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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 05:58 AM
Original message
Helicopter downed in Iraq, nine dead - US sources
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 06:33 AM by Bluebear
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An MI-8 commercial helicopter was shot down in Iraq on Thursday and all nine people aboard are believed to have been killed, U.S. military sources said.

The aircraft was travelling just north of the capital when it was hit, possibly by a rocket-propelled grenade, a source said. Reuters Television received footage of an aircraft that had been shot down in the area and which was still on fire.

The sources said three crew and six passengers, all civilians, were on board the helicopter when it was hit. Their nationalities were not known.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BAK139841.htm
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. It was a commercial helicopter - contractors, I assume...
:(
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks CH
I thought that is what they said. Horrible for the families :(
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well, bush is relieved over that one
Now he doesn't have to count those bodies. :(

I'm really so incredibly sorry for all of the families. Our friend's son just got back from Iraq last week, so it means that MY friends aren't the ones suffering... just someone ELSE's friends are. :cry:
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I know what you mean
That's the whole point isn't it. As long as it happens to people you don't know then it's just something written down. But they all have family and loved ones and it's not worth it. It's unnecessary suffering we inflict upon ourself.

Glad to hear that he got home. Keep him there or get him to somewhere safe.
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Gyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Mercenaries, I'm assuming you mean.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. That's it - I believe it's been confirmed that they're Blackwater...
...employees.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. your link is not working....
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 06:27 AM by leftchick
it goes to financial news.

edit: found the link...

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BAK139841.htm

Helicopter downed in Iraq, nine dead - U.S. sources
21 Apr 2005 11:15:17 GMT


BAGHDAD, April 21 (Reuters) - An Mi-8 commercial helicopter was shot down in Iraq on Thursday and all nine people aboard are believed to have been killed, U.S. military sources said.

The Russian-built aircraft was flying just north of Baghdad when it was hit, possibly by a rocket-propelled grenade, one source said. Reuters Television received footage of a helicopter that had been shot down in the area and which was still on fire.

The military sources said three crew and six passengers, all civilians, were on board. Their nationalities were not known, although it was believed that the crew may have been Bulgarian.


<snip>
"It was a contract aircraft that was not being used by the military, although the Mi-8 is also a military helicopter," the source in Iraq said.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Thank you kindly :)
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. my pleasure! ;)
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 07:18 AM by leftchick
note it was brought down by a grenade?!? Good lord, when will anyone notice that Iraq is FUBAR?
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. They were vulnerable to being brought down by a grenade....
...because there were no US troops on board.

If there had been US troops on board, they would have been immune to grenades and other ground fire, and would only have been vulnerable to mechanical problems. Or the weather. Or pilot error. Or a large swarm of hostile bees. But definitely not shot down.



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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. i don't know what to say -- this makes me sooo angry.
america has lost it's mind -- that it can keep this cretin in power and let this happen time and again.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. link:
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. Spiralling out of control
No pun intended. Spring is here and things are getting HOT. x(
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Indeed, why does violence always increase during spring?
And full moon as well.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. the violence increases as long as the US is there.
And it knows no seasons...

Military Fatalities: By Month
Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
4-2005 29 0 0 29 1.38 21
3-2005 36 1 3 40 1.29 31
2-2005 58 0 2 60 2.14 28
1-2005 107 10 10 127 4.1 31
12-2004 72 2 3 77 2.48 31
11-2004 137 4 0 141 4.7 30
10-2004 63 2 2 67 2.16 31
9-2004 80 3 4 87 2.9 30
8-2004 66 4 5 75 2.42 31
7-2004 54 1 3 58 1.87 31
6-2004 42 1 7 50 1.67 30
5-2004 80 0 4 84 2.71 31
4-2004 135 0 5 140 4.67 30
3-2004 52 0 0 52 1.68 31
2-2004 20 1 2 23 0.79 29
1-2004 47 5 0 52 1.68 31
12-2003 40 0 8 48 1.55 31
11-2003 82 1 27 110 3.67 30
10-2003 44 1 2 47 1.52 31
9-2003 31 1 1 33 1.1 30
8-2003 35 6 2 43 1.39 31
7-2003 47 1 0 48 1.55 31
6-2003 30 6 0 36 1.2 30
5-2003 37 4 0 41 1.32 31
4-2003 74 6 0 80 2.67 30
3-2003 65 27 0 92 7.67 12
Total 1563 87 90 1740 2.28 764

http://icasualties.org/oif/
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Here is my 23 year old shipping out to Iraq in July



