeds Over Words?

Kerry WAS on top of things and he certainly knows the BFEE for what it is.

It's just the media decided to twist or ignore Kerry's words while giving Junior every opportunity to spout his lies with impunity.

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

42. Absolutely!

I loved the way he quoted so effectively and sincerely from the bible(?) -- and I am an agnostic born into a devoutly Hindu family!

[smoogatz]

62. I think both Gore and Kerry ran weak campaigns.

Gore made numerous mistakes: not responding aggressively enough to Rove's "Gore is a liar" campaign, distancing himself (absurdly) from eight years of peace and prosperity under Clinton, coming off as a whiny stiff in the debates, and so on. Clinton bears some of the blame, for failing to keep his johnson in his pants when he knew the right was out to get him.

Kerry's a good man and, I think, a reasonably effective senator, but his votes on Iraq put him in a vulnerable position as a presidential candidate--as Howard Dean pointed out during the primaries. Kerry was never able to master the art of the sound bite; a real (if unfortunate) imperative in the TV age. Kerry also was much too slow and too weak in responding to Rove's smear tactics, and was frankly never able to articulate a coherent position on Iraq, except that Bush was making a hash of the occupation (I'd have done the same thing, but I'd have done it better). Not exactly giving him both barrels.

The candidate's fiery speeches on the Senate floor, or post-election, while laudable, obviously have nothing to do with their effectiveness as presidential candidates.

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

79. Maybe so.

On the other hand, the argument could be made that when one's character is impugned, the best defense is witnesses other than one-self. Where were the other Dems, when their standard-bearers (who were known to be almost too good to be true: Gore was routinely referred to as a "boy-scout" by those who seemingly knew him well; Kerry needs no other witness beyond VVAW and his whole career) were being so vicously attacked? If your own will not stand up for you, who will, given that you are not yourself a credible defender of your own integrity beyond your actual conduct?

What was done to the reputations of Gore and Kerry did not really demean the media and the Rethugs in my eyes, they each had at least some perverted self-interest -- what was in the silence of/for the Dems? It nearly made me a cynic, an eternal optimist. I have said it many times on this forum and because it is so critically important, I will say it again, until the Dems stand up for each other, it doesnt even matter that the voting machinery is rigged.

Two glaring examples how bad the situation is for Dem Presidential candidates: When Gore had won the popular vote, when innumerable AA's had arguably been disenfranchised in Florida, and in the face of brazen rethug unity, there was Ed Rendell on Chris Matthews' show "Gore should pack it in"! And here you had Kerry, the guy who fought for his country and spoken out against an unjust, unwinnable war, attacked by the troop-supporting whack jobs on the right and nary a peep from the Dems on the talking head shows, which is were visibility for an issue is won. Kerry tried to defend himself and the Dems piled on him, saying he should not have been so serious about it.

If I didnt know better, I would have thought I was watching a bizarre movie...

The wing nuts seem to run better campaigns only because the media will not amplify in their echo chamber the gaffes that the boy-king made in both campaigns. I will catalog them in a later post...

[Laurab]

114. Thanks for your post

I agree with almost all of what you said, except for the fact that I DO blame the media, as much as the dems. They were very unkind to Kerry, and bent over backwards for the shrub. The media is supposed to inform the public, although it hasn't actually done a whole lot of that since * was appointed.

I'm tired of seeing over and over how bad the campaigns were. I wasn't as interested in political things back in 2000, but I watched the 2004 election very closely. I thought Kerry ran a winning campaign, and *'s was downright pitiful, as was his record. Yes, Kerry made a couple of mistakes, but compared to his highness, his campaign was stellar. A little help from his fellow dems, and an honest media would have been a big help. I still think the fix was in, and it really wouldn't have changed anything, but when I see people blaming Kerry's campaign, I don't get it. The choice was a no-brainer for any THINKING person.

I feel like I'm LIVING in a bizarre movie, and it just keeps getting worse. I just don't think Kerry is to blame.

[NVMojo]

7. Nominate this up to the Front Page!!! Go Kerry!!! Give them a reality

check!! They are not divinely inspired, especially if they are morally compromised!!!