These three will never be the same if something happens to him





And neither will I.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. oh Binka....
words fail me. :hug:
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Thanks Left It Has Been A Hard Year For Us
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 08:06 AM by Binka
I almost had a nervous breakdown in November but being mommy to a three year old sort of put the brakes on that I had to take care of her. My older son and daughter are very afraid and it has affected them deeply.

I don't know what I'm going to do once he ships over. But I can guarantee you this if anything happens to my son I am sticking my face in front of any and every camera and I will be hound Bush and his gang of thieves. I will never go quietly if my child is hurt for their profit.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. I will pray nothing happens to him...
You have a beautiful family and you will find strength in each other, I promise!

peace,
lc
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I hope you get him back safe. nt
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. My thoughts and prayers are with you
and your family. If only I could believe that your son were being well served by this adminstration. We will keep working and agitating to keep them as well protected as possible and to bring them home sooner, rather than later.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Let's hope he'll return safe and without any harm
Don't know what to say after seeing your granddaughter. She is gorgeous. She needs the best father in the world. Let's hope that her dad will return soon.

Good luck and lots of strength for this difficult period.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Um Err Um That Is My Daughter I Had A Late Age Pregnancy
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 08:14 AM by Binka
She and my oldest are 20 years apart. Not bad for an "OLD" Lady. : :P:

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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Sorry. I know I shouldn't jump to conclusion. Mea culpa...
Get her brother home safe, though. That girl needs all the love in the world growing up and it sounds like you have an incredible family.

Lots of love :loveya:
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. My heart goes out to you
Our thoughts and prayers will be with you until he returns safely home.

:hug:
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montana_hazeleyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
58. You have my
thoughts and prayers for the safety of your son and happiness of your lovely family.
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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
74. you can say that again
I hope you never find out what its like.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. Photo... There isn't much left


A video grab shows the wreckage of a Russian-built commercial helicopter in Baghdad, April 21, 2005. A Russian-built commercial helicopter was shot down north of Baghdad on Thursday and all nine people aboard were believed to have been killed, U.S. military sources said. REUTERS/Reuters TV
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. my god...it's not much more than dust
:(
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
27. CNN reporting 3 Bulgarian crew and 6 Americans all Blackwater Sec
and keep saying over and over...Commercial Airline. :eyes:
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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. look at yahoo's article
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 10:07 AM by tinanator
they get nowhere near declaring the nationality of the 6 dead Americans, as if that was some sort of mystery while 3 Bulgarians was common knowledge. Media is a weapon, pointed at all of our heads.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Six Americans among 9 dead in Iraq copter crash
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Six Americans were among nine people killed when a commercial helicopter went down north of the Iraqi capital Thursday, a U.S. Embassy official in Baghdad said.

Does seem they are blackwater "contractors".

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/04/21/iraq.main/ind...
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Blackwater? *bites tongue*
I hate mercenaries. US needs anti-mercenary laws.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
59. I'll second that!
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
31. I'm surprised at the candor of this article.
Normally, the Pentagon does not release information about hostile actions bringing down heli's. They usually say "mechanical failure", or "unknown causes", or "cause is still being investigated".

I believe they do not want Americans knowing that the Iraqis are taking down heli's worth around $30 million apiece (correct? or was it $3 million). Either way, it doesn't look good.

We have lost A LOT of heli's. I'm seriously considering putting together some kind of a statistical report for the DU about it. I know several people have posted that the majority of these downings have been enemy fire.

What can we assume from this? That Russia is helping the Iraqis, or someone else assisting them? Either way, the moment a US troop sets foot in a heli, he's gambling with his life.
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. it was a Russian-made helicopter
probably owned by the Bulgarian contingent in Iraq.
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. I noticed that ,too
Also I was surprised that they admitted the bit about using helicopters because the roads aren't safe.Usually that sort of thing is omitted,after all,it's safer there now right?Mission accomplished?Freedom is on the march? :patriot:
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
32. Six Americans Die in Iraq Chopper
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/home/main100.shtml


The crew of three Bulgarians were also killed north of Baghdad when missile fire downed the civilian helicopter under contract to the Defense Department. Many Americans are using helicopters in Iraq because it's safer than driving. More...
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Blackwater employees are learning that profiting from oppression
carries some risks
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. yeah, real safe
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 10:41 AM by leftchick


A video grab shows the wreckage of a Russian-built commercial helicopter in Baghdad, April 21, 2005. The helicopter was shot down north of Baghdad on Thursday and all nine people aboard were believed to have been killed, U.S. military sources said. The attack, believed to be the first downing of a civilian aircraft in Iraq, comes amid a surge in guerrilla violence and puts further pressure on leaders struggling to form a government nearly three months after elections. Photo by Reuters (Handout)
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Condolences to their families.
No one is safe in Iraq.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Interesting how this civilian chopper was shot down, but when any
military helicopters that go down it's because of 'engine failure' or 'mechanical difficulties'.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
39. Bush cares about Blackwater mercenaries
Based on the earlier Fallujah killings of Blackwater mercenaries, Bush will stop at nothing to avenge Blackwater Inc. These are people he actually cares about, a very select group (the Blackwater stockholders, I mean). This could cut into profit margins.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. As the chopper burned it turned into a Fallujan Barbecue
No I won't post the Barbecue photo !!!!!
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
40. the more successful we are , the more desperate the 'insurgents' become
when's america gon' wake up?
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
41.  Helicopter 'downed' near Baghdad (BBC News)
Helicopter 'downed' near Baghdad

Thursday, 21 April, 2005, 17:16 GMT 18:16 UK

A commercial helicopter has crashed about 20km (12 miles) north of Baghdad, killing all 11 people on board. The Bulgarian defence ministry said the Russian-built MI-8 aircraft had been brought down by a missile attack.

Those who died were six US security contractors, three Bulgarian crew members and two guards - who were reportedly from the Philippines. Insurgents have shot down several US military helicopters since the US-led invasion of Iraq.

The helicopter was owned by a Bulgarian company, Heli Air, and chartered by SkyLink, a North American company. SkyLink said it had been flying to Tikrit, north of Baghdad. TV footage showed the burning wreckage of the aircraft in a barren area.

(more at link above)

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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. More mercenaries BITE the Dust
No tears shed for $2000.00 a day mercenaries.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. How compassionate of you.
Most of these guys left the military to work these jobs because they pay a lot better and, either way, they're in Iraq. Can't say I blame them. It's not the military's fault they've been sent to die in the desert for no damn reason.
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aprillcm Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. The Military Yes.
Mercs have the choice they made the choice and are there by choice our military however is just following orders! How do you think our military men and women feel knowing that people over there are doing essentially the same job, for 100 times the pay our service people are getting?? This is wrong no matter how you look at it!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Not to mention that most of these mercenaries are War Criminals
Who kill indiscriminately and are bound by only THE RULE OF THE JUNGLE.

Ie: The STRONG MAKE UP THEIR OWN RULES.

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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
68. Hell, I've read a few posts on AR15.com where mercs almost brag
About it! They don't specifically say they kill civilians, but a lot of times you'll get posts where they brag they "sprayed off a few hundred rounds" in the middle of the night after getting shot at from a nearby building, or after a roadside bomb explodes. Of course, they can't see exactly WHICH building the fire came from, so they spray indiscriminately.

In the middle of the night.

In residential Iraqi neighborhoods.

And they think this is fun as hell.