[KittyWampus]

41. Nominated.

:)

Good idea.

[Steely_Dan]

59. Is that...

...one of the members from "Tears for Fears?" Love that band.

[Branjor]

9. God is very useful...

The conservatives can say that god wants whatever THEY want "Him" to want, knowing full well that "He" is not around to tell them what they're really full of.

[jimshoes]

12. Very true

The repubs do not fear god, they pull him out like a police courtesy card whenever they get their tits in a wringer. Hypocrites all of them.

[Jawja]

15. Good for Kerry!

We need some more of this from the "religious left." Let's have a DEBATE in this country over the meaning of religion and it's place in politics.

Someone has to lead it. I'm glad to hear it from Kerry.

:applause:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

20. over the meaning of religion and it's place in politics.

Religion place in politics is real simple, it doesn't have one.

[sadiesworld]

21. It's nice to see Kerry finding his "inner warrior"...

now that the FRICKING election is over.

[wallwriter]

32. You mean his balls?

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

46. See my post above...

and stop using profanity, especially when you are wrong :-).

[sadiesworld]

54. Oh boy, you fucking showed me.

[NVMojo]

58. yeah, sadiesworld, did you walk a mile in his shoes when he was

being viciously attacked by these same morally and valuelessly bankrupt xtions for fighting in Viet Nam and then questioning it??? I didn't and I am still outraged by the gutter level this past election hit and I am still outraged at how stupid Americans are....

[tavalon]

22. Could someone explain to me

why when people like Kerry and Gore become presidential candidates they are wooden and careful and so slow to speak anything remotely approaching the truth but as soon as they are no longer candidates, they turn into the wonderful truth telling firebrands that they should always have been.

Do these people hire crappy advisors who tell them they have to be so fucking careful or is it the DNC or the DLC or what?!?

Why, oh why, do we have to hear such wonderful amazing, truthful things from these guys after the campaigns?

[Patiod]

27. I think we can see one reason is "The Scream"

Any fire-branding is automatically painted by the conservative MSM as "nuts" "whacko" "angry" "out of control" "angry liberal" etc.

The MSM twists anything they can, take it out of context, and play it over and over and over and over again on CNN/Faux/MSNBC until it does sort of look "nuts".

[Art_from_Ark]

38. I think this shit started in 1972

when the media pounced on then frontrunner for the Democratic Presidential nomination for supposedly crying about a couple of vitriolic articles that appeared about him and his wife in the fishwrap Manchester Union Leader:

"CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: After that, Muskie became the favorite to win the 1972 Democratic Presidential nomination. But being the front-runner for over a year proved difficult. During the New Hampshire primary, Muskie choked with anger and seemed to cry because of a couple of nasty articles in the "Manchester Union Leader." One article proved to be a hoax. The other attacked Muskie's wife. Muskie then attacked publisher William Loeb.


"EDMUND S. MUSKIE: (February 1972) By attacking me, by attacking my wife, he has proved himself to be a gutless coward. And maybe I said all I should on it. It's fortunate for him he's not on this platform beside me. A good woman--"

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/remember/muskie_3-26.html

Years later, the media also attacked Democratic Presidential Pat Schroeder for essentially the same thing:


"ANNE TAYLOR FLEMING: When (Pat Schroeder) withdrew from the 1988 Presidential race, she was hounded for her tears. Absolutely everyone, male, female, feminist, counter-feminist, had their say. See, we just knew women were wimps. Just think what would happen if Hillary cried in public. The entire media would lunge into full tilt dissection mode. The problem is if you're female, you have to feel a little ripped off, as if our tears had somehow been appropriated, snatched by men who are now turning them into an asset. "


But when repukes do it, it's OK:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/essays/fleming_7-10.html

[left15]

43. they do need to be careful.

Even if they have 20 great speeches where they are "firebrands" it only takes one bad speech to ruin a campaign, like Dean's "scream"

[blm]

47. Kerry spoke of doing good DEEDS over pious words in the campaign.

The media would never discuss those aspects of his campaign, just as they refused to discuss his healthcare plans, economic plans, environmental and energy plans to strengthen our national security, closing of corporate tax loopholes, fair wages, etc.......