It's like they've never heard of stories of stray bullets killing children in US ghettos. And then they wonder why the local Iraqis don't like them....
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #68
76. I have read two great articles about these guys...
Edited on Fri Apr-22-05 04:40 AM by leftchick
and they are all men, not a woman among them which tells you something about their work. The articles were in RollingStone and another in MotherJones. They both touched on the facts that the majority are ex-military Or military wannabes who happen to be very good with automatic weapons. They are not in it for patriotism, they are in it for 2 things, the US Tax $$$ and the enjoyment of killing period.

They drive around Baghdad, this was before it became hell on earth, with their huge weapons sticking out the windows of their SUVs frightening and intimidating every person in their paths. No wonder they have become targets.



I can only imagine the resentment towards these thugs from our Soldiers. They are paid at least three times as much for the same job, with better equipment and no accountability for their actions.
They also made the choice to play Rambo.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. make up your mind
"Most of these guys left the military to work these jobs because they pay a lot better"

vs.

"It's not the military's fault they've been sent to die in the desert for no damn reason"

Don't confuse the two issues in an attempt to wrap mercenaries in some sort of patriotic dispensation from individual responsibility.

Security contractors are hired guns, paid killers, sent to put down Iraqis who continue to resist our invasion and occupation of their land.

It certainly is our fault that our soldiers are killing Iraqis. Iraq did nothing to warrant the hell we have visited upon them. We, our republic, such as it is, chose this course of action and we are responsible for what we have done and what we continue to do.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Look at it this way --
You know you are going to Iraq. This is a given. Now you can either a) get paid a little for it. or b) get paid a lot for it. What do you do?

Moreover, what job do you expect a Navy SEAL to take once he's out of Spec Ops? Gardener?

At the end of the day, the only reason these people are over there is because the Bush administration made it possible. I don't blame them for being there at all. It's more their choice than it would be if they were still contracted with the armed forces, but it's still not a can of worms they opened up. It's Bush and his people who did this.

And to gloat over their deaths by posthumously labeling them as "war criminals" even when you have no idea who they were or what they did is ignorant at best and reprehensible at worst. You want to call someone a war criminal, look in the White House. At least you know who's sitting there.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. One of the major flaws with your sympathies (with the Ex-SEAL's)
and Ex-Special Opps people is, WE (the U.S. Tax Payers) are paying something like 1/2 million Dollars to train these Special Opps troops who, once their contract with the U.S. Government runs out, they turn around and start or join a group of "Private Contractors."

Not only are these guys stealing from the Iraqi People (by getting these $500,000-$1,000,000.00 a year jobs), but now the Navy or Army, etc., has to now spend ANOTHER 1/2 Million dollars to replace these "Private Contractors."
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. All they can do is kill for hire.
Gee that is too bad. I'm so sorry that the only thing an ex navy seal is good for (in your opinion) is either weeding gardens or killing Iraqis. That, my friend is no excuse.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. If you are out of the military, you don't have to go to Iraq.
It is that simple. A Navy SEAL can go back to college and learn some other skill. He (or she in a small number of cases) is free to take any job they are qualified for, including gardener. Nobody is compelled by money to take a particular job, especially if it is morally reprehensible.
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catastrophicsuccess Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Yea but
riding 70 year-old Iraqi women around like a donkey isn't really a marketable skill.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Fortunately not, although in Bush world you never know.
Careers of the future may be very odd, indeed, if the neo-cons have their way.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. hence it is integral for us sane people to never let them have their way
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 05:54 PM by NuttyFluffers
mercenaries is one of the worst of professions. sponsored and paid criminality, pure and simple. even machiavelli had nothing but contempt for this 'profession' and wisely advised any leader that one uses mercenaries at your own risk and at the detriment of everything your legitimate forces fought so hard for.

my compassion stops at mercenaries and other great evils of the world. i am human, not god, and i do not take kindly to those who passive-aggressively demand from me more than i can possibly give.

ps: thanks for your comments, good to hear a sane and sarcastic voice ;) tones down the frothing at my mouth
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #62
72. Thanks, we sane people have to stick together.
On the subject of mercenaries, I thought the Hessians hired by King George were especially despised by the colonists during the American War of Independence. So, the extreme dislike of mercenaries by Iraqis ought to be understandable to most Americans.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. "make up your mind"? did you realize, you are asking 3 different...
...people to make up ONE mind?