[politicasista]

113. The media slobbered all over Smirky

And so many people believed it. Go Kerry!:bounce: :yourock:

[quiet.american]

60. Polls. Swing voters. Out-of-touch advisors.

Too much emphasis on polls. Too much worry over the phantom "swing" voters. Not enough "take no prisoners" advisors.

[Dawgs]

25. Sounds like Kerry is turning into the next Gore...

ANGRY as hell for losing to a MORAN!!!

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

48. See my post above...

and what proof do you have that he lost?

And put the blame where it belongs: the real morans are the people who, given the choice, chose Bush over Kerry, if indeed they actually did.

[pazarus]

56. ...except he hasn't grown what i call the "sad beard"

At least he had the Senate to go back to. He's still a fighter, and his quotes are some of the best. Always thoughtful, always a step above the moronic propaganda we et from current leadership. I wish I could support him as president for 2008, but I'll just have to support him in his other campaigns.

[ihaveaquestion]

36. Sign the petition to Repub Senators

at John Kerry's website - http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/usatoday.php/

[sendero]

44. It's really too bad..

.... I truly think that if Kerry had the courage to speak like this last year, he would have won by a margin too large to steal.

But, credit where credit is due, Kerry deserves a lot of credit for coming out and saying what needed to be said.

He is one of a handful with the courage to do so at any time.

[dandrhesse]

73. Look at the 2004 election results threads he did win by a margin too large

to steal but the voting tabulation didn't come up with that answer. Case in point,
this story telling about the record crowds.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=148-08022004

[Griffy]

104. EXACTLY.. why do you think WE KNOW... huge swings in paperless areas!..

leaving behind blatant statistical evidence! but with the media unwilling to look into this, and the congress' obvious bias to (or fear of...) bush. Given the criminal nature of bush's other activities from lying into war to fake SS crisis to steal even more money from us... I find the flipping of a few million votes to be the simpler of the criminal activities they have done... but this is the one thing that fools (with the help of the media..) the masses to think this is actually our "elected" leader... he NEVER has been.. NEVER will!

need help understanding ... this will help clear up alittle on how the election theft can be totally true and yet not noticed..

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=20738&mode=nested&order=0

[dandrhesse]

147. also the job approval polls! 43% gee do you think something is amiss?

Do you read Conyers blog page? I read what he had to say about the "Election reform Commission" and felt so validated. I caught the hearings on C-SPAN and experienced the same surreal "staged" feeling I had when I saw the RNC broadcast. I thought what a bunch of shills. Jimmy Carter made some biting comments and shrewd observations. I think the Committee may be surprised by the "conclusions" Carter ends up drawing based on the "evidence" that is presented.

[oneighty]

45. Just a thought

If both major political parties in the good old U.S. of A. are using the Christian bible for political guidance and so on and so forth where does that leave the rest of us?

180

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

52. I dont really feel threatened...

just because someone quotes from the(ir) scriptures. It is ok to invoke that which moves you the most, if indeed it does -- it need not necessarily be perceived to be threatening -- and I speak as a part of a miniscule minority in this country: agnostic, and a Hindu by birth.

The problem comes from people who use religion as a wedge to separate those that believe (in their own version of God) and those that dont. As with obscenity, it is quite easy to see who is being sincere and who isn't: watch if there is follow-through. How many of the right wing nut jobs actually (a) attend church or (b) do any good deeds, in a real and meaningful fashion?

So, the problem is not in the invoking; it is the motivation behind it. And I am saying this fully conscious of the subjectivity of evaluation and the slippery slope problem...

[oneighty]

57. But is a slippery slope

When all of our elected leaders by mouth truthful or not invoke the powers of their 'One God' to rule us all.

Sort of like the 'Lord of the Rings'. One God to rule us all.

How many of the right wing nut jobs actually attend a church? I am sure if there is a camera there they will be smiling with unopened bible in hand. Other than that probably not.

180

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

70. The slippery slope is a very real problem in the long run.

In the short run though, Dems have to engage the conversation and call the wing nuts on their feigned piety, because these irresponsibles have made it a high-visibility issue totally for opportunistic reasons -- we have to now separate the wheat from the chaff before we can turn down the volume. The rest of us who are uncomfortable about this whole business of "whose Godliness is better" discussion have to either grin and bear it or chip in usefully -- we really have no other option. The decent Democratic instinct to leave well enough alone has not worked...

[GirlinContempt]

105. About 34 AD?

[AlmightyTallest]

155. Clone High!

Man I loved that show.

[indepat]

51. Only Repukes have a pipeline to the deity giving them insight to what God

wants, how partisan politics in one nation of the world comprising 5%-6% of its population must be conducted, all in his glory and in his name.

[Gregorian]

53. Republicans like to play God

They like to limit our choices by playing God. In fact, it's exactly what God does not want us to do. It is the essence of evil to limit other beings.


That is what I woke up to last night.

[earth mom]

61. Whoo Hoo! Glad to hear it! Go Kerry, Go Kerry, Go Kerry!

Sounds like Kerry is calling the lying rethug bastards on their bullshit! And given the posts upthread, was probably doing the same thing all through his campaign though we all never heard about it on the news because the Corporate media wouldn't allow it. :grr: :grr: :grr:

[sabra]

64. Prez Kerry rocks!

[Mr_Spock]

65. You tell 'em John - my thoughts exactly!

Go get 'em Johnny boy!!

[dhinojosa]

67. He's been getting fucking tough lately, what's going on?

I guess he was told while campaigning to be nice to people. I like this Kerry a lot!!!!

[BlueIris]

94. Some would say it's just a show, but I honestly think

Kerry has recently found out more than he knew during the campaign even about the neo-cons' plan for our future and is freaked. That throw-down with Reid about the Dems STILL not doing enough to fight Bush didn't sound like posturing to me. I think he wants to get as much into the limelight now as he can--as someone who tried to stop them, in case, you know, something catastrophic happens in between now and say, the midterms, to make people forget there was opposition. Not trying to scare anyone, just being realistic.

[seeker4ever]

69. Gee whiz, is that a woody I see there Johnny?

Where the fuck was it while you were campaigning!

[glitch]

74. To all the people wondering where the fire was during the campaign

You should've been watching c-span. They showed a lot of his speeches in full, and they were remarkable.

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

116. Thanks :-)

for saying succinctly what I took 2000 lines to say ;-)

[glitch]

118. You keep up the great work !

but it's a never-ending job. I spent years correcting the corporate-media-fed on Gore. Where was he this where was he that?
But, once you watch a few senate sessions or speeches or press conferences on c-span and then see how the corporate media reports them, you wise up pretty quick.

[Just a guy_withaVOTE]

75. fundies POV

It might be worthwhile to think of the religionists as just one more special interest group.

That being said, is there a valid reason why this special interest should not be be to affect the political process? We don't exclude any other special interest groups.

[mahina]

110. As a Christian myself I can tell you I am disgusted with the way

the "Christian" Coalition an the religious right have prostituted thier religion for personal and political advancement, and I am not alone. I understand exactly what Kerry is saying. They are not really Christian at all. Their beliefs are old testament all the way.

Blessed are the peacekeepers.

Of course they have a right to participate but this recent Kabuki theater is perfect evidence that they are hypocrits and liars and not Christians at all if judged by thier deeds. They certainly don't have the right to break all the rules. (They=BushCo. and Jesus Inc.) And they are anything BUT conservative in truth, they are squandering our nation's wealth and wasting our young people for MONEY.

Oh and welcome to DU.

[CAcyclist]

125. Oh, really?

Well, it sure seems to me that we are excluding all the Democrats, all the poor, all the homosexuals in this Congress.

I'm an atheist. I'll worry about your stupid religionists being "excluded"" when atheists are considered human beings by the right.

[understandinglife]

81. The day we begin to uphold the Constitution. MNA May 2 2005

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN........)

[WHAT]

84. GOOD for him...

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Rainscents]

85. Remember... no matter how great Democrat cadidate was during

election... Corporate meida will haved kill it. Most American people don't watch C_SPAN to get their news... they rely on corporate media for evening news.

Don't you all remember??? How CNN, MSNBC, CNBS and FOX all cut short or cut him off on Kerry speech and his media Q and A sessions?