You need to be more careful or you're going to get yourself into
"a world of Sh*t," as they say in the military.

Fair warning, folks here, even when making cynical remarks, are VERY pissed-off about this Iraq situation. That goes double for our Vets here, and we have a lot of them. :hippie:
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. I responded to one post that
came from one person, which single person contains one mind, which mind was associated with these contradictory statements about mercs: "Most of these guys left the military " and "its not the military's fault they've been sent to die in the desert".

To be fair, the other way to interpret SteppingRazor's post was that he was attempting via a rhetorical dodge to attack comments against mercenaries by claiming that they are covered by the same 'under orders' dispensation we give our soldiers. Sorry. They aren't covered, they don't get the dispensation.

Which three guys is SteppingRazor?

And you know what: screw the implied attempts at censorship. I'll speak my mind on what we are doing in Iraq and I don't care who listens or how upset they get with me, or their vet status. If I get bounced so be it, too bad for DU.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. You won't be bounced
I'm a Vet and I agree with you






Our little confrontation at Nixon's convention Miami Beach 1972

That's Ron Kovic in the Chair on the right !!!!
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
65. Sorry, my confusion, I thought you where mixing several posts into...
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 07:24 PM by Up2Late
one reply. It wasn't an "...implied attempt(s) at censorship...", I was just trying to keep a "newbie" out a firestorm of angry replys.

Excuse my warning, you're on your own.

Good luck.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
54. Let me ask this delicate question...
If mercenaries did *jobs* that the Admin. didn't want regular Army to do, would the same Admin. want these mercenaries home alive to tell tales?

:shrug:
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CarinKaryn Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Good Question!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
63. Deleted message
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. I heard their was a video, where did you see it? Not that I want to...
...see it, but, could you tell which country he was from? Was he one of the pilots?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
catastrophicsuccess Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. here is the video if you want to see it
Edited on Thu Apr-21-05 07:47 PM by catastrophicsuccess
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Link says its restricted
Looks like they won't let it be seen due to graphic nature.

Does anyone have another link to this? Thanks.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. I don't know if it's on here or not, and I don't read Arabic, but you...
...might poke around and see if you can find a search window and see if it's on here. Is a fairly good website, I think it's in Egypt.

I've poked around and found some of the e-mail addresses are in English on the message board.

You might even try posting there and see if anyone responds in English, I haven't tried that yet.

<http://www.ertu.org />
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Nevermind
It didn't want to download from my work computer, but does fine from home.

Jesus, you weren't kidding about it being graphic!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-05 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
71. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. Perhaps, but then

These guys are not exactly sweethearts....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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ausiedownunderground Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
78. This helo was targeted because important Americans were on board!
Arab media and some OZ independent news sources are saying this helo was specifically targeted. It had on board some very important Americans. These were not Blackwater people!! The Americans thought they could get away with transporting themselves in a Russian helo!! The guerilla's don't shoot Russian helo's down without a reason! They had been tipped off!! They even brought a camera crew to film it! Including the slaughter of the only survivor. I have been told by an extremely reliable source that the guerilla's have taken the "gloves off". They have had enough of American "atrocities" and are prepared to slaughter Americans in cold blood as viciously and violently as possible. The young lad heading out to Iraq in July, is about to enter a world he never dreamed about. Please prepare him properly. No freedom and democracy shit! He's about to come face to face with men and women who hate him and want to kill him! I know this sounds terrible, but from my sources who have fought in Iraq and survived this is "no picnic"!!!! It is getting worse!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. There is indeed a discrepency in the number dead....
first six then nine, now eleven. The newest article says the mercs were protecting diplomats! Hmmm, you may be on to something there.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Everyone here that is wondering what's going now (our News Sucks)
should check out the article I posted at this link:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... >

It's written by a Democratic U.S. Congressman, who just returned from a fact finding trip to Iraq.
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