[burythehatchet]

86. I love kerry (and Gore) but

its amazing that after an election is stolen, how quickly the democratic victim of the theft becomes a populist.

[pacalo]

88. Excellent!

[i miss america]

98. Nice sig! Mind if I steal it?

[pacalo]

149. I'd be honored...

after all, I believe my picture came from you. ;)

[hopein08]

90. I take back all bad things I've said about Kerry...

that is absolutely awesome. Although if it gets picked up by the MSM, he's going to get flamed by freepers.

[BlueIris]

95. Aw. n/t

[politicasista]

112. The MSM is mean

:scared:

[AlmightyTallest]

156. They'll flame anyway

They don't need much provocation.

[BlueIris]

91. Thank you, Senator K. SANITY PLEASE, GOP.

Not that I expect a return to it anytime soon.

[i miss america]

99. Wonderful! Thank you Senator Kerry

:applause:

[JI7]

106. this is so stupid

Kerry said in early 2004 when asked about whether God is on America's side. and he answered that he doesn't know and it doesn't really matter and that we need less of this God or Religion stuff in politics.

he isn't saying anything different now .

for those paying attention Drudge used what Kerry said to claim that Kerry said God is not on America's side. and right wingers distorted it and spread it in their churches also.

[d_b]

107. Kick 'em in the ass, Senator.

[Arkana]

111. He's absolutely right, and it's about time someone said it.

[demo dutch]

115. Right! Especially since the * family is telling the head of his church

what to do!

[Zhade]

119. Nice!

:thumbsup:

[Dr Fate]

122. Kerry is right-- I hope he repeats this loud and often.

Thanks for speaking the truth John!

[Democat]

126. If more Democrats started talking like that, we would be back on the path

to taking this country back.

When will Democrats learn to screw constultants and focus groups and start kicking right wing ass?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

128. you can see the benefits of having Dean as chairman already

i can just picture the meeting he had with all of them behind closed doors, calling them all pussies and telling them they should be ashamed of themselves. looks like Dean is really starting to have a positive effect on the comprehensive change in language and tone that is fundamental to kicking the shit out of these stupid fascists.

Having a doctor be chairman is perfect, because doctors understand how to diagnose problems and immediately move on to a solution with no hesitation.

[WildEyedLiberal]

148. You have to be kidding me

Are you being facetious?

DEAN is not the reason Kerry said what he said. I am perfectly willing to give credit where credit is due, and when Dean does something praiseworthy, I'll praise him. But for you to suggest that Dean is responsible for all the good things that individual Democrats are doing now is beyond ridiculous.

By that logic, is Dean also responsible for the not-so-good things Dems have done recently? Like the masses of Dems who voted for Condoleeza and the bankruptcy bill? I suppose since everything that happens in our party can now be traced directly back to Dean, he bears all the blame for those failings.

:eyes: Seriously, Dean's a decent guy, and I think he'll do well, but that borders on idol-worship.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

170. i don't think it's just Dean

but I do think that Dean inspired confidence.

I never said that Dean was responsible for all good things Democrats are doing. That's the equivalent of me telling you you are claiming Dean has done nothing good, which would be a complete mischaracterization of your fucking statement.

get a grip, i'm not worshipping Dean. I will add though that John K. didn't street-fight like this during the big opportunity he had to turn this country around.

Go ahead and write me back now, and be sure to characterize my opinion as now hating John Kerry kay?

[Dr Fate]

154. BULLS EYE- straight, blunt, plain talking is all we need.

I agree with you 100% and join you in promoting this obvious idea.

We dont need to read a book by a fancy-pants Berkeley Professor, we just need to talk to people like we do at the water cooler or in the grocery line.

Kerry did good today- the majority of Americans relate to what he just said.

[ynot]

130. Radical for Jesus

The whole notion that we have allowed the republican party and their immoral supporters to take God as their own angers me. I am tired of people thinking that God is only on the side of the conservatives. If Jesus was among us today he would be detained (not arrested), interrogated (not tortured),brain washed (no crown of thorns this time?), deprived of His right to counsel and to the support of His family and friends (not scorned, mocked or beaten), and ultimately killed and placed in an unmarked tomb (not a borrowed tomb this time), and all sightings of His resurrection would be quashed or spun in such a way that the truth would certainly not be told (not lied upon this time). Oh, I am sorry, that sounds like the Crucifixion all over again? The Man who threw the evildoers out of the temple would throw Bush, the conservatives, the religious right (modern day pharisees) and that party out on their heads. He healed the sick. They want to deprive the poorest of the poor adequate medical care. He taught us to care for the widows and orphans. They want to take away basic subsistence from our experienced members of the population and deprive our children of a sound public education. They talk good game but their words will not save them. I am a CHRISTIAN and I am also blessed to be on the side of God in my thinking and actions. As my Mother used to say when we were small, God don't like ugly. They put the ug in ugly and the Lord does not like them and the harm they are doing to our country and the world. The forerunner of the anti-christ is among us. See him and pray for him but at the same time do what you can with what you have to effect a change and to stand up to these nuts. Philippians 4:1, . . . "so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved." Let us not allow them to try and coop the Lord as there reason for living. Hitler did the same and the silence of good people conspired in the deaths of millions.

[Rainscents]

143. AMEN!

[seito]

135. Outstanding

:thumbsup: I hope the freepers do make a stink about it. My bet is that this will never be covered by the corporate media. Kerry has spoken truth that the American people will connect with. We do not need corrupt politicians telling US what God's will is.

[AuntiBush]

141. I'm sick and tired of that bunch, too! You go Prez Kerry!

I can dream... man, what is wrong w/the idiots that did not vote for this man.

Now, come on Dem's - gather-up those spines and stand up for us. Rally us on. Show us you're fearless and if so, I think we'll not be so timid and start walking towards, well, you know.

:thumbsup: Great post!

[Vektor]

145. Well said, Senator!

It's about times someone puts it in those terms. HELL YES. You go, Kerry.

[YvonneCa]

146. Thank God, President Kerry is still out there fighting...

...for us. After the election, I didn't know whether it bothered me more that there was fraud in the election, or that if the results were legit, so many of my American neighbors had voted for bush. I just couldn't understand the 'moral values' explanation. The fact that Kerry is speaking out so forcefully now on the subject does my heart good.:-) It seems that he is positioning himself perfectly on all these issues. I can't wait to see if he eventually stands up to election fraud.:D

[LatePeriduct]

163. President Kerry will kick their torts to the curve.....

Here is Senator Frist and the False President Elect's moral values:

http://www.yuricareport.com

Incredible, I have never seen something so amazing in all this time!

And here comes Tom Delay to join the fun man!
http://houseofscandal.org

IMPEACH DELAY, AND THEN TAKE DOWN THE LEADERS...

[yorkiemommie1]

150. who are they to tell us what god wants??

pharisees!

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pinboy]

158. Welcome to DU, but...

Your post is weak and without any support. Read the comments on the thread, and see if you want to respond with something substantive.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

160. Yes, good bye!

:hi:

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LatePeriduct]

167. kick

[Strawman]

168. the politics of annoyance might be a good strategy

for years the Republicans have branded Democrats as a bunch of pointy headed, know it all, politically correct pains in the asses and they were pretty successful at convincing people who don't pay a whole lot of attention either that if the Democrats were in power they would be subjedcted to a never-ending litany of demands from special interest groups bitching about this or that. To their credit as manipulators (which is really not a compliment) they made alot of people think "Jesus Christ those liberals are annoying."

well if those people thought that was bad, lets see how much they like having to listen to these the irritating holier-than-thou, half-crazed fundie types much longer. I think most Americans think these people are a big fat pain in the ass and they're sick of being constantly barraged with their nutty ass ideas and constant sermonizing and obsession with controlling people's personal lives that are none of their goddamn business. Kerry is right on the mark to articulate that sentiment. I think 75% of Americans would say "I agree with that guy, enough already."

[Gman]

169. It dawned on me today what may be going on here...

Catholics, like Kerry, believe that good work must be done to go to heaven. Protestants believe otherwise. If this difference is pushed, it could lead to a huge fight between Catholics and Protestants. The need for good works could become a huge wedge issue